• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 26 years!

    Join tens of thousands of other owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered!
  • TUG is starting a new contest that will award $50 to the best review submitted for the month!

    Read more here
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $14,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $14 Million dollars
  • Please check out the review contest thread here vote for the best review and cast your vote for the best review for Feb 2020! winner gets a $50 gift card!
  • We have compiled all the individual CV threads into a single reference thread here for easy access as they are spread out all over the forum: Coronavirus Info
  • Follow the TUG Member Banner as it travels the world on vacation with Timeshare owners! Also sign up to get the banner sent to you so you can submit a photo of your vacation with the banner to share with TUG! Banner Thread
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free! Join tens of thousands of other owners who get this every week! Latest resort reviews and the most important topics discussed by owners during the week!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    Read more Here
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

MVC Owner Update for Sheraton Owner

teddyo333

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Messages
120
Reaction score
44
Points
138
Location
Upstate NY
Resorts Owned
Vistana:
Westin Kierland
WKORV - OV
Desert Oasis (x5)
Vistana Villages - Bella
Vistana Villages - Key West
Sheraton Broadway Plantation
Marriott:
Marriott's Sunset Pointe
My wife and I just attended a Owner update at the Marriott Lakeshore Reserve and was proposed the following:

Option 1
2000 Points
Trade in (1) Marriott SunSet Pointe (Not enrolled - Purchased resale for $600 post 2010)
Total Cost Before Trade-In: $28520
-$4320 (SunSet Pointe Trade-In)
-$799 (Encore Package Purchased for Feb 2020)
$23401 (New Money and will include 2000 DP as well as Chairman's Club Status/Lifetime Titanium Status for Marriott Rewards)

Option 2
1000 Points
Total Cost: $14260
-$799 (Encore Package Purchased for Feb 2020)
$13461 (New Money and will include 1000 DP as well as Chairman's Club Status/Lifetime Titanium Status for Marriott Rewards)

The sale rep told us that there would be a range of points that would be associated with each of our current Sheraton/Westin properties and that would equate to 25K to 35K total points based on the properties we own (point conversion would only occur upon request and would not affect Star Options). This would qualify us for Chairman's status. He also stated that the properties that were even purchased via resale would qualify for this benefit as long as they were purchased prior to the new program being announce in 2020.

We would have been all over this for 1000 points if it were backed up with documentation. The sales rep took our information and stated that he would contact us as soon as the documentation becomes available. This would be a win for Marriott in regards to new money and for property owners for access to new properties. Here's hope there is some truth to this but still happy with what we already have if everything stays the same.
 

CPNY

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2019
Messages
2,676
Reaction score
1,045
Points
238
Resorts Owned
Harborside Resort at Atlantis
SVV - Key West
SVV - Bella
Regal Vista at Massanutten
My wife and I just attended a Owner update at the Marriott Lakeshore Reserve and was proposed the following:

Option 1
2000 Points
Trade in (1) Marriott SunSet Pointe (Not enrolled - Purchased resale for $600 post 2010)
Total Cost Before Trade-In: $28520
-$4320 (SunSet Pointe Trade-In)
-$799 (Encore Package Purchased for Feb 2020)
$23401 (New Money and will include 2000 DP as well as Chairman's Club Status/Lifetime Titanium Status for Marriott Rewards)

Option 2
1000 Points
Total Cost: $14260
-$799 (Encore Package Purchased for Feb 2020)
$13461 (New Money and will include 1000 DP as well as Chairman's Club Status/Lifetime Titanium Status for Marriott Rewards)

The sale rep told us that there would be a range of points that would be associated with each of our current Sheraton/Westin properties and that would equate to 25K to 35K total points based on the properties we own (point conversion would only occur upon request and would not affect Star Options). This would qualify us for Chairman's status. He also stated that the properties that were even purchased via resale would qualify for this benefit as long as they were purchased prior to the new program being announce in 2020.

We would have been all over this for 1000 points if it were backed up with documentation. The sales rep took our information and stated that he would contact us as soon as the documentation becomes available. This would be a win for Marriott in regards to new money and for property owners for access to new properties. Here's hope there is some truth to this but still happy with what we already have if everything stays the same.
I’m assuming this is all based on your current ownerships. I wonder how he came up with the 25-35K DC point figure.
 

SeaDoc

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
297
Reaction score
121
Points
253
Location
Palm Desert, CA
Resorts Owned
CClub: 2 Marriott Newport Coasts-PLAT;
2 Marriott Shadow Ridge Villages-PLAT;
1 Marriott Desert Springs I-Red;
1 Marriott Timber Lodge - Summer-PLAT;
3 StarElite: 2 Westin Lagunamar-PLAT
My wife and I just attended a Owner update at the Marriott Lakeshore Reserve and was proposed the following:

Option 1
2000 Points
Trade in (1) Marriott SunSet Pointe (Not enrolled - Purchased resale for $600 post 2010)
Total Cost Before Trade-In: $28520
-$4320 (SunSet Pointe Trade-In)
-$799 (Encore Package Purchased for Feb 2020)
$23401 (New Money and will include 2000 DP as well as Chairman's Club Status/Lifetime Titanium Status for Marriott Rewards)

Option 2
1000 Points
Total Cost: $14260
-$799 (Encore Package Purchased for Feb 2020)
$13461 (New Money and will include 1000 DP as well as Chairman's Club Status/Lifetime Titanium Status for Marriott Rewards)

The sale rep told us that there would be a range of points that would be associated with each of our current Sheraton/Westin properties and that would equate to 25K to 35K total points based on the properties we own (point conversion would only occur upon request and would not affect Star Options). This would qualify us for Chairman's status. He also stated that the properties that were even purchased via resale would qualify for this benefit as long as they were purchased prior to the new program being announce in 2020.

We would have been all over this for 1000 points if it were backed up with documentation. The sales rep took our information and stated that he would contact us as soon as the documentation becomes available. This would be a win for Marriott in regards to new money and for property owners for access to new properties. Here's hope there is some truth to this but still happy with what we already have if everything stays the same.
Remain skeptical, get in writing!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

JIMinNC

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,584
Reaction score
2,265
Points
449
Location
Marvin, NC (Charlotte suburb)
Resorts Owned
Marriott:
Maui Ocean Club
Waiohai Beach Club
Barony Beach Club
Destination Club Trust
HGVC:
HGVC at Sea World
My wife and I just attended a Owner update at the Marriott Lakeshore Reserve and was proposed the following:

Option 1
2000 Points
Trade in (1) Marriott SunSet Pointe (Not enrolled - Purchased resale for $600 post 2010)
Total Cost Before Trade-In: $28520
-$4320 (SunSet Pointe Trade-In)
-$799 (Encore Package Purchased for Feb 2020)
$23401 (New Money and will include 2000 DP as well as Chairman's Club Status/Lifetime Titanium Status for Marriott Rewards)

Option 2
1000 Points
Total Cost: $14260
-$799 (Encore Package Purchased for Feb 2020)
$13461 (New Money and will include 1000 DP as well as Chairman's Club Status/Lifetime Titanium Status for Marriott Rewards)

The sale rep told us that there would be a range of points that would be associated with each of our current Sheraton/Westin properties and that would equate to 25K to 35K total points based on the properties we own (point conversion would only occur upon request and would not affect Star Options). This would qualify us for Chairman's status. He also stated that the properties that were even purchased via resale would qualify for this benefit as long as they were purchased prior to the new program being announce in 2020.

We would have been all over this for 1000 points if it were backed up with documentation. The sales rep took our information and stated that he would contact us as soon as the documentation becomes available. This would be a win for Marriott in regards to new money and for property owners for access to new properties. Here's hope there is some truth to this but still happy with what we already have if everything stays the same.
Interesting tactic with Option 1. Typically for a 2000 point purchase, MVC has traditionally offered a 15% or more discount off of the list price (in this case $14.26/point). But instead of just offering you the discount they have always offered, they are giving you 15% off in exchange for your Sunset Pointe week. So, you would essentially be giving them your week for free based on their past pricing strategy of offering an at least 15% discount off list to most buyers. If this is their new tactic to reacquire deeded weeks, I'm not impressed.
 

JIMinNC

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,584
Reaction score
2,265
Points
449
Location
Marvin, NC (Charlotte suburb)
Resorts Owned
Marriott:
Maui Ocean Club
Waiohai Beach Club
Barony Beach Club
Destination Club Trust
HGVC:
HGVC at Sea World
I’m assuming this is all based on your current ownerships. I wonder how he came up with the 25-35K DC point figure.
I would be quite surprised if, this far out from program announcement, local sales reps have been informed of any actual conversion values of VSE weeks into the hypothetical new program. Since the OP's weeks are pretty much in places where MVC also has resorts, my suspicion is the sales rep was just using the current values in the MVC system for similar resorts and estimating the potential value of the OP's ownership. That's my guess, at least.
 

teddyo333

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Messages
120
Reaction score
44
Points
138
Location
Upstate NY
Resorts Owned
Vistana:
Westin Kierland
WKORV - OV
Desert Oasis (x5)
Vistana Villages - Bella
Vistana Villages - Key West
Sheraton Broadway Plantation
Marriott:
Marriott's Sunset Pointe
I’m assuming this is all based on your current ownerships. I wonder how he came up with the 25-35K DC point figure.
Yes this is bas e on the existing properties we own. We have 11 properties total. Most in Scottsdale and one in Hawaii
 

CPNY

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2019
Messages
2,676
Reaction score
1,045
Points
238
Resorts Owned
Harborside Resort at Atlantis
SVV - Key West
SVV - Bella
Regal Vista at Massanutten
I would be quite surprised if, this far out from program announcement, local sales reps have been informed of any actual conversion values of VSE weeks into the hypothetical new program. Since the OP's weeks are pretty much in places where MVC also has resorts, my suspicion is the sales rep was just using the current values in the MVC system for similar resorts and estimating the potential value of the OP's ownership. That's my guess, at least.
It makes me laugh that the sales rep “thinks” his current ownerships would be worth 25-35K and he’s trying to sell him 2K more for 30 thousand dollars lol. Is 2K points really going to make a difference adding on to 35K points?! His “lying” approach should have been something like you have to buy into the DC now to possibly have your current VSE weeks worth 35K enrolled.
 

teddyo333

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Messages
120
Reaction score
44
Points
138
Location
Upstate NY
Resorts Owned
Vistana:
Westin Kierland
WKORV - OV
Desert Oasis (x5)
Vistana Villages - Bella
Vistana Villages - Key West
Sheraton Broadway Plantation
Marriott:
Marriott's Sunset Pointe
It makes me laugh that the sales rep “thinks” his current ownerships would be worth 25-35K and he’s trying to sell him 2K more for 30 thousand dollars lol. Is 2K points really going to make a difference adding on to 35K points?! His “lying” approach should have been something like you have to buy into the DC now to possibly have your current VSE weeks worth 35K enrolled.
That is exactly why we asked him for documented proof of the Starwood conversation. This is when the presentation came to an end and he requested our information to send us the documentation when it becomes available. I told him that we do not make deals without documented proof. Short and sweet . He was very professional and seemed confident that we would be talking again in the future. We'll see
 

kds4

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
1,636
Reaction score
303
Points
193
Location
USA
Resorts Owned
Marriott Weeks and DC Points
My wife and I just attended a Owner update at the Marriott Lakeshore Reserve and was proposed the following:

Option 1
2000 Points
Trade in (1) Marriott SunSet Pointe (Not enrolled - Purchased resale for $600 post 2010)
Total Cost Before Trade-In: $28520
-$4320 (SunSet Pointe Trade-In)
-$799 (Encore Package Purchased for Feb 2020)
$23401 (New Money and will include 2000 DP as well as Chairman's Club Status/Lifetime Titanium Status for Marriott Rewards)

Option 2
1000 Points
Total Cost: $14260
-$799 (Encore Package Purchased for Feb 2020)
$13461 (New Money and will include 1000 DP as well as Chairman's Club Status/Lifetime Titanium Status for Marriott Rewards)

The sale rep told us that there would be a range of points that would be associated with each of our current Sheraton/Westin properties and that would equate to 25K to 35K total points based on the properties we own (point conversion would only occur upon request and would not affect Star Options). This would qualify us for Chairman's status. He also stated that the properties that were even purchased via resale would qualify for this benefit as long as they were purchased prior to the new program being announce in 2020.

We would have been all over this for 1000 points if it were backed up with documentation. The sales rep took our information and stated that he would contact us as soon as the documentation becomes available. This would be a win for Marriott in regards to new money and for property owners for access to new properties. Here's hope there is some truth to this but still happy with what we already have if everything stays the same.
This is consistent with information presented to us in July during an owner update (but with more detail than was even discussed with us). Did he give you any indication of when documentation would be forthcoming other than the new program being announced in 2020? What I find interesting is the offer of Chairman's Club with the purchase of 1,000 points. Not knowing your investment in Sheraton/Westin purchases, this sounds like a very cheap way to top-tier status.

Was the offer for you to purchase at your presentation or only a 'feeler' of what may be coming in the future? If you could have purchased then, the documentation would appear in your closing paperwork. If you didn't see the representations there regarding your Sheraton/Westin ownership enrollment and/or Chairman's Club status, you could just not sign.
 

teddyo333

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Messages
120
Reaction score
44
Points
138
Location
Upstate NY
Resorts Owned
Vistana:
Westin Kierland
WKORV - OV
Desert Oasis (x5)
Vistana Villages - Bella
Vistana Villages - Key West
Sheraton Broadway Plantation
Marriott:
Marriott's Sunset Pointe
This is consistent with information presented to us in July during an owner update (but with more detail than was even discussed with us). Did he give you any indication of when documentation would be forthcoming other than the new program being announced in 2020? What I find interesting is the offer of Chairman's Club with the purchase of 1,000 points. Not knowing your investment in Sheraton/Westin purchases, this sounds like a very cheap way to top-tier status.

Was the offer for you to purchase at your presentation or only a 'feeler' of what may be coming in the future? If you could have purchased then, the documentation would appear in your closing paperwork. If you didn't see the representations there regarding your Sheraton/Westin ownership enrollment and/or Chairman's Club status, you could just not sign.
He just stated that it was coming in 2020 and he could not supply us with any documentation. He gave the impression that the documentation was coming but he could not make it a guarantee in order for is to sign the contract. We are in no hurry. I would rather wait until something is officially announced by Marriott.
 

kds4

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
1,636
Reaction score
303
Points
193
Location
USA
Resorts Owned
Marriott Weeks and DC Points
He just stated that it was coming in 2020 and he could not supply us with any documentation. He gave the impression that the documentation was coming but he could not make it a guarantee in order for is to sign the contract. We are in no hurry. I would rather wait until something is officially announced by Marriott.
Understandable. It will be interesting to see if what he told you is consistent with future announcements.
 

JIMinNC

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,584
Reaction score
2,265
Points
449
Location
Marvin, NC (Charlotte suburb)
Resorts Owned
Marriott:
Maui Ocean Club
Waiohai Beach Club
Barony Beach Club
Destination Club Trust
HGVC:
HGVC at Sea World
A lot of us have been assuming that the eventual introduction of whatever integrated product they create will mirror the introduction of the DC in 2010, perhaps with a reasonable fee-based enrollment option. The more I think about it though, I'm not so sure any more. I think the circumstances today are totally different than they were in 2010.

In 2010, MVC was simply creating a new way to book/use what everyone had always had access to (the new points system vs. the old weeks system). The creation of the DC did not add any new locations, it just meant those who joined could access the same locations in a different way. Since most people were happy with the old system in the aggregate, to get people to adopt the new way, they probably felt they either had to 1.) make it easy/cheap or 2.) create fear that the new system would diminish the value of the legacy system. In fact, they used both tactics - they did make it easy/cheap and have used the "II trades will dry up" argument from the outset.

This time it's different. Both MVC and VSN have mature, established point systems that both essentially function in the same macro manner - you can use points to book rather than trade, and you can do short stays, etc. What they would really be adding now for each program is a host of new locations to visit. It doesn't seem farfetched that the folks at corporate might feel that this brings more substantial value to existing owners, and that can be spun and sold in a way that they don't have to offer the easy/cheap route this time. So, instead of it being a $1300 fee to join the new program, it could mean $20K or $30K of new money as the buy-in. That would certainly reduce participation rates, but if they think selling the sizzle of the new locations offers them the ability to boost overall sales, they might not really care about actual participation rates, and it might be a more likely path this time.

Also, if what the OP was pitched means that legacy Marriott sales offices are now using the "turn in your week to get the discount on the points" sales tactic (which seems to mirror the "retro" approach used by VSE), that may indicate a change in strategy for trying to shift inventory out of the legacy weeks systems into the points trusts.
 

Fasttr

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Messages
4,070
Reaction score
1,026
Points
298
Location
Connecticut
Resorts Owned
Marriott's Grande Ocean
MVC Trust Points
Interesting tactic with Option 1. Typically for a 2000 point purchase, MVC has traditionally offered a 15% or more discount off of the list price (in this case $14.26/point). But instead of just offering you the discount they have always offered, they are giving you 15% off in exchange for your Sunset Pointe week. So, you would essentially be giving them your week for free based on their past pricing strategy of offering an at least 15% discount off list to most buyers. If this is their new tactic to reacquire deeded weeks, I'm not impressed.
Jim....do they usually give a 15% discount at 2000 points including incentives? Seems to me that the following is what I see posted here most often....
3000 point purchase required to achieve
15% price discount with incentives....and additional incentive for financing.
20% price discount with no incentives....but with incentive for financing.

I don't recall seeing many 15% discounted 2000 point quotes including incentives (like his add'l 2000 DP's mentioned above). But then again, I could have missed them.
 
Last edited:

pchung6

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
560
Reaction score
189
Points
153
Location
California
Resorts Owned
WKORVN-OF, SVVx3, SBP, MKO-OV, MWR
deleted.
 
Last edited:

CPNY

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2019
Messages
2,676
Reaction score
1,045
Points
238
Resorts Owned
Harborside Resort at Atlantis
SVV - Key West
SVV - Bella
Regal Vista at Massanutten
That is exactly why we asked him for documented proof of the Starwood conversation. This is when the presentation came to an end and he requested our information to send us the documentation when it becomes available. I told him that we do not make deals without documented proof. Short and sweet . He was very professional and seemed confident that we would be talking again in the future. We'll see
Ahhh yes. The confident approach..... the I don’t care if you walk now because I KNOW you’ll be back. As if his bravado will validate his “honesty”. Timeshare sales people are the pits. Lol
 

CPNY

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2019
Messages
2,676
Reaction score
1,045
Points
238
Resorts Owned
Harborside Resort at Atlantis
SVV - Key West
SVV - Bella
Regal Vista at Massanutten
I have to call back central sales. They called with a bundle offer today
 
Last edited:

JIMinNC

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,584
Reaction score
2,265
Points
449
Location
Marvin, NC (Charlotte suburb)
Resorts Owned
Marriott:
Maui Ocean Club
Waiohai Beach Club
Barony Beach Club
Destination Club Trust
HGVC:
HGVC at Sea World
Jim....do they usually give a 15% discount at 2000 points including incentives? Seems to me that the following is what I see posted here most often....
3000 point purchase required to achieve
15% price discount with incentives....and additional incentive for financing.
20% price discount with no incentives....but with incentive for financing.

I don't recall seeing many 15% discounted 2000 point quotes including incentives (like his add'l 2000 DP's mentioned above). But then again, I could have missed them.
Back in April 2018 (our last presentation) we were pitched a bundle package that included 2000 points. The list price was $27920 for the points ($13.96), but the offer was $23720 ($11.86). That's a 15% discount. Back in 2014, we did not get any discount for only 1750 points. So, my assumption has always been the first discount level is 2000.
 

CPNY

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2019
Messages
2,676
Reaction score
1,045
Points
238
Resorts Owned
Harborside Resort at Atlantis
SVV - Key West
SVV - Bella
Regal Vista at Massanutten
So, instead of it being a $1300 fee to join the new program, it could mean $20K or $30K of new money as the buy-in.

Also, if what the OP was pitched means that legacy Marriott sales offices are now using the "turn in your week to get the discount on the points" sales tactic (which seems to mirror the "retro" approach used by VSE), that may indicate a change in strategy for trying to shift inventory out of the legacy weeks systems into the points trusts.
I don’t think as many people will buy in as you think. But that’s just my opinion.

The “retro” approach is fairly new. You could always retro with 20K new money. But as of recently it’s been lowered to 10K and this is the first time that I know of (again, I could be completely wrong) that they are offering “buy backs” for weeks and giving fake money in my mind, to buy into the new flex program. Is it to gain back weeks for inventory or is it just to increase sales revenue? Either way, it’s new to me.
 

Fasttr

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Messages
4,070
Reaction score
1,026
Points
298
Location
Connecticut
Resorts Owned
Marriott's Grande Ocean
MVC Trust Points
Back in April 2018 (our last presentation) we were pitched a bundle package that included 2000 points. The list price was $27920 for the points ($13.96), but the offer was $23720 ($11.86). That's a 15% discount. Back in 2014, we did not get any discount for only 1750 points. So, my assumption has always been the first discount level is 2000.
That could also be that it was because it was part of a bundle. Will have to search for some stand alone quotes for 2000 and see what I find.
 

DannyTS

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2018
Messages
2,619
Reaction score
943
Points
198
A lot of us have been assuming that the eventual introduction of whatever integrated product they create will mirror the introduction of the DC in 2010, perhaps with a reasonable fee-based enrollment option. The more I think about it though, I'm not so sure any more. I think the circumstances today are totally different than they were in 2010.

In 2010, MVC was simply creating a new way to book/use what everyone had always had access to (the new points system vs. the old weeks system). The creation of the DC did not add any new locations, it just meant those who joined could access the same locations in a different way. Since most people were happy with the old system in the aggregate, to get people to adopt the new way, they probably felt they either had to 1.) make it easy/cheap or 2.) create fear that the new system would diminish the value of the legacy system. In fact, they used both tactics - they did make it easy/cheap and have used the "II trades will dry up" argument from the outset.

This time it's different. Both MVC and VSN have mature, established point systems that both essentially function in the same macro manner - you can use points to book rather than trade, and you can do short stays, etc. What they would really be adding now for each program is a host of new locations to visit. It doesn't seem farfetched that the folks at corporate might feel that this brings more substantial value to existing owners, and that can be spun and sold in a way that they don't have to offer the easy/cheap route this time. So, instead of it being a $1300 fee to join the new program, it could mean $20K or $30K of new money as the buy-in. That would certainly reduce participation rates, but if they think selling the sizzle of the new locations offers them the ability to boost overall sales, they might not really care about actual participation rates, and it might be a more likely path this time.

Also, if what the OP was pitched means that legacy Marriott sales offices are now using the "turn in your week to get the discount on the points" sales tactic (which seems to mirror the "retro" approach used by VSE), that may indicate a change in strategy for trying to shift inventory out of the legacy weeks systems into the points trusts.
To me it is more a matter of do they want the enrollment money fast or slowly? A reasonable enrollment fee (say $1000) means a lot of people will want to participate and it can be done through an online registration, virtually at no cost. We have also debated before if the skim is profitable to them, I believe so. Maybe not as profitable as I thought at the beginning but even 3-4% of the whole Vistana inventory can mean a lot of units for them to rent.
Conversely they can do it through the sales dept but it is going to take a lot of time to get to the same numbers and it is going to be costly since they spend about 50% on the sales people, marketing etc. The other problem is that the sales force would just concentrate on this for a while, easier commission I assume, while leaving the other segments of the sales in the back burner. Those other segments can also mean more profit for the company in the long run since they mean bringing more fresh blood into the system. Lastly, implementing any kind of overlay will cost them money. A slow just just means costs and little to no new revenue and I do not see how this is a good thing.

Of course the sales people want everything to go through them. Is it in the interest of the shareholders though? I believe not.
 

CalGalTraveler

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
4,681
Reaction score
3,230
Points
348
Location
California
A lot of us have been assuming that the eventual introduction of whatever integrated product they create will mirror the introduction of the DC in 2010, perhaps with a reasonable fee-based enrollment option. The more I think about it though, I'm not so sure any more. I think the circumstances today are totally different than they were in 2010.

In 2010, MVC was simply creating a new way to book/use what everyone had always had access to (the new points system vs. the old weeks system). The creation of the DC did not add any new locations, it just meant those who joined could access the same locations in a different way. Since most people were happy with the old system in the aggregate, to get people to adopt the new way, they probably felt they either had to 1.) make it easy/cheap or 2.) create fear that the new system would diminish the value of the legacy system. In fact, they used both tactics - they did make it easy/cheap and have used the "II trades will dry up" argument from the outset.

This time it's different. Both MVC and VSN have mature, established point systems that both essentially function in the same macro manner - you can use points to book rather than trade, and you can do short stays, etc. What they would really be adding now for each program is a host of new locations to visit. It doesn't seem farfetched that the folks at corporate might feel that this brings more substantial value to existing owners, and that can be spun and sold in a way that they don't have to offer the easy/cheap route this time. So, instead of it being a $1300 fee to join the new program, it could mean $20K or $30K of new money as the buy-in. That would certainly reduce participation rates, but if they think selling the sizzle of the new locations offers them the ability to boost overall sales, they might not really care about actual participation rates, and it might be a more likely path this time.

Also, if what the OP was pitched means that legacy Marriott sales offices are now using the "turn in your week to get the discount on the points" sales tactic (which seems to mirror the "retro" approach used by VSE), that may indicate a change in strategy for trying to shift inventory out of the legacy weeks systems into the points trusts.
If they go with such an approach it will take a very long time to get quality VSN inventory in the DC system. I also am not sure if this will generate sufficient revenue rapidly that Wall St. expects from the acquisition. But I am certain they will run the scenarios and go with the program that maximizes revenue. This is a classic price elasticity problem.

We would not go for such a high priced offer to get a few more locations so we will simply use what we own with SOs. This slow approach will assure that the VSN inventory remains stable because there will be a large group of owners who will not enroll. So I would be good with it.

If they go with a low cost high volume enrollment approach similar to 2010 enrollment, then many more will participate (including ourselves).
 
Last edited:

JIMinNC

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,584
Reaction score
2,265
Points
449
Location
Marvin, NC (Charlotte suburb)
Resorts Owned
Marriott:
Maui Ocean Club
Waiohai Beach Club
Barony Beach Club
Destination Club Trust
HGVC:
HGVC at Sea World
To me it is more a matter of do they want the enrollment money fast or slowly? A reasonable enrollment fee (say $1000) means a lot of people will want to participate and it can be done through an online registration, virtually at no cost. We have also debated before if the skim is profitable to them, I believe so. Maybe not as profitable as I thought at the beginning but even 3-4% of the whole Vistana inventory can mean a lot of units for them to rent.
Conversely they can do it through the sales dept but it is going to take a lot of time to get to the same numbers and it is going to be costly since they spend about 50% on the sales people, marketing etc. The other problem is that the sales force would just concentrate on this for a while, easier commission I assume, while leaving the other segments of the sales in the back burner. Those other segments can also mean more profit for the company in the long run since they mean bringing more fresh blood into the system. Lastly, implementing any kind of overlay will cost them money. A slow just just means costs and little to no new revenue and I do not see how this is a good thing.

Of course the sales people want everything to go through them. Is it in the interest of the shareholders though? I believe not.
Very valid points...if you assume an enrollment fee is almost pure gross profit, but a $25K points purchase includes inventory cost of 30% and marketing/sales cost of 50%, the gross profit on the $25K is only 20% ($5000). So in that scenario, if a $1000 fee scenario enticed more than 5 people to join for every one that would join by a buy-in, it could make economic sense for them to do the fee.

Will be interesting to see what develops.

The OP's pitch of a deed surrender to get a 15% discount versus just a straight offer of 15%-off is a new one for MVC (at least the first time I can recall that approach being reported). It will be interesting to see if we see more of that.
 

CPNY

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2019
Messages
2,676
Reaction score
1,045
Points
238
Resorts Owned
Harborside Resort at Atlantis
SVV - Key West
SVV - Bella
Regal Vista at Massanutten
If they go with such an approach it will take a very long time to get quality VSN inventory in the DC system. I also am not sure if this will generate sufficient revenue rapidly that Wall St. expect from the acquisition. But I am certain they will run the scenarios and go with the program that maximizes revenue.

We would not go for such a high priced offer to get a few more locations so we will simply use what we own with SOs. This slow approach will assure that the VSN inventory remains stable because there will be a large group of owners who will not enroll.

If they go with a low cost high volume enrollment approach similar to 2010 enrollment, then many more will participate (including ourselves).
I don’t even think his will happen in 2020. We may see some benefit such as interchangeable priority across brands through interval in the short term. But I’m with you. I’d enroll for a reasonable fee. The idea of spending tens of thousands of dollars for ownership is not on my short list

In other news. The MVC central sales office called me back with the “most amazing amazing bundle that I’m going to love”. I need to call them back, just too tired to play the cat and mouse game tonight lol.
 

CalGalTraveler

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
4,681
Reaction score
3,230
Points
348
Location
California
The days of spending tens of thousands of dollars for ownership is not on my short list
My thoughts exactly. We are close to a saturation point with 3 timeshares thus we have no appetite for spending a lot of money on a few more locations; it's diminishing returns. Especially knowing what happens to resale values.
 
Last edited:

CPNY

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2019
Messages
2,676
Reaction score
1,045
Points
238
Resorts Owned
Harborside Resort at Atlantis
SVV - Key West
SVV - Bella
Regal Vista at Massanutten
My thoughts exactly.
Especially when I picked up 3 mandatory platinum deeds in the last month. I’m doing ok with star options and maint fees, enough for me to go where I need. I actually may have a bit too much.
 
Top