Mother/child - is this the norm?

[DianeH]

Baby is 10 months old and splits her time between mom and dad. The past week was dads turn, and so it happens its Christmas as well. Mom did not ask for baby anytime during Christmas, infact has not seen her since December 19.
Is this normal?

Diane

 

[Dave M]

There is no good answer based on your info. Mom might well have been engaged in other things and didn't feel the need. At 10 months, I believe Mom and baby not seeing each other at Christmas is not a big deal.

Every situation is different, so discussing what is normal needs a complete analysis of more info than could ever be presented here.

 

[mepiccolo]

I agree that what is normal for one person is not the norm for another. That said, HECK NO it's not normal in my eyes. What better thing could a mother possibly be doing than spending a baby's first Christmas with him/her? Even if the child is too young to realize that Christmas is a special day and mommy is not there - it does say something about the mother. Am I being judgmental - yes. If that was my daughter and grandbaby my daughter would have a big lump of coal under the tree waiting for her. Divorce sucks for children but if the parents are mature and respectful for the child's sake they can work it out so the child spends time with both parents on Christmas and other special holidays. Mom may not think the baby will remember but in 8 years when she sees photos of her first Christmas as a baby and mommy is nowhere to be found because it wasn't "her turn to watch her"... I know my opinion may not be popular but I don't care about hurting an adult's feelings-I care about children and I'd have to be on my deathbed to not be with my children at Christmas time or any other special days. But that's just me and once I became a mother, I became a mother bear to all children, not just my own. So, no not normal...common in this "it's all about me" age, unfortunately, yes, much too common.

 

[Keitht]

Without knowing a lot more detail of the state of the relationship between the parents it's impossible to judge.
One possible scenario is that there is little communication between the parents and the mother was worried about the repercussions of requesting any change to the standard 'week about' arrangement. She may have thought it in the child's best interest to leave things as they are rather than being selfish about it and demanding she have the child over Christmas.
As I say, just one possible scenario!

 

[camachinist]

Personally, I'd likely resist determining what is normal for other people. So, in that spirit, I hope father and baby had a joyous and memorable Christmas. IMO, the important thing for a child of divorce is to have as stable and loving home as possible. Mothers and fathers are equal in my eyes in that regard

Pat

 

[Lawlar]

No More Court

This Thread reminds me of one of the saddest things I saw in our legal system. I had a hearing in a business case on December 24th. Afterwards, I walked down the hall where they had the family law hearings. The hallway was full of children whose parents were arguing before judges as to who would get the children for Xmas. Sad. Very sad.

I really think our family issues should be taken out of the court system.

 

[JudyS]

Without knowing a lot more detail of the state of the relationship between the parents it's impossible to judge.
One possible scenario is that there is little communication between the parents and the mother was worried about the repercussions of requesting any change to the standard 'week about' arrangement. She may have thought it in the child's best interest to leave things as they are rather than being selfish about it and demanding she have the child over Christmas.
As I say, just one possible scenario!

Keith raises a good point. After my parents' divorce, I really didn't want to have anything to do with my father. (He had been physically abusive to my mother, and to some extent, to me and my sister as well.) However, the court ordered me to have unsupervised visits with him, and my mother was afraid that if she didn't obey the court order, my father would get custody of me. (Her losing custody was a realistic possibility despite my father's behavior. My father was a former judge and politically powerful in our small town, and had managed to get my mother committed for a time to a mental hospital even though she wasn't insane.) So, I don't think it's fair to assume that the mother being away from her child on Christmas means she doesn't care about the child.

Also, I know that this is not the place for political debate, but I would like to comment on something I have noticed in this thread. Some of the posts here could be taken as implying that mothers have more responsibility to care for their children than fathers do. (I'm not sure if that was what the posters intended, or not.) I strongly feel that we as a society should hold all parents, whether female or male, as responsible for the well-being of their children. Many children today are being raised by single mothers who really struggle to provide single-handedly for their children's needs (not only financial needs, but children's needs to be kept safe, to be fed, bathed, educated, and loved.) Raising a child is a huge job for one person to do alone. Unless fathers as well as mothers are seen as responsible for their children, our children won't get the care they need.

 

[wauhob3]

It doesn't sound like its her choice regardless. Perhaps she's already calculated that next year will be her week.

 

[DianeH]

I assure you she did have a choice, she always has a choice to see her child. She has never been prevented from seeing her, except once when it was found that she was still using an illegal car seat. This mother never saw her baby on her first Mothers Day, on her birthday (the mothers) or 3 days after that, infact since Sept 1 to Dec 10, she has had 20 unexplainable absenses from her baby. In other words, days that she was meant to have baby but chose not to show up and then refuses to answer her phone. I've never seen anything like it but I come from a stable family and have not lived or experienced a parental breakup. I was wondering if I was just naive to the ways of 23 year olds now or if she really was an odd ball.

Thanks for you input. Every bit helps.

Diane

 

[DebBrown]

From your last post, I'd say maybe it is just as well that the baby is with her father. It sounds like a sad situation in general.

From the "benefit of doubt" perspective, if I didn't have kids on Christmas, I'd be in a much warmer climate for the week!

Deb

 

[Icarus]

Baby is 10 months old and splits her time between mom and dad. The past week was dads turn, and so it happens its Christmas as well. Mom did not ask for baby anytime during Christmas, infact has not seen her since December 19.
Is this normal?

Diane

What's normal? It's up to the parents to figure that out, and hopefully over time they will work it out for the benefit of the child.

-David

 

[DianeH]

Yes you are right David. MMOB.
and yes, baby and daddy had a wonderful Christmas.

Diane

 

[Icarus]

I've been pretty fortunate in this area as my ex-wife invites me over on the holidays. But not everybody can do that, and in that case they have to come up with some sort of split schedule.

This xmas it was the ex-wife, my daughter, ex-wife's other daughter and friend, ex-wife's bf, and me. I went over there early in the morning for the opening of the gifts, and later we spent the rest of the day having a picnic at the beach.

I don't know what normal is, but the ex-wife has been great with holidays, etc.

-David

 

[isisdave]

Has anyone considered post-partum depression?

 

[wauhob3]

I'd keep keeping track of her no shows in case the Dad ever wants physical custody which for an older child would probably be better. My brother's first wife was like that and he ended up raising thrir son pretty much by himself with his ex-wife being sporadic in her visitation. He's grown now into a wonderful young man and is being deployed next week.

David its wonderful your ex-wife and you have been able to maintain a positive enough relationship to do what's best for your daughter.

 

[Liz Wolf-Spada]

If I didn't have a child, I'd be in Hawaii every Christmas, but I have always felt strongly (as a single and divorced Mom) that my son would be with me and Christmas. I had sole custody, but drove up to Northern California so he could visit with his dad at least a couple times a year. In fact, my DH and I were up in San Francisco for Christmas to be with my son and took both him and hid dad to a play and dinner. So, I am thankful, that our friendship, (if not our marriage) has stayed strong.

I would be concerned about this young woman. She is very young, she is single, she could have post-partum depression, she could have had a unstable childhood herself and lack the role models she needs for parenting. What is her support system like?

Liz

 

[JudyS]

I assure you she did have a choice, she always has a choice to see her child. She has never been prevented from seeing her, except once when it was found that she was still using an illegal car seat. This mother never saw her baby on her first Mothers Day, on her birthday (the mothers) or 3 days after that, infact since Sept 1 to Dec 10, she has had 20 unexplainable absenses from her baby. In other words, days that she was meant to have baby but chose not to show up and then refuses to answer her phone. I've never seen anything like it but I come from a stable family and have not lived or experienced a parental breakup. I was wondering if I was just naive to the ways of 23 year olds now or if she really was an odd ball.

Thanks for you input. Every bit helps.

Diane

It could be that the mother is just young and irresponsible, or she could have postpartum depression (as others mentioned here), or a drug problem, or any of a number of other problems.

I think what you should do here depends on what your role in this is, and what you are trying to accomplish. Is the baby a relative of yours (grandchild, maybe)? Is the goal to try to ensure that the baby gets to have a relationship with her mother? Or, to make sure that the baby's mother is OK? Or, to get back at the baby's mother for being irresponsible?

If this is your grandchild, you may want to either try to get counseling for the mother (if she may have a problem such as depression), or try to get custody transferred to the child's father. However, if the baby's father is your son, you are probably too close to the situation to be objective about the mother's behavior. If you are more angry at the baby's mother than the baby's father is, there may be more to the situation than what you know. If the baby's father is your son, I would not encourage or pressure him to take any action against the baby's mother. You can present him with options, but I would let him be the judge of whether action is needed.

 

[Zac495]

I don't think there's anything normal or not normal on the face of things - I don't think any of us can judge a situation based on a post. A 10 month old doesn't know it's Christmas - I personally wouldn't have wanted to miss my kids' first Christmas - but that was for ME, not the kids. So that alone doesn't mean a lot to me - people get pleasure from different things. Christmas to those who are Christian believers is a totally different day than to those who enjoy opening presents with their familes (no better/worse - no offense meant to anyone).

I go along with the previous poster's question -what is your relationship to the parents/child? Tread lightly regardless - maybe more so if you're the grandmother. Unless there's real neglect (and I don't consider skipping visitation on Christmas neglect - maybe selfishness - maybe...) or abuse, it's really only the parents' business.

 

[Patri]

For that gal, it sounds normal.

 

[mepiccolo]

I'm curious if anyone out there knows the answer to this question that this post has made me think of: Everyone I know, myself included, that was having symptoms of post partum depression, came to feel that this condition was caused by exhaustion and lack of sleep. As soon as we got a good night's sleep the symptoms definitely got better or went away completely. So of course a first time mother not used to so much responsibility 24/7 and a mother with many small children would be more likely to suffer from this. I'm no expert on the subject but this is honestly what I've found in speaking with other mothers. Is this a correct observation? If so, could a mother who has several days off from having her baby really have post partum depression, six months after the birth? Some people have tried to say that Casey Anthony might have had that but if that was true she would have been home depressed, not out partying. I sometimes think this condition is used as an excuse for bad behavior. I know it is a true condition - I'm just wondering if hormonal changes PLUS exhaustion/lack of sleep is the real culprit, not just hormonal changes.

 

[3kids4me]

I don't think there's anything normal or not normal on the face of things - I don't think any of us can judge a situation based on a post. A 10 month old doesn't know it's Christmas - I personally wouldn't have wanted to miss my kids' first Christmas - but that was for ME, not the kids. So that alone doesn't mean a lot to me - people get pleasure from different things. Christmas to those who are Christian believers is a totally different day than to those who enjoy opening presents with their familes (no better/worse - no offense meant to anyone).

I go along with the previous poster's question -what is your relationship to the parents/child? Tread lightly regardless - maybe more so if you're the grandmother. Unless there's real neglect (and I don't consider skipping visitation on Christmas neglect - maybe selfishness - maybe...) or abuse, it's really only the parents' business.

I could not agree more with this post.

 

[3kids4me]

I'm curious if anyone out there knows the answer to this question that this post has made me think of: Everyone I know, myself included, that was having symptoms of post partum depression, came to feel that this condition was caused by exhaustion and lack of sleep. As soon as we got a good night's sleep the symptoms definitely got better or went away completely.

According to the Mayo Clinic website (and others), this condition is caused by more than just a "lack of sleep".
---------------------
After childbirth, a dramatic drop in estrogen and progesterone may contribute to postpartum depression. The hormones produced by your thyroid gland also may drop sharply — which can leave you feeling tired, sluggish and depressed. Changes in your blood volume, blood pressure, immune system and metabolism can lead to fatigue and mood swings.

---------------------

I've been fortunate enough not to suffer from this, but I knew a woman who was literally suicidal because of hormonal imbalances after childbirth. Depression in general is a serious medical problem, not something that a little sleep will cure.

 

[geekette]

I assure you she did have a choice, she always has a choice to see her child. She has never been prevented from seeing her, except once when it was found that she was still using an illegal car seat. This mother never saw her baby on her first Mothers Day, on her birthday (the mothers) or 3 days after that, infact since Sept 1 to Dec 10, she has had 20 unexplainable absenses from her baby. In other words, days that she was meant to have baby but chose not to show up and then refuses to answer her phone. I've never seen anything like it but I come from a stable family and have not lived or experienced a parental breakup. I was wondering if I was just naive to the ways of 23 year olds now or if she really was an odd ball.

Thanks for you input. Every bit helps.

Diane

I didn't read the thread beyond this point, so don't know if this has been brought up, but isn't it possible that Mom has some medical issues? She could have untreated post-partum depression or other emotional/mental issues. Could be she is depressed and suicidal for reasons not at all related to the child but to chemical imbalances that she cannot control.

And there are women that have children not because they want to. The options there are too many and veer into political, so make your list silently. My point is, Mom may not have ever wanted to be a Mom and does not have "the Mom gene" (I know I don't have that so assume other females are just not Mother Material).

But don't assume that Mom is just A Bad Mom when there could be medical reasons you don't know about behind it. If Dad is a perfectly good and caring Dad, then, junior has at least a primary caretaker.

 

[normab]

walk a mile in her shoes

I just wanted to say that I was a single mother at my son's 4th Christmas. While I did not do anything that I consider unusual or detrimental to him for the past 15 years, who knows what my ex may say.

I think it is unfair to sit in judgement of others. Unless you have experienced the loss of divorce, and yes, it is a loss like a death of a loved one, you cannot possibly even understand how sad a person feels. And without spending some time in someone else's shoes, you can't possibly understand where the other person is coming from. I cried for an entire year but I didn't show it to others--it was my private hell--and I am sure my ex's family thought I was a bad person and said lots of 4 letter words about me.

So, while I agree that a mother under "normal" circumstances might not leave her child for an entire week at the holidays, these circumstances are not "normal". It may painful for her, but she may have agreed to this and is sticking to her agreement. The courts have done some wierd things in my 3 visits to court over 15 years, and even if I do not agree with the decisions I abide by them.

Just my opinion...

 

[Egret1986]

Try not to judge, and be thankful for the child's well-being with Dad

No one really knows all the circumstances. This probably wasn't a planned pregnancy and the parents of the child are no longer together. As was said previously, not everyone is cut out for parenthood or wants it. I know when I was 23 and for many years after that, I had no desire to have children and didn't really care to be around them. My greatest joys are my two sons who will be 15 day after tomorrow. But the time was right and the relationship was right (married 10 years). I feel like I'm a much better mother than I would have been if I had my children at a young age and in an unstable or non-existent relationship with the father. Without knowing any more (which is not necessary to know), I can only imagine what a young woman of 23 might be going through emotionally in possibly having had an unplanned pregnancy and not being in a relationship any longer with the child's father. That would be tough even for someone with a lot more maturity. Best wishes to you and yours through these difficult circumstances.