More questions from a potential buyer...

[bigrockstar]

Hello!

I apologize, like many who have come before me with similar questions, if these have already been answered somewhere else on the forum. I've been lurking on this forum for a couple of years, and am about to "pull the trigger" on an HGVC resale purchase, but need to ask a few questions to those with experience.

A little about me

I am a 38-year-old single male teacher, which means I work September through June, with vacationing availability during the two weeks including Christmas and New Years, the last week in March (generally), and during Summer break, late June through late August. My family has traveled to Las Vegas every year to celebrate Christmas for about 8 years. We have stayed at the HGVC on the Boulevard twice, and absolutely adore that property. Usually, I book a one-bedroom for my mom and I (through sites like Priceline or Kayak), and others who join us get their own rooms at the same resort. If I ever marry, I can make my younger brother deal with mom! I also like to travel to other destinations during my Spring and Summer Breaks, but would likely choose to stay in studio-sized accommodations, thus extending my vacation value.​

What I'm considering

I am thinking about purchasing a couple of platinum weeks at HGVC on the Boulevard. I would be sure to get enough points to cover that Christmas trip in a one-bedroom, and about 3 more vacation weeks per year in studio accommodations at other resorts. I am a reasonably long-term planner, and imagine that I will be able to book at around the 276-day mark for most of my travel.​

Here are my questions, and feel free to answer just one. I'll take any advice I can get!

1) Is it fair to assume any resale purchase of HGVC ownership (specifically at the property I'm considering) is a lifetime purchase? Are there scenarios where the purchase is for a specific term? Would that have to be disclosed before signing anything?​

2) Do you have to pay any insurance on the ownership (akin to rental insurance), beyond the initial purchase of title insurance?​

3) I know this has been asked many times over the years, and there's no way to predict the market, but... What is the likelihood (right at the opening of club season) that I'll be able to snag the last week in March, or a week in late June through mid August in a studio accommodation:​

• In any of the Hawaii resorts?
• In Parc Soleil or Tuscany Village in Orlando?
• In one of the Caribbean resorts?
• In one of the New York resorts (understanding the booking window is different)?

4) What is it like booking one of the JTB resorts in Japan? Is it a straightforward online booking like any other club booking, or do you have to call for availability and to book?​

5) I've noticed on this forum that MFs typically increase 3-5% per year. This outpaces inflation. I also noticed that sometimes, the fees increase by 10% or more. Is this likely to happen at some point in any HGVC ownership? Has anyone ever seen their fees stay within 1-2% of the previous year's?​

6) It seems like people on this forum generally don't see great value in exchanges with RCI. Fees notwithstanding, is there anyone here that has had great success with RCI exchanges through HGVC?​

I REALLY appreciate the experience and guidance you have to offer. I'm getting excited at the prospect of actually doing this! Rest assured that if I do become an owner, I will certainly join this forum as a paying member. Thanks!

 

[jmann]

We have done a exchanges through RCI and have enjoyed the properties—one was Saratoga Springs and the other at Big Cedar. We’ve also stayed at Wyndham properties. For us, RCI is a good way to expand available properties..just do your research on the property.

 

[tombanjo]

a few random answers
Generally - a purchase is for life, but there are some resorts with a limited deed. In theory - the seller should disclose, but not all sellers are great. Hilton Club New York has some deeds that expire in 2032. The estoppel may not list it, but a copy of the deed would show any conditions.
You don't need insurance
Most of the Japanese resorts need to be booked by calling in. The points are very high. I'd never ever consider going to one. They are really geared to the Japanese domestic market.
Hilton Club New York can only be booked by owners. The other 3 NY Properties have a club season where anyone with points can reserve. However, only owners have access to the owners lounge.
You might put together a spreadsheet showing what you paid for the previous Las Vegas trips compared to the cost of buy in and MF to see if you are better renting or buying.

 

[dayooper]

Welcome to the forum! I’ll try to answer the best I can.

1. The only HGVC units that have a termination date that I have heard of are some of the older The Hilton Club units. Otherwise, they are perpetual.

2. None that I’m aware of.

3. Hawaii resorts - Most of the Big Island resorts should be bookable, especially Bay Club. Oahu might be harder. If they are available, you may have to book right at the 276 day mark or even walk your reservation. Orlando should be no problem. There’s only 1 Caribbean resort and there aren’t many units available there tight now (they are building more). Not sure on NY.

4. I think you have to call.

5. Vegas and Scotland are your best bets for lower MF increases. If you want, there is an awesome spreadsheet maintained by @GT75 that shows the MF’s for most of the resorts. You can look at the history in the MF Sticky and it will give the increase from the previous year. (The spreadsheet is in the thread linked).

2020 Hilton Grand Vacations Maintenance Fees

* Please limit this thread to only the MF specifics and take discussions/commentary to the discussion boards. Thank you! * Owners, please report your Weeks MF's as they are billed (NOT proposed/estimated) in this format: Resort Name/Unit Size Operating Fee Reserve Fee Property Taxes (or note...

tugbbs.com

6. There are some that have had great experiences, but I have never personally used RCI. Generally speaking, the quality in most RCI resorts is lower than HGVC properties. If you are thinking of trading, I would suggest spending the $15 and join the TUG membership site. There are literally 1000’s of resort reviews that you can pour over and decide to travel, too. Best $15 I have spent time sharing.

 

[bigrockstar]

We have done a exchanges through RCI and have enjoyed the properties—one was Saratoga Springs and the other at Big Cedar. We’ve also stayed at Wyndham properties. For us, RCI is a good way to expand available properties..just do your research on the property.

Thanks for this feedback. It's certainly heartening to hear that it can be a good use of points, in the right circumstance!

 

[bigrockstar]

Most of the Japanese resorts need to be booked by calling in. The points are very high. I'd never ever consider going to one. They are really geared to the Japanese domestic market.

That makes sense. I did see some units listed on the site for 4,000 pts. in platinum season, but didn't really look at location or think too much about accommodation.

You might put together a spreadsheet showing what you paid for the previous Las Vegas trips compared to the cost of buy in and MF to see if you are better renting or buying.

Oh, believe me, I have. For just the one-bedroom advance purchase at HGVC Las Vegas for this coming Christmas week, it would be $1,403.70 (resort fee incl.) booked with the HHonors discount. Add three more full weeks of great vacations per year at other destinations and there really isn't a question of value. The question for me is more about availability and ease of use. I am not the kind of traveler that would want to be stuck at one resort for all of my vacations.

I really appreciate your guidance!

 

[bigrockstar]

Welcome to the forum! I’ll try to answer the best I can.

1. The only HGVC units that have a termination date that I have heard of are some of the older The Hilton Club units. Otherwise, they are perpetual.

2. None that I’m aware of.

That's a relief!

3. Hawaii resorts - Most of the Big Island resorts should be bookable, especially Bay Club. Oahu might be harder. If they are available, you may have to book right at the 276 day mark or even walk your reservation. Orlando should be no problem. There’s only 1 Caribbean resort and there aren’t many units available there tight now (they are building more). Not sure on NY.

Thank you very much for your thoughtful reply. I guess I should have been more specific. Do club bookings to the Fiesta Americana resorts work the same as regular HGVC bookings?

5. Vegas and Scotland are your best bets for lower MF increases. If you want, there is an awesome spreadsheet maintained by @GT75 that shows the MF’s for most of the resorts. You can look at the history in the MF Sticky and it will give the increase from the previous year. (The spreadsheet is in the thread linked).

Thanks for this link! That's where I saw most MF's raising by 3-5%, with the occasional exception. It's promising that the Las Vegas resorts don't seem to increase their fees as rapidly as some of the others.

If you are thinking of trading, I would suggest spending the $15 and join the TUG membership site. There are literally 1000’s of resort reviews that you can pour over and decide to travel, too. Best $15 I have spent time sharing.

Of course! Thank you for all of this great information.

 

[JDHPE]

HGVC has been a terrific travel tool and you should enjoy it equally. Would caution against over-spending on more than one initial ownership contract, especially at this unstable time. Recommend one contract as a test drive and looking at the option to rent additional weeks/points as a cost equal (or less) to signing up for perpetual annual maintenance fees. And in the end, if you want more weeks, spreading out their acquisition is similar to a dollar cost average investing philosophy.

 

[dayooper]

@bigrockstar A couple of added things.

2. Like Hilton Hotels, many HGVC resorts do charge your credit card for in resorts purchases. These are things like food, drinks, items from the general store and the like. The charge is reversed for whatever you don’t use. Having stayed at HGVC resorts before, I’m assuming you know about these charges. We owners still pay those in some resorts. In places like Hawaii, there may be a Hawaiian tax that applies to anybody vacationing in Hawaii.

 

[SmithOp]

Agree with @JDHPE start with a single contract >= 7K points and use open season for extra cash stays.

Don’t jump in the deep end.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[DannyTS]

disclaimer: I have only had the RCI points for a month and I did not own the HGVC contract for that so I may not be in the best position to offer the best advice on the comparison

We briefly owned one of the cheapest MF/point in the HGVC system (7000k annually) and we decided to sell and buy an RCI points contract (we also have several Vistana properties so we use Interval as well).

We bought a 4 BR annual contract at Regal Vistas in Massanutten 178k RCI points, MF for 2020 is $1030. This is the cheapest MF/point contract in RCI I am aware of. I have no regrets. Maybe you should look into that route as well. There are advantages and disadvantages for both HGVC and RCI Points, see what works best for you.

As an example because you mention Park soleil in Orlando, I can book 2.5 weeks in a 2 BR in Orlando with my 178k annual points (highest season) so it is very cost effective.

Of course the availability is better for the HGVC internal exchanges but I am OK with that since we still seem to find good deals in RCI and since we have several other timeshares and I try to keep the overall annual cost down.

 

[CarlosRobayo23]

disclaimer: I have only had the RCI points for a month and I did not own the HGVC contract for that so I may not be in the best position to offer the best advice on the comparison

We briefly owned one of the cheapest MF/point in the HGVC system (7000k annually) and we decided to sell and buy an RCI points contract (we also have several Vistana properties so we use Interval as well).

We bought a 4 BR annual contract at Regal Vistas in Massanutten 178k RCI points, MF for 2020 is $1030. This is the cheapest MF/point contract in RCI I am aware of. I have no regrets. Maybe you should look into that route as well. There are advantages and disadvantages for both HGVC and RCI Points, see what works best for you.

As an example because you mention Park soleil in Orlando, I can book 2.5 weeks in a 2 BR in Orlando with my 178k annual points (highest season) so it is very cost effective.

View attachment 18580


Of course the availability is better for the HGVC internal exchanges but I am OK with that since we still seem to find good deals in RCI and since we have several other timeshares and I try to keep the overall annual cost down.

Good analysis. Don’t forget to include the RCI exchange fee for every week $239. That would be $597 aprox per year if you book 2.5 weeks as you mentioned.

 

[DannyTS]

Good analysis. Don’t forget to include the RCI exchange fee for every week $239. That would be $597 aprox per year if you book 2.5 weeks as you mentioned.

thank you for pointing that out but I think there is also a fee to book in HGVC (not the home resort)

RCI booking (7-13 nights) $209
HGVC booking $69

RCI membership $124
HGVC membership (includes RCI fee) $ 175 ? I am not sure



for a full list of fees

RCI US Points Fees

The RCI Points program provides RCI subscribing members the ability to trade their vacation week.

www.rci.com

Member Sign In

 

[seagila]

Don’t forget to include the RCI exchange fee for every week $239. That would be $597 aprox per year if you book 2.5 weeks as you mentioned.

Also add the $25/day resort fee (as of Dec 2019) for RCI exchanges into many, if not most, HGVC resorts. That's another $425/year in additional fees for 2.5 weeks via RCI. Not to mention that HGVC points will give the owner better access to hard-to-book HGVC resorts (e.g. Oahu and Hilton Head Island resorts) which would be extremely difficult to get via an RCI trade. Makes the argument for an HGVC ownership stronger vs an RCI trade, if the intention is to stay at HGVC resorts.

 

[CarlosRobayo23]

Is there any RCI resort other that HGVC and Disney’s Saratoga that is worthy to visit at least once?

I’m curious about that. Maybe the OP knows the answer.

 

[bigrockstar]

HGVC has been a terrific travel tool and you should enjoy it equally. Would caution against over-spending on more than one initial ownership contract, especially at this unstable time. Recommend one contract as a test drive and looking at the option to rent additional weeks/points as a cost equal (or less) to signing up for perpetual annual maintenance fees. And in the end, if you want more weeks, spreading out their acquisition is similar to a dollar cost average investing philosophy.

Thanks for the advice. It's certainly something I have considered. At the end of the day, I think the price I would be paying would be more than justified over 40+ years of potential ownership. I am only looking to purchase one contract at this time. I love to travel, and don't foresee that changing anytime soon. An example (and please correct any of my calculations, if faulty or misinformed):

Suppose I got into a resale contract with MF's at around $1000 for 7000 pts, and used 4800 pts. to book the 1-bdr at HGVC on the Boulevard for Christmas, and wanted to use the other 2200 to book a studio in platinum season at Lagoon Tower in Oahu (maybe wishful thinking, I know...). Factor in the $185 (?) annual dues, as well as the $138 fee total to book two weeks online through HGVC during club season, and the current annual total cost comes to approx. $1,323. The cost savings by going with HGVC to buy those two vacation weeks over booking direct through Hilton (with HHonors discount) would be $2,432.49 this year (in the lowest tier room at HHV). The savings over booking the Waikiki resort instead using Hotwire in a mystery resort with the same star rating as HHV (4*) would be $1,419.91 this year. If I get a great deal on my HGVC purchase price (~75 cents per point), the savings I calculated above could potentially pay off the initial purchase price in less than three years if I book through Hilton, or four years rolling the dice on Hotwire.​

Considering the info above, I'm even more convinced it would be a good use of my travel money to invest in an HGVC resale contract. Purchasing points instead of renting would mean I don't have to worry about the possibility that I might not be able to find enough points for the right price. I regularly pay the prices I listed above to take trips like those I used in my example, so I think it makes a lot of sense for me. I probably spent over $3000 on hotel stays this past year. Once again, the most important consideration for me is availability of inventory for the dates I can travel. I have had a hard time finding explicit information, and my biggest fear is to invest in this program, only to find that the only available inventory during my travel dates is at my home resort, or at resorts or room types I have no interest in booking. At this point, I am most interested in returning to Las Vegas, Hawaii, Florida, Europe, and tropical destinations. I figure that I could try to get good RCI exchanges if I want to venture out of the HGVC inventory, knowing that the fees will be considerably higher, but still likely lower than if I were to book similar resorts through traditional methods (such as Kayak or Priceline).

Again, I really appreciate your help!

 

[JDHPE]

The best answer for your inventory availability at your preferred times concern would be to buy the initial resale contract, then you will be able to search the system yourself. From my experience in Hawaii, 9-months out inventory has generally been available, but I have never tried Christmas bookings (an event week), so cannot speak to then (last week booked Ocean Tower New Year’s Eve @ 9-mos. and all Big Island resorts had inventory).

 

[bigrockstar]

The best answer for your inventory availability at your preferred times concern would be to buy the initial resale contract, then you will be able to search the system yourself. From my experience in Hawaii, 9-months out inventory has generally been available, but I have never tried Christmas bookings (an event week), so cannot speak to then (last week booked Ocean Tower New Year’s Eve @ 9-mos. and all Big Island resorts had inventory).

That makes sense. Thanks again.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Is there any RCI resort other that HGVC and Disney’s Saratoga that is worthy to visit at least once?

I’m curious about that. Maybe the OP knows the answer.

Depends where you want to go. There are some nice Cabo properties that are non-mandatory AI. Fiesta Americana now requires AI so we now look elsewhere.

RCI also offers Tradewinds cruises if that floats your boat.

 

[simon63]

As a FAVC owner I visited a cople of times Las Vegas Boulevard in open season, it was easy and cheap, I think they have a lot of availavilty, but for christmas I don’t think, but since they canceled the open season for us, I use my points at Favc, and when I travel to LV I usually look for last minute at GDLV, what is not dificult to find.

 

[ski_sierra]

It seems like you are a great candidate for HGVC. You have a recession-proof job and you have done your due diligence. You will probably get a great deal because of the mess we are in and there might be more sellers towards the end of the year.

I find HGVC to be a really great points system if the locations work for you. Have you investigated other points systems? Hyatt, Vistana, Wyndham, Worldmark have lots of fans on TUG as well.

 

[Flasher42]

Im with interval and own week not points. Just a question why choose points option over a guaranteed week? I have made some good trades thru II. just takes planning.

 

[Flasher42]

Also a Few yrs ago traded into HGVC stayed in a 2bedroom. Massive and very luxurious. Even up high with a red room? I own at club de soleil

 

[bigrockstar]

Im with interval and own week not points. Just a question why choose points option over a guaranteed week? I have made some good trades thru II. just takes planning.

With the purchase of a week totalling 7,000 points, I could enjoy more than one annual week-long trip. 4,800 pts. for my Christmas in Vegas, and 2,200 pts. for a week in a studio somewhere else. I could also further split it up into nightly reservations.

 

[JDHPE]

I believe there is a three night minimum reservation with points. Single nights are Open Season using cash only.

BTW - a huge shout out to all of the senior Tuggers, who‘s forum posts are the foundation of my limited knowledge. Be safe everyone