More bad news for the big 3 timeshare developers

[timeos2]

Looks like things aren't going to be any better anytime soon for the big three (and most likely all the others) developers / timeshare sales

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2008/12/17/ap5835771.html

Plus Marriott announced a 1500 person layoff of "club" employees and closure of a call center in Orlando. Doesn't sound like ROFR, or other resale activities will be back anytime soon if they are shutting down whole operation centers.

We haven't seen the bottom yet.

 

[timeos2]

And this:

http://www.wftv.com/news/18304558/detail.html#-

 

[AwayWeGo]

2 Questions.

1. How can Mariott respond to members' reservation requests when the Marriott call center is closed down ?

2. How is the downturn going to affect hard-sell timeshare tours & in-house hard-sell sales pitches? Will it cause the timeshare companies to eliminate the tour invitations? Send out more invitations? Increase the pressure? Scale back the freebies? Jack up the freebies as the timeshare companies get more & more desperate to sell what they've got? Fire all the headhunters & timeshare sellers & tell'm all to go home & wait for the bailout ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Kola]

How about GOOD (?) NEWS - more T/S in Orlando !

Who said most T/S news are bad these days ? It takes real optimists to launch a Holiday Inn Club Vacations resort in overbuilt Orlando that will include 2,412 villas and a 1,400-acre golf and water park at an Orange Lake development just outside Disney World.

According to the media Orange Lake Resorts will sell T/S intervals for Holiday Inn Club Vacations under a contract with InterContinental Hotels. Future plans call for adding existing Orange Lake resorts in Panama City, Fla.; Ascutney, Vt.; and Lake Geneva, Wis., to the new Holiday Inn time-share portfolio by early 2009.

Just wonder: Will the banks continue to provide credit for these developments ?

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/business_tourism_aviation/2008/12/holiday-inn-bra.html

K

 

[timeos2]

How good?

Who said most T/S news are bad these days ? It takes real optimists to launch a Holiday Inn Club Vacations resort in overbuilt Orlando that will include 2,412 villas and a 1,400-acre golf and water park at an Orange Lake development just outside Disney World.

According to the media Orange Lake Resorts will sell T/S intervals for Holiday Inn Club Vacations under a contract with InterContinental Hotels. Future plans call for adding existing Orange Lake resorts in Panama City, Fla.; Ascutney, Vt.; and Lake Geneva, Wis., to the new Holiday Inn time-share portfolio by early 2009.

Just wonder: Will the banks continue to provide credit for these developments ?

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/business_tourism_aviation/2008/12/holiday-inn-bra.html

K

They aren't building that new- it is the renaming of the existing OLCC resort.

 

[littlestar]

Hi John,

Where did you see the 1,500 figure? I saw 168 at a Call Center, but didn't see the 1,500 figure. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place.

Thanks.

 

[timeos2]

Hi John,

Where did you see the 1,500 figure? I saw 168 at a Call Center, but didn't see the 1,500 figure. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place.

Thanks.

The news report states 168 but an inside source tells me that a complete call center - 1,500 jobs - is being eliminated. That may end up being the wrong number as I made the first post based on that information. I saw the news report later (thus the second post) but they do note in that report that no one officially commented on it. So for now its 168 for sure and potentially 1,500. In any case not a good sign. What a bad time to hear you are being laid off (not that anytime is good but Christmas week? Yikes!)

 

[littlestar]

The news report states 168 but an inside source tells me that a complete call center - 1,500 jobs - is being eliminated. That may end up being the wrong number as I made the first post based on that information. I saw the news report later (thus the second post) but they do note in that report that no one officially commented on it. So for now its 168 for sure and potentially 1,500. In any case not a good sign. What a bad time to hear you are being laid off (not that anytime is good but Christmas week? Yikes!)

No, kidding, a terrible week to be laid off. My husband's company had another layoff this week and upper and middle management positions were cut. Also, Eli Lilly in Indianapolis laid off management this last week. I remember years ago if you had a job at Lilly, you were set for life.

 

[bnoble]

I had a meeting with an executive at Con-Way Freight today. If I'm remembering correctly, their volume was down from 62,000 trucks dispatched per day to about 50,000. They let about 1,400 people go, some as many as ten years with the company. That's an 8% reduction in force.

 

[Dave M]

The actual number of Marriott people that were laid off was 173, nowhere close to 1,500. No sales people were laid off. Although a lot of call center people were let go, there are still many Owner Services people available to take our calls.

 

[dioxide45]

The news report states 168 but an inside source tells me that a complete call center - 1,500 jobs - is being eliminated. That may end up being the wrong number as I made the first post based on that information. I saw the news report later (thus the second post) but they do note in that report that no one officially commented on it. So for now its 168 for sure and potentially 1,500. In any case not a good sign. What a bad time to hear you are being laid off (not that anytime is good but Christmas week? Yikes!)

So Marriott didn't announce the 1500 job cuts as you indicate in your original post? I think it is irresponsible to make the claim

Plus Marriott announced a 1500 person layoff of "club" employees and closure of a call center in Orlando

when it came from a "source" instead of a news release. Then back it up with

So for now its 168 for sure and potentially 1,500

as if you were attempting to back up the original claim and still give it merit, when it has none.

I work in a downsizing industry and there are rumors all the time, even the news agencies get the numbers wrong, but the difference of 173 and 1500 is pretty big.

I think the news report indicated that the 168 (originally mentioned on the Orlando TV news) was about half of that call center staff. So if they go after 1500 jobs they would have to hit their hotel business also.

If they close their entire call center, then the only option is that they outsource those jobs to somewhere, possibly India, or integrate it in to one of their other call centers. They need someone to answer the phones unless they close down business all together. Marriott is a large company and I don't know the size of their call centers, but I would think 1500 people make up much of their call center employees across all divisions.

 

[camachinist]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/orl-timeshare1908dec19,0,2661728.story

Looks like the 173 was in addition to 81 in November and the call center was originally staffed to ~650. If accurate, that's still a pretty substantial marketing reduction IMO.

Pat

 

[timeos2]

So Marriott didn't announce the 1500 job cuts as you indicate in your original post? I think it is irresponsible to make the claim when it came from a "source" instead of a news release. Then back it up with as if you were attempting to back up the original claim and still give it merit, when it has none.

If they close their entire call center, then the only option is that they outsource those jobs to somewhere, possibly India, or integrate it in to one of their other call centers. They need someone to answer the phones unless they close down business all together. Marriott is a large company and I don't know the size of their call centers, but I would think 1500 people make up much of their call center employees across all divisions.

While I don't know what the final number will be so far the source was right that it happened, the number is on the way up (admittedly only 173 from 168 but that is up) and no one in power has said "that's all there will be". The source states that the whole call center will be closed. It is just a rumor now but that is what was said. Time will tell.

 

[dioxide45]

While I don't know what the final number will be so far the source was right that it happened, the number is on the way up (admittedly only 173 from 168 but that is up) and no one in power has said "that's all there will be". The source states that the whole call center will be closed. It is just a rumor now but that is what was said. Time will tell.

I don't disagree one bit. The industry is definitely going through a consolidation and reduction. You will never hear from any company "that's all there will be". In this economy, no one can make an employee any kind of guaranty. If they do, they are opening themselves up to liability down the road.

Marriott may likely lay off 1500 employees and may close the call center in Orlando. If they do they have to absorb those processes somewhere else. They can't just stop answering the phones.

The issue I had was that your OP indicated that

Plus Marriott announced a 1500 person layoff of "club" employees and closure of a call center in Orlando.

. This was derived from an inside source and not any kind of announcement Marriott made. It should have been stated as such.

 

[icydog]

The news report states 168 but an inside source tells me that a complete call center - 1,500 jobs - is being eliminated. That may end up being the wrong number as I made the first post based on that information. I saw the news report later (thus the second post) but they do note in that report that no one officially commented on it. So for now its 168 for sure and potentially 1,500. In any case not a good sign. What a bad time to hear you are being laid off (not that anytime is good but Christmas week? Yikes!)

Look at this link. They will be removing 650 jobs in total by January.

 

[Dave M]

I think you read that linked article incorrectly. It seems to say that of the total of 650 that work at the call center, 173 will be laid off by the first week of January, as first mentioned in my first post in this thread. I don't see anything that suggests that all 650 will be laid off.

 

[icydog]

I think you read that linked article incorrectly. It seems to say that of the total of 650 that work at the call center, 173 will be laid off by the first week of January, as first mentioned in my first post in this thread. I don't see anything that suggests that all 650 will be laid off.


Dave, You're right again!!!!

 

[timeos2]

Not all in one place

Hi John,

Where did you see the 1,500 figure? I saw 168 at a Call Center, but didn't see the 1,500 figure. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place.

Thanks.

It appears the number is in fact rising as I was informed it would. Not all in Orlando but here is more

Still not 1,500 but I'll bet when all is done it will be at least that high. All the big developers are slashing costs and people as sales, as well as rentals, have completely tanked.

 

[skimble]

My own curiosity... what would happen if one of the Big Points chains failed?

HGVC, Marriott, Wyndham, and more.... are all tied to Points.
If the parent company were to fail, what would be the effect on the owners?

 

[dioxide45]

HGVC, Marriott, Wyndham, and more.... are all tied to Points.
If the parent company were to fail, what would be the effect on the owners?

Marriott is not a points based TS product. While they have MR points, that is seperate from their TS entity. If they were to fail, owners would need to find another management company or run the resorts themselves. They would still have use of their deeded week/unit.

 

[funtime]

In retrospect, the timeshare developers were probably growing too fast if they could not keep their own paper. In other words, they should rebuild their model and keeping the financing in house. If that slows their development then so be it. The big three need to slow down since everyone else in that sector is also slowing down - new homes, new construction for commercial purposes and hotels. It would allow them to concentrate on keeping their brand reputation high and keeping what they have in top notch condition. In other words, it may not be a bad thing for them to slow down and catch their breath. Funtime

 

[e.bram]

I think it is all over but the screaming and the shouting. With the economy and dearth of credit the TS developers are all going belly up. Look what has happened to the automobile manufacturers and we need cars. We can exist without timeshares.
If the economy doesn't improve soon(I don't think it will) existing TSes will fail as stressed owners don't pay their MFs causing in rise in MFs and a death spiral for many TSes.

 

[Lawlar]

Puff of Smoke

HGVC, Marriott, Wyndham, and more.... are all tied to Points.
If the parent company were to fail, what would be the effect on the owners?

If Marriott, or a similar company, were to liquidate in a Chapter 7 bankruptcy, your rewards points would probably go up in smoke. If they reorgnize in Chaper 11, the points might be allowed to survive (subject to court and creditor approval).

Similar to the Airlines, they filed for reorganization, but our points are still valid.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Say The Timeshare Companies Liquidate. What Then ?

No more "new" timeshare units is a far cry from no more timeshares.

All the resorts that are mostly or partly built -- & all the units at all those resorts -- are still there. Going out of business won't change that.

When the timeshare companies liquidate in bankruptcy, their creditors no doubt will take over all unsold inventory. After that happens, do you suppose the creditors will sell off the remaining completed units Wal*Mart style ?

Or will they simply keep on applying the high-pressure, arm-twisting, guilt-tripping, psychologically manipulative sales tactics that have given the timeshare companies their semi-seamy reputation ?

In any case, all the completed & sold out & independently managed timeshare resorts can just keep on chugging along as always -- although they'll need to employ thrifty resort managers, adopt hard-nosed collection practices, & keep on providing great value for money in order to keep their loyal owners loyal -- loyal, that is, as demonstrated by faithfully paying those annual fees.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Kola]

No more "new" timeshare units is a far cry from no more timeshares.

All the resorts that are mostly or partly built -- & all the units at all those resorts -- are still there. Going out of business won't change that.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

.......VERY good point. Millions of T/S units that have been fully or partially sold out will continue to be owner-occupied, or exchanged, traded, rented and some will be offered for sale. The market will still be there, perhaps more orderly than the one we know now. And, of course, most developers will continue to manage those resorts they built, - earning a handsome profit while making sure they can get back into the business of building more as markets dictate.

K.