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Maybe I just dodged the Westgate Bullet...

GooseVR1

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Let's start by saying "I'm so glad I found this forum."

My wife and I were at the Westgate Park City yesterday, on our last day of visiting the in-laws. As a favor to them, we had agreed to attend the "90 minute timeshare pitch" for free lift tickets. Needless-to-say, you know what happened next.

There we were, being pressured into the deal. Sales person, manager, closer - you know the drill. It was a "developer's first incentive" - so floating dates, anytime during the year, everything sounds great.

If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is - this was yesterday 3/26.

So they pushed hard, and after 3-4 hours I was giving in. Problem is, I had a flight to catch and they didn't push hard enough. They were having a hard time getting the deed drafted up for my signature, so I had told them I'm either leaving now and you're going to mail me the forms overnight to sign...or this deal is dead. They let me go - and I haven't been home yet to see if I actually have some documents to sign.

What I did sign - I guess I signed a floor plan, or a picture of one. I signed and initialed a "proposal review," saying I got a copy of the property report (which I "didn't" - they never actually gave it to me, but when the clerk needed to ask their supervisor something I took photos of all the documents laying out, which was the propery report and the receipt of property report form). And I signed their loan application.

...I've read the forums to the point where I know what to do if I want to recind - but I've never actually signed a contract or deed yet (so perhaps I've dodged this bullet completely).

The offer is supposed to be Westgate Park City, 1 week, 1BR Grand, Red Ski, 2 weeks exchange, 10 getaways with II, bunch of amentities (like personal concierce) which I assume only you get at the Westgate Park City, for $37k. (Yeah, now I know the deal isn't very good at all).

I don't think I've technically commited to buying the timeshare (even though they already tried to hit my CC with the down payment).

Thoughts on how to proceed?
 

Passepartout

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You are probably OK, but since Wastegate are noted weasels, you might just put a challenge on the CC so they can't tap that, and send a "Just in case there's confusion, I'm rescinding" letter. Include any numbers that might be used to reference the deal. Keep originals, send copies. Send it certified return receipt. Small price to pay for the peace of mind.

Oh, you can buy these ski weeks for pennies on the dollar.

We're glad you found us. Welcome!

Jim
 

strandlover

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Phew! That is a close call.

What's to stop them from shoving the deed through the process if they have your personal information? It's been known to happen.

I would make doubly sure all is properly addressed before the rescission period exprires.

Best of luck to you.
 

theo

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A few thoughts and observations...

<snip> They were having a hard time getting the deed drafted up for my signature...<snip>

What I did sign - I guess I signed a floor plan, or a picture of one. I signed and initialed a "proposal review," <snip>

<snip> And I signed their loan application. <snip>

<snip> ...I've never actually signed a contract or deed yet (so perhaps I've dodged this bullet completely).

I don't think I've technically commited to buying the timeshare (even though they already tried to hit my CC with the down payment).

I don't tend to believe that it would have been a "deed" being prepared for you to sign. In point of fact, buyer signature is generally not required (or present) on deeds in most states to begin with (only seller). Moreover, if you were financing this purchase (you specifically mention having signed a loan application) then I'm inclined to think that the developer and /or note holder would perhaps hold the deed until such time as your financing obligation was later satisfied.

That all said, it is certainly evident that you signed something, but it's not at all clear (...not to me, anyhow) just what that "something" might have been. If you signed a loan application, then your intent to purchase (as evidenced by your own loan application signature) would seem quite overtly and clearly expressed. If the sales weasels have already tried to charge your credit card for the deposit (using credit card info which you presumably provided voluntarily), it would certainly appear that they share this belief...

Did you at least get copies of whatever documents actually bear your signature?

You may very well need the advice of competent legal counsel (and no, I'm not providing it or intending or trying in any way to do so here). That much clearly said, to be on the safe side I would at least recommend believing that the rescission clock started ticking the moment you signed whatever it is that you signed. Whatever you do from this point forward, make very sure that you meet the state deadline for mailing out a signed letter of cancellation, retaining a copy and obtaining a date stamped receipt from the USPS for the actual mailing date. If you snooze, you can lose...

I wish you luck; I think you're going to need some. This situation sounds a bit sticky and the involvement of Westgate Weasels in the matter provides little (i.e., no) comfort or reassurance that your best interests will be considered by the hungry parasites involved. :shrug:
 
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GooseVR1

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I don't tend to believe that it would have been a "deed" being prepared for you to sign. In point of fact, buyer signature is generally not required (or present) on deeds in most states to begin with (only seller). Moreover, if you were financing this purchase (you specifically mention having signed a loan application) then I'm inclined to think that the note holder would perhaps hold the deed until such time as your financing obligation was later satisfied.

That all said, it is certainly evident that you signed something, but it's not at all clear (...not to me, anyhow) just what that "something" might have been. If you signed a loan application, then your intent to purchase (as evidenced by your own loan application signature) would seem quite overtly and clearly expressed. If the sales weasels have already tried to charge your credit card for the deposit, it would certainly appear that they share this particular belief as well.

Did you at least get copies of whatever documents actually bear your signature?

You may very well need the advice of competent legal counsel (and no, I'm not providing it or intending or trying in any way to do so here). That much clearly said, to be on the safe side I would at least recommend believing that the rescission clock started ticking the moment you signed whatever it is that you signed. Whatever you do from this point forward, make very sure that you meet the state deadline for mailing out a letter of cancellation, obtaining a date stamped receipt from the USPS for the mailing date. If you snooze, you will lose...

I wish you luck; I think you're going to need some. This sounds a bit sticky and the involvement of Westgate in the matter provides little (i.e., no) comfort or reassurance that your best interests are being considered by the hungry sales weasels involved. :shrug:

Thanks Theo - I actually have very little in terms of copies of what I've signed, as the pressure to catch a flight more or less got in the way of common sense. However, I did manage to take photos of all documents bearing my signature with my iPhone...

I know I have 5 days - and assume the clock is ticking. I may or may not have documents at home waiting for my signature; assuming the worst - I don't. So the best I'll be able to do is send in photos of the documents I signed, and including in writing that I recind the offer and require all deposits be refunded and any financing requested be immediately cancelled. I'll photo-document everything and send it out certified mail w/ return receipt. I think that's the best I can do right now...

Doing my best to chalk this up to a bad sales experience, and not throwing the "baby out with the bathwater." There's probably a good way to do timeshares and vacation while stretching your dollars - and this seems a great place to find out how.
 

timeos2

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You indeed had (may have) a bullet to dodge. Take whatever steps are necessary to get a rescind letter properly sent & receipt requested to be SURE they won't move ahead with this grossly overpriced purchase. IF you absolutely want that Wastegate - and there are plenty of others in the area to choose from that aren't run by "The Worst Timeshare Organization In The World"tm that you can buy for much less and be far happier as an owner.

Really, take no chances. Rescind now so even if it wasn't a "real" contract to purchase you are safely out. No need for attorney or legal council just rescind and you are completely out. Good luck & congratulations on finding us.
 

siesta

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Depending what you signed, you may have not dodged anything yet.

It would have almost been better if you bought, at least then you know where you stood and would have all the necessary documents and specific information to rescind. Now you have to hope they dont somehow push this throughh, and by the time you "find out" your rescission period has passed. Of course they can claim they have your authorization and signature (depending what you signed of course).
 

theo

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Nope...

<snip>... at least then you know where you stood and would have all the necessary documents and specific information to rescind. Now you have to hope they dont somehow push this throughh, and by the time you "find out" your rescission period has passed.<snip>

Not so. No "documents" need be in possession to invoke and exercise the rescission rights clearly provided by applicable state law. All the OP needs to do is prepare and sign a letter simply stating, in essence:

I hereby rescind any and all purchase documents and loan application materials which I initiated at XYX resort in Park City, Utah on (insert date here), as is my right under applicable state law. (Signature here).
Period, amen.

Regardless of what the developer sends (and regardless of when they do so), state law prevails.
The OP need only make absolutely certain that he beats the cancellation deadline defined by the state law (Utah, in this case) rescission period, without waiting for (and regardless of) anything from Westgate.

P.S. The developer is legally obligated to process the cancellation and refund any deposit money if the state deadline has been met. A developer is not required to send any other form of notice or confirmation beyond just effecting the requested cancellation and /or refunding any deposit money (usually within 45 days, max).
 
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siesta

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Not so. No "documents" need be in possession to legally effect the rescission rights clearly provided by applicable state law. All the OP needs to do is prepare and sign a letter simply stating, in essence:

I hereby rescind (cancel) any and all purchase and /or or loan proceeedings which I initiated at XYX resort on (insert date here), as is my right under applicable state law. (Signature here).
Period, amen.

Regardless of what the developer sends (and regardless of when they do so), state law ultimately prevails. All the OP has to do is make absolutely certain that he beats the deadline defined by the particular state's (Utah, in this instance) rescission period, without waiting for (and regardless of) anything from Westgate.
certainly, i was merely suggesting it helps when you have rescission instructions (always recommend to follow them exactly), as well as where to mail it to, and even maybe a contract number. And the main point I was driving home was if they bought, theyd know it and can rescind with confidence. This whole "i signed something, but not sure if I bought" is not ideal, time is ticking.

Thanks by the way for the "refresher" on state law, when I'm not on tug I do try to make a living in litigation. ;)
 
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theo

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It's a big reader pool here...

Thanks by the way for the "refresher" on state law, when I'm not on tug I do try to make a living in litigation. ;)

Not so for most others here, so the sharing of information is hopefully of some benefit to others without a legal background...;)
 

GooseVR1

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Perfect - this all happened yesterday and state law is 5 days, so I will prepare tonight and post-mark via certified mail tomorrow. I'm sure with the stuff on this forum (and online) I can do much better than this.
 

GooseVR1

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Done deal - just postmarked via USPS Certified Mail w/ Returned Receipt.

Here's the UT Law:

(3) Any contract or agreement of disposition for an interest in subdivided lands may be rescinded by the purchaser without cause by midnight of the fifth calendar day after the execution of the contract or agreement of disposition. This right of rescission may not be waived by agreement. The contract or agreement of disposition shall state in boldface type on the signature page above all signatures: YOU HAVE THE OPTION TO CANCEL YOUR CONTRACT OR AGREEMENT OF DISPOSITION BY NOTICE TO THE SELLER UNTIL MIDNIGHT OF THE FIFTH CALENDAR DAY FOLLOWING THE SIGNING OF THE CONTRACT OR AGREEMENT. WRITTEN NOTICE OF CANCELLATION MUST BE PERSONALLY DELIVERED OR SENT BY CERTIFIED MAIL, POSTMARKED BY MIDNIGHT OF THE FIFTH CALENDAR DAY FOLLOWING THE SIGNING OF THE CONTRACT OR AGREEMENT, TO THE SELLER AT: (Address of Seller).

http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE57/htm/57_11_000500.htm

So I read it I did have an "agreement of disposition," as I suppose one can argue that my signature on the loan application and proposal review can be construed as an "agreement to purchase."

And everyone's right on - they never "sent" anything in the mail to me. They actually called and left a message to call them back with a credit card number to set up reoccuring payments. Apparently without that they can't generate the paperwork to send me. What a stall tactic...

I also looked the manager in the eye yesterday and asked if I could sell or rent my getaways - she totally said yes. With a straight face.

I learned my lesson. Thanks TUG!
 

wcfr1

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Oh, you can buy these ski weeks for pennies on the dollar.

Jim

How many pennies?

Since I own here I watch pricing for Westgate Park City on many sites. Please show me a winter ski week here that can be had for pennies on the dollar.

Resale is obviously less than retail but not pennies here. Westgate in Orlando yes, but not here. Smaller, older less desirable ski places maybe.
 

Passepartout

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How many pennies?

Resale is obviously less than retail but not pennies here.

OK, so not single pennies on the dollar, but certainly for less than retail. I am not mincing numbers, and don't follow Westgate's resale value as you do. It's Westgate's retail sales practices that I take issue with, and hence, encouraged the OP to rescind.

Jim
 
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