mayan palace resorts are the gold of the mexican t-s world and the reasons why!

[sally]

ellis and others

I feel like A broken record...As I stated on another thread,the mayan chain is the newest, growing,largest most luxurious resort chain in latin america.We feel that is what we want to be a part of.Large amounts of wealth are being transformed into what I think is the best places to vacation, more money ,more new resorts,more money more ammenities.Follow the money! As far as trade goes.. WE WILL NEVER BE SHAFTED OUT OF OUR GRAND UNIT!,that we bought from the developer.Owners are always at the top of the list.I repeat..CAN ANY ONE TELL ME OF A GRAND OWNER THAT PURCHASED FROM THE DEVELOPER THAT WAS SHAFTED OUT OF THE GRAND INTO THE REGULAR MAYAN UNITS?...I did not think so.If you look into some of the bitching going on here, you will see that all mayan bookings are rated differently.You will see some are rci exchange, some flex weeks, some e bay rebuys.These are the people bitching.Read the charter that the developer provides at closing.You get what you pay for.I am not concerned about renting or ratings as we use our week each year.We found the best unit in the best resort chain and we are THRILLED with what we puchased.If anyone wants to have a guarantee they will have to pony up the cash as we did.So much for enjoying the mayan grand units on the cheap! If you get lucky and get into these units for what ever reason consider yourself fortunate.Time going forward will make future grand stays even harder to secure.As the sales people and the reputation go...I could care less. There are A lot of worse things in life . THE PROPERTY IS WHAT YOU ARE BUYING and dealing with rci for so many years purchasing the top tier of this resort was the only way to go imho.

sally

 

[Sandy]

After reading through these posts as an interested observer (we will visit Riviera Maya in March as traders), I can only conclude that reasonable minds will always differ.

I agree that the value of any resort does diminish if an owner tries to rent or trade and receives something less than what was paid for or expected. This is why folks buy only the top floor, ocean view, corner unit, etc, etc, so that they are guaranteed to receive this exact unit when they arrive for their planned holiday.

Some resorts will not, or cannot guarantee that the owner will get that precise unit, especially if it is a floating week resort or a points resort. In that case, there might be two or more owners demanding the same unit, and this cannot occur. Someone might have to adjust their expectations.

But RCI exchangers have no such expectation. They are assigned units at the discretion of the resort. Owners have priority as they should.

So the different perspectives reflected in this dialogue only highlight that some of us paid top dollar, some paid regular retail, others paid discounted prices, and some even paid wholesale or liquidation prices for whatever resort we own. We all come to TUG to learn more about timesharing and its many aspects. What all of us have in common, I think, is that we enjoy great vacationing at nice resorts however we achieve this.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

...
But RCI exchangers have no such expectation. They are assigned units at the discretion of the resort. Owners have priority as they should. ...

I have no quibble at all with that. I have stoutly defended this right of resorts to give first priority to accomodating owner requests, and placing exchangers in the units that remain after owner requests are addressed.

That is not the same thing as shunting exchangers off to a different resort after they have been confirmed into another.

 

[CaliDave]

THE PROPERTY IS WHAT YOU ARE BUYING and dealing with rci for so many years purchasing the top tier of this resort was the only way to go imho.
sally

Actually you aren't buying anything. You are renting your Grand Mayan. You own nothing , other then the right to use it for a set number of years. Then its time to get out the wallet again when they screw you over for another huge amount of $$.

I agree with you on one thing.. You do sound like a broken record.
You don't need to keep trying to justify why you bought from the developer. Many other tuggers have made the same mistake, but they aren't in denial.

 

[sally]

calidave

I think it is time for A new forum for me...all I tried to do here is show the other side of the coin as truthfully as I could.You guys just need to look at things from many angles before you cast the stones..sheesh... I am sure glad we dont live in the middle ages


sally

 

[echoal]

I can see MP/GM being selective because I have no problem using my GM week, I did buy from the developer. Even when I owner MP I was able to split my week 1BR and studio back to back for two weeks. I think MP is giving people who bought from the developer first dibs because would you not cater to the big spender first or take your chances with someone who spent $1000 .00 on ebay? Like I said I never had a problem yet with MP. (SFX is my exchange-I am over RCI).
They do know who bought from the developer because when I was going to up grade to GM, the sales guy looked on the computer and knew when I bought and how much we paid. MP is operating no different than the Las Vegas casinos, the whales get super comps limo ride from the airport free room, drinks and more – regular Joe gets a coupon for a buffet.

 

[KarenK]

Echoal -- you mention that developer purchasers should have preference over those who paid 1,000 via eBay?? I don't think that is the way it is supposed to work. I can imagine a scenario at a timeshare where I used to own in the US. It is in the north and members bitched that their fall, winter and spring weeks had to pay for the maintenance of the pool to which they never had access. This is the same thing, IMHO. Every owner should get the same respect. Should there be a separate, less-classy check-in area for eBay or RCI people??

 

[Ellis2ca]

First dibs for big spenders

I can see MP/GM being selective because I have no problem using my GM week, I did buy from the developer. Even when I owned MP I was able to split my week 1BR and studio back to back for two weeks.

I think MP is giving people who bought from the developer first dibs because would you not cater to the big spender first or take your chances with someone who spent $1000 .00 on ebay? Like I said I never had a problem yet with MP. (SFX is my exchange-I am over RCI).

They do know who bought from the developer because when I was going to up grade to GM, the sales guy looked on the computer and knew when I bought and how much we paid. MP is operating no different than the Las Vegas casinos, the whales get super comps limo ride from the airport free room, drinks and more – regular Joe gets a coupon for a buffet.

So if the developer sold to Sally for $20,000 and Sally sells it on E-bay for $1, why should the developer give any less service to Sally's customer than to Sally? The developer got paid fully by Sally, and Sally sold what was hers to somebody else. What does it matter to the developer how much Sally sells it for on e-bay, since it was not stolen from him?

What if Sally bought for $20,000 and sells it for $25,000... are you saying it is right for the Grand Mayan to give better service to that person than to the one who bought on e-bay for $1, because he is a "big spender"?

If Sally bought 50 years for $20,000 and there are 49 years left, would YOU buy it from Sally for $19,000? Would you buy it for $18,000? $12,000? $5,000? $2500? From what you are saying, it is worthless except to the original buyer, so I would not buy it for 10 cents.

I won't get into the Grand Mayan if I buy a resale. Fine. That is understood.

But if I buy, but I can't sell the same privileges that I had, how can I buy from the developer? It makes more sense not to buy at all, it makes more sense to rent from Grand Mayan if I want to go there... then they have to deliver or they can't receive the rent.

How much is Sally's purchase worth today? I think it depreciated about 90% the minute after you bought it.

The developer gets 10% of the original resale price anyways, to change your name on his books. Do you think it is o.k. for the developer to guess who is a big spender and who is not, on the basis of whether or not they bought directly from the developer?

So you are saying that Grand Mayan's obligation to give service is only to the original buyer... So I suggest we should all take this into consideration before we buy at Grand Mayan. You can buy Grand Mayan but you can't sell Grand Mayan, you sell Mayan Palace.

That's fine, if they tell you that in the contract, so you know you will lose 90% of the value of your purchase, if you want to transfer it to anybody else.

Your analogy with Las Vegas is not valid, because it is not a membership. The analogy would be that you bought a membership in a Golf Club for $100,000, and you are welcome to play in the golf course... but you can't sell your membership... If you sell it, whoever buys it from you will not be welcome into the Club House, and can only play golf in the practice golf course.

I'll buy somewhere else. Sally, congratulations, you did a really good purchase, but you will have a hard time selling it if you ever want to sell it. Now I understand why it is 90% depreciated on e-bay... it is not worth anything except to the first buyers.

Sally... 10 or 15 years from now you will be an old customer, and they might not remember that you paid them $20,000... Since your membership is for a floating week, they will have 10 members waiting for each available space... I hope they won't forget that old customers can also stay at Grand Mayan, and not only recent customers.

This is going to be like another "Royal Sunset" fiasco, except it is more luxurious than Royal Sunset, and maybe also more luxurious than Royal Resorts, but it is the same sleazy type of operation. You just watch and see. When they have oversold by 500% Sally will finally understand.

Ellis

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

So if the developer sold to Sally for $20,000 and Sally sells it on E-bay for $1, why should the developer give any less service to Sally's customer than to Sally? The developer got paid fully by Sally, and Sally sold what was hers to somebody else. What does it matter to the developer how much Sally sells it for on e-bay, since it was not stolen from him? ...
Ellis

Ellis - thanks for so eloquently composing the post I was thinking of as well.

The Mayan developer are pretty obviously slimy. Through this whole discussion I keep thinking that if you go to bed with a slug, you shouldn't be surprixed if someday you wake up and discover that you've been slimed.

 

[california-bighorn]

When you buy a re-sale the resort rarely, if ever, has any idea what the re-sale price was. They only have a record that ownership has been transferred and what the original cost was. When I bought two Mexican timeshares on ebay the only items sent to transfer ownership were the signed over membership agreement, a letter stating the membership has been purchased and a check for payment of the transfer fee. During a recent owner update presentation, the salesperson looked at the original sales contract for $12,995 and mentioned we got a very good deal. I couldn't bring myself to tell her how little we actually paid.
Point to be made, I don't believe owners who bought from the developer are given priority treatment. In fact, we own several timeshares we purchsed on re-sale and have been treated very well at every one of them. How would the staff have any idea of who you bought from or for how much? I'm starting to sense there's a little paranoia out there.
Marty

 

[Pat H]

I bought from the MP and I don't think that owners who bought resale should be treated any differently than owners who bought direct. An owner is an owner.

 

[5infam]

Read the charter that the developer provides at closing.You get what you pay for.

Sally, are you saying that the Mayan Resorts, specifically the Grand Mayan (I believe this is where you own) have it in writing that only owners that purchased direct will have priorities, and that resale owners will be at a disadvantage? I have been reading a lot in the Mexico forum as I would like to go to Cancun in April as well as even buy in Mexico. However, I am trying to get a handle on the pros and cons of owning in Mexico and this would be an issue to consider. Sally, by your description (and that of others) it sounds like the Mayan resorts are a great place to stay and possibly own - but I am trying to get my arms around how the Mayan system works. I own Disney Vacation Club (points system) where I bought resale and also developer points. With DVC, there is 100% no difference. I just bought a Marriott in Maui resale, with the only difference being that I can't trade in my week for Marriott Reward points, which I think is a bad deal for the Maui maintenance costs anyway, so for me no big deal. But if the Mayan resorts put in writing that any resale owners will be treated poorly, then I would not want to buy Mayan resorts resale or from the developer.

Please note, I am not trying to bash anyone or their opinions, I am just trying to learn from these posts so I can make an informed decision. Any comments/clarifications are most appreciated.

 

[M&M]

I have to agree

I have to agree with Ellis and the others. If your purchase isn't worth the money for someone to buy it from you (because they don't have the same priority as you did), the worth of that week has greatly diminished.

I bought two weeks at the Royal Sands (resale) for less than Sally paid for her GM week. I get treated just like somone who paid a lot more directly from the developer. I also can tell you exactly what unit I will be in when I go. If I rent it out or when I sell, those that rent or buy from me will have that same unit for that same week and will be treated just as I get treated.

I've seen picture of the GM and it looks great. Some day I may rent a week there, but I wouldn't want to buy there.

JMHO,
Mike

 

[quiltergal]

10% Transfer Fee

Even if you decided GM was for you and you bought it for $1 on Ebay you would still have to pay a 10% of original purchase price transfer fee to MR. So even if you gave it away the recipient would have to pay at least $2K. I for one would look at the Royals, Club Regina or Pueblo Bonita before giving MP a single dime.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

I have to agree with Ellis and the others. If your purchase isn't worth the money for someone to buy it from you (because they don't have the same priority as you did), the worth of that week has greatly diminished.

I bought two weeks at the Royal Sands (resale) for less than Sally paid for her GM week. I get treated just like somone who paid a lot more directly from the developer. I also can tell you exactly what unit I will be in when I go. If I rent it out or when I sell, those that rent or buy from me will have that same unit for that same week and will be treated just as I get treated.

I've seen picture of the GM and it looks great. Some day I may rent a week there, but I wouldn't want to buy there.

JMHO,
Mike

It's like buying a new Honda from a dealer, and the sales contract requires that you to bring the car back to the dealership before you sell it to another person.

Then, when you bring the car by, the dealer takes out a sledge hammer and smashes the rear fenders. Then the dealer gives you the keys and says, "ok, you can transfer title now."

You ask why the dealer did that, and the dealer says, "We do that to discourage people from buyng used Hondas from private sellers. If they buy a Honda, we want them to buy a new one from us - or one of the used ones we have on our lot."

 

[Ellis2ca]

About the pros and cons of owning in Mexico...

I have been reading a lot in the Mexico forum as I would like to go to Cancun in April as well as even buy in Mexico. However, I am trying to get a handle on the pros and cons of owning in Mexico and this would be an issue to consider.

Please don't mix "Mexico" into this. There are no better timeshare resorts on Planet Earth than the Royal Resorts of Can Cun, and they are Mexican, and in Mexico. I have never thought of the pros and cons of owning a timeshare in the United States because some timeshares in the U.S. are scams or go broke or have a low index of customer satisfaction.

That the Grand Mayan and the Sunset and maybe others have a well deserved terrible reputation is not a reason for you not to buy in Mexico, if you buy in a good timeshare. Do your research on TUG before you buy, that's what it is here for.

You have already learned enough about "the Grand Mayan" and the "Mayan Palace"... They oversell, and they rent Villas like a hotel. If they rented out too many Villas as hotel rooms for a higher rate than the maintainance fee, they have been known to boot somebody out, and that somebody might be you.

If you are coming to Mexico in April, I advise you to read the TUG Top Ten before you get here... See if you might find one, or two, or three, or four timeshares in Mexico which are in the Top Ten in the world... (Actually, you only have to look at the "Top Seven" of the Top Ten...) See which they are (they all have a similar word in their names) and read the TUG reviews about them, before you blow your money on buying any timeshare anywhere else.

If there is a one to one relation between the number of members and the number of timeshare Villas you can't go wrong... or if they have a floating system or a point system, and the management honors its reservations to the member after they are made, I suppose that is o.k. too.

From what I have already read on this forum I would not risk having a problem on my vacation by trading into the "Grand" Mayans anywhere, anymore, even though I know they are very luxurious and have excellent service once you are in, if you are not one of the ones who was booted out...

Once is a mistake... Many times, as has already been reported, is not a mistake... it is a way of doing business, and I am afraid to do business with them.

- Ellis

 

[JEFF H]

Mayan Palace does have some very lovely resorts.
Their sleezy Sales policy,poor treatment of exchange guests and 10% transfer fees however Have caused me to avoid the Mayan Palace resorts.
I refuse to support a business that operates in this manner.

 

[sally]

5 in fam

Please do not let the disgruntled here sway any decision you might be making. In my view there are 2 types of people... 1)A person who buys something she knows (by comparison of 40 or more top properties)that is superior in many ways to the others.This would be me..and 2)A person who looks at life in an all or nothing manner. such as any here.These types often throw the baby out with the bath water! Do not take my word for it..go on a tour of the Grand mayan palace and say the royals resorts and you compare.Also resales and exchanges are in a different class, as the home resort computers, signal WHEN an owner has purchased from the developer ...WHERE he puchased and what type of product,from what salesperson. Surely if the resorts GRAND mayan units were over booked,the person who exchanged in or purchased (second hand, and they DO know this! ) would be the ones to get downgraded into the regular mayan units.

sally

 

[california-bighorn]

Let me name 2 other type of people.......those who can make informed rational decisions based on past performance and those who can't.
Marty

 

[Pat H]

You have already learned enough about "the Grand Mayan" and the "Mayan Palace"... They oversell, and they rent Villas like a hotel. If they rented out too many Villas as hotel rooms for a higher rate than the maintainance fee, they have been known to boot somebody out, and that somebody might be you.

- Ellis

Ellis, where do you get your information from? There has never been any evidence that MP has oversold it's resorts. Care to back up your claim?

 

[5infam]

Ellis,

I am not saying anything negative about Mexico, nor am I equating the practices of one resort chain to the entire country. The fact is, this is the "Mexico Forum" and I am trying to learn about all of the different options in this country that I have never had the luxury of vacationing in (I go to Tijuana or Ensenada on day trips because we live close by, but I know this is not the Mexico that all of you timeshare owners know and love at your beautiful resorts). All timeshare systems have pros and cons and I am trying to learn what those are. I can completely understand your concerns with the Mayan resorts. The way they are treating traders (if it is them and not RCI - which doesn't seem to be answered on the TUG boards yet) seems horrible to me and would preclude me from doing business with them as well. However, I have heard and seen a lot of things said on this board that weren't 100% accurate (everyone makes mistakes - including me), so I was asking Sally, or anyone else for that matter, if the Mayan resort chain actually puts it in writing that you will be treated differently if you buy resale. Since resale often makes the most financial sense (again my opinion), then no matter how lovely the Mayan resorts are, I would cross them off my list. However, I like to stay in 5 star resorts, and when buying, I want to buy the nicest resort and system program possible for the destination I am looking to go to long term. I also want to learn all about the Royals as well - so hopefully I will get that opportunity here on TUG before my April trip - but the Mayan resorts are getting a lot of play here on TUG right now.

Also resales and exchanges are in a different class, as the home resort computers, signal WHEN an owner has purchased from the developer ...WHERE he puchased and what type of product,from what salesperson. Surely if the resorts GRAND mayan units were over booked,the person who exchanged in or purchased (second hand, and they DO know this! ) would be the ones to get downgraded into the regular mayan units.
sally

Sally, you mentioned the Mayan charter in this post and in others, again - is it actually in writing that there is a different level of service that will be given to direct purchasers vs. non-direct? I am only pushing this point because you mentioned it several times and I really want to know. If you have the verbiage, maybe you can post it (that would be great so we could see their exact words). What you are saying in the quote above is something that I have heard over and over from people throughout the years and have found it not to be true - at least in the cases where I own and that would be Marriott and DVC. As a matter of fact, Marriott sales people have told me that if I buy resale, they will see that on the computer when I check in and/or when I make reservations, and I will not get any of my preferences and will not get to book rooms at high season. I find this laughable and completely untrue - which is all part of the timeshare sales tactics that are all too common, irregardless of resort (sales people are sales people and often don't represent their companies well). Sally, you have also asked the question several times (which has gone unanswered) for owners to post if they have had any troubles with the Mayan resorts and getting downgraded to another resort. So far, no responses, so with all of the resale purchasers on TUG, I would think that the resale folks are being treated the same as you are, even though you bought direct. Maybe I am wrong to conclude this, so I would love to hear the experiences of the resale buyer with the Mayan resorts (you have to be out there). At the end of the day, it seems clear that exchangers are getting booted out of the Grand Mayan - which is terrible and should be stopped. I have no dealings with RCI - but if I were trading with them, I would fire them on the spot and go somewhere else. It does not appear that this is a problem with SFX and the Mayan resorts, which has me leaning in the direction that RCI may be the bad guys.

Please note I am not trying to offend anyone here, I am truly just trying to learn and make the best decision for me and my family. TIA for for clarifying any of my questions.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

5infam:

You are doing an excellent job of asking questions, collecting information, and seeking backup for clams made by others.

Happy hunting!

 

[Noni]

I agree. Hopefully, you (and the rest of us) can get some concrete answers not based on emotions, but facts.

I will admit, though, at times, this thread has been a "hoot".

We don't "own" in Mexico, but I'll stay tuned in.

Joan

 

[Ellis2ca]

Evidence that the Mayan Palace has oversold its resorts...

Ellis, where do you get your information from? There has never been any evidence that MP has oversold it's resorts. Care to back up your claim?

Hello Pat... Let me first start by saying that I don't know for sure that they have oversold their resorts, because I am not their accountant and I don't have access to their books... But since it is a floating week system, unless they oversell, they can't get all their Villas booked. I will explain:

In a floating weeks system, there is not a one to one correspondence of number of members to (number of Villas times the number of weeks).

Since not all weeks are equally desireable, they must have more members than the number of Villa-Weeks that they have available, or else the low season weeks will not be fully occupied. This is bad for the Resort, because they will lose the maintainance fee, and also their restaurants and shops will do less business. So they MUST oversell, or they won't have 100% occupancy.

So, for example, if the resort has 100 Villas, it only has 100 villas x 52 weeks that they can deliver, but they need to have more than 5200 members who would like these 5200 Villa-weeks, because you can never get 5200 members to voluntarily occupy exactly all 5200 Villa-weeks.

So... They have to oversell... they MUST oversell.

They can sell 100 Villas for 52 weeks to 5200 persons... or to 7000... or to 10,000... or to 20,000 persons... Everybody is only buying a glorified discount card, with which they hope they can make a reservation to the season and type of Villa that they dream they are entitled to rent IF THEY CAN MAKE THE RESERVATION...

But since more people want to go in January and February and March and April, and June, July and August, and fewer want to go in May and September and October and November and the first half of December, MANY members are necessarily going to want the same weeks, and the same Grand Villas... and not all of them can have their wish.

So there is the seed of discord built into the system. Sally imagines it will never affect her because she thinks she paid top dollar, and that they are Gentlemen... And they might want to give Sally her wish, but they can't give everybody who paid them top dollar their wish, so some of them are going to have to be sacrificed. Sally does not have a contract that says she is entitled to a guaranteed week, not even in LOW SEASON...

There are no guaranteed reservations in the floating week or points system.

When the Grand Mayan is oversold as it has to be, someday, and 100% reserved in the season when Sally would like to go... then they will offer her to stay at the Mayan Palace, or in two smaller suites, or however they can manage to please her, if they can please her... And if they can't please her, that will be HER TOUGH LUCK, not theirs.

Now... The way to predict the future is to look at the past. History repeats itself. This is not a new company... They have had the Mayan Palace and the Sea Gardens in Acapulco and Puerto Vallarta, so they have a history.

So now... do they have a history of complaints that people bought at Mayan Palace and couldn't get reservations at Mayan Palace?

Do they have a history of anybody buying a 2 bedroom Grand Villa and not being able to find one, and they are offered 2 separate smaller pieces?

Or was anybody offered to go to Sea Gardens (downgraded...) instead?

Has there been any history of anybody renting at Mayan Palace and being sent to Sea Gardens?

Has there been any history of anybody being downgraded from Grand Mayan to Mayan Palace?

If so, then you can guess that the reason why it happened is because they oversold and cannot satisfy 100% of their members 100% of the time.

- Ellis

 

[sally]

ellis(YOU RASCAL)andT R(aka nelson)

everyone wants to live in utopia!....I, on the the other hand, look at the system ,look at the product ,weigh the risks, and hope for the best.There are no sure, no fail things in life..only opportunities!We believe that, having an owner of a (developer purchased Grand mayan week),bitch to the world about being downgraded,would be the kiss of death for this corporation.They know this and will avoid this at all cost.(BUSINESS 101) But...they will play the overbooked game with all the rest of the customer accesses to thier resort. Kind of turns your E BAY deal on its head, .. hmm..and...THEY DO KNOW WHO BUYS SECOND HAND!!(remember the 10% reinstatement fee..duh..) Where do you think they make the most of thier $$$$$? of course from what you savy e-bayers call (sally the fool.) It is a business, plain and simple.You can talk morals all you want, and refuse to patronize this or that ,but in the end ,you have ...WHAT IS....You really have to look at the world not as you would like it to be..but as it is....(Think of this as you buy your gizmo made with slave- child labor from wallmart or most all other stores now,deplorable imho) A very hard crappy nugget of truth, I think......Oh and 5 infam...the charter will say every thing in writing BUT,what you are looking for, they would be choking business flow if they did divulge that developer purchased owners get special treatment over others. Remember very few sure things in life, just better risks to take then others. AND by the way, the mayan family started with accupolco,witch really is not that old at all,(as resorts go)and now has five AAA resorts with very similar features.(With a 6th on the way).Follow the money,do you want to be in a resort chain with a ton of new $$$$ coming in? or a closed end resort that is constantly hitting up its owners for increased cost? This group that owns the mayans may not come from your world..but they are progresive, pro-growth and know how to provide luxury and impecable service to the american-minded tourist. We all want a fair world ..but really how fair is it that we are allowed to vacation like we do and people around the world eat bugs to survive? WORLD WITHOUT ROSE COLORED GLASSES, and I do feed poor childeren through charity!

sorry for spelling


sally