Maui Ocean Club- Booked on points in Oct- can I (as a Canadian) cancel due to covid

[Dean]

As long as the resort is open I see no reason for one off exceptions. IMO they gave far too much flexibility last year which will be on the back of the other owners. They should stick to their rules or change them if they're going to offer additional flexibility.

 

[davidvel]

As long as the resort is open I see no reason for one off exceptions. IMO they gave far too much flexibility last year which will be on the back of the other owners. They should stick to their rules or change them if they're going to offer additional flexibility.

Yes. It seems to me that the extension of all of these points without corresponding inventory violates the timeshare 1 for 1 rule. Not sure how this is allowed.

 

[Quadmaniac]

Yes. It seems to me that the extension of all of these points without corresponding inventory violates the timeshare 1 for 1 rule. Not sure how this is allowed.

That’s my thought as well as it creates a nightmare for Marriott that they have no control over or at fault for. While it is nice if they help out, Marriott has a business to run and shareholders to answer to. They set their rules up for the parameters of the usage and I can’t fault them for following their policies. It also creates problems for other owners when they can’t get what they paid for as there is a backlog of weeks and points that exceeds their capacity. It’s not as easy as OP thinks it is to just accommodate her personal decision.

I’m currently deciding whether to go to Vegas next month, I have my unit booked but it’s for the World Series of Poker where you’re sitting next to 10 other people in a room with possibly 5000 people. If I decide not to go, it’s on me and I don’t expect an exception due to my choices. It’s life and if I waste a week, I waste a week, bigger fish to fry....

 

[Dean]

Yes. It seems to me that the extension of all of these points without corresponding inventory violates the timeshare 1 for 1 rule. Not sure how this is allowed.

I think the one to one rule preventing over selling is simply based on sales, not usage. Since they have complete control of the reservation system, they clearly have the power to do so. Banking & borrowing, by definition, create a potential for more points than units in any given year.

That’s my thought as well as it creates a nightmare for Marriott that they have no control over or at fault for. While it is nice if they help out, Marriott has a business to run and shareholders to answer to. They set their rules up for the parameters of the usage and I can’t fault them for following their policies. It also creates problems for other owners when they can’t get what they paid for as there is a backlog of weeks and points that exceeds their capacity. It’s not as easy as OP thinks it is to just accommodate her personal decision.

I’m currently deciding whether to go to Vegas next month, I have my unit booked but it’s for the World Series of Poker where you’re sitting next to 10 other people in a room with possibly 5000 people. If I decide not to go, it’s on me and I don’t expect an exception due to my choices. It’s life and if I waste a week, I waste a week, bigger fish to fry....

It likely does create a nightmare but probably only to the extent people complain more than usual. Otherwise the availability will take care of the rest and people will lose a certain amount of points and bank more when they can't get certain options. I suspect the additional banking, that is within the rules, will have an even larger impact long term. DVC limited borrowing but not banking though that may have been partly because of the 50th Anniversary celebration. It really doesn't affect their bottom line overall other than to the extent it affects shareholder confidence and stock prices and for anything they give up they could rent otherwise which isn't applicable to the points that were extended, it might have a minor affect for the II deposit flexibility. Obviously they are taking a hit on rentals and sales related to covid but that's not due to the added flexibility they allowed and in some cases, the points flexibility might have helped sales and other revenue streams over what would have occurred otherwise due to covid.

I've used this analogy several times but it's very applicable, it is exactly like you owned a condo but decided not to use it. Remember we are the owners and MVC only the management company. You'd still be responsible for any costs/fees and get nothing in return unless you rented it or used some similar method on your own. The good news for the rest of us is that allowing more holding account flexibility only affects the rest of the membership to the extent they'd book on shorter notice during the applicable time.

 

[JIMinNC]

Yes. It seems to me that the extension of all of these points without corresponding inventory violates the timeshare 1 for 1 rule. Not sure how this is allowed.

In their investor presentations, they have said that they were using inventory/points they control, and normally rent, to supplement the owner-bookable inventory to facilitate the extension of the points expiration dates that they did in response to the shutdowns in 2020. At first, I questioned whether they actually controlled enough inventory to provide enough slack in the system for all the cancelled reservations, but then realized that for much of their network, the true shutdowns only lasted a couple months. Florida and SC resorts, which make up a not insignificant portion of their resort inventory, started reopening in May 2020, so they weren't unavailable all that long. I remember from investor presentations that SC and FL beach resorts returned to 80+% occupancy fairly rapidly in spring/early summer 2020. It took Orlando a little longer to recover until the parks reopened in mid-to-late summer 2020, but the extended dislocations were primarily in Hawaii and maybe a few other isolated places.

 

[Steve Fatula]

Interesting. Our flight to Kauai three weeks from today still looks like it's pretty full, with only about 30 or so unassigned seats on a 190 seat or so A321neo. Also tried to see if I could get a cheaper car on Kauai and Budget is still showing sold out on Kauai for October 9. Took a glance at Orbitz cars and pretty much everyone is still showing pretty high rates for that date.

Here's some recent news to back up what I saw:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2021/09/16/hawaii-tourism-safe-travel-covid/

50,000 cancellations in Maui county alone!

 

[dmurray007]

Vaccine Pass' program now in effect on Oahu & Maui
Required for entry into Oahu & Maui establishments
On Oahu, beginning September 13, 2021, as per a new emergency order signed by Honolulu Mayor Rick Blangiardi, all customers wishing to enter Oahu restaurants, bars, gyms, and other Oahu establishments will need to show proof of vaccination or a negative COVID test; part of the city of Honolulu's Safe Access Oahu program. This program will remain in effect on Oahu for at least 60 days, until mid-November 2021.

On Maui, beginning September 15, 2021, vaccine cards will be required to dine indoors at Maui restaurants. Maui County Mayor Michael Victorino has said, "Customers will be required to show vaccination, vaccination cards, or some sort of verification. And those who don't have it, if they have outside seating, they're allowed to sit outside and/or takeout."

From a couple of weeks ago, they are using the Safe Travels App as it is readily available and easy for businesses to ask to see it especially if you are a visitor (which they can tell you're not a local from a mile away, lol). Businesses are probably not taking it to the same level as the government insisting on vaccination in the US. You have to take into consideration, a lot of the businesses are hurting with the decrease in tourism, they want the business. They're going to be reasonable (if anything Hawaiians are more kind, warm and welcoming than mainland US). If you're showing your negative covid test, safe travels QR code and proof of vaccination in Canada, highly unlikely you're going to be turned away.

Of course, your feeling of ease is purely personal and you may not feel comfortable, which is totally legitimate BUT from Marriott standpoint, you are allowed to go and they have the facility available to you so you can't expect them to change the policy when it is a personal vs a governmental issue preventing you from going.

Hawaii Coronavirus Map and Case Count

See the latest charts and maps of coronavirus cases, deaths, hospitalizations and vaccinations in Hawaii.

www.nytimes.com

	Cases Daily Avg.	Per 100,000	14-day change	Hospitalized Avg. Per 100,000	14-day change	Deaths Daily Avg.	Per 100,000	Fully Vaccinated
Hawaii	603	43	–34%	30	–5%	6.6	0.46	57%
Hawaii ›	95	47	–30%	28	–9%	0.7	0.35	—
Kauai ›	33	45	–7%	10	+50%	0.6	0.79	—
Honolulu ›	414	42	–36%	36	+14%	4.7	0.48	—
Maui ›	62	37	–34%	35	+14%	0.4	0.26	—
Kalawao	0	—	—	37	+17%	—	—	—

COVID-19 epidemiology update: Summary — Canada.ca

This summary of COVID-19 cases across Canada contains detailed data about the spread of the virus over time and in different regions of the country. Includes breakdowns by age and sex or gender. Provides an overview of testing, variants of concern, cases following vaccination and severe illness...

health-infobase.canada.ca

Alberta 6,277 per 100,000
Ontario 4,682 per 100,000

Currently Ontario, where you are, has over 100x the rates of Hawaii and 120x that of Maui. In Alberta, where our crazy politicians opened up for summer as we're in an "endemic", we're even worse, at about 150x Hawaii and 160x Maui. From reasonability standpoint, I think you are at much higher risk in Ottawa than Maui by 120x.

At the end of the day, only you can decide how safe you feel but if you don't feel safe with Maui's & Hawaii's numbers, how are you going out in Ontario with over 100x the infection rate ? Just quantifying the real numbers....

I would check the source of your numbers as Ontario is showing around 750 cases daily in a population of 14 million. Alberta is much higher than Ontario but still not anywhere near the number you are posting. Think you are confusing the weekly total for daily total and the entire population and not per 100.000 (Ontario 14 million, Alberta 4 million).

 

[Quadmaniac]

I would check the source of your numbers as Ontario is showing around 750 cases daily in a population of 14 million. Alberta is much higher than Ontario but still not anywhere near the number you are posting. Think you are confusing the weekly total for daily total and the entire population and not per 100.000 (Ontario 14 million, Alberta 4 million).

You are right, I now noticed the statistics are daily for Hawaii and the ones for Alberta and Ontario was the overall, sorry my mistake. The point was to really show its not much different from what we are experiencing ourselves at home, so the notion that it is not safe there is a personal choice vs actual risk as its probably more so in Canada than Hawaii.