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Maui Embassy and the Annual Meeting

Walt

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;) For your Information: This is what I sent to the Maui Embassy.

February 24, 2006

Ka’anapali Beach Vacation Owners Association
Embassy Vacation Resort
104 Ka’anapali Shores Place
Lahaina, Hi. 96761

Dear Sir,

Enclosed you will find my signed Proxy Vote for the Board of Directors of the Ka’anapali Beach Vacation Owners Association. I only want this vote to go to any Board member that is willing to address the problem of RCI renting a large number of weeks at the Maui Embassy. If no one wants to address this problem, I will take back my vote.

You will find a copy of part of a Thread on TUG. You may find the total Thread on www.Tug2.net. Several of the Problems about the Rental practices of RCI and the relationship to RCI’s Renting practices and the best interest of the Owners of the Ka’anapali Embassy are talked about in this thread.

The title is “Embassy Owners in Hawaii Please Give Me Your Input.”

You can find the thread at the internet address below.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthr...highlight=Walt


A second Thread is addressed to Ask RCI on TUG. Madge is a front person for RCI and talks for RCI. She is willing to answer questions from the TUG membership on behalf of RCI.

You can find the thread at the internet address below.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthr...highlight=Walt

There are several questions on this thread that are really not answered by Madge. Such as “What replacement week is equal to a Prime Week in a Prime Location in Hawaii?” The Maui Embassy in March, April, and May, 2006.

You will find the results for an Extra Vacation search for the month of December, 2006 for the Maui Embassy.

You will also find a Weeks Exchange search for Hawaii for December, 2006. There are no Maui Embassy units available as Exchanges for the month of December, 2006.

And you will find the results for a Snap Travel search for the month of December, 2006 for the Maui Embassy. You will also find Snap Travel’s agreement with American Express giving a 30% discount to any vacation weeks rented at Snap Travel and billed to the holder of an American Express card.

According to our Owner Agreement, the period of 6 months out to 12 months out, should be only available to Owner of the Maui Embassy. Yet, you are allowing RCI to rent these weeks during this time period. It would appear that this could be a violation of our Owners Agreement with you.

I feel that by renting out Maui Embassy weeks for less than the Total of the Maintenance Fees and Exchanges Fees greatly reduces the value of Ownership in the Maui Embassy. Even at a rental fee of $1200, you are allowing RCI to reduce the Value of Ownership in the Maui Embassy. Let us say, that the Maintenance Fee stays at $690 and the Exchange Fee at $147 for a Total of $837.

How many years would it take for the $363 difference to pay for the cost of an Ownership of a $25,000 to $35,000 week at the Maui Embassy? Why should we own?

I do no understand what value the Owners of the Maui Embassy receive from RCI’s practice of renting Prime Weeks at the Maui Embassy. As I understand it, RCI gets the entire Rental Fee and the Maui Embassy and the Owners of timeshare weeks receive nothing in return.

I never would have become an Owner at the Maui Embassy if I had known that you would allow RCI to rent out the Maui Embassy instead to putting the units in the Weeks Exchange Pool as they should be doing. I also think that seeing the large number of Maui Embassy Weeks for sale in the Secondary Market at greatly reduce rates tells me that a large number of other owners feel the same way.

Why buy when you can rent for less or near the expense of the Maintenance Fee and Exchange Fees?

I would like someone to respond to this letter and my many questions with a return letter.

Thank You,

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Walt :)
 

Walt

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We need other Maui Embassy Owners to speak out

reddiablosv said:
Way to go Walt! Ben

We need other Maui Embassy owners to speak out. But I doubt they will take the time to do so.

Walt :)
 

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nIce letter.
 

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Walt,

I am so frustrated with RCI and Embassy! I have Embassy Tahoe. And 2 years ago, I had no trouble depositing my 2 bedroom Red Tahoe week and exchanging into Maui Embasssy. In fact I could view all the space banks for Embassy Maui and Kauai. Now my Tahoe week can't pull up either Maui or Kauai. Or any other Hawaiian property at all!! I am furious. To top it off, I had week 50 reserved this year in Tahoe when my kids are out of school, which I had to make a year prior. I called EVR and they said they could not deposit my week 50 into RCI - that is not the way it works - they deposit whatever week they are working on now. She assured me that it would be a red week and just as strong. I agree and deposit. Feb 10, 2006 shows up in my account and I can't do anything! No Hawaii, No Embassy Hawaii, nothing. And from looking at the sightings, I see that Embassy Maui and Kauai have spacebanked. And I don't have enough power to pull the weeks out of the "for-sale" section into the trade section. I see about 20-30 opportunities per month to visit Embassy Poipu Point FOR SALE at $1200. I was assured as an Embassy owner in Lake Tahoe that I would have preferrential trading power when trading into other Embassy resorts. They only one I can trade into is Florida.

At this point I have put my Tahoe week back on hold and am seriously considering going with my orginial travel plans and NEVER trading through RCI again.

By the way,
I first called RCI and they told me that they have an agreement with Poipu Point to rent weeks.
I then called Poipu Point and owner relations told me that they NEVER, repeat NEVER give weeks to RCI to sell and that there is no agreement. All weeks are for trade. When I continued to present evidence that RCI was selling the weeks, she hung up on me.
Then I called back RCI and told them what Poipu Point said. RCI said they would never sell any weeks without a contract from Embassy.

SO FRUSTRATED!!!!!!!! :mad:
 

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Walt said:
;) I feel that by renting out Maui Embassy weeks for less than the Total of the Maintenance Fees and Exchanges Fees greatly reduces the value of Ownership in the Maui Embassy. Even at a rental fee of $1200, you are allowing RCI to reduce the Value of Ownership in the Maui Embassy. Let us say, that the Maintenance Fee stays at $690 and the Exchange Fee at $147 for a Total of $837.

How many years would it take for the $363 difference to pay for the cost of an Ownership of a $25,000 to $35,000 week at the Maui Embassy?

There is no $363 difference benefitting the owner.

At a $25,000 to $35,000 purchase price + $690 MF, the owner is paying $1940 to $2440 for their week of vacation (assumes a 5% ROI).

The renter under the scenario that you describe is staying at the resort for $1103 to $1603 less than the owner.
 

Walt

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I get the same story from Embassy Maui and RCI

tahoebound said:
Walt,

I am so frustrated with RCI and Embassy! I have Embassy Tahoe. And 2 years ago, I had no trouble depositing my 2 bedroom Red Tahoe week and exchanging into Maui Embasssy. In fact I could view all the space banks for Embassy Maui and Kauai. Now my Tahoe week can't pull up either Maui or Kauai. Or any other Hawaiian property at all!! I am furious. To top it off, I had week 50 reserved this year in Tahoe when my kids are out of school, which I had to make a year prior. I called EVR and they said they could not deposit my week 50 into RCI - that is not the way it works - they deposit whatever week they are working on now. She assured me that it would be a red week and just as strong. I agree and deposit. Feb 10, 2006 shows up in my account and I can't do anything! No Hawaii, No Embassy Hawaii, nothing. And from looking at the sightings, I see that Embassy Maui and Kauai have spacebanked. And I don't have enough power to pull the weeks out of the "for-sale" section into the trade section. I see about 20-30 opportunities per month to visit Embassy Poipu Point FOR SALE at $1200. I was assured as an Embassy owner in Lake Tahoe that I would have preferrential trading power when trading into other Embassy resorts. They only one I can trade into is Florida.

At this point I have put my Tahoe week back on hold and am seriously considering going with my orginial travel plans and NEVER trading through RCI again.

By the way,
I first called RCI and they told me that they have an agreement with Poipu Point to rent weeks.
I then called Poipu Point and owner relations told me that they NEVER, repeat NEVER give weeks to RCI to sell and that there is no agreement. All weeks are for trade. When I continued to present evidence that RCI was selling the weeks, she hung up on me.
Then I called back RCI and told them what Poipu Point said. RCI said they would never sell any weeks without a contract from Embassy.

SO FRUSTRATED!!!!!!!! :mad:

I get the same story from RCI and the Maui Embassy. Someone is not telling the truth. Until more Embassy owners do something about it, nothing is going to happen. Anyone that wants to use any part or all of my letter to the Maui Embassy, using their own name (TO SEND TO THEIR HOME RESORT) is welcome to do so.

Walt :)

PS. The Embassy Maui sales pitch was that Embassy Owner's Trades into other Embassy Resorts could be done in the 6 months to 12 months window that was only open to Embassy Owners. In others words, this was an Embassy Perk for being an Embassy Owner. The perk sure isn't worth anything. The Weeks could all rented by non-owners before we have a chance to make an Exchange.
 

Walt

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That is the Point

huestous said:
There is no $363 difference benefitting the owner.

At a $25,000 to $35,000 purchase price + $690 MF, the owner is paying $1940 to $2440 for their week of vacation (assumes a 5% ROI).

The renter under the scenario that you describe is staying at the resort for $1103 to $1603 less than the owner.


That is the point! Why buy and invest :( $25,000 to $35,000 when the rentals are in the $1200 range. And don't forget if you use your American Express or your Delta Credit Card to charge the transaction you can get $30% off of the $1200.

Walt :)
 

tahoebound

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Walt,

I sent letters to RCI corporate, Hilton Corporate, Embassy Poipu point, Embassy Maui and to Embassy Tahoe. It is so unfair!
 

jjking42

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tahoebound said:
Walt,

I sent letters to RCI corporate, Hilton Corporate, Embassy Poipu point, Embassy Maui and to Embassy Tahoe. It is so unfair!


why hilton corporate ?
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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tahoebound said:
Hilton manages Embassy Vacation Resorts.
Hilton does not manage Embassy Vacation Resorts. The EVRs are managed by Sunterra Property Management.

Hilton is involved only in the franchising of the Embassy name. Hilton has neither ownership interest in the properties nor operating activitiy. The only involvement of Hilton is verification that the resorts are meeting the operational requirements requried in the franchsing agreement.

Hilton couldn't care less about RCI renting units. Sunterra is the entity that would be concerned, as RCI rentals compete directly with Sunterra's sales efforts at all Sunterra resorts (not just the Embassies).

But since Sunterra already terminated its affiliation with RCI, Sunterra probably has little influence over RCI.
 
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WhereShouldIGoNow

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I also am not happy with what is going on...
We all won't be able to go to the Association meeting in March, but it can be brought up at ALL the weekly owners meetings "EACH AND EVERY TIME" one of us goes to the Embassy Maui!
That is how more owners will find out about this!
I will be taking a copy of this letter with me when I go this year -- and I will present it to all owners that I can!

You have not heard enough responses from RCI or Embassy because they don't care enough -- YET!!!

...and THANKS for all your hard work and persistance on this matter Walt.
Let me know if there is anything I can do also to help...
Most people would of just dropped it by now -- I am glad you care enough to keep going with this!
 
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Walt

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Thank You for your input!

WhereShouldIGoNow said:
I also am not happy with what is going on...
We all won't be able to go to the Association meeting in March, but it can be brought up at ALL the weekly owners meetings "EACH AND EVERY TIME" one of us goes to the Embassy Maui!
That is how more owners will find out about this!
I will be taking a copy of this letter with me when I go this year -- and I will present it to all owners that I can!

You have not heard enough responses from RCI or Embassy because they don't care enough -- YET!!!

...and THANKS for all your hard work and persistance on this matter Walt.
Let me know if there is anything I can do also to help...
Most people would of just dropped it by now -- I am glad you care enough to keep going with this!

Hi WhereShouldIGoNow,

Thank you for your input. I'm glad my persistance is paying off. I became an owner at the Maui Embassy to use my week. Not to exchange the Week. I also have an II membership. If I ever trade this week it would be with II.

I am at the age where I will be using all of my 5 weeks at the Beach Club. If need be, I could use or rent my 2 Weeks at the Fox Hills instead of Exchanging. In other words, in the near future, I may be using II and maybe RCI for rentals only. So, my fight with RCI is not for my benefit. In fact, RCI continuing to rent would be in my best interest. For some, it may be hard to understand the reason I am fighting for something that may not be in my best interest. For others, it may not be so hard. It appears to me that there is nothing wrong with the Weeks System that a little honesty and trust on the part of RCI would not fix. It appears that RCI is Renting Owner's Spacebank Weeks and there is nothing that Madge(RCI) said in my Maui Embassy post to her proves otherwise. She did not deny that they were renting owner's spacebank weeks. She used the non-exchange programs as the reason why. In fact, when asked, " What is equal to Hawaiian Resorts in Prime Time?" she had no answer. I just think it is wrong to have just about ALL the Maui Embassy Owner's Bulk Spacebank Week go into a Rental Program that does not benefit the Owners at the Maui Embassy.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12717&highlight=Walt

I too, intend on going to the weekly owners meeting and bring this up. I will also post the Embassy's reply to my letter on this Thread. Email me and let's talk about what we can do to get the word out.

Walt :)
 
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T_R_Oglodyte said:
Hilton does not manage Embassy Vacation Resorts. The EVRs are managed by Sunterra Property Management.

Hilton is involved only in the franchising of the Embassy name. Hilton has neither ownership interest in the properties nor operating activitiy. The only involvement of Hilton is verification that the resorts are meeting the operational requirements requried in the franchsing agreement.

Hilton couldn't care less about RCI renting units. Sunterra is the entity that would be concerned, as RCI rentals compete directly with Sunterra's sales efforts at all Sunterra resorts (not just the Embassies).

But since Sunterra already terminated its affiliation with RCI, Sunterra probably has little influence over RCI.

Oh sorry, I think Hilton first managed Embassy Tahoe when we bought five years ago. I remember that it was only RCI weeks then. When we did another timeshare talk they tried to get us to upgrade to Points and explained about Sunterra. I forgot. Or maybe I just misunderstood the whole thing. Thanks for giving out the correct information. :)
 

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tahoebound said:
Oh sorry, I think Hilton first managed Embassy Tahoe when we bought five years ago. I remember that it was only RCI weeks then. When we did another timeshare talk they tried to get us to upgrade to Points and explained about Sunterra. I forgot. Or maybe I just misunderstood the whole thing. Thanks for giving out the correct information. :)
I don't think Hilton was ever involved in any of the Embassy resorts. The franchising arrangements were set up years ago when the developers were planning to make Embassy Vacation Ressorts into a larger, mulit-resort group. I don't know why that plan was terminated - most likely the developer got overextended.

Also about that time Sheraton acquired the Embassy name, and thus the franchising agreements with Embassy Vacation Resorts. The EVR in the Scottsdale area was rebreanded as a Sheraton at that time. Subsequently Hilton acquired the Embassy name, as well as thre franchsiing agreements.

For about four or five years there were activie discussions about Hilton Grand Vacation Club actually taking over operation of the Embassy properties. Those talks collapsed, which in turn, led Sunterra to begin marketing Club Sunterra through the Embassy resorts.
 

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Hum???????

T_R_Oglodyte said:
But since Sunterra already terminated its affiliation with RCI, Sunterra probably has little influence over RCI.
Just have to wonder if that has anything to do with it.... :confused:
RCI is just pissed and they can get away with it...
 

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daventrina said:
Just have to wonder if that has anything to do with it.... :confused:
RCI is just pissed and they can get away with it...
Why would RCI want to create reasons for Embassy members to not deposit their units? RCI has already been having problems with top end developers bailing for II. Embassy units are attractive to RCI for exchanges, and, if we are to believe the allegations of some, RCI likes to rent them out.

If RCI wer undercutting the internal Embassy trading preference, that would create less reason for owners to deposit with RCI.
 

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T_R_Oglodyte said:
t Embassy units are attractive to RCI for exchanges, and, if we are to believe the allegations of some, RCI likes to rent them out.

JUst look at Snap Travel or RCI extra Vacations and it can be confirmed that RCI is renting weeks.
 

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Barbeque said:
JUst look at Snap Travel or RCI extra Vacations and it can be confirmed that RCI is renting weeks.
I didn't mean to leave it open to question that RCIis renting weeks from the Embassy. No queston about that. The only issue is how those weeks are winding up as rental inventory. As I've posited previously, about the only way those weeks would wind up in a rental pool is to pay for cruises being taken by Weeks members. But I guesst they could also wind up on the points side if a lot of Embassy owners were sending Embassy weeks to points through Points for Deposit. Doesn't seem to make much sense to me to use Embassy weeks in PFD though.
 

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Rentals have to come from owners

It is a recurring theme to blame RCI for renting these weeks but ignoring the underlying fact that OWNERS had to deposit them. By PFD, weeks deposits or, worst of all, a bulk bank by the resort management there is no other way for RCI to get so many weeks from any resort that doesn't have a developer making large deposits anymore. RCI cannot rent inventory that isn't given to them so find the source and try to plug that since we already know RCI uses rentals to move inventory when they think they can.
 

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timeos2 said:
It is a recurring theme to blame RCI for renting these weeks but ignoring the underlying fact that OWNERS had to deposit them. By PFD, weeks deposits or, worst of all, a bulk bank by the resort management there is no other way for RCI to get so many weeks from any resort that doesn't have a developer making large deposits anymore. RCI cannot rent inventory that isn't given to them so find the source and try to plug that since we already know RCI uses rentals to move inventory when they think they can.
The point here, John, is that RCI has said that the only weeks they rent are weeks that are determined to be surplus or to offset the cost of non-tmeshare related uses by exchangers.

Since Sunterra dropped it's RCI affiliation, the only deposits made to RCI are member deposits. Though the resort does bulk bank, the bulk banking is tied to member exchange activity - the resort is not bulk banking weeks in any significant excess over deposits being made by members.

I simiply have a hard time believing that there is such a glut of Embassy Hawai`i weeks that weeks 6 to 8 months out are surplus. So if everything is as kosher in the rental market as RCI claims it is, then all of those Embassy weeks that are out there for rental are being used by RCI to redeem cruises exchanges made by weeks owners.

I have any easier time believing that things are not as kosher as RCI has stated, and that they are feeding the rental market with some of the prime weeks in the Spacebank.

****

I'm not sure of your point, John, unless you're saying that we should try to stop owners from using RCI. I've already done that; without even considering RCI renting exchanges, other exchange companies simply offer more value for an Embassy week than does RCI.

If Embassy were in points, perhaps it would be more attractive to exchange wtih RCI. But it doesn't make sense to give RCI and Embassy week when you can a get three weeks in exchange by depositing with SFX.
 

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Any Reasonable Person Would Come To The Same Conclusion.

T_R_Oglodyte said:
The point here, John, is that RCI has said that the only weeks they rent are weeks that are determined to be surplus or to offset the cost of non-tmeshare related uses by exchangers.

Since Sunterra dropped it's RCI affiliation, the only deposits made to RCI are member deposits. Though the resort does bulk bank, the bulk banking is tied to member exchange activity - the resort is not bulk banking weeks in any significant excess over deposits being made by members.

I simiply have a hard time believing that there is such a glut of Embassy Hawai`i weeks that weeks 6 to 8 months out are surplus. So if everything is as kosher in the rental market as RCI claims it is, then all of those Embassy weeks that are out there for rental are being used by RCI to redeem cruises exchanges made by weeks owners.

I have any easier time believing that things are not as kosher as RCI has stated, and that they are feeding the rental market with some of the prime weeks in the Spacebank.
****

I'm not sure of your point, John, unless you're saying that we should try to stop owners from using RCI. I've already done that; without even considering RCI renting exchanges, other exchange companies simply offer more value for an Embassy week than does RCI.

If Embassy were in points, perhaps it would be more attractive to exchange wtih RCI. But it doesn't make sense to give RCI and Embassy week when you can a get three weeks in exchange by depositing with SFX.


"I have any easier time believing that things are not as kosher as RCI has stated, and that they are feeding the rental market with some of the prime weeks in the Spacebank."

Hi Steve,

I agree with you. Any reasonable person would come to the same conclusion.

From Madge's answer, it appears that RCI is using units that were deposited for non-exchange transactions and Points Partners transactions as a cover for renting Prime Resort with Prime Location in Prime Time.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthr...highlight=Walt

When I asked "What is an equal replacement for Hawaii in March, April, and May? Madge answer is "The specific details of our reconciliation process are proprietary."


Check out my ASK RCI Thread and Madge's Answer. The Maui Embassy told me that RCI was given only Owner's Weeks. Madge did not deny this.

She said "The units offered in Extra Vacations (or a vendor such as SnapTravel) may not always be the specific units that were deposited for non-exchange transactions. For example, the member who requests a cruise exchange may be using a deposited week that was long ago assigned to another RCI member. When this is the case, an equivalent unit is taken in place of that member's deposited unit. Equivalence here is based on our standard Trading Power guidelines."

So with the Maui Embassy Weeks, I would have to believe that RCI took ALL of the Embassy Maui Owner's Weeks for RENTALS and then gave back Weeks of EQUAL VALUE to the weeks EXchange pool. I would also have to believe just about everyone would spacebank their week and not request a Crusie or another non-exchange for several months after they spacebacked their week.

Madge would not answer what is EQUAL VALUE to Hawaii in Prime Time.

When I searched this time period with the Highest Trader for an Exchange, there was NOT 1 Hawaiian week available. Besides the many Maui Embassy weeks available for rent on Snap Travel/RCI in the Thread, I also found many other Hawaiian Resorts with many weeks available for rent.


So what is equal to weeks in Hawaii in Prime Time except other weeks in Hawaii in Prime Time?

Walt :)
 

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Walt -

Beynnd that, there is no way that Embassy weeks should wind up being rented to cover Points transactions because the Embassies are not in RCI Points. The only way for Embassy weeks to get into Points are:
  1. A Points owner echanges into an Embassy using the crossover grid.
  2. A points owner deposits and Embassy week into Points usinf PFD.
Since the first case would result in owner usage, that would not lead to an Embassy week being rented to cover points transactions. Hence, if RCI is being kosher, the only way that an Embassy week would wind ub being rented to cover Points tranactions is via PFD. And if I understand PFD, depositng an Embassy Hawai`i week using PFD is not very smart.

So if Embassy weeks are being rented to cover the cost of Points transactions, I think it's very likely that RCI is not following the rules it has told us it follows.
 
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