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Martial Law.....

Mongoose

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March 13! You might want to update your intel.

Nowhere does it say "live your lives normally". Instead, the interrelated issues are listed, not that there is no threat.
LOL. The point is, his failure to act is the issue and why NY is performing so poorly. Schools should have been closed way before March 13th. That is what my comment was related to. Do your own research if you like and you will see his comments and failure to recognize the threat.

 
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geekette

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No, de Blasio did not fail to recognize the threat, he had to consider logistics of displaced people and keeping the subway running, and the significant number of food-insecure people, etc.

Cuomo gets final say anyhow.

Some states still haven't closed schools or done much of anything towards containment. I'd say Florida leads in reckless disregard.
 

bluehende

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The Constitution is NOT a suicide pact. Plus this is not martial law.
Very interesting concept. The constitution is definitely a living breathing document. Not just with the amendments but also with the interpretation. There is no doubt that crisis situations are a great catalyst for that change in interpretation. 9/11 was a great example of that. I have yet to see a position that a large group of our society deems necessary not be justified by some part of the constitution. In this case the preamble insures domestic tranquility.and promote the general welfare. Could these orders not be argued that they are essential to these basic premises of the constitution itself.
 

chapjim

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Very interesting concept. The constitution is definitely a living breathing document. Not just with the amendments but also with the interpretation. There is no doubt that crisis situations are a great catalyst for that change in interpretation. 9/11 was a great example of that. I have yet to see a position that a large group of our society deems necessary not be justified by some part of the constitution. In this case the preamble insures domestic tranquility.and promote the general welfare. Could these orders not be argued that they are essential to these basic premises of the constitution itself.
Sorry, but a living breathing Constitution is no constitution at all. It's meaning will blow in the wind.
 

bbodb1

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Why? You got some drive-in movies that need to be reviewed?
Perhaps you missed Goaliedave's post just before mine.....it had a JBB reference in there....
 

bluehende

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Sorry, but a living breathing Constitution is no constitution at all. It's meaning will blow in the wind.
I agree. The whole idea for a "living constitution" and constitutional review, is based in part on the Supreme Court case of Marbury v. Madison back in
1803. That decision relied on an argument regarding the writing of the constitution which of course, had no validity when the constitution was written.

Our constitution is not some living thing, it's a legal document.
 

bluehende

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I agree. The whole idea for a "living constitution" and constitutional review, is based in part on the Supreme Court case of Marbury v. Madison back in
1803. That decision relied on an argument regarding the writing of the constitution which of course, had no validity when the constitution was written.

Our constitution is not some living thing, it's a legal document.
So as a policeman you never told any groups of people to disperse????????? Or anyone to shut up. Or put down that gun.

Would that be against the constitution as the original premise of this discussion is saying as a constitutional literist.
 

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I think that, especially with this President, the chances of declaring martial law country wide are zero. He stated yesterday he wants to get back to life as usual in weeks, rather than months. No one needs to fear martial law.

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geekette

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I think that, especially with this President, the chances of declaring martial law country wide are zero. He stated yesterday he wants to get back to life as usual in weeks, rather than months. No one needs to fear martial law.
Yeah, I'd be more concerned that I would be dragged to the office at gunpoint...
 

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Yeah, I'd be more concerned that I would be dragged to the office at gunpoint...
Haha would't that be something. I think most in USA want to get back to work asap anyway.

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not at risk of death!

Not sure about others, but no way I trust my fellow coworkers to stay home when ill. I can always make more money.
Amen!

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Here is a good article on the interpretations. There is a very good paragraph or two on a certain amendment that will not be named here.

It is rather obvious to me that if we need courts to “interpret” the Constitution that those interpretations are going to change because the courts themselves continually change. Otherwise, our Founding Fathers would have deemed the Constitution to be clear and definitive and would have seen no reason for courts to interpret it. Therefore, as the courts are made up of living and breathing (and, hopefully, thinking) people, the Constitution itself is living and breathing.


Harry
 

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Can you give me a date on when this NY mayor allegedly said this, and which city? NY negligence is an accusation too far, imo.

I don't think we can go by "infection rate" since most areas do not have testing. You cannot compare them to anywhere else.

Some of these states not closing down non-essential business have not had enough testing to really know when it would be warranted. Could have been 3 weeks ago. Could be 3 weeks from now. Nobody knows the true rate of infection, it is not possible to know here in USA.
New York City Now has more cases than all countries but the top five. Here's De Blasio in his on words just 3 weeks ago. This and the statements by the NYC Health Commissioner encouraging people to go out is literally the reason why NYC has more cases than Japan, South Korea and the UK Combined! If they had acted on March 3rd like most other states and major cities with cases had we would not be seeing this. Tragically this will end the lives of many.


 

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Wow, strong words. Blaming this one guy for all of this, even using the word "literally". Show me how many states shut down by March 3? Many didn't nearly St Pat's. Some still haven't. Not all schools are closed even now.

So how did this infection get to New York? Is that his fault, too? Where were the tests to help him make a decision based on data? He's a mayor, that is all. Where is all the PPE that would help health care workers not get infected by patients and pass that along? Would you like to lay lay that at his doorstep, too?
 

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Wow, strong words. Blaming this one guy for all of this, even using the word "literally". Show me how many states shut down by March 3? Many didn't nearly St Pat's. Some still haven't. Not all schools are closed even now.

So how did this infection get to New York? Is that his fault, too? Where were the tests to help him make a decision based on data? He's a mayor, that is all. Where is all the PPE that would help health care workers not get infected by patients and pass that along? Would you like to lay lay that at his doorstep, too?
His fault is telling people there was no risk. You don't need a test to take precautions, the risks were known. I've been tracking this at work since January 20. That is why we implemented a travel ban on high risk countries. He was trying to make a point and put people at risk. That is why NYC now 1500% more than any other city. It's not the people it's a total failure of leadership.
 

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His fault is telling people there was no risk. You don't need a test to take precautions, the risks were known. I've been tracking this at work since January 20. That is why we implemented a travel ban on high risk countries. He was trying to make a point and put people at risk. That is why NYC now 1500% more than any other city. It's not the people it's a total failure of leadership.
Leaders not taking it seriously blew it for USA. POTUS in January saying "its only 5 cases", Feb 25 clip i posted elsewhere saying "it's fully contained" ... words matter. Many people in USA blindly follow leaders so vitally important. Fauci refusing to be on the podium any longer... POTUS saying in 3 weeks he wants full churches and economy resumed ... no other leader (Brasil excepted) is behaving this way. A month ago, WHO predicted that on April 8 thousands in USA will die. What are people waiting for?

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Leaders not taking it seriously blew it for USA. POTUS in January saying "its only 5 cases", Feb 25 clip i posted elsewhere saying "it's fully contained" ... words matter. Many people in USA blindly follow leaders so vitally important. Fauci refusing to be on the podium any longer... POTUS saying in 3 weeks he wants full churches and economy resumed ... no other leader (Brasil excepted) is behaving this way. A month ago, WHO predicted that on April 8 thousands in USA will die. What are people waiting for?

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I think its mainly denial. We haven't experienced anything like this is 100 years. We have largely been untouched by world catastrophes, with a few notable exceptions. Even 9/11 didn't have this scope of threat to the average citizen. Many just can't cope with the idea that it can happen here. Cognitive Dissonance plays a significant role.
 
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geekette

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His fault is telling people there was no risk. You don't need a test to take precautions, the risks were known. I've been tracking this at work since January 20. That is why we implemented a travel ban on high risk countries. He was trying to make a point and put people at risk. That is why NYC now 1500% more than any other city. It's not the people it's a total failure of leadership.
Point that anger all the way up the chain.
 

Mongoose

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Point that anger all the way up the chain.
We can agree to disagree. I would hope we can agree on the fact that we don't want to live in a Country where the Federal Government mandates across country how all states operate during an emergency. We are a Republic made up of self-governed states. Local decisions are best handled locally. The federal government controls the borders and international travel. The state and local governments control things like shelter in place, curfews, healthcare and emergency response. It would be a disaster if we gave the federal government control over these things.
 

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We can agree to disagree. I would hope we can agree on the fact that we don't want to live in a Country where the Federal Government mandates across country how all states operate during an emergency. We are a Republic made up of self-governed states. Local decisions are best handled locally. The federal government controls the borders and international travel. The state and local governments control things like shelter in place, curfews, healthcare and emergency response. It would be a disaster if we gave the federal government control over these things.
It would be un-American for sure. Disaster is debatable.

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geekette

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We can agree to disagree. I would hope we can agree on the fact that we don't want to live in a Country where the Federal Government mandates across country how all states operate during an emergency. We are a Republic made up of self-governed states. Local decisions are best handled locally. The federal government controls the borders and international travel. The state and local governments control things like shelter in place, curfews, healthcare and emergency response. It would be a disaster if we gave the federal government control over these things.
Sure, but don't hide the truth. Don't pretend that people won't die, that this is nothing.
 

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Sure, but don't hide the truth. Don't pretend that people won't die, that this is nothing.
Not at all. This is bad. Its just not the end of the world. The initial data from the WHO was flawed. They estimated 3.8% morbidity rate. Its actually more like 0.8% which is still 10x more than the flu. The UK just dropped its fatality stats from 500,000 to 20,000. People need to take care and follow orders. We will probably see 100,000 to 400,000 dead here. Just a guess but better than the 2.2M they were initially predicting.
 
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