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Marriott vs. Wyndham

GeNioS

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Ok...I've been looking for a Marriott resale for a while.....right price, trading power, season, ROFR database, etc......own two weeks of developer sold already.

My thinking is that I can pick up a 2br lockoff somwhere, lock it off and have 2 weeks for trading, and essentially get a timeshare week for 1/2 maintenance fees......like my other two weeks now. All well and good......

....but......

I keep seeing these Wyndham weeks going for next to nothing and I'm wondering if I can't ignore them anymore. I'm sure that this has been beaten to death before, but given current prices, market, etc....input is greatly appreciated.

As far as I can tell:

Marriott pros:
- Know them
- Know II
- Nicer accomodations (?)
- Locking off gets me two weeks for one-week fees (+lock off fee I suppose)
- Better resale value (although I'll pay more so it's probably even there)

Wyndham pros:
- Internal trading system so nearly no exchange fees (except pooling)
- (much) Lower upfront costs
- Can book less than full weeks
- Points lets me book how much room I need for less points
- No rofr (i think?) so I know once I buy one I own it
- Pooling points gets me 3 years time as opposed to 2 years through II deposit

Am I completely off the wagon here(?), but I'm seeing 154,000 point weeks go for next to nothing and I'm wondering if, at that price, I can't afford to ignore them anymore. But I have used Marriott for years and have been happy with them.

Help?
 

timeos2

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Really no comparison in value and flexibilty

Ok...I've been looking for a Marriott resale for a while.....right price, trading power, season, ROFR database, etc......own two weeks of developer sold already.

My thinking is that I can pick up a 2br lockoff somwhere, lock it off and have 2 weeks for trading, and essentially get a timeshare week for 1/2 maintenance fees......like my other two weeks now. All well and good......

....but......

I keep seeing these Wyndham weeks going for next to nothing and I'm wondering if I can't ignore them anymore. I'm sure that this has been beaten to death before, but given current prices, market, etc....input is greatly appreciated.

As far as I can tell:

Marriott pros:
- Know them
- Know II
- Nicer accomodations (?)
- Locking off gets me two weeks for one-week fees (+lock off fee I suppose)
- Better resale value (although I'll pay more so it's probably even there)

Wyndham pros:
- Internal trading system so nearly no exchange fees (except pooling)
- (much) Lower upfront costs
- Can book less than full weeks
- Points lets me book how much room I need for less points
- No rofr (i think?) so I know once I buy one I own it
- Pooling points gets me 3 years time as opposed to 2 years through II deposit

Am I completely off the wagon here(?), but I'm seeing 154,000 point weeks go for next to nothing and I'm wondering if, at that price, I can't afford to ignore them anymore. But I have used Marriott for years and have been happy with them.

Help?
Unless you desire a specific Marriott resort the two are miles apart in usability. With Wyndham you get low price in, lower annual fees (in most cases - in fact I don't think there's an individual Wyndham resort that has a higher fee than a similar Marriott - the only equal comparison) and a system of resorts rather than one and the use (at not insignificant cost) of II. Of course you get RCI (or II depending on the resort) from Wyndham - included in the annual cost.

Dollar for dollar and based on choice there is no choice. Wyndham wins that race hands down. As for variables like quality of resorts there are Wyndhams every bit as good or better than Marriotts - but not all by any means. However you get the use of ALL of them - your choice - vs 1 resort maybe even 1 fixed week in the Marriott system. It's tough to make a "better value" argument when far less costs much more.

We compared both. Stayed in both. Purchased (resale of course) Wyndham. We've been very happy with it and have been able to get access to all the Marriotts we cared to visit using trades. It means we would have spent far more to get what is available much more reasonably through other means.

Marriott has some of the nicest timeshares around. But you do not have to own one or more to enjpy them in our experience.
 

GeNioS

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Thanks very much for the response. Quick question...how did you manage to get the Marriott's you wanted to through trading....isn't Wyndham RCI and the Marriott's II?
 

mshatty

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Thanks very much for the response. Quick question...how did you manage to get the Marriott's you wanted to through trading....isn't Wyndham RCI and the Marriott's II?
There are a few Wyndham resorts that are II exchange affiliated. With Wyndham, the first resort you buy determines your exchange company. So if you want II as your exchange company, it is important to buy one the Wyndham II affiliated resorts first and have Wyndham set up II as your exchange company. Any additional Wyndham resorts you add to your account later will be exchanged through II, even if they are RCI affiliated.

This is because the deposits Wyndham gives II are based on your Fairshare Plus points and not the actuals resorts you own.
 
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GeNioS

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I guess depositing Wyndham into II is only part of this I don't understand. Right now, I can deposit the studio side of my lockoff and pull 2br units (as long as I'm flexible on when I can travel, of course).

How do I deposit points into II, and what kind of rooms are those points going to get me back?
 

DaveHenry

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You might be interested in the Wyndham Owners Forums

There is a lot of information on the Wyndham Owners Forums at www.wyndhamowners.org, including a primer on how the Wyndham system works. You would probably find it useful. I did.

Dave
 

timeos2

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II - RCI both are better with request first

I guess depositing Wyndham into II is only part of this I don't understand. Right now, I can deposit the studio side of my lockoff and pull 2br units (as long as I'm flexible on when I can travel, of course).

How do I deposit points into II, and what kind of rooms are those points going to get me back?
Simplified they look at what you want - then tell you what the amount of points needed is to get it. You never have to deposit anything as Wyndham does that part. Our Wyndham points are RCI based (our first FSP was at Kingsgate - an RCI resort) so we have never used Wyndham points to trade within II. We have used THE CLUB (Diamond Resorts exchange system similar to FSP) which operates the same way. That has got us the Marriotts we wanted & usually we didn't even have to give up a full weeks worth of points to get it! Both points based systems have worked great for us in both RCI, II and of course using the resorts in the respective systems themselves. Interestingly the past three years we have used a holiday week at a Marriott using CLUB points and II and had enough points left over to spend another week (discounted for last minute) at a Diamond resort. 2 for one indeed! Especially nice is the "request first" process that FSP brings to RCI - no one else gets that. You don't give up your points until they get the trade you want. Very nice feature.
 

GeNioS

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I had previously d/l the primer and read it. Back then, the points were very confusing....it made a lot more sense to me this time now that I've done a little more research. I guess I just have traded so many times through II that I'm comfortable with the system and the resorts and I've always trusted that the Marriott resorts were high quality. (I have, however, always been slightly ticked off that although I'm trading Marriott to Marriott I have to get whacked an exchange fee)

The idea of request first is also strange to me because I've always deposited first. I like(d?) being able to get in and see what was available and especially see what I could get for the studio.

If I call RCI and ask for a 2br week with for a studio week, do I have a remote chance or are they going to laugh at me? Right now I can pull that off sometimes with my Marriott and II.

Thanks again for all the help....I know you hear it a million times but this place is invaluable...
 

mshatty

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I guess depositing Wyndham into II is only part of this I don't understand. Right now, I can deposit the studio side of my lockoff and pull 2br units (as long as I'm flexible on when I can travel, of course).

How do I deposit points into II, and what kind of rooms are those points going to get me back?
Wyndham has a set deposit point amount depending on season and unit size. For example a blue/green studio would be 28k points. A red studio would be 70k points. Like your lockoff, you may be able to exchange into a larger unit than you deposit. With Wyndham, you can choose a larger unit in a less desirable season for the same amount of points as a smaller unit in a more desirable season. That is part of the fun figuring out what you want to do and how to do it.
 

bnoble

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For me, the reason to buy into a Marriott is because you want to stay in the hardest-to-get Marriott resorts/seasons. You can either own in the one(s) you want to stay at, or use II's preference period to have a jump over the non-Marriott owners in exchanging in. If that's not your goal, then Marriott seems like overkill---there are cheaper ways to do what you want to do.

With Wyndham, you take a step down in resort quality, but (arguably) a larger step down in costs, so it is (arguably) a better value.

I would not buy Wyndham to trade, for the most part. I'd buy it to book internally. In RCI, Wyndham is at best a medicore trader. It a nice way to get into lower-demand non-Wyndham weeks cheaply, and can be a good way to get into the "lesser" Wyndham resorts at a discount over internal bookings. Otherwise, it's not a great performer compared to a high-season week at a good quality but off-brand resort with a favorable supply/demand curve. I know a lot less about Wyndham's performance in II.
 

Cathyb

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John: Your statement of no one else gets Request First is slightly wrong. Worldmark has that feature as well as some others.
 

joestein

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My family has accounts with Wyndham that trade both II and RCI. I think that II is far better than Wyndham. I have also found that the Wyndham deposits trade extremely well within II. They will pull up every available Marriot & Disney that I have looked for.

Wyndham doesn't trade well in RCI, but you can get great value if you learn the system and plan in advance.

I have found the Wyndham points I purchase resale to be OUTSTANDING values. I have only owned the points for 3 years (161K) and 1 year (131K EOY) but have gone on many vacations or sent people on vacations since.

My total cost of ownership (price paid for points plus maintenance) has been around $6700, and this is the list of vacations we have taken since (all based upon 2008 points or previous):

2 bdrm week at Wyndham Palm Aire in May
(2) 2 bdrm August Weeks at Summit at Massanutten
(2) 2 bdrm May weeks at Wyndham Ocean Walk
1 bdrm August week at Worldmark Windsor
1 bdrm August week at Worldmark Dolphins Cove
1 bdrm May week at Disney's Boardwalk Villas
1 bdrm May week at Disney's Beach Club
2 bdrm August week at Wyndham Smokey Mountains
2 bdrm August week at Wyndham Kingsgate

upcoming: 1 bdrm May week at Disney's Old Key West.

That is 12 weeks, which based upon my total costs come out to $558/week. This cost will continue to come down, as I only pay maintenance on a forward basis.

Joe
 

timeos2

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See how you learn? I forgot about Worldmark (Wyndham)

John: Your statement of no one else gets Request First is slightly wrong. Worldmark has that feature as well as some others.
Ah - I stand corrected! I wasn't aware that Worldmark also had it. (but aren't they Wyndham owned too?) So only Wyndham based systems seem to get it. Or does someone else, non-Wyndham have it? In any case it is a much better way to use any exchange company.
 

GeNioS

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I'd buy it to book internally.
Having paid fees for years through Marriott and II, I see this as a huge plus.

I do think I'd like to stay in the II world....call it fear of the unknown. So, in order to do that, I have to make sure that I buy my first wyndham from one of the few wyndhams hooked up through II, right?

Final question, and again, this is huge help from everyone....these maintenance fees bill monthly, not yearly? If someone is selling points that are good from Apr 08-Mar 09, for example....if I buy it today, do the monthly fees just start coming to me now? I guess my question is, when do I start paying the fees, and if I get stuck with a few extra months worth of fees, is that just something I live with?

The usage year thing is very confusing when you factor in monthly fees. Yearly fees, even if paid at different times of the year, make it much easier to know that you are paying the fees for the weeks you are going to use.
 

timeos2

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Having paid fees for years through Marriott and II, I see this as a huge plus.

I do think I'd like to stay in the II world....call it fear of the unknown. So, in order to do that, I have to make sure that I buy my first wyndham from one of the few wyndhams hooked up through II, right?

The usage year thing is very confusing when you factor in monthly fees. Yearly fees, even if paid at different times of the year, make it much easier to know that you are paying the fees for the weeks you are going to use.
Yes, you'd need to buy at one of the II affiliated resorts (there are a few with Star Island having the lowest cost resales and fees currently).
As for the fees I know many Wyndham owners seem to pay them monthly but ours have always been billed and paid annually. We didn't ask for that it just happened. If it was a monthly billing you wouldn't start to be responsible until the account transfer - thus your right to use it - was complete. With Wyndham that can easily be 3 and up to 6-8 months from the purchase. They aren't good at recording sales.
 

mshatty

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Having paid fees for years through Marriott and II, I see this as a huge plus.

I do think I'd like to stay in the II world....call it fear of the unknown. So, in order to do that, I have to make sure that I buy my first wyndham from one of the few wyndhams hooked up through II, right?

Final question, and again, this is huge help from everyone....these maintenance fees bill monthly, not yearly? If someone is selling points that are good from Apr 08-Mar 09, for example....if I buy it today, do the monthly fees just start coming to me now? I guess my question is, when do I start paying the fees, and if I get stuck with a few extra months worth of fees, is that just something I live with?

The usage year thing is very confusing when you factor in monthly fees. Yearly fees, even if paid at different times of the year, make it much easier to know that you are paying the fees for the weeks you are going to use.
When you first buy a Wyndham, you can set up your payment of MF on a monthly or annual basis. If annual, you can pick the month you want to pay in.
 

bnoble

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I guess my question is, when do I start paying the fees, and if I get stuck with a few extra months worth of fees, is that just something I live with?
It depends on the precise arrangement that buyer and seller agree to. If a seller insists on charging me "extra" MFs, I just consider that part of the acquisition costs, and man a purchase offer with that in mind.
 

GeNioS

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Ok, this one's been bugging me....why is that on eBay, some Wyndham resorts get bids and others don't. I see 154k point auctions go without bids while people bid up 77k point auctions somewhere else.

I think (correct me if I'm wrong) I've seen Grand Desert 154k auctions go up over $1,000 but other resort 154k go unsold for $99. Isn't 154k ..... 154k? I can use the 154k from anywhere to stay in Vegas if I want to, right?

Is there that big of a difference in maintenance fees? Even if there is, say a $100 difference in maintenance fees, it would take you nine years to make up the difference between paying $99 and $1000.

Doesn't make any sense to me....
 

joestein

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Ok, this one's been bugging me....why is that on eBay, some Wyndham resorts get bids and others don't. I see 154k point auctions go without bids while people bid up 77k point auctions somewhere else.

I think (correct me if I'm wrong) I've seen Grand Desert 154k auctions go up over $1,000 but other resort 154k go unsold for $99. Isn't 154k ..... 154k? I can use the 154k from anywhere to stay in Vegas if I want to, right?

Is there that big of a difference in maintenance fees? Even if there is, say a $100 difference in maintenance fees, it would take you nine years to make up the difference between paying $99 and $1000.

Doesn't make any sense to me....
It can depend of a number of factors. Maintenance $/per point can vary, and many will pay more for a low mainteance $/point than points with a higher $/point. In addition, I don't think too many people are interested in the mexican wyndham resorts.

Joe
 

timeos2

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Fees play a role

Is there that big of a difference in maintenance fees? Even if there is, say a $100 difference in maintenance fees, it would take you nine years to make up the difference between paying $99 and $1000.

Doesn't make any sense to me....
Some people will avoid resorts - even though "points are points" due to the fees. Long term that isn't a very good plan as no resort has guaranteed fees. In fact you can safely say the lower the fee the better the chance it will go up and/or the resort will have a special assessment. Wyndham has, like most developers, a history of underfunding reserves in the early years thus leading to SA in the 7-10 year of a resort life. It's just the way they do it and they are not alone. Buying based on the current fees guarantees you nothing for what those fees will be in a year or two. On the other hand a case can be made that at the resorts that have been through the increases/SA's the fees will be steady going forward. But that comes down to your own philosophy regarding ongoing fees. Not at all unique to Wyndham.
 
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