Marriott Stockholm Syndrome and questions about resale points/weeks

[win555]

Starting a separate thread so as not to go OT in the other one.

I bought Marriott resale (weeks and points) and all my weeks are enrolled in the MVC DP program. I was not happy with weeks but I really do like the DP program. It is expensive, even resale.

How does one buy resale weeks and convert them to points?

Is it possible to enjoy the Marriott system without paying any money to the developer? Are most of the happy Marriott owners people who purchased from developer? Perhaps there a bit of Stockholm syndrome going on?

Let me know if you are a resale buyer and happy with Marriott.

 

[TXTortoise]

Lots of threads, but might start with this recent thread for options on how to enroll resale weeks you now own. Essentially you need to buy X amount of points retail to enroll Y weeks. In addition to a pure points purchase, a number of folks on here have purchased Aruba, and other qualified, weeks plus a lesser number of pure points, as those weeks count as part of the total points required.

Search: hybrid purchase, enroll weeks

External Week Enrollment Offer starts again

How do you get to this value? Can an owner rent out these Plus points? It sounds like they are valid for a few years - do they have a particular use year if you do rent them out? If you can't rent them out, do you just assume they are worth the hypothetical rental value you can't realize...

tugbbs.com

 

[TravelTime]

Starting a separate thread so as not to go OT in the other one.


How does one buy resale weeks and convert them to points?

Is it possible to enjoy the Marriott system without paying any money to the developer?

You are correct. You can buy weeks resale but you need to pay Marriott to enroll the weeks. Before 2010, MVC was charging a small amount to existing weeks owners to enroll their weeks. Now you need to buy more DPs to enroll your existing weeks. Or you can buy a hybrid week and get your weeks enrolled. That is what I did. I bought an enrolled Spain week and MVC allowed me to enroll my Hawaii week. That purchase got me to Presidential level. I already had 7000 trust points that I purchased resale and paid $2 a point to Marriott to enroll. It is not an insignificant amount of money that I have paid Marriott to have my resale points and weeks enrolled. But I have been happy with it. As long as I keep my purchase long term, I will eventually break even. I estimate that in 10 years, I will be better off being enrolled and break even on my purchases. I would never buy an unenrolled week now. We would need to hear from unenrolled weeks owners to get an idea of their level of satisfaction. I am getting curious now.

I still have one enrolled Vistana week at the Westin Maui. I was going to sell it but I am holding it to see if MVC will allow me to enroll it cheaply when they merge MVC and Vistana. I like Vistana as it is because my week is allowed to be exchanged with all the resorts in the Vistana system, like Hawaii, St John, Mexico and Bahamas and all the mainland resorts. If MVC takes away my Vistana trading power, then I assume they will need to enroll my week for free or a low amount because I would be losing services and it would make my week nearly worthless. I would not purchase a Vistana week now because it is all too uncertain. I purchased it before they bought Vistana and was happy with the Vistana trading ability. If you are a risk taker and buy a cheap mandatory Vistana resort, you could gamble to see if they allow Vistana weeks owners to enroll their weeks for free or cheaply. This is the only way I envision a weeks owner to get into MVC without paying the developer a lot of money or to buy trust points to enroll.

 

[win555]

Marriott owners are happy for the most part because they are pleased with the quality and consistency of he resorts as well as the resort locations. When Marriott sold only weeks the only thing the were not able to do is to exchange their week for hotel points. That wasn’t the best value for your week so there really wasn’t a downside to buying resale.

‘Now Marriott only sells points in the US. You can buy points on the resale market but Marriott changes an additional $3 per point on the resale purchase. Once that fee is paid those points have all he same benefits as points bought directly from Marriott.

I don't like this fee. I view it as rent seeking behavior.

Rent-seeking - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So you’re correct in not being an owner, it’s hard to understand why owners like it so much. However like all other timeshare owners we don’t like having t pay that maintenance fee each year. We do at least knowing that whatever property is it’s well maintained and provides great accommodations. I can’t say that for my other timeshare Diamond Resorts.

Understood. You like what you get for your fees. Even though they may be high, you feel you get great value for them.

If you are a risk taker and buy a cheap mandatory Vistana resort, you could gamble to see if they allow Vista weeks owners to enroll their weeks for free or cheaply. This is the only way I envision a weeks owner to get into MVC without paying the developer a lot of money or to buy trust points to enroll.

Ok. So maybe I should look into buying a resale Vistana I can use in the interim. If they let me enroll the week, then great. If they don't then I will sell or give it back to the developer. Trouble is there isn't a location I want to go every year, so I might not be able to make this plan work.

 

[TravelTime]

I don't like this fee. I view it as rent seeking behavior.

Rent-seeking - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Understood. You like what you get for your fees. Even though they may be high, you feel you get great value for them.



Ok. So maybe I should look into buying a resale Vistana I can use in the interim. If they let me enroll the week, then great. If they don't then I will sell or give it back to the developer. Trouble is there isn't a location I want to go every year, so I might not be able to make this plan work.

Yes, you get the idea. You need to buy a mandatory week in Orlando (only some are mandatory), Hawaii, St John (Virgin Grand aka hillside), Kierkland and possibly one more location. These are the only ones that can trade with Star Options so you are not really buying into one location. You can trade into all the locations using Star Options (both mandatory and involuntary resorts...I think that is what they call the resorts that do not trade with SOs, like Cancun). Many people buy into Vistana with one of the Orlando properties to use as a trader. I chose Westin Maui even though it is expensive because I want to choose a place I might go or trade it using SOs if I did not want to go. But many people think Maui is too expensive to use as a trader. I bought a WKOVR-N 2 bedroom oceanfront odd years for about $12K that comes with about 176K Star Options. It is a lock off so I can use half and deposit the rest of the points to trade into another resort. It is enough points to get two weeks at my home resort in a one bedroom and a studio in Maui or two weeks anywhere else including Hawaii if I trade using SOs. So in effect, I could have an annual vacation in a one bedroom if I want. I thought that was a good deal. I suspect you are not looking to spend that much money so other options will probably be better for you. Not all the Orlando locations are mandatory so you need to find out which ones are allowed to exchange in Star Options.

If you are a real gambler, you could buy or get a free involuntary Vistana week and pray they allow cheap enrollment. Many Vistana owners are hoping MVC will also allow enrollment of involuntary resorts. Some people think they might enroll Lagunamar in Cancun because they think Mexico is valuable inventory for MVC, given Marriott has no resorts in Mexico. Lagunamar is a beloved property by its owners. I have not yet been there but I almost traded into it using Star Options last year. The problem is if you buy Lagunamar you would need to visit every year unless you can find an EOY unit. That is why you can find really cheap Lagunamar weeks. It is difficult for an owner to rent the week in Cancun because there is too much hotel competition. Many owners return to Lagunamar again and again. Buying that with the hope that MVC will allow cheap enrollment is a gamble. Even if MVC allows cheap enrollment, then you need to gamble on how many DPs the resort will be worth. You can guess that by comparing the SO charts to the MVC DP charts to get an idea of what the various properties are getting in similar locations. Comparing Hawaii in both systems, for example, is relatively easy because both systems are in Hawaii and the units are mainly comparable as I describe below.

So far, we have only visited Westin Maui within the Vistana network. I liked the size of the unit, the view was phenomenal, the beach was great, but there were no stores or restaurants in walking distance. On that same trip, we stayed at Marriott Maui just about a mile away. I liked the units better but they were smaller. Westin Maui had no artwork and the decor was bland. The colors in the Westin Maui unit were olive and neutrals. It was depressing but the view made up for it. We were in a the south building with a huge lanai and panoramic views. It was the best Hawaii view we have ever had. Without the view, though, we could have been anywhere in the world. OTOH, Marriott Maui had distinctly Hawaii decor and artwork and it was colorful. The view was called oceanfront but it was not on the ocean. It was set back behind the pool. I can‘t complain about the view. It would have been stunning if we had not had a true oceanfront view at the Westin first. If you like a little action, Marriott Maui is better because there is a mall with restaurants and shopping within walking distance. OTOH, if you are looking for a great beach, the Westin is better. The beach is not great in front of Marriott. In fact, it is not swimmable IMHO. The beach gets better as you leave the Marriott property. Also the Marriott is very crowded. Westin was peaceful and spread out. I think I have gone on a tangent but someone will find this comparison interesting.

 

[bazzap]

As both a Weeks Developer and Resale purchase owner, we are very happy with what we have.
All of our Developer purchases, along with all of our pre cut-off date Resale purchases are enrolled in the Points programme.
Our more recent Resale purchases are not, but we consciously bought those at very low prices knowing that we wanted to use them for home resort stays every year.
Covid-19 impact apart, this works just as we expected and for us we don’t feel like we are missing out on anything by these Weeks not being enrolled.

 

[csalter2]

I don't like this fee. I view it as rent seeking behavior.

Rent-seeking - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

No one likes that fee. They consider it your entry fee to place them into the Club.

Understood. You like what you get for your fees. Even though they may be high, you feel you get great value for them.

I like having a pretty good idea of what I’m going to get when I open the unit door. Marriott has never disappointed. With my Diamond timeshare and I’ve been to some Worldmark vacations and the quality of resort can vary.

Ok. So maybe I should look into buying a resale Vistana I can use in the interim. If they let me enroll the week, then great. If they don't then I will sell or give it back to the developer. Trouble is there isn't a location I want to go every year, so I might not be able to make this plan work.

 

[bizaro86]

Marriott's fees are absolutely rent seeking. But given the huge difference between retail price and resale price, there can still be consumer surplus for a resale owner.

I'm not a huge fan of MVC for a variety of reasons, mostly those fees and the way they have treated customers during crisis (hurricanes and covid).

But they dont have extra fees for short stays (reservation/housekeeping fees) which are common. That makes using DC points for multiple short trips potentially attractive.

 

[win555]

Our more recent Resale purchases are not, but we consciously bought those at very low prices knowing that we wanted to use them for home resort stays every year.
We don’t feel like we are missing out on anything by these Weeks not being enrolled.

Interesting. May I ask how did you find this low price?

 

[win555]

Marriott's fees are absolutely rent seeking. But given the huge difference between retail price and resale price, there can still be consumer surplus for a resale owner.

I'm not a huge fan of MVC for a variety of reasons, mostly those fees and the way they have treated customers during crisis (hurricanes and covid).

But they dont have extra fees for short stays (reservation/housekeeping fees) which are common. That makes using DC points for multiple short trips potentially attractive.

It would take a lot of savings from those fees to pay for that $3 per point fee! Not sure what the IRR on that fee is.

 

[Mroze]

Interesting. May I ask how did you find this low price?

Marriott & Vistana just like many other resort chains have Low-Value & High-Value weeks based on location and season.

Thus you can find Marriott-Weeks for $20K and some for $0. Some will even pay you to take it.
Same thing with Vistana, you can pay north of $20K for a Westin Maui [$60K for Christmas/New-Year Fixed-Week], or $15K for a Westin Kierland and pay $0 for a Harborside, Bahamas. And yes these are all resale prices.
Like @TravelTime mentioned earlier. MF in Hawaii are north of $2600 for 148100-SO while its $1600 for Westin Kierland.

BTW: These are the VSN Mandatory-Resorts.
Expect to pay Top$ for these units as they hold their resale value and trade like Direct-Purchase within VSN. However, this may change once MVCI integrates VSN shortly.
The prices also vary by season. Kierland GOLD 2BR-EY can be found for $2000 but a PLATINUM+ goes for $15K.

 

[bazzap]

Interesting. May I ask how did you find this low price?

We bought from the European Resale brokers where we live and just waited until they offered prices we were happy to pay.
The initial purchase price is one thing, but the ongoing annual Maintenance Fees are of course the same whatever your purchase price.
For most resorts though the Maintenance Fees for weeks can be significantly cheaper than the Maintenance Fees for the equivalent number of points.

 

[TravelTime]

Marriott & Vistana just like many other resort chains have Low-Value & High-Value weeks based on location and season.

Thus you can find Marriott-Weeks for $20K and some for $0. Some will even pay you to take it.
Same thing with Vistana, you can pay north of $20K for a Westin Maui [$60K for Christmas/New-Year Fixed-Week], or $15K for a Westin Kierland and pay $0 for a Harborside, Bahamas. And yes these are all resale prices.
Like TravelTime mentioned earlier. MF in Hawaii are north of $2600 for 148100-SO while its $1600 for Westin Kierland.

BTW: These are the VSN Mandatory-Resorts.
Expect to pay Top$ for these units as they hold their resale value and trade like Direct-Purchase within VSN. However, this may change once MVCI integrates VSN shortly.
The prices also vary by season. Kierland 2BR GOLD 2BR-EY can be found for $2000 but a PLATINUM+ goes for $15K.
View attachment 22353

Great summary of Vistana. I could not remember what the mandatory traders were. So Orlando is Bella and Key West only. I could not remember which phases were mandatory. Thanks for clearing that up. I knew I missed one mandatory resort and that was Harborside at Atlantis. Is it possible to get a good mandatory resort at Harborside for close to zero? I think I never looked into Harborside because their maintenance fees are really the highest in the system. Plus I live in California so Hawaii is easier to get to. But maybe Harborside will work for @win555.

 

[TravelTime]

It would take a lot of savings from those fees to pay for that $3 per point fee! Not sure what the IRR on that fee is.

I am lucky in that I just met the deadline to enroll my resale DPs for $2 pp. MVC increased it while I was in closing. My closing company negotiated for me to get an exception since I started the purchase before their announcement. It saved me $7K in enrollment fees. But I still paid $14K plus the cost of the resale points to enroll my resale DPs. All in, 7000 DPs cost $35K. About $5 pp. This was cheaper than a hybrid package (which can range from $6.50 to $8 pp) and about half to 1/3 the cost of purchasing from the developer. So I was happy. Like I said, it will take about 10 years to break even. I plan to hold and use for longer that that. The big negative to buying resale is the process. It took about 3-4 months to close on this purchase. We ran into every stumbling block imaginable. It almost did not close and we almost missed the deadline for the lower enrollment fee. I was stressed during the last month, calling the closing company and MVC nearly every day. That is the biggest problem with buying resale, IMO. In your case, you could be in process of closing on a Vistana trader when MVC announces the integration and need to ask for an exception to get the enrollment deal. I think with Covid going on, this is unlikely to happen in 2020. I suspect the integration is on hold until Marriott recovers. I see the integration happening when Covid goes away and MVC is ready to re-market the DP program. I bet they are using this time to get the integration ready so they can make a big comeback post-Covid. The benefit for owners, IMO, is Covid may cause MVC to be more generous to get new owners in and to get Vistana weeks into the trust. Hence, it might be a good gamble to make if you can find the right Vistana resale week that you would be able to resale if you do not like the enrollment offer.

 

[Mroze]

Great summary of Vistana. I could not remember what the mandatory traders were. So Orlando is Bella and Key West only. I could not remember which phases were mandatory. Thanks for clearing that up. I knew I missed one mandatory resort and that was Harborside at Atlantis. Is it possible to get a good mandatory resort at Harborside for close to zero? I think I never looked into Harborside because their maintenance fees are really the highest in the system. Plus I live in California so Hawaii is easier to get to. But maybe Harborside will work for @win555.

Yes you can purchase Harborside for $0.
However, I would not purchase Harborside cause they have even higher MF than Hawaii.
We have been to Harborside 4-Times in the last 7-Years by exchanging a little over 1xWKV-2BR-Unit [153100-SO] for 12-Nights in a 2BR-PREMIUM [1367-SqFt 8-People].
Thus I incurred about $1700-MF as opposed to $7K in Harborside-MF.
We have also been to every Marriott & Westin on every island in Hawaii via Interval exchanging a Studio/1BR for 2BR/3BR-Units.

In addition I look for resorts with PLATINUM+ season as they accrue 148100-SO but pay the same MF as GOLD. Which is why I did not consider Sheraton, Orlando.
Following table, shows how you can pay $1600 for a 2BR-EY GOLD and accrue 56300-SO while you can pay the same $1600 for a 2BR-EY PLAT+ and accrue 148100-SO.
I recommend paying more upfront [High-CapEx] purchasing a PLAT+-Unit [e.g. $15K versus $5K] and accruing 3x the SO for life with the exact same OpEx.

 

[TravelTime]

Yes you can purchase Harbrside for $0.
However, I would not purchase Harborside cause they have even higher MF than Hawaii.
We have been to Harborside 4-Times in the last 7-Years by exchanging a little over 1xWKV-2BR-Unit [153100-SO] for 12-Nights] in a 2BR-PREMIUM [1367-SqFt 8-People].
Thus I incurred about $1700-MF as opposed to $7K in Harborside-MF.
We have also been to every Marriott & Westin on every island in Hawaii via Interval exchanging a Studio/1BR for 2BR/3BR-Units.

In addition I look for resorts with PLATINUM+ season as they accrue 148100-SO but pay the same MF as GOLD. Which is why I did not consider Sheraton, Orlando.
Following table, shows how you can pay $1600 for a 2BR-EY GOLD and accrue 56300-SO while you can pay the same $1600 for a 2BR-EY PLAT+ and accrue 148100-SO.
I recommend paying more upfront [High-CapEx] purchasing a PLAT+-Unit [e.g. $15K versus $$5K] and accruing 3x the SO for life with the exact same OpEx.
View attachment 22354

Yes, I agree. I purchased Maui because I might use it most years and it was an odd year but I like the flexibility of getting SOs when I do not want to go. I get 176K SOs every odd years, which is enough for me to take 2 vacations in a one bedroom if I want. So that is 2 vacations on one relatively high MF. But it works for me.

Given your analysis, is it possible to buy a platinum week at Harborside for $0, even thought it has the highest MFs in the system? How many SOs does a platinum 2 BR get? Maybe it is worth the MF if you get a ton of SOs for the price? Like my case with Maui. I heard it is hard to rent Harborside expect during holidays. That is another negative to owning Harborside not to mention the high annual MFs. It is a desirable resort to visit because it can be hard to trade into with SOs. I once got a May trade into Harborside using SOs but it was hard to get. Then we canceled because we went elsewhere. I have never been able to get an SO exchange into Harborside. With the Bahamas being one of the first Caribbean destinations to open up with testing, I bet demand for Harborside is even higher now.

 

[Mroze]

Yes, I agree. I purchased Maui because I might use it most years and it was an odd year but I like the flexibility of getting SOs when I do not want to go. I get 176K SOs every odd years, which is enough for me to take 2 vacations in a one bedroom if I want. So that is 2 vacations on one relatively high MF. But it works for me.

Given your analysis, is it possible to buy a platinum week at Harborside for $0, even thought it has the highest MFs in the system? How many SOs does a platinum 2 BR get? Maybe it is worth the MF if you get a ton of SOs for the price? Like my case with Maui. I heard it is hard to rent Harborside expect during holidays. That is another negative to owning Harborside not to mention the high annual MFs. It is a desirable resort to visit because it can be hard to trade into with SOs. I once got a May trade into Harborside using SOs but it was hard to get. Then we canceled because we went elsewhere. I have never been able to get an SO exchange into Harborside. With the Bahamas being one of the first Caribbean destinations to open up with testing, I bet demand for Harborside is even higher now.

Just checked and there are many on RedWeek.
Here is one on RedWeek.
2BR-EY PLATINUM [148100-SO] Mandatory-Week [MF: $3400/Year] for $0.

Harborside Resort at Atlantis Resale $0

Paradise Island, Bahamas / Posting R887795

www.redweek.com

Right now there are about 20-Units at Harborside available on Interval for Sep/Oct which is hurricane season.
We have always traveled to Harborside in Jul/Aug as school is out for summer and the water is warm. Have not had problems booking 8-Months out using SO.

 

[TravelTime]

Just checked and there are many on RedWeek.
Here is one on RedWeek.
2BR-EY PLATINUM [148100-SO] Mandatory-Week [MF: $3400/Year] for $0.

Harborside Resort at Atlantis Resale $0

Paradise Island, Bahamas / Posting R887795

www.redweek.com

Right now there are about 20-Units at Harborside available on Interval for Sep/Oct which is hurricane season.
We have always traveled to Harborside in Jul/Aug as school is out for summer and the water is warm. Have not had problems booking 8-Months out using SO.

Harborside Platinum comes with 148K SOs. Maui comes with 176K SOs for a lower MF. I think that also swayed me to Maui but I did not take into account I could buy it for $0. I paid about $12K for an odd week. But I knew I would rarely travel to the Bahamas from California. Frankly, I think the Bahamas would be a one time trip from California while Hawaii could be annually. Also Maui is good year round. The Bahamas would be seasonal for me. So I think I made the right decision for my needs.

For @win555 to take a gamble, maybe buying Harborside Platinum for $0, paying one year of MFs, giving MVC through 2021 to see if they integrate, then selling in 2021 or possible 2022 if there is still no integration or he does not like the enrollment offer. Maybe this works but it is a lot of if’s. And the MF is high. It would be like paying $3400 for the week if he needs to pay one year of MFs but the upfront cost is $0. I doubt it is worth 2 years of MFs to wait it out. Then the costs gets close to $7K. Still less than buying a platinum week at Kierland for $15K. But it sounds like @win555 wants to buy for $0 and get low MFs and get cheap enrollment into MVC. This is a big gamble and could end up costing a lot more to speculate.

 

[TravelTime]

Just checked and there are many on RedWeek.
Here is one on RedWeek.
2BR-EY PLATINUM [148100-SO] Mandatory-Week [MF: $3400/Year] for $0.

Harborside Resort at Atlantis Resale $0

Paradise Island, Bahamas / Posting R887795

www.redweek.com

Right now there are about 20-Units at Harborside available on Interval for Sep/Oct which is hurricane season.
We have always traveled to Harborside in Jul/Aug as school is out for summer and the water is warm. Have not had problems booking 8-Months out using SO.

I do not like traveling during hurricane season to the Caribbean. It is too uncertain. I grew up in Miami and I am very familiar with hurricane season. I like traveling to the Caribbean from May-July. That is shoulder season so weather is great, costs are lower and water is warm. I do not travel to the Caribbean in high season either because it is too expensive and I think the water is too cold before May. Remember, I grew up in Miami so anything below 80 water temperature is cold for me. I recall looking at the SO chart for Harborside and SOs go up in the summer. So it looked my my sweet spot with SOs for a 1 Bedroom was May. That is why I always have tried to get there in May using SOs. May is possible but I think it is a sweet spot for many traders.

 

[Mroze]

Harborside Platinum comes with 148K SOs. Maui comes with $176K SOs for a lower MF. I think that also swayed me to Maui but I did not take into account I could buy it for $0. I paid about $12K for an odd week. But I knew I would rarely travel to the Bahamas from California. Frankly, I thunk the Bahamas would be a one time trip from California while Hawaii could be annually. So I think I made the right decision for my needs.

For @win555 to take a gamble, maybe buying Harborside Platinum for $0, paying one year of MFs, giving MVC through 2021 to see if they integrate, then selling in 2021 or possible 2022 if there is still no integration or he does not like the enrollment offer. Maybe this works but it is a lot of if’s. And the MF is high. It would be like paying $3400 for the week if he needs to pay one year of MFs but the upfront cost is $0. I doubt it is worth 2 years of MFs to wait it out. Then the costs gets close to $7K. Still less than buying a platinum week at Kierland for $15K. But it sounds like @win555 wants to buy for $0 and get low MFs and get cheap enrollment into MVC. This is a big gamble and could end up costing a lot more to speculate.

If you compare Apples-Apples.
You purchased KAN-2BR-EY 88000-SO for $12K [MF: $2600] while you can purchase HRA-2BR-EY 148100-SO for $0 [MF: $3400].

 

[TravelTime]

If you compare Apples-Apples.
You purchased KAN-2BR-EY 88000-SO for $12K [MF: $2600] while you can purchase HRA-2BR-EY 148100-SO for $0 [MF: $3400].

Yes that is true. It is not a good deal to buy an annual. The upfront cost is $20K+ with $2600 in MFs per year. I bought an EOY in Maui for $12K upfront with 176K SOs with a MF of $2800 for the north side oceanfront. I look at it as 2 weeks in a 1 bedroom for $2800 because I lock it off and get a second week somewhere with the remaining SOs. I travel with my husband and we like 1 bedrooms. We will not stay in studios. So the way I look at it we are paying $1400 a week to stay in Hawaii. That is a great deal for Hawaii. I would only trade using maui SOs for the resorts with higher MFs like St John and Harborside. The rest of the resorts would be a bad deal for my fees. Plus I do not like the rest of the locations. I am a beach gal. The only other location that is a deal for me would be a 1 bedroom in Lagunamor during May. I can get a 1 bedroom oceanfront for 44K SOs in May. I like May in Mexico because the crowds are gone and the temperature is nice.

 

[Mroze]

Yes that is true. It is not a good deal to buy an annual. The upfront cost is $20K+ with $2600 in MFs per year. I bought an EOY in Maui for $12K upfront with 176K SOs with a MF of $2800 for the north side oceanfront. I look at it as 2 weeks in a 1 bedroom for $2800 because I lock it off and get a second week somewhere with the remaining SOs. I travel with my husband and we like 1 bedrooms. We will not stay in studios. So the way I look at it we are paying $1400 a week to stay in Hawaii. That is a great deal for Hawaii. I would only trade using maui SOs for the resorts with higher MFs like St John and Harborside. The rest of the resorts would be a bad deal for my fees. Plus I do not like the rest of the locations. I am a beach gal. The only other location that is a deal for me would be a 1 bedroom in Lagunamor during May. I can get a 1 bedroom oceanfront for 44K SOs in May. I like May in Mexico because the crowds are gone and the temperature is nice.

My mistake. Yes your MF are half or $1400/Year and not $2600/Year which is great for 7-Nights in a 1BR in Hawaii.
Have you considered Interval for Hawaii exchanges.

INTERVAL
Like I mentioned elsewhere. It is possible to deposit a Studio/1BR with Interval and with Marriott/Westin preference exchange back into a 2BR Marriott/Westin in Hawaii.
In my case I deposit 2 x 1BR-Units [Kierland locks-Off into 2 x 1BR-Units] and exchange for 2 x 2BR/3BR-Units. This equates to $1600 for 14-Nights in Hawaii.
Interval has $0 Exchange-Fees [M-M or M-W], however, I do have to pay an additional $118 [$59x2] for Size-Upgrade fees.

LAUGNMAR
Cancun is awesome. We own 3 x 2BR-EOY-PLAT+ weeks there. Love it there and usually spend 1-Week in Cancun + 1-Week in Playa Del Carmen.
This is one of the few resorts whereby our MF has dropped over the last 5 years.
Currently pay ~$1400/Year for 148100-SO/Year.

 

[TravelTime]

My mistake. Yes your MF are half or $1400/Year and not $2600/Year which is great for 7-Nights in a 1BR in Hawaii.
Have you considered Interval for Hawaii exchanges.

INTERVAL
Like I mentioned elsewhere. It is possible to deposit a Studio/1BR with Interval and with Marriott/Westin preference exchange back into a 2BR Marriott/Westin in Hawaii.
In my case I deposit 2 x 1BR-Units [Kierland locks-Off into 2 x 1BR-Units] and exchange for 2 x 2BR/3BR-Units. This equates to $1600 for 14-Nights in Hawaii.
Interval has $0 Exchange-Fees [M-M or M-W], however, I do have to pay an additional $118 [$59x2] for Size-Upgrade fees.

LAUGNMAR
Cancun is awesome. We own 3 x 2BR-EOY-PLAT+ weeks there. Love it there and usually spend 1-Week in Cancun + 1-Week in Playa Del Carmen.
This is one of the few resorts whereby our MF has dropped over the last 5 years.
Currently pay ~$1400/Year for 148100-SO/Year.

You have the Vistana system and the II system figured out. I do not have the full energy to work the system this way. Maybe when I am retired. I did the best I could for our needs. The reason I do not like to trade with II is because we lose the view and they do not allow us to pay an upgrade fee to guarantee a view. You can upgrade the room size but we do not need bigger rooms for 2 people. A one bedroom is big enough. When I have used II, I usually do end up with a 2 BR anyway since many MVCs are 2 BR minimum. With SOs we also lose the view but we were lucky when we traded into Maui south side and they put us in a true oceanfront room on the highest floor. I knew we were getting oceanfront because I used extra SOs on this trade. But it was a surprise to get the top floor oceanfront with an SO exchange at less than 8 months. We were so happy. I have not yet stayed where we own because when I saw I could trade into oceanfront in the south building in a 1 BR, I jumped on it. On this exchange, I still have 88K SOs left to use by 2022 I think. I want to go to Kauai using the remaining SOs for a week. We won’t get a view at Princeville but the resort is fabulous. My DH loves Kauai the best. As to Maui, the oceanfront 1 BR in the south is the best at Westin Maui. I own at oceanfront north but I hear the units are smaller, the lanai is smaller and it is not truly direct oceanfront. The view is at an angle. It still looks incredible and we plan to stay there in 2021 if Hawaii opens up again. If this Covid thing is still a mess, then I will bank the SOs knowing we lose the views. We won’t go to Hawaii to quarantine for 2 weeks and we do not travel to Hawaii for 2 weeks anyway. We go for 7-10 days. I prefer trading within SO than using II. I like the control of SO over II.

P.S. It is so nice to discuss timeshare systems and travel again. I am so sick of all things Covid related. I have been mainly talking about Covid since travel has been shut down. While post Covid travel is a pain, at least we can discuss among Tuggers how to travel safely post Covid. Thank you!

BTW, where do you stay in Playa del Carmen. Lagunamar is on my bucket list. I have been to Cancun and Cozumel but stayed in hotels pre timeshares. I had considered a 2 week trip to Cancun with a week at Lagunamar and a week at Vidanta Rivera Maya. I have never been to either of these resorts before. I have been to Vidanta Nuevo Vallarta about 3 times. It is fantastic except the sales presentation is brutal. The last two times, I escaped the sales presentation but the anxiety at check in was grueling. LOL

 

[Mroze]

You have the Vistana system and the II system figured out. I do not have the full energy to work the system this way. Maybe when I am retired. I did the best I could for our needs. The reason I do not like to trade with II is because we lose the view and they do not allow us to pay an upgrade fee to guarantee a view. You can upgrade the room size but we do not need bigger rooms for 2 people. A one bedroom is big enough. When I have used II, I usually do end up with a 2 BR anyway since many MVCs are 2 BR minimum. With SOs we also lose the view but we were lucky when we traded into Maui south side and they put us in a true oceanfront room on the highest floor. I knew we were getting oceanfront because I used extra SOs on this trade. But it was a surprise to get the top floor oceanfront with an SO exchange at less than 8 months. We were so happy. I have not yet stayed where we own because when I saw I could trade into oceanfront in the south building in a 1 BR, I jumped on it. On this exchange, I still have 88K SOs left to use by 2022 I think. I want to go to Kauai using the remaining SOs for a week. We won’t get a view at Princeville but the resort is fabulous. My DH loves Kauai the best. As to Maui, the oceanfront 1 BR in the south is the best at Westin Maui. I own at oceanfront north but I hear the units are smaller, the lanai is smaller and it is not truly direct oceanfront. The view is at an angle. It still looks incredible and we plan to stay there in 2021 if Hawaii opens up again. If this Covid thing is still a mess, then I will bank the SOs knowing we lose the views. We won’t go to Hawaii to quarantine for 2 weeks and we do not travel to Hawaii for 2 weeks anyway. We go for 7-10 days. I prefer trading within SO than using II. I like the control of SO over II.

P.S. It is so nice to discuss timeshare systems and travel again. I am so sick of all things Covid related. I have been mainly talking about Covid since travel has been shut down. While post Covid travel is a pain, at least we can discuss among Tuggers how to travel safely post Covid. Thank you!

BTW, where do you stay in Playa del Carmen. Lagunamar is on my bucket list. I have been to Cancun and Cozumel but stayed in hotels pre timeshares. I had considered a 2 week trip to Cancun with a week at Lagunamar and a week at Vidanta Rivera Maya. I have never been to either of these resorts before. I have been to Vidanta Nuevo Vallarta about 3 times. It is fantastic except the sales presentation is brutal. The last two times, I escaped the sales presentation but the anxiety at check in was grueling. LOL

In PDC we have stayed a few times at Vidanta [Grand Luxxe Only] and found both the resort and Grand Luxxe rooms fantastic. After the first one I promised my wife that we never attend another Vidanta Sales-Pitch ever again. However, I relented and attended another one last time to get a 50% discount on the exorbitant Resort-Fees. We have also stayed at the Grand Luxxe in Nuevo Vallarta but trying to avoid Vidanta due to the new Resort-Fees. Have recently been travelling to Cabo and loved Las Residencias [Ocean-Front 3BR with On-Balcony pool] where we stayed twice until we discovered Grand Solmar Lands End [3BR Ocean-Front] that beat any Marriott/Westin hands-down and is our new favorite resort.

 

[turkel]

Interesting how this turned into a Vistana thread. As a Marriott owner you lost me on all the resort abbreviations.

To the OP question: I own all resale weeks. Only 1 is enrolled and I a have never used points to book. I own all lock offs always split and deposit my units in II. I love my Marriott’s. My goal is to pay as little as possible and I get great value from what I own. Fees always increase though. When I bought Shadow Ridge the MF was in the $800 range they are now in the $1600 range. It’s also my only enrolled week, but the DP points I get for my gold week would only get me a studio somewhere else. So II is a much better value to trade in for me.

I have realistic expectations of II. I rarely put in a request. I enjoy the hunt. If you want what you want and want to put in no effort to get it then weeks won’t work for you. You also can’t pick your view with II.

DP are expensive to buy even resale. Some are very happy with their DP. The math just doesn’t work for me. YMMV