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Marriott ROFR Mistake

wvacations

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I am currently in escrow for a Marriott Week that I purchased on Ebay. The closing company informed me that Marriott waived the ROFR on the purchase. For my records I requested a copy of that waiver. When I saw it I noticed that the total purchase price was severely inflated by more than $15,000. The closing company says it was a mistake and that Marriott would have refused regardless of the price. They say they will resubmit with the correct price but that will start the whole process over again. I am concerned that the Title is not clean because of this error. Any ideas?
 

dioxide45

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I am currently in escrow for a Marriott Week that I purchased on Ebay. The closing company informed me that Marriott waived the ROFR on the purchase. For my records I requested a copy of that waiver. When I saw it I noticed that the total purchase price was severely inflated by more than $15,000. The closing company says it was a mistake and that Marriott would have refused regardless of the price. They say they will resubmit with the correct price but that will start the whole process over again. I am concerned that the Title is not clean because of this error. Any ideas?

Title isn't an issue. You would get a deed regardless. Now Marriott recognizing your ownership is the problem. I doubt it was a mistake. Perhaps they were hoping that Marriott would bite on the ROFR and they would be $15K richer. We know that won't happen, but perhaps they had hope.
 

wvacations

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I am worried Marriott, being the company they ahve become, and the bitterness they have towards "resales" might not let me use the unit. I think I should just make them start all over. the extra time is worth the peace of mind.

Why would Marriott not check the county records to make sure that these waivers are not doing exactly what this closing company is trying to do! Maybe I could get in good graces with Marriott (despite being a "resale" whore) if I alerted them to what may be a common theme with this this closing company!
 

wsrobinson

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I think its a moot point because at any price Marriott is not exercising ROFR. I have seen (and heard) about some ridiculous prices and they are just not interested at all.
 

BocaBoy

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I think its a moot point because at any price Marriott is not exercising ROFR. I have seen (and heard) about some ridiculous prices and they are just not interested at all.

Not entirely true. They have again started exercising ROFR on some highly desirable weeks that go for very low prices.
 

sparty

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Not entirely true. They have again started exercising ROFR on some highly desirable weeks that go for very low prices.

Can you cite any recent examples where ROFR has been exercised by Marriott?
 

SueDonJ

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I can't help but think what the outcry would be on TUG if it was Marriott here trying to play fast and loose with the closing papers for something they were selling. There's just no way that this thread wouldn't be eighteen pages long by now with Marriott being badmouthed all over creation!

This is probably what dioxide said, that the closing company inflated the price deliberately so that Marriott would be more likely to exercise ROFR and they'd get a better price. And wvacations, I'd be thinking like you are, that I'd want everything re-started so that there wouldn't be anything that could come back and bite me after the closing.
 

dioxide45

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Not entirely true. They have again started exercising ROFR on some highly desirable weeks that go for very low prices.

Can you cite any recent examples where ROFR has been exercised by Marriott?

There are not many. They have in fact exercised on VERY desirable weeks. By highly desirable, we mean prime ski weeks, and not at ridiculously low prices either.
 

wvacations

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Should I call Marriott Owner services and see what they think about it? I still think the closing company did this deliberately. They were reluctant to even email be back about the "error" and when they did, suddenly it was a different person then I have been dealing with. I would guess I was never suppose to see the ROFR. I am going to make them start all over. Not sure about feedback for the seller, they weren't really at fault, but they choose the closing company. Down side is that clsoing company could decide to get back at me and say Marriott exercised it right and not sell me the unit. They did not get a very good price and would like to re-list the unit. I suppose I could let it close, then inform Marriott of the error and then take up the matter in court with the closing company.
 

ACE1

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How long did the ROFR phase take? I think I would probably re submit just to make sure that down the road there wouldn't be any confusion. We are waiting now to here back on a NCV resale purchase.
 

wvacations

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How long did the ROFR phase take? I think I would probably re submit just to make sure that down the road there wouldn't be any confusion. We are waiting now to here back on a NCV resale purchase.

I took about 5 weeks for the closing company to tell me they had recieved the waiver. In reading the waiver it said that Marriott only have 15 days to to respond.

I contacted a real estate lawyer and he said absolutely I have to have them resubmit the the waiver. If I did not know about it it would be one thing. But knowingly defrauding Marriott could leave me liable for damages for years. His example was charging retail price for every booked week since I knowingly did not give Marriott their right to pay the same price I paid. Guess feedback for the Ebay seller is going to be affected as now I have to wait another 2-3 months. All the good weeks during the season for 2011 will be taken.
 
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MALC9990

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If you are concerned about getting a week booked for 2011 - get the seller (owner) to book the week now and then when the purchase is completed he/she (the seller) can get Marriott to transfer the booking into your name - the seller will have to do that for you.
 

abdibile

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I once bought and the seller/closing company told me no ROFR waivers would be necessary as Marriott is not exercising ROFR at all currently.

After lots of discussions, he still insisted not to send the ROFR request to Marriott.

So I just mailed owner services and told them waht was going on, they sent me the ROFR request form, I returned it (only putting in seller info I knew and left some line empty) and got the waiver letter eMailed directly from Marriott within a day.

I did not pay and ROFR fee or something.

I bought from this seller twice using this help-yourself-approach and both weeks were recognized by Marriott without any problem.

This is exactly what I would do in your case.

If Marriott wants to buy it back, you forward that info to the closing company, if they waive ROFR the closing company does not even have to know that you have the correct waiver letter.
 

richardm

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Marriott charges a waiver request fee. My understanding is that if it is not paid during the closing- they simply attach it to the buyers account when the transfer is completed.

Unfortunately, it's not uncommon for these ebay "closing" agents to lie on the waiver request forms.. It's been happening for years. Generally- they will inflate the price to "avoid" Marriott exercising the right of first refusal..

This is because the property is still in the original owners name- and they are generally unaware of the properties actual value (don't forget that they were told in the seminar that the property was worthless).. The PCC's run into trouble if the resort exercises- because they then pay the seller directly, and the PCC get's cut out of the money from the sale..

It's a dirty business model... Lies upon lies upon lies...
 

abdibile

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Marriott charges a waiver request fee. My understanding is that if it is not paid during the closing- they simply attach it to the buyers account when the transfer is completed.

I did not have a waiver request fee charged to my account.

I think the eBay seller paid $120 in resort Transfer fee, which includes the waiver fee.
 

JanT

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I'm sorry but I have to ask. With your obvious distaste for and apparent distrust of Marriott as a company why are you even interested in purchasing a Marriott timeshare?

I understand that there are some seriously unhappy people because of the new points program. Ok, I can understand that. But, your posts indicates you have serious issues with Marriott - so why buy Marriott? I just don't understand.

I am worried Marriott, being the company they ahve become, and the bitterness they have towards "resales" might not let me use the unit. I think I should just make them start all over. the extra time is worth the peace of mind.

Why would Marriott not check the county records to make sure that these waivers are not doing exactly what this closing company is trying to do! Maybe I could get in good graces with Marriott (despite being a "resale" whore) if I alerted them to what may be a common theme with this this closing company!
 

wvacations

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I'm sorry but I have to ask. With your obvious distaste for and apparent distrust of Marriott as a company why are you even interested in purchasing a Marriott timeshare?

I understand that there are some seriously unhappy people because of the new points program. Ok, I can understand that. But, your posts indicates you have serious issues with Marriott - so why buy Marriott? I just don't understand.

I'll give the shortest answer I can about my mistrust of Marriott, and why I felt the need I have to buy another resale week. Here goes:

18 months After spending $28,000 for a "Life Time" of vacations for 2 weeks (using lock off) that our sales rep sold us, Marriott decides to change the rules. I had the same sales pitch that every other developer purchaser gets. They show how easy it is to split your Platinum Lock Off unit and take 2 weeks vacation any where in the world! Oh the places you will go! And don't forget that you own this for life and have a deed. 2 weeks vacation every year.

I was Maui in on our first exchange on June 20, 2010. We went to the sales presentation after seeing all the balloons and banners for the "enhancements" to the vacation club. The presentation started with, I was lucky to get a Maui exchange and that should have never happened and won't happen in the future! 18 months earlier the world was mine to explore. I has basically told how unfair it was for me to use my Palm Springs Unit and spend a week in Maui. Next I am presented with the point allocated for my Platinum Shadow Ridge Enclaves. Most of the season was skimmed 22% if I wanted the entire 2 BR. If I wanted a Lock Off and a 1BR like the presentation suggested 18 months earlier (remember 2 weeks vacation I was talking about?) the skim becomes 48%. I spend $28,000 and 18 months later I'm short 48% what the first presentation promised. I know I can go to Palm Springs and bought there because it is driving distance and is a great vacation spot. However, we were sold on the premise that we would be able to go a lot of places.

May be that will be available as the new program rolls out, maybe not. No one knows. Marriott has my money, but how long can they keep selling the offseason trust points while telling everyone they are going to Hawaii in the summer? If the point purchasers get frustrated, that makes it harder to sell points. If the week owners are frustrated..........they don't sell weeks anymore.

Back to my presentation on the 20th. Sales rep tells me I just have to spend another $13,800 (1,500 points)and add $600 a year in MF's to be where I was 18 months ago when I paid $28,000 for 2 weeks of vacation. That was the end of our little chat session.

Do I trust Marriott? Not a single bit. Do I like Marriott? Not a single bit. Would I spend another penny on Marriott? Not a chance. So why did I buy another week in Marriott on Ebay? Because I had to protect my $28,000 deed that Marriott has now made valueless! I purchased another Palm Springs MVCI for a fraction of the developer price. Why because if I want to use my $28,000 vacation for a life time, eventually I will have to put in the Points program and suffer the 22-48% skim and be able to book 1 week. By buying another week I only had to spend $1,800 instead of $13,800 to get back to 2 weeks vacations when the II trades dry up. May be throwing good money after bad, but I wasn't willing just throw away the $28,000 after 18 months and 1 Hawaii vacation. Will II trades dry up, who knows. I hope I am wrong and that the trades keep coming. With the resale week I bought after the presentation, I got Hawaii next year. So far so good.

That is why I have 2 weeks with a company I don't trust. Sorry you asked??? Just kidding.
Now the initial post from this tread was for a 3rd week purchased last month on Ebay. The price was ridiculously low (under $1000) doe White Season Palm Springs. Worst case I visit Palm Springs in October or give it away for Christmas gifts!
That's the short answer on my feeling about Marriott Destination Club!
 

scpoidog

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original question -waiver not needed for recording

when i bought my ts on resale, the seller submitted the rofr, so i actually never saw it, but they said it passed. when i submitted my documents to marriott, it was only the transfer deed and the approval from the state of hawaii. there was nothing i had to submit to marriott w/ the rofr, as it was in their system. if their system number was overstated, and they passed, then that should ok.

good luck.
 

Ann in CA

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I'll give the shortest answer I can about my mistrust of Marriott, and why I felt the need I have to buy another resale week. Here goes:
Club!

Although we bought our first developer week ten years ago, I think many weeks owners feel much the same as you do. In both our Marriott developer purchases, the sales rep emphasized not just trading, but trading up using the lockoff. {At least at Mountainside}

As late as mid June, at Canyon Villas, they were still trying to sell us a week to lockoff, even though I told them I knew a change was coming June 20. The rep had a hard time keeping a poker face, as I had already spouted much of what had been gleaned from TUG. Finally he did let me know (without saying so) that no weeks would be sold after June 20. Of course now that TUG has educated us about resales, we were there primarily to try to pry info from them about the new program. Marriott is not the company we thought we knew anymore!
 

classiclincoln

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Wvacation,

I understand how you feel and had a similar problem when we bought Grande Vista. I'll tell you what I told my friend. Marriott, as a company, is not bad. They have a great reputation in the hospitality business, and run fist class, top notch hotels and resorts. The are great operators. HOWEVER, their sales people in the timeshare division are horrible. We were told the same things you were told ("lifetime of vacations"), and in fact, we will still enjoy a lifetime of vacations through exchanging our weeks. We were also NOT told some very important things, as I suspect most timeshare buyers are not told. We were all told "you can go anywhere you want", but what we were not told was that "it's based on availability, and based on what you own". While Marriott corporate is ultimately responsible, I still believe the company is not intentionally screwing people. Remember, Marriott started in the timeshare business in the mid '80s, and was very successful. Why? Not because they screwed people, but because they carried over their expertise in the hotel industry to the timeshare industry. They still have great properties, but are not the only ones with great properties.

Don't get discouraged; you'll STILL get a lifetime of vacations in great resorts; don't get locked into the "I've got to stay with Marriott" syndrome. Look at the II directory; there are plenty of gold seal resorts that are just as nice as Marriott properties. I'm not telling you not to be pissed, just suggesting that you can still enjoy your property. And, it was a great idea to get the second week, just gives you more vacations in the future.
 

wvacations

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I agree and quite frankly we have had great exchanges so far. I was really just replying to the person that was asking why I bought another Marriott if I distrust them so much. I think the resorts are great and never been disappointed with a Marriott Resort. I do not trust the company however, and it will most likely take a long time to get that trust back. I was a MRD Platinum/Gold Member for years before buying my first T/S with Marriott. Sooner or later I might venture out to a non-Marriott property, but right now I am sticking with them until I can't any longer!
 

wvacations

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Closing company sent me an email that they have resubmited the ROFR to Marriott on Friday. I think that is the best way to proceed. This week marks 2 months since the purchase. Hope it passes the ROFR quickly!
 

ondeadlin

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I can't help but think what the outcry would be on TUG if it was Marriott here trying to play fast and loose with the closing papers for something they were selling. There's just no way that this thread wouldn't be eighteen pages long by now with Marriott being badmouthed all over creation!

This is probably what dioxide said, that the closing company inflated the price deliberately so that Marriott would be more likely to exercise ROFR and they'd get a better price. And wvacations, I'd be thinking like you are, that I'd want everything re-started so that there wouldn't be anything that could come back and bite me after the closing.

Sue and I have disagreed about Marriott-related things multiple times on TUG, but she's 100 percent correct here. I wouldn't be comfortable going through with this purchase, because you could possibly be accused of abetting a fraud. It's probably unlikely that will happen, but why take a chance? Good move making them re-submit.
 
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