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Marriott Points program for Hawaii - need help/advice for potential purchase

zentraveler

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Need some help and advice from Marriott points owners. We are Four Seasons owners (often going through II to trade into Hawaii) and are considering buying into the Marriott points system for the added flexibility.

Given that we mostly want to use our weeks/points (would be for both systems) in Hawaii, what has been your experience getting Hawaii time using Marriott points on any of the islands? We would be in one of the lower points tiers, reserving 12 months out. Usually trade in the January – March months.

Asking here seemed like a better idea than asking the sales staff :).
 

Bill4728

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The smaller units at many of the Marriott resorts in Hawaii can be relatively easy to reserve with MVC pts BUT the large units are a lot harder. Also to get a larger unit with a view can cost a lot of pts.( 3900-4700 for 1 bd ocean view ) and (5500 - 7000 for 2 bd ocean view)

So let us say you buy 2500 pts that means for $30K (or more) with MFs of at least $1250/year you'd need two full years of pts to get one week at an ocean view TS

So I'd look at other ways to get to Hawaii not Marriott points
 
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Tunadavis

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I've stayed at Kauai Lagoons in June twice, reserving at 10 and exactly 13 months ahead. Although the 13 mo res was my second choice since the resort in Poipu wasn't available.

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Not sure what your threshold for trading/flextrading/late booking is, but with a decent Marriot (Plat 2br) you can easily trade into a unit in HI on II. I just got my Waiohai 2nd week with my MGV studio. Bit of work, but not hard.

Earlier, I could see Ko'olina, MMO, MKB and MAW with my Waiohai on instant exchange--some in May and Dec beyond Flex. That's instant, not OGS. The key is Marriott preference. True, some were studios, but that can easily be up-traded inside flex. People complain about late airfares, but I saw little difference in airfare during the 6 mos prior to my Jan vaca.

Heck, I could see studios, 1br, 2br's (some in flex, others not) with my Worldmark on II last night. Marriott pref. is the key.

I'd strongly recommend buying a descent Marriott Plat trader (2br L/o). Use the studio to secure a 'security' reservation (so you can buy plane tickets etc....) and then OGS the 1br into a better unit over time. You can use eplus to upgrade the studio trade into a better unit or second week or second island etc.... inside <59 days. (you could also use the opposite strategy: book early with 1br on OGS and the use the studio to capture a better/2nd week in OGS and/or flex/eplus.

JMHO.
 

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I own a platinum week at Barony Beach and a platinum week at Surfwatch. Each are "worth" 3475 points. I own an additional 2000 points for flexibility. It is a perfect combination as most of the years we use our weeks at our home resorts in the summer and then use the 2000 points to stay in a different resort on HHI over Spring Break. This year, 12 months out, we decided to go to Hawaii. I traded in both my HHI weeks for points and I was able to book a week right away at the Marriott Waiohai in Kauai on Poipu Beach during the week of 4th of July. I was sort of surprised. I was somewhat flexible on what summer week I could take, but they said that was the only week available at that moment so I grabbed it. I banked all the rest of the points for 2017 so we will have tons of options next year. So, I guess my point in all of this is that I had no trouble booking 12 months out even though I think I'm eligible to book 13 months out...we just never get around to making decisions then and then scramble at the 12 month mark, lol!


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GregT

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I just got my Waiohai 2nd week with my MGV studio. Bit of work, but not hard.

That's interesting -- how did you get a Waiohai with a Studio? Was it close to check-in/Instant Exchange for was it from an OGS?

Thanks!
 

zentraveler

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Thank you all and interesting and helpful. We also thought of buying MVC points on the secondary market and know there are some restrictions on what they can do but the sales person we talked to (did NOT do the pitch but went in with some very focused questions and got a great guy to talk to) did not give a very clear answer to this question.
 

GregT

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Thank you all and interesting and helpful. We also thought of buying MVC points on the secondary market and know there are some restrictions on what they can do but the sales person we talked to (did NOT do the pitch but went in with some very focused questions and got a great guy to talk to) did not give a very clear answer to this question.

Zentraveler,

I'm kind of bearish on using DC Points to book Hawaii, because the point requirements are very high. I believe it makes sense when you are booking individual days that are off of a week long reservation that has been rented/traded for/is owned, but I think it's an expensive reservation to secure. If price is not the primary concern, then it is a very flexible system and the point system is terrific for getting Hawaii reservations.

Best,

Greg
 

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That's interesting -- how did you get a Waiohai with a Studio? Was it close to check-in/Instant Exchange for was it from an OGS?

Thanks!

Got nervous (first II trades) and took a WPOVR studio as my security reservation on my II OGS. Flextraded my WPOVR into MAW at 30 days. So, two weeks in Poipu. 1 owned, 1 eplus'd from a studio. In Feb.

Get this: I was sitting in the kitchen eating breakfast with my wife and having a rather protracted discussion about something (chores I'm sure) and let my attention divert from the computer (which I was monitoring/refreshing during the busy morning timeframe). When I looked back 8-10 mins later, I noticed a 2br MKO and a 2br MM1 (yes, villas, not MMO) both had been on the screen staring at me for over 8 mins. They were of course gone when I refreshed. That was in flex, but still over 50 days out. I missed that easy trade.....

I currently have an OGS for the 5* resorts (MOC, MKO, WKORV etc...) with my WM points; got a call from II offering me an MKO studio with 12 months to check-in. I declined....I'm waiting on at least a 1br. I can (occasionally) see 1br's in Dec 2016 when I look (with WM).

It's not that hard.
 

taterhed

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Thank you all and interesting and helpful. We also thought of buying MVC points on the secondary market and know there are some restrictions on what they can do but the sales person we talked to (did NOT do the pitch but went in with some very focused questions and got a great guy to talk to) did not give a very clear answer to this question.

I'll look up and run down the resale points faq's later on for you if you want (It's in my post list somewhere).

short and sweet: Plan on $7 per point (total cost) with a minimum purchase of 1500 points (to be cost effective). Same as Marriott points.

so: $3000 points resale would be 3000x$7 or $21000 (plus about $500 in incidentals).
Current ROFR is believed to be about $5 per point (before fees...) but no one has posted recent numbers AFAIK.
 

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If you only want to use the points for HI, why not buy a resale week at one of the Marriotts in HI?
 

zentraveler

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If you only want to use the points for HI, why not buy a resale week at one of the Marriotts in HI?

Thanks taterhead, GregT and all. Good question about buying a resale week in HI; had the impression that all were being converted to points. But that might be a solution. Because we have been trading into all of the islands on a "luck of the draw" basis and enjoying the variety, I was still in that mindset. But lots of factors to balance. Still not entirely sure what buying Marriott points on the secondary market allows one to use them for - did not get a good sales answer to that.

And to bill 4728's point, the fact that we have the Four Season lock off studio to trade is undoubtedly why we have been matched up so often with MKO, even in very busy owner weeks. Although each time we come I can see more and more why people don't really want these smaller units and developers don't make them anymore. They work for us as only two people, but even for us MKO studios in particular seem poorly designed; the lanais are too small (they seem too small on all of the units) and the kitchens are unnecessarily too small. We just left MKW and even the hotel conversion room had a very efficiently designed small space kitchen with a dishwasher and very well equipped kitchen.
 

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Got nervous (first II trades) and took a WPOVR studio as my security reservation on my II OGS. Flextraded my WPOVR into MAW at 30 days. So, two weeks in Poipu. 1 owned, 1 eplus'd from a studio. In Feb.

Get this: I was sitting in the kitchen eating breakfast with my wife and having a rather protracted discussion about something (chores I'm sure) and let my attention divert from the computer (which I was monitoring/refreshing during the busy morning timeframe). When I looked back 8-10 mins later, I noticed a 2br MKO and a 2br MM1 (yes, villas, not MMO) both had been on the screen staring at me for over 8 mins. They were of course gone when I refreshed. That was in flex, but still over 50 days out. I missed that easy trade.....

I currently have an OGS for the 5* resorts (MOC, MKO, WKORV etc...) with my WM points; got a call from II offering me an MKO studio with 12 months to check-in. I declined....I'm waiting on at least a 1br. I can (occasionally) see 1br's in Dec 2016 when I look (with WM).

It's not that hard.

That's very interesting -- thanks for the feedback. Next year I will be locking off my dedicated trader for the first time, and looking forward to taking it out for a spin. I'm curious to see what I can catch with it. Congrats on your trades those are terrific!

You've had better luck with your WM than I, with respect to MKO. Studios are easy, but I've never once been able to match to a 1BR. Maybe I'll keep trying.....

Best,

Greg
 

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I matched last month for a 1br at mko for dec 2016 using a non marriott 2br week. This was via on ogs. I was surprised to say the least.
Greg try doing an ogs as it might hit. Nothing to lose to start an ogs. I know you hae to pay the $179 but you will use the week for a trade eventually.
 

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The resorts are not being converted to points. Once a person owns a week, they are free to use it yearly, so sell it for a fraction of the initial cost on the secondary market.

The only thing (for the most part) that Marriott is now selling are points that you can use wherever you want. But the weeks that were sold prior to the points things coming out are still deeded weeks.
 

GregT

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I matched last month for a 1br at mko for dec 2016 using a non marriott 2br week. This was via on ogs. I was surprised to say the least.
Greg try doing an ogs as it might hit. Nothing to lose to start an ogs. I know you hae to pay the $179 but you will use the week for a trade eventually.

Frank, that's a great trade, I'm encouraged to see success trading into a 1BR MKO.

I do have a 3BR OGS that's been running since 2009 for MKO, but it's specific to February and October. I typically reset the dates when I reach about six months out from check-in, so maybe I've not been giving it enough time (but i usually have my Feb/Oct reservation by then through HGVC.)

I will have to be a little more patient. Thanks all for the comments on success! (and sorry to hijack the original thread).

Best,

Greg
 

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Thanks taterhead, GregT and all. Good question about buying a resale week in HI; had the impression that all were being converted to points. But that might be a solution. Because we have been trading into all of the islands on a "luck of the draw" basis and enjoying the variety, I was still in that mindset. But lots of factors to balance. Still not entirely sure what buying Marriott points on the secondary market allows one to use them for - did not get a good sales answer to that.

And to bill 4728's point, the fact that we have the Four Season lock off studio to trade is undoubtedly why we have been matched up so often with MKO, even in very busy owner weeks. Although each time we come I can see more and more why people don't really want these smaller units and developers don't make them anymore. They work for us as only two people, but even for us MKO studios in particular seem poorly designed; the lanais are too small (they seem too small on all of the units) and the kitchens are unnecessarily too small. We just left MKW and even the hotel conversion room had a very efficiently designed small space kitchen with a dishwasher and very well equipped kitchen.

How often are you wanting to go to Hawaii? If every year or every other year, I would just buy the Hawaii week you want on the external resale market. Maintenance fees of 2BR units are in the $2100 to $2200 range (1BR less). By contrast, the maintenance fee expense for enough points to book a 2BR in Hawaii are often in the $3000 to $3500+ range. Plus the acquisition cost of points is much higher than buying a resale week.

Unlike most TUGgers, I've never been a fan of the work needed to get maximum value out of exchange company trading, so for an occasional trip to Hawaii, I like the flexibility and availability in the points system - even through the cost is greater than weeks trading. But if I wanted to go to Hawaii every year, I wold buy an EY unit in Hawaii. If I wanted to go every other year, I would buy an EOY unit.

As far as your questions on the Marriott weeks vs points - Marriott themselves no longer sells weeks (except through their resale division - which the sales reps don't mention unless you ask). But Marriott weeks are still available on the external resale market through third party brokers and are much cheaper than the Marriott resale weeks and orders of magnitude cheaper than resale points. Marriott built the points system on top of the weeks system - not in lieu of it.

The advantage of points is ease of booking and flexible-length stays, etc. But if you want to go to the same place frequently, points are an expensive way to do that.
 

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How often are you wanting to go to Hawaii? If every year or every other year, I would just buy the Hawaii week you want on the external resale market. Maintenance fees of 2BR units are in the $2100 to $2200 range (1BR less). By contrast, the maintenance fee expense for enough points to book a 2BR in Hawaii are often in the $3000 to $3500+ range. Plus the acquisition cost of points is much higher than buying a resale week.

Unlike most TUGgers, I've never been a fan of the work needed to get maximum value out of exchange company trading, so for an occasional trip to Hawaii, I like the flexibility and availability in the points system - even through the cost is greater than weeks trading. But if I wanted to go to Hawaii every year, I wold buy an EY unit in Hawaii. If I wanted to go every other year, I would buy an EOY unit.

As far as your questions on the Marriott weeks vs points - Marriott themselves no longer sells weeks (except through their resale division - which the sales reps don't mention unless you ask). But Marriott weeks are still available on the external resale market through third party brokers and are much cheaper than the Marriott resale weeks and orders of magnitude cheaper than resale points. Marriott built the points system on top of the weeks system - not in lieu of it.

The advantage of points is ease of booking and flexible-length stays, etc. But if you want to go to the same place frequently, points are an expensive way to do that.

Agreed with all, but..... For trivia, apparently Marriott is still selling Aruba weeks. Go figure. No leased units in trust.

My summary, hope it helps:
  • Points are easy, but expensive--especially for high-point HI stays
  • Resale points are easy (good as developer), 30-40% cheaper, but still expensive for HI
  • Resale HI weeks are cheaper, cost effective, tradable, flexible (lock-off) and easy to use/exchange/rent. Not all rent well. Some more expensive than others. MF's on par with points MF's.
    • If you really want the flexibility but not the $12.40 (?) point cost, you can (I think) still buy a HI week from Marriott resellers (broker) and bundle that resale week (EY or EOY, I think) with matching points and end up with an enrolled week (with option to annually elect points or not) and matching DC points. Total points cost is usually around $8/pt or less. Points and week both have value and can be resold on secondary market when done.
  • Resale Marriott weeks (anywhere but HI) are cheaper yet, very cost effective, tradable, flexible (lock-off) but must be exchanged/traded into HI and may or may-not rave rental value. If you're flexible, it's not hard to trade/exchange into HI. If you're not flexible and don't manage the trade/exchange well, you could have problems getting the resort/week you want.
    • Any Marriott brokered resale week can potentially be bundled with a matching number of points for a 'bundle' of enrolled week and points as mentioned above. This would allow for electing points and reserving HI via DVC--which is rel. easy for most properties and all but a few prime weeks (MM1, 51-52 etc.. ). So, lower cost than points or HI/points bundle, lower MF's, points flexibility.
Hope that helps the OP.
IF you're strongly considering a resale points, week or points-week/bundle, don't be scared-off the resale (or Marriott brokered resale). It's not that complicated.

cheers.
 

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Agreed with all, but..... For trivia, apparently Marriott is still selling Aruba weeks. Go figure. No leased units in trust.

My summary, hope it helps:
  • Points are easy, but expensive--especially for high-point HI stays
  • Resale points are easy (good as developer), 30-40% cheaper, but still expensive for HI
  • Resale HI weeks are cheaper, cost effective, tradable, flexible (lock-off) and easy to use/exchange/rent. Not all rent well. Some more expensive than others. MF's on par with points MF's.
    • If you really want the flexibility but not the $12.40 (?) point cost, you can (I think) still buy a HI week from Marriott resellers (broker) and bundle that resale week (EY or EOY, I think) with matching points and end up with an enrolled week (with option to annually elect points or not) and matching DC points. Total points cost is usually around $8/pt or less. Points and week both have value and can be resold on secondary market when done.
  • Resale Marriott weeks (anywhere but HI) are cheaper yet, very cost effective, tradable, flexible (lock-off) but must be exchanged/traded into HI and may or may-not rave rental value. If you're flexible, it's not hard to trade/exchange into HI. If you're not flexible and don't manage the trade/exchange well, you could have problems getting the resort/week you want.
    • Any Marriott brokered resale week can potentially be bundled with a matching number of points for a 'bundle' of enrolled week and points as mentioned above. This would allow for electing points and reserving HI via DVC--which is rel. easy for most properties and all but a few prime weeks (MM1, 51-52 etc.. ). So, lower cost than points or HI/points bundle, lower MF's, points flexibility.
Hope that helps the OP.
IF you're strongly considering a resale points, week or points-week/bundle, don't be scared-off the resale (or Marriott brokered resale). It's not that complicated.

cheers.

I just wanted to clarify that the bundles taterhed refers to above MUST be bought from the Marriott internal resales department in Orlando, not just any Marriott resale weeks reseller/broker. Only the in-house Marriott Resales group can offer the bundles. These are more expensive than pure external resales, and they require the purchase of even more expensive matching points from Marriott, but as taterhed says, the cost is usually under $8/point - sometimes close to $7/point - so they are more cost effective and do give you the option to play in the points system or the weeks system. When we bought into the Marriott system in 2014, that's how we bought in - using a bundle.
 
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taterhed

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Thanks JIMinNC That's Taterhed to you! ;}

Many examples of the resale weeks (which can be bundled) are here on the Marriott (Official) website: these are more expensive than a straight resale https://www.marriottvacationclub.com/resales/index.shtml

Examples of the 'Marriott bundle' resales can be found by searching TUG.
Resale points (aftermarket--not Marriott) are everywhere, but http://www.ownertrades.com/Resale/SearchResales.aspx has some examples (based on $5 ROFR--$7 total)
TUG, Redweek, SethNoc, Syed are all excellent examples of places to find excellent resale weeks (Hi or otherwise).

If you need more links/info feel free to post.
 
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zentraveler

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OP here -- thank you Rob, Greg and all. This is exactly the information we wanted and needed to know. Nothing like sitting in Hawaii (at MKO for this week) trying to figure out how to get back here more :D. We were really curious about the secondary market weeks/points because we understood that we would not get quite the same information from the sales folks here. Rob, the link to Marriott's resale offerings is really helpful. Probably buying a week here is the way to go but lots to ponder.

Mahalo to all.
 
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Look on the marketplace here, or redweek.com, or eBay for resales at the resort you want. It will be much cheaper than the resale from Marriott.
 
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Rob, the link to Marriott's resale offerings is really helpful. Probably buying a week here is the way to go but lots to ponder.

One point - in my opinion, the only compelling reason to buy a resale week from Marriott's internal resale department is if you want to use it as part of a bundle with a matching points purchase. Otherwise their prices are generally much higher than the prices at third-party brokers like those Rob listed above. If you just want a week to use and aren't interested in points, buying from an independent broker will give you the same thing for less. But if you want a Hawaii week AND the ability to use points and the ability to enroll that week, then a bundle from the Marriott Resales Department may be the way to go. Just be advised that with the high point value of Hawaii weeks, the required matching points buy ratchets up the cost significantly.
 
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