Marriott Owners Updates

[davidvel]

You are precisely right in your “throw enough against the wall and see what sticks” philosophy. However, MVW uses metrics to evaluate how many clients generated by each specific marketing channel lead to a sale, how many clients generated by each individual marketing representative lead to a sale, and, ultimately, how many clients it takes for a salesperson to make a sale. It has been a long time since I traveled that road, but I seem to recall that the target closing rate for salespeople was 5–10%, and I believe it was closer to 5%.

Then comes the collision of sales and marketing agendas. The marketing agenda is to generate tours, while the sales agenda is to generate sales. Every now and then, sales and marketing leadership find that sweet spot where they figure out how to generate the right number of tours that lead to the right number of sales.

First and foremost, we have no desire to attend a sales presentation, regardless of my, once, background in sales and marketing. However, I know all too well how a client who is simply “mooching” an incentive from a developer can negatively impact a 100%-commission salesperson. I also know how that “mooch” can diminish a salesperson’s opportunity to make a sale. Therein lies the good and the bad, interspersed with the “throw enough against the wall and see what sticks” approach. There is no doubt that MVW does that. However, rest assured that if a marketing leader decides to open a marketing desk in the lobby of a Courtyard hotel and the tours generated by that channel perform poorly, that leader will feel the consequences—in both their performance metrics and their compensation.

It is a tough business.

My take on the current leadership at MVW is that they are attempting to create additional appeal for clients by offering unique social opportunities that are available exclusively to owners (at top-tier levels). It is a very interesting twist on vacation ownership. It is no coincidence that the current leadership at MVW, implemented this very strategy at Diamond Resorts. The real estate that traditionally served as the foundation of the vacation experience is now being positioned as the basis for both vacations and a variety of social and lifestyle experiences. We have zero interest in the latter. We own our timeshares to vacation, not to attend exclusive events or to feel special.

Only a former salesperson could consider owners that are bribed into an "update" to be moochers. "Taking advantage of generosity."

To mooch means to take advantage of someone else's generosity by getting things (like food, money, or favors) for free, without giving anything in return

 

[dougp26364]

I wouldn't say we've been to any that have really been high pressure either. Most of the time the sales rep is either rude or condescending.

Generally once they see your sheet and realize their is ZERO chance of a sale, they are either pricks, or condescending. On rare occasion they play the cool guy trick acting like you are doing them a favor, with backhanded compliments. Quite entertaining whatever they do.

I think the rude/condescending act is an attempt to get you to stop going. It use to make my wife mad enough we didn’t go. Now she realizes it offsets vet bills, pet boarding or pays for our airport parking when we get home. So far this year they’ve paid for a couple of puppy vaccinations.

 

[Cyvil]

My take on the current leadership at MVW is that they are attempting to create additional appeal for clients by offering unique social opportunities that are available exclusively to owners (at top-tier levels). It is a very interesting twist on vacation ownership. It is no coincidence that the current leadership at MVW, implemented this very strategy at Diamond Resorts. The real estate that traditionally served as the foundation of the vacation experience is now being positioned as the basis for both vacations and a variety of social and lifestyle experiences. We have zero interest in the latter. We own our timeshares to vacation, not to attend exclusive events or to feel special.

I participated in an update meeting last week. Evidently, in August, Marriott will be revamping the ownership tiers with everything above “Owner” receiving upgrades. I don’t care much about the vanity’s type perks like lounge access, but they are making spending points less expensive and making reservations a bit more accessible. I need another 1000 points to reach the Select(?) level where I can, for example, make a reservation 13 months in advance and not pay a 20% surcharge. 1000 points is $18k+ but I still wonder if the cost is worthwhile. Does anyone have thoughts on this?

I also need to figure out if buying more points (resale) is worthwhile. For that, I need to figure out what I want my vacations to look like. At this update meeting I asked about resale points and th rep,said I would wait on days only to find out that Marriott would buy the points anyway. Any truth to that?

 

[DRH90277]

It seems the perception is that the points system is the preferred way to go. Suggestion - have a look at what you could do with a purchase of a few great weeks coupled with Interval and rentals. We own a healthy number of both points and weeks and if asked to give up one or the other, I would give up the points. Check out your options before jumping too far into the points program, a bad move is very costly.

Hypothetical - Do you really want to spend over $55,000 (after the discount) for enough points for a good 1 week 4,500-point vacation. You could purchase that same premium week for well under $15,000 at Newport Coast in the high season. If this doesn't catch your eye, consider that the annual maintenance fees will be about half as much for the owned week.

 

[davidvel]

I participated in an update meeting last week. Evidently, in August, Marriott will be revamping the ownership tiers with everything above “Owner” receiving upgrades. I don’t care much about the vanity’s type perks like lounge access, but they are making spending points less expensive and making reservations a bit more accessible. I need another 1000 points to reach the Select(?) level where I can, for example, make a reservation 13 months in advance and not pay a 20% surcharge. 1000 points is $18k+ but I still wonder if the cost is worthwhile. Does anyone have thoughts on this?

I also need to figure out if buying more points (resale) is worthwhile. For that, I need to figure out what I want my vacations to look like. At this update meeting I asked about resale points and th rep,said I would wait on days only to find out that Marriott would buy the points anyway. Any truth to that?

You can get points for about $3 each resale + $3 MVC fee that MVC will not buy under ROFR. Thus 1000 points would be $6,000 not $18K. No different than buying direct all the same benefits. I think you might want to by 1,500 due to how they are structured, someone else can explain this.

Here is a good thread on ROFR activities on resale points: https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/it’s-rofr-tuesday-1-51-fail.381575/

 

[Cyvil]

It seems the perception is that the points system is the preferred way to go. Suggestion - have a look at what you could do with a purchase of a few great weeks coupled with Interval and rentals. We own a healthy number of both points and weeks and if asked to give up one or the other, I would give up the points. Check out your options before jumping too far into the points program, a bad move is very costly.

Hypothetical - Do you really want to spend over $55,000 (after the discount) for enough points for a good 1 week 4,500-point vacation. You could purchase that same premium week for well under $15,000 at Newport Coast in the high season. If this doesn't catch your eye, consider that the annual maintenance fees will be about half as much for the owned week.

Vacation club was my late wife’s thing, I inherited it and am trying to make do with what I have. My preference is to not spend any additional on timeshares, other than through, maybe, redweek or similar. As I am getting up to speed with what I own, it seems that I am in an odd place in terms of the number of points I have. The perks at the next level (select) seem to be useful, and my current ownership of 3000 points isn’t enough to take a family vacation each year, and now that my kids have all graduated college, I’m not sure they will be up for a family vacation each year.

So, at this point I am exploring my options with the thought of minimizing any future investments in time shares in general. I am not opposed to them, but I do find the financial value of them to be somewhat lacking.

 

[Cyvil]

You can get points for about $3 each resale + $3 MVC fee that MVC will not buy under ROFR. Thus 1000 points would be $6,000 not $18K. No different than buying direct all the same benefits. I think you might want to by 1,500 due to how they are structured, someone else can explain this.

Here is a good thread on ROFR activities on resale points: https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/it’s-rofr-tuesday-1-51-fail.381575/

I can’t remember if I saw it, or was told by an MVC salesperson, but I swear that Marriott doesn’t give the same perks for points bought on the resale market. Are you saying I can buy MVC points from a 3rd party and still receive the perks associated with my new membership level?

 

[jellen613]

I think the rude/condescending act is an attempt to get you to stop going. It use to make my wife mad enough we didn’t go. Now she realizes it offsets vet bills, pet boarding or pays for our airport parking when we get home. So far this year they’ve paid for a couple of puppy vaccinations.

I have not ever felt they were rude or condescending to me or my husband. Perhaps a couple have been a little short with us if we have let them give the whole spiel and then said no. I think they keep inviting us because we did purchase in 2019 to get us to Executive, and then within a day or so rescinded.
As they had applied the equity of our original purchase price, it initially appeared like a good deal. Obviously once we reviewed the numbers it did not make sense. Every sales person mentions that purchase when we sit down with them, and a couple have said they will match the points offer from that date.
Our last 2 presentations have been with very experienced sales persons who were utmost professionals. We have purchased 3 encores in the last 5-6 years. One for NYC (we stayed at the Marriott Marquis which has a concierge lounge), one for Boston, and one for Ocean Pointe. We have seen the value in purchasing the Encores, especially for the Boston property. We had gone to Boston 3 years in a row in the early 2010s, however with the increase in demand, have not been able to book time there.
At the end of our last presentation, they offered us an Encore again at Ocean Pointe ($1200 for 4 nights with either $800 visa gift cards or 120K Bonvoy points). We passed this time.

 

[rthib]

I can’t remember if I saw it, or was told by an MVC salesperson, but I swear that Marriott doesn’t give the same perks for points bought on the resale market. Are you saying I can buy MVC points from a 3rd party and still receive the perks associated with my new membership level?

This is a common half-truth told by salesperson. Resale points once you pay MVC Fee are the same as any other points for status.
Why it is a half-truth is technically if you buy resale points they do not have same perks until you pay the fee, so it is not a complete lie. But everyone will pay the fee.

And now of course with the two never levels, resale do not count, but the amount of points you would have to buy is ridiculous even at resale prices, but I am sure the sales reps with show the language for those two levels to continue to confuse people.

Unless you are buying a bunch of points as part of a hybrid deal to get a lower MF, never any reason to buy points direct

I bumped up to the next level with a 1000 point resale purch so can confirm it.


VacationExchange has a nice calculator

Points Resale Purchase Calculator

And a nice explanation:

1. The Enrollment/Initiation Fee is calcualted at $750 per benificial interest with a $3000 minimum fee. Each beneficial interest represents 250 points in the trust. In the legal document it is also referred to as the Initiation Fee. It is found on Page 15 (Page 16 of the PDF) in Section D - Effect of Transfer of Program Member's Interest. This is contained as part of VII. MISCELLANEOUS of the document. This was last updated on 6.30.2022.

 

[DobieG]

We are relatively new Marriott Owners and vacation at a Marriott Vacation Resort. We' e been asked to attend an "Owners' Update" session for 60 minutes but we have heard that these are really sales pitches and you are pressured to buy more points. Any thoughts or advice welcomed

After declining the “Owners Update” in April we were offered $300 in resort credits so we agreed. We established from the get-go that we (24 years weeks owners on Maui) were not the least bit interested in buying anything and we and the genuinely nice rep proceeded to have a nice conversation about the resort and post-fire Lahaina. The $300 later put a nice dent in the tab for dinner with kids and grandkids. This experience was probably an outlier but it was actually a good experience.

 

[davidvel]

This is a common half-truth told by salesperson. Resale points once you pay MVC Fee are the same as any other points for status.
Why it is a half-truth is technically if you buy resale points they do not have same perks until you pay the fee, so it is not a complete lie. But everyone will pay the fee.

And now of course with the two never levels, resale do not count, but the amount of points you would have to buy is ridiculous even at resale prices, but I am sure the sales reps with show the language for those two levels to continue to confuse people.

Unless you are buying a bunch of points as part of a hybrid deal to get a lower MF, never any reason to buy points direct

I bumped up to the next level with a 1000 point resale purch so can confirm it.


VacationExchange has a nice calculator

Points Resale Purchase Calculator

And a nice explanation:

1. The Enrollment/Initiation Fee is calcualted at $750 per benificial interest with a $3000 minimum fee. Each beneficial interest represents 250 points in the trust. In the legal document it is also referred to as the Initiation Fee. It is found on Page 15 (Page 16 of the PDF) in Section D - Effect of Transfer of Program Member's Interest. This is contained as part of VII. MISCELLANEOUS of the document. This was last updated on 6.30.2022.

It may not be a lie, and may be a half-truth, but it is fraud. Stating facts as true, without including other material facts, knowing the other side doesn't know of, that would make that statement untrue, is fraud in every jurisdiction I am aware of. This would amount to fraudulent inducement, and not covered by any contractual zipper clause language.

 

[cubigbird]

I know they are still pushing the separate points inventory if you elect club points and you can’t see all club points inventory if you don’t purchase points direct.

 

[1Kflyerguy]

We own both MVC and HGVC, and have had mixed experiences with owner updates. Most of our MVC updates have been pleasant, though not always quick. At MOC, one time, we had a salesperson who had just moved over from the Westin. We quickly figured out we had no interest in buying that day, but then just made random small talk until we used up the entire hour, and then brought in the closer.

Most of our HGVC updates have also been pleasant, though once the sales guy started crying when we turned down his offer. He was new, and I was never sure whether he couldn't handle rejection or could cry on demand, using it as a possible sales technique. Our worst experience was in Hawaii, we were still new owners, and I was looking for information about upgrading our ownership. But that possibility quickly went out the door with the horrible deal he presented. Then, after we turned it down, he started negging and insulting me. Basically called me a bad husband in front of my wife for not buying another week. He said a few other things. Not sure if he still works there, but we haven't done an update at that resort since then.

 

[davidvel]

We own both MVC and HGVC, and have had mixed experiences with owner updates. Most of our MVC updates have been pleasant, though not always quick. At MOC, one time, we had a salesperson who had just moved over from the Westin. We quickly figured out we had no interest in buying that day, but then just made random small talk until we used up the entire hour, and then brought in the closer.

Most of our HGVC updates have also been pleasant, though once the sales guy started crying when we turned down his offer. He was new, and I was never sure whether he couldn't handle rejection or could cry on demand, using it as a possible sales technique. Our worst experience was in Hawaii, we were still new owners, and I was looking for information about upgrading our ownership. But that possibility quickly went out the door with the horrible deal he presented. Then, after we turned it down, he started negging and insulting me. Basically called me a bad husband in front of my wife for not buying another week. He said a few other things. Not sure if he still works there, but we haven't done an update at that resort since then.

Wow would be hard to keep fists being flown with that kind of BS. Certainly would have raised voice loud enough for others to come in. F these guys.

 

[pedro47]

I am simply amazed they can sell points at this price. Then again, when they try to get me up to Reserve Level, it will be VERY easy to say it a hard pass for $180,800.dd

dougp26364, who in their right mind would $180,800 for a Marriott’s Reserve Level.

 

[dougp26364]

dougp26364, who in their right mind would $180,800 for a Marriott’s Reserve Level.

Someone with more discretionary income than the average person. Either that or someone with a lot more income than brains.

 

[Big Matt]

I'm Executive right at 7000 points. I was offereed the following: Buy 1500 club points at a discounted price (around $24,000) and get Presidential for 18 months as a trial period and buy the other 1500 points at the end of the trial period to stay Presidential. I declined.

 

[Hindsite]

I'm Executive right at 7000 points. I was offereed the following: Buy 1500 club points at a discounted price (around $24,000) and get Presidential for 18 months as a trial period and buy the other 1500 points at the end of the trial period to stay Presidential. I declined.

Ouch! You can get an enrolled MVC week in Europe for less than that will double the Club points election value.

 

[CPNY]

I wouldn't say we've been to any that have really been high pressure either. Most of the time the sales rep is either rude or condescending.

Like Mike in Orlando? lol

 

[rickandcindy23]

I'm Executive right at 7000 points. I was offereed the following: Buy 1500 club points at a discounted price (around $24,000) and get Presidential for 18 months as a trial period and buy the other 1500 points at the end of the trial period to stay Presidential. I declined.

So the new price is $16 per point instead of $14.17 per point?

The recent offers of $100-150 for a presentation on Maui is an insult to current owners.

It's a particularly low offer to those of us who have gotten 50,000 Bonvoy points for a presentation. Marriott is getting cheap. Is anyone being offered the $300 anymore?

Even our friends said no last month at Marriott's Maui Ocean Club, and they bought Ko Olina direct years ago. And she was interested in more points, so they blew that opportunity.

In the 1990's, Westgate gave us $100 for a presentation, and that was so easy to say no to the salespeople at Westgate, and I wasn't even a TUG member back then. Same with Orange Lake, Vistana, whatever Diamond was before it was Diamond, Welk, and all of the other presentations we attended way back when.

 

[dioxide45]

Like Mike in Orlando? lol

Yeah. My wife and I still, to this day, talk about Mike.

 

[dioxide45]

So the new price is $16 per point instead of $14.17 per point?

The price depends on how many points you are buying. Higher point amounts garner higher discounts. $14.17 sounds like a 20% discount off one of their previous point prices. 1,500 points may only get 10-15%.

 

[jme]

dougp26364, who in their right mind would $180,800 for a Marriott’s Reserve Level.

My friend Pedro47 !!!!! .........in my opinion, the answer to your question should be "no one!!!!"
We just checked into a resort last week and I am Chairman .......BTW, we only have enrolled points, no "REAL trust points", so that's how we are Chairman.....
Not a big deal, really.

I overheard a very demanding lady who was next to us, also in line but already at the desk, and she was in HER 15-minute process of trying to get checked in.
....15 minutes because she wanted this, she wanted that, and she wanted the other thing.
She said out loud, "My husband is playing golf but we are Chairman level, and WE WILL BE RESERVE TOMORROW AFTER OUR UPDATE."
"And furthermore my husband will NOT LIKE THIS." (her "demand of the moment") ..."and HE WILL NOT TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER".

I'm thinking Wow, gotta watch this......

Not sure how it turned out, as they finished with us almost immediately----we're easy.
But when I heard the lady say all that, I said to myself "What fools....More money than sense!" because of the obvious,
i.e., what in the world does that "RESERVE" status give you in reality? More playtoys?
Or maybe the opportunity at their NEXT check-in to say loud & proud, with nose in the air, "We're Reserve!"

Of course she had that very arrogant look on her face that we all know, probably born with it.
And she also had that obnoxious shrill tone to her loud voice (I'm sure the glass windows were about to burst).
I was glad to get out of there, and I'm sure the others were too, whose eyes were rolling like a washing machine drum.
(One other guest in line turned to her husband quietly, touched him on the shoulder, and laughed in the funniest way. It was priceless.)

So, we had a presentation too....yesterday. Got 300 Destination points, and the meeting lasted 35 minutes.
Found out the Chairman level now had been upgraded, lots more new perks.....good, that's fine. But I didn't pay for it.
300 points is about the lowest I'll do to walk across the street, but it'll be helpful because it's almost enough to get half a week in Hilton Head
in January, which we LOVE. We stay 4 weeks so every little bit helps.

 

[CPNY]

I'm Executive right at 7000 points. I was offereed the following: Buy 1500 club points at a discounted price (around $24,000) and get Presidential for 18 months as a trial period and buy the other 1500 points at the end of the trial period to stay Presidential. I declined.

WOW you declined that??? Im sorry to say, but you missed out on the deal of the century.

 

[WBP]

My friend Pedro47 !!!!! .........in my opinion, the answer to your question should be "no one!!!!"
We just checked into a resort last week and I am Chairman .......BTW, we only have enrolled points, no "REAL trust points", so that's how we are Chairman.....
Not a big deal, really.

I overheard a very demanding lady who was next to us, also in line but already at the desk, and she was in HER 15-minute process of trying to get checked in.
....15 minutes because she wanted this, she wanted that, and she wanted the other thing.
She said out loud, "My husband is playing golf but we are Chairman level, and WE WILL BE RESERVE TOMORROW AFTER OUR UPDATE."
"And furthermore my husband will NOT LIKE THIS." (her "demand of the moment") ..."and HE WILL NOT TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER".

I'm thinking Wow, gotta watch this......

Not sure how it turned out, as they finished with us almost immediately----we're easy.
But when I heard the lady say all that, I said to myself "What fools....More money than sense!" because of the obvious,
i.e., what in the world does that "RESERVE" status give you in reality? More playtoys?
Or maybe the opportunity at their NEXT check-in to say loud & proud, with nose in the air, "We're Reserve!"

Of course she had that very arrogant look on her face that we all know, probably born with it.
And she also had that obnoxious shrill tone to her loud voice (I'm sure the glass windows were about to burst).
I was glad to get out of there, and I'm sure the others were too, whose eyes were rolling like a washing machine drum.
(One other guest in line turned to her husband quietly, touched him on the shoulder, and laughed in the funniest way. It was priceless.)

So, we had a presentation too....yesterday. Got 300 Destination points, and the meeting lasted 35 minutes.
Found out the Chairman level now had been upgraded, lots more new perks.....good, that's fine. But I didn't pay for it.
300 points is about the lowest I'll do to walk across the street, but it'll be helpful because it's all most enough to get half a week in Hilton Head
in January, which we LOVE. We stay 4 weeks so every little bit helps.

Marty, was her name, “Karen?"