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Marriott making it impossible to buy/sell resales

frank808

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"An interesting note. Put your current MF cost into a savings calculator at 5% with $0 deposits for 20 years to see where you'll be in terms of costs and what expense you wll be passing on to your family. Make sure to only compound interest annually. Here's one:

$2500 in MF in todays dollars turns into $6633 MF in 20 years.
$12000 in MF in todays dollars turns in $31889 MF in 20 years."

in the above he mentions passing on high MF to family.

If OP is scared of paying $32k in mf, he would have had a heart attack if he saw my Marriott MF bill this past December.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

bogey21

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Back in the late 80s I made the best move I ever made buying a TimeShare Week. I paid $25,000 for a premium Monarch Crown Suite Week. My wife and I and 3 kids used it and loved it for 5 or 6 years. But times changed. When the writing was on the wall that it was getting down to just my wife and I, the annually increasing MFs (2 times regular Monarch units) made it impractical to retain ownership and I sold our Week for over $40,000. If buying the Week was one of my best moves, selling it was an even better one. I can't even start to imagine what the current MFs (both regular and special assessments) would be costing me. The moral of my story is when your Week (or Points) no longer suit your needs, sell immediately. Waiting will not normally improve the outcome...

George
 

VacationForever

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We feel that we pay alot in MF but it is a matter of perspective. We had to cancel a recent cruise due to illness and I am working on insurance claim as I type and I am also tracking refundable costs. Assuming we get everything back, we will feel richer by $14K + 80K Chase UR rewards (one way domestic air fare). We did 2 cruises last year and it came to about $40K including business class airfare. MFs appear cheap all of a sudden.
 

Dean

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Of course they do. The OP made a number of factual mistakes in his post.
Including this one.
So my long rant on all this... Looking forward to hearing yours as well as opposing views.
Thanks also for getting the conversation started. Really do want all viewpoints!!
This smells of troll to me. He creates a new account and swoops in, with a lot of quasi knowledge but poor use and/or understanding of it, or more likely, purposeful misstatement of the information and tries to come across as having inside knowledge. Posts 70 times rapid fire then is gone 2 days later. The feel is that of competitor and/or former disgruntled salesperson or management. It was suggested he might have registered previously with a somewhat similar rant which he laughed off but did not deny. Administrators could likely see if the IP has been used previously though it really doesn't make much difference other than maybe to block it.
 

pwrshift

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Hi Brian,

I know you addressed your post to GregT. I hope you don't mind me weighing in here. ...

Don't mind at all Quilter and so nice to hear from you again after all these years. We had fun back then amassing out MR point base. While I joined the DC club I've never used it. Years have gone by fast and my holiday needs have changed with the recent passing of my wife. Take care, Brian.
 
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SueDonJ

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Don't mind at all Quilter and so nice to hear from you again after all these years. We had fun back then amassing out MR point base. While I joined the DC club I've never used it. Years have gone by fast and my holiday needs have changed with the recent passing of my wife. Take care, Brian.

I'm sorry to hear about your wife, Brian. Peace to you and your family.
 

catvag

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Would like to buy Marriott resales, really would, but every year, Marriott gets more greedy and devalues their own product while simultaneously artificially raising prices. From ~$10 a point a few years ago (at developer cost) to an artificially inflated ~$15 a point today (with absolutely NO market driving the increases except for corporate greed).

If timeshares are deeded real estate and the original purchaser already paid the developer costs. Why does Marriott make it impossible to resell and get back any of your investment? Hyatt, as an example, never did this, it was simply a few hundred $$$ for the transfer fees and the buyer retained all the value. Marriott takes all privileges away from those who buy resales, except the right to stay at home resort.

Deeded timeshares MF go up 3-5% every year like clockwork, often without any precipitating expenses or event driving them -- other than Marriott charging more management fees. Further when Marriott rents deeded timeshares, only 10-15% of these monies are returned to the timeshare system to offset actual costs, while Marriott pockets 85-90% for fees. If 85-90% was instead returned to the timeshare system, MF would actual remain fairly constant.

Points are also supposed to be real estate, but Marriott makes it even harder to resell points and get back any value. Marriott now charges an artificial rate of $3 per point to register resale points (up from an already exorbitant $2 previously). With points, owners are left paying MF on unsold property in the trust, when Marriott would have otherwise have had to pay these expenses. Point MF which were at inception more than deeded timeshares (because points owners are paying MF on property no one yet owns) and have only increased over time. A whopping .58 per point, on the way to .60 for 2020.

With points, two things would dramatically reduce the per point MF. #1 Getting Marriott to foot the bill (as it should have all along) for unused/unsold property in the land trust), #2 Reducing the exorbitant management fees Marriott charges owners. These are examples, there are more of course, but these are some of the reasons Marriott (and other timeshare companies) went to a points-based system. Another: No HOAs for oversight of Marriott mismanagement and overcharges.

Left unsaid another reason for the move to points: Marriott literally has a license to sell AIR (points backed by no tangible property). Marriott can do this because owner use their points for non-property stays: tours, cruises, etc which are the worst use of points as all you are getting back in value terms are your maintenance fees (and completely omitting all the up front monies paid in).

Speaking of upfront costs: Having sat in on quite a few sales pitches, every salesman always tells my family members to forget about the monies they paid upfront and only calculate the cost based on their maintenance fees. As in "your 7-night Hawaii stay is only costing you $300 a night, your saving 60%)" "but what about the money paid upfront" i say. "you've already paid that and got back the value in previous stays" "point of fact: no we havent, in fact, when I calculate all up front costs, MF, and other fees, were paying $800 a night and we will continue paying $800 a night because the MF never go away and only increase over time" "no no that's not how it works, you dont understand the system." REAL CONVERSATION, REAL ACTUAL COSTS.

Points, even at, 50% of developer costs are way overvalued. Primarily because Marriott artificially sets and raises the pricing, but also because Marriott not only rolled out points in the middle of the largest economic downturn in modern history but had the gall to actually inflate point pricing 150% relative to current deeded pricing. AND people lined up to pay it. Head shake.

So my long rant on all this... Looking forward to hearing yours as well as opposing views.
Marriott
 

catvag

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Marriot was "generous" enough to buy back our 3 Hawaii weeks for about 30 cents on the dollar. Now they won't even offer a buy back for Marriott Aruba Surf Club; when we bought there we could use all pool and escape to Ocean Club where we wanted to buy in the 1st place. Now they "voted" on a change so we have to be at crowded Surf Club pool with screaming little monsters and worse parents. Would never buy a Marriott again.
 

Quadmaniac

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Marriot was "generous" enough to buy back our 3 Hawaii weeks for about 30 cents on the dollar. Now they won't even offer a buy back for Marriott Aruba Surf Club; when we bought there we could use all pool and escape to Ocean Club where we wanted to buy in the 1st place. Now they "voted" on a change so we have to be at crowded Surf Club pool with screaming little monsters and worse parents. Would never buy a Marriott again.

With all due respect, Marriott is a business to make money. Any business is there to make money. I think it would be unrealistic for them to buy it back at say 75% when initially the profit margin was probably at least 60%. So they should give up their profit on a sale they made as you changed your mind or changed your ability to use it ? So how would a company survive if their profits can be clawed back whenever someone changed their mind ?

Now at 30 cents on the dollar, they are probably buying it close what their cost was and they can mark it up to resell it again at say 80% of the original price. Again making profit off of it for the labor and established sales system. They are not obligated to buy it all, they are essentially helping you, where they do not have to at all but it is an opportunity for profit so its worth their time. If they are going to resell the product and take the risk of it not selling for awhile and keeping it in stock, would it not be reasonable for them to leave some room for this ? Would you expect this of your car dealership for example if you bought a car from there and wanted to return it to them after using it or your builder who sold you your house ?

In terms of Surf and Ocean Club, that was a benefit that would be subject to change like anything else. Even your usage can change. If you really wanted Ocean Club, that is probably where you should have bought to get what you want. Not trying to down play your complaints, but some of your expectations may not be reasonable expectations of a business. Just my 2 cents on it from both a business owner and a Marriott unit owner & consumer.
 

pwrshift

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I'm sorry to hear about your wife, Brian. Peace to you and your family.

Thanks Sue. It's been a tough time for me, and my adult kids, to adjust to our loss.

Brian
 

Quilter

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Marriot was "generous" enough to buy back our 3 Hawaii weeks for about 30 cents on the dollar. Now they won't even offer a buy back for Marriott Aruba Surf Club; when we bought there we could use all pool and escape to Ocean Club where we wanted to buy in the 1st place. Now they "voted" on a change so we have to be at crowded Surf Club pool with screaming little monsters and worse parents. Would never buy a Marriott again.

I'm curious, what made you go for the Surf Club purchase instead of the Ocean Club?

Can you exchange your Surf Club into Ocean Club via II? Another option would be to turn the Surf Club into DC points and reserve that way?
 

Dean

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Marriot was "generous" enough to buy back our 3 Hawaii weeks for about 30 cents on the dollar. Now they won't even offer a buy back for Marriott Aruba Surf Club; when we bought there we could use all pool and escape to Ocean Club where we wanted to buy in the 1st place. Now they "voted" on a change so we have to be at crowded Surf Club pool with screaming little monsters and worse parents. Would never buy a Marriott again.
Why didn't you just buy OC. Did you not know you could ask and potentially hold out for that option over the SC? One should have known the option to use the other facilities was at risk and not contractual.
 

cyntravel

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Don't mind at all Quilter and so nice to hear from you again after all these years. We had fun back then amassing out MR point base. While I joined the DC club I've never used it. Years have gone by fast and my holiday needs have changed with the recent passing of my wife. Take care, Brian.

So sorry to hear. Prayers to you and your family.
 

brianfox

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We feel that we pay alot in MF but it is a matter of perspective. We had to cancel a recent cruise due to illness and I am working on insurance claim as I type and I am also tracking refundable costs. Assuming we get everything back, we will feel richer by $14K + 80K Chase UR rewards (one way domestic air fare). We did 2 cruises last year and it came to about $40K including business class airfare. MFs appear cheap all of a sudden.
Sorry you had to cancel your trip. I am very interested in knowing how your trip insurance claim goes. Perhaps you can start a thread and share if possible? I purchase every year and always dread the day I have to use it.
 

VacationForever

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Sorry you had to cancel your trip. I am very interested in knowing how your trip insurance claim goes. Perhaps you can start a thread and share if possible? I purchase every year and always dread the day I have to use it.

There are many types of travel insurance plans. I used to buy from Allianz in the first 14 days when I put a deposit down. I made a claim on that 2 years ago when I fell sick on a transatlantic cruise. The claim was doctor's bill and non-refundable excursions. It was fairly painless but the key is to inform the travel agent who sold you the insurance asap.

I buy Marriott travel insurance each year but have not needed to utilize it.

Since we started carrying the Chase Sapphire Reserve card in late 2017, we stopped buying individual travel insurance. It does not waive pre-existing condition and offers secondary coverage only. We feel that it is sufficient knowing our health situation. Pre-existing condition is for treatment of a health condition in 60 days prior to when deposit was placed for travel. Prescription medications are fine. We are working on putting in a claim with Chase Sapphire Reserve now.

We also buy GeoBlue Trekker Choice annually for international travel which includes pre-existing conditions. It covers high amount coverage for medical and emergency evacuation . This is a critical insurance which that we feel that is needed for international travel.
 

DeeCee

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I only read some of this thread from the beginning. So, sorry if this was mentioned and I missed it. Doesn’t Marriott have an exit program? Is that the current buyback option? Does anyone know anything about it? Not thinking of using it, just curious. (Which is why I haven’t called them:))
 

Fasttr

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I only read some of this thread from the beginning. So, sorry if this was mentioned and I missed it. Doesn’t Marriott have an exit program? Is that the current buyback option? Does anyone know anything about it? Not thinking of using it, just curious. (Which is why I haven’t called them:))
Just a rebranded resale department. https://www.marriottvacationclub.com/exit/
 

Saintsfanfl

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Marriott has offered to purchase two of my platinum shadow ridge weeks, if I so choose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I talked to Marriott yesterday and they said they won't buy a Shadow Ridge platinum unit right now and not even for $1. They were a couple years ago but I think they have enough points inventory right now and have tightened up considerably.
 

csodjd

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"An interesting note. Put your current MF cost into a savings calculator at 5% with $0 deposits for 20 years to see where you'll be in terms of costs and what expense you wll be passing on to your family. Make sure to only compound interest annually. Here's one:

$2500 in MF in todays dollars turns into $6633 MF in 20 years.
$12000 in MF in todays dollars turns in $31889 MF in 20 years."

in the above he mentions passing on high MF to family.
The market will have something to say about that. MF are not a blank check existing in a vacuum. Someone must pay them. When they are "too high" sales will drop, defaults will rise, and Marriott will have to respond. Until that happens, fair market value is controlling.
 

luv2vacation

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I bought all my timeshares resale and they're making me money renting them out.

Have been trying to rent a very high demand beach week for months now, to no avail. Please, any advice you have on renting strategy, like best place to advertise, especially, would be very much appreciated.
 

TXTortoise

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Have been trying to rent a very high demand beach week for months now, to no avail. Please, any advice you have on renting strategy, like best place to advertise, especially, would be very much appreciated.

To give context to high demand and urgency, which resort and week? The two most common listing sites are Redweek and VacationCandy.com, with VC offering an option for it to be included on VRBO.com and affiliates.
 

luv2vacation

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To give context to high demand and urgency, which resort and week? The two most common listing sites are Redweek and VacationCandy.com, with VC offering an option for it to be included on VRBO.com and affiliates.

Sent you a PM with details of week.
 

JIMinNC

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HGVC at Sea World
"An interesting note. Put your current MF cost into a savings calculator at 5% with $0 deposits for 20 years to see where you'll be in terms of costs and what expense you wll be passing on to your family. Make sure to only compound interest annually. Here's one:

$2500 in MF in todays dollars turns into $6633 MF in 20 years.
$12000 in MF in todays dollars turns in $31889 MF in 20 years."

in the above he mentions passing on high MF to family.

But in 20 years, everything else will be more expensive too, and salaries will grow as well. You can't just look at maintenance fees in isolation. What you need to compare is how fast maintenance fees rise versus hotel rooms and condo rentals. If maintenance fees rise faster, then owning becomes less advantageous. If they rise at similar rates, then the basic relationship remains unchanged.
 

Fredflintstone

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I hear your rant. Sadly, I think arrogance across the timeshare industry comes from the belief that since you signed on the dotted line agreeing to them changing terms at anytime, they feel anything goes.

They don’t care if you feel it’s a gouge because if you don’t like it, you can try to rid yourself of it and the next guy pays whatever they want.

They don’t care that they are priced out of reason because you locked yourself in.

It almost feels like once you sign the papers, the bare butt caning begins...year after year.

In my view, greed and this attitude will destroy the timeshare concept if it continues.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
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