Marriott fixed week vs Abound points

[T1062a]

Hi,
In response to my previous post "Buy vs. Rent", DRH90277 wrote "“The points system cannot compete with the value proposition provided by resale weeks - think about double the cost for the points system”. If I understand correctly, resale weeks can only be exchanged via II, whereas points can be readily used for stays at any Marriot resort, which is my preference
Can someone please explain the value proposition?

Thanks

 

[vacationtime1]

Relative price.

I will use one example from where I used to own -- a Waiohai OV 2bd in summer.

Cost for resale week: ~$15,000 purchase + ~$2,800 MF's.
Cost for resale points (5075 points): ~$35,000 + $3,900 MF's (@ $7/pp purchase and $0.77/pp MF)

 

[dioxide45]

If I understand correctly, resale weeks can only be exchanged via II, whereas points can be readily used for stays at any Marriot resort, which is my preference

You shouldn't discount the power of II. Sure, booking with points may sound easy. It isn't always as easy as it sounds. You can use II to exchange into other Marriott resorts. There are extra fees, but those fees are probably outweighed by the added maintenance fees that points carry.

 

[Hindsite]

Points systems work well when you want to have odd days here and there and if you can use the Sunday to Thursday discounted nightly rates, they can give good value. It all depends on your pattern of usage, whether you want/need/like to plan well ahead and where you want to go.
I use II to exchange and get excellent value from my ownership whether you measure it in terms of what it would cost in $ or MVC points to pay for, examples below, all MVC weeks:
Low season would elect for 1875 club points, used to book week that would cost 4125 club points via Abound
Mid season would elect for 1675 club points, used to book week that would cost 3950 club points and Hyatt week that has maint fees of $3000/wk
Mid season would elect for 2375 club points, used to book week that would cost 3950 club points
As I have enrolled ownership I can look look inventory in II to see how many club points it would take to reserve and compare that with what my weeks can see. My weeks see inventory of at least 3000 club points. Club points can't be used in II to exchange into any MVC, Sheraton and Westin resorts, but can be used for all the others including DVC, Four Seasons and Hyatt.
I really do like the theory of the points system, but just can't get close to the value that I get with using II.

 

[Venter]

Relative price.

I will use one example from where I used to own -- a Waiohai OV 2bd in summer.

Cost for resale week: ~$15,000 purchase + ~$2,800 MF's.
Cost for resale points (5075 points): ~$35,000 + $3,900 MF's (@ $7/pp purchase and $0.77/pp MF)

Is this 2024 MF at Waiohai? I did not think resorts have posted 2024 MF's yet. You are therefore comparing 2023 Waiohai with 2023 Trust Point MF. If, as predicted MF goes up an average 15% across the board it would mean Waiohai 2024 MFwould be about $3220. Now I wholeheartedly agree if you want to just go to Waiohai each year it would make way more sense to own there as you do but if you want to exchange you would have to put an extra $99 II yearly membership fee and $200 exchange onto that MF. I don't know if you can split your week at Waiohai which could give you better value but consider that lesser demand areas require less Trust Points and things may not be as clear cut.
I do however have no counter argument for the difference in initial outlay.

Points systems work well when you want to have odd days here and there and if you can use the Sunday to Thursday discounted nightly rates, they can give good value. It all depends on your pattern of usage, whether you want/need/like to plan well ahead and where you want to go.
I use II to exchange and get excellent value from my ownership whether you measure it in terms of what it would cost in $ or MVC points to pay for, examples below, all MVC weeks:
Low season would elect for 1875 club points, used to book week that would cost 4125 club points via Abound
Mid season would elect for 1675 club points, used to book week that would cost 3950 club points and Hyatt week that has maint fees of $3000/wk
Mid season would elect for 2375 club points, used to book week that would cost 3950 club points
As I have enrolled ownership I can look look inventory in II to see how many club points it would take to reserve and compare that with what my weeks can see. My weeks see inventory of at least 3000 club points. Club points can't be used in II to exchange into any MVC, Sheraton and Westin resorts, but can be used for all the others including DVC, Four Seasons and Hyatt.
I really do like the theory of the points system, but just can't get close to the value that I get with using II.

It has to be said that you are quoting point outlays for the highest demand weeks like 4th of July etc. and that, in general and on average, point outlay is about 5-7% more than what you would receive if you elect points. Again, it makes more sense to buy a high season week somewhere if those are the only times you want to travel and make trading a bit easier. You can even gain by locking of but then you will pay extra for the 'uptrade' fees. If you just compare getting a 2 bedroom for a 2 bedroom then if one is not to bothered to go during the highest demand times the difference may be much of a muchness.
If comparing buying mainland traders the initial outlay will again be much more for Trust Points.

If one disregards the initial outlay or just consider it the cost of the convenience, Trust Points may not be a bad value proposition if you are flexible and want to travel during off peak times. Consider trading that one week Waiohai or Platinum week to go to Harbour Point in HHI during the lowest season then you could essentially stay for 12 weeks with Trust Points instead of trading your Waiohai week for two weeks or your one Platinum week for 2 weeks that in the example would get 10 weeks. I know this is the extreme case scenario.
If you consider going Sunday check in and Friday check out you can get more value that way too.
One could also save on airfare by being able to check in and out on days of the week rather than weekend days.
At first it seems a no brainer to buy resale weeks and I do agree when considering initial outlay it makes the most sense, but if you have the ownership for a long time the flexibility and usage options may equal things out more. If you just want to go during non high demand times it may not be as clear cut and even having to save points and using two years worth to go to a high demand area during high season may be worth it.

I believe in weeks because they are in the trust and give me the highest flexibility per cost due to being able to use them for both trading and electing points. If I had to start with resale I would probably consider owning both.

 

[Hindsite]

Is this 2024 MF at Waiohai? I did not think resorts have posted 2024 MF's yet. You are therefore comparing 2023 Waiohai with 2023 Trust Point MF. If, as predicted MF goes up an average 15% across the board it would mean Waiohai 2024 MFwould be about $3220. Now I wholeheartedly agree if you want to just go to Waiohai each year it would make way more sense to own there as you do but if you want to exchange you would have to put an extra $99 II yearly membership fee and $200 exchange onto that MF. I don't know if you can split your week at Waiohai which could give you better value but consider that lesser demand areas require less Trust Points and things may not be as clear cut.
I do however have no counter argument for the difference in initial outlay.


It has to be said that you are quoting point outlays for the highest demand weeks like 4th of July etc. and that, in general and on average, point outlay is about 5-7% more than what you would receive if you elect points. Again, it makes more sense to buy a high season week somewhere if those are the only times you want to travel and make trading a bit easier. You can even gain by locking of but then you will pay extra for the 'uptrade' fees. If you just compare getting a 2 bedroom for a 2 bedroom then if one is not to bothered to go during the highest demand times the difference may be much of a muchness.
If comparing buying mainland traders the initial outlay will again be much more for Trust Points.

If one disregards the initial outlay or just consider it the cost of the convenience, Trust Points may not be a bad value proposition if you are flexible and want to travel during off peak times. Consider trading that one week Waiohai or Platinum week to go to Harbour Point in HHI during the lowest season then you could essentially stay for 12 weeks with Trust Points instead of trading your Waiohai week for two weeks or your one Platinum week for 2 weeks that in the example would get 10 weeks. I know this is the extreme case scenario.
If you consider going Sunday check in and Friday check out you can get more value that way too.
One could also save on airfare by being able to check in and out on days of the week rather than weekend days.
At first it seems a no brainer to buy resale weeks and I do agree when considering initial outlay it makes the most sense, but if you have the ownership for a long time the flexibility and usage options may equal things out more. If you just want to go during non high demand times it may not be as clear cut and even having to save points and using two years worth to go to a high demand area during high season may be worth it.

I believe in weeks because they are in the trust and give me the highest flexibility per cost due to being able to use them for both trading and electing points. If I had to start with resale I would probably consider owning both.

No these are not the highest point outlays for the season of where we exchange into, we don't travel 4th July or other holiday weeks etc. These are real exchanges that I have made and their equivalent points values for the specific weeks for the same unit size, if I were to book via Abound.
While the "average" might be as you say, that does not account for locations or resorts where there is a very significant variation in points needed for weeks during a season (and II TDI), which seems to be the areas that we travel to. If you are travelling to locations where there is very little variation or only 1 major season, then your assumption is plausible.
Even if you account for Sun-Thurs points discounts, I still can't beat using my weeks in II to get what I want, even if I exchanged the week but only used 5 days. However I cut it I just can't make the points system work for how we travel, but I keep checking just in case.....
There are many people who do very well with elected club points, I'm just not one of them......

 

[Venter]

No these are not the highest point outlays for the season of where we exchange into, we don't travel 4th July or other holiday weeks etc. These are real exchanges that I have made and their equivalent points values for the specific weeks for the same unit size, if I were to book via Abound.
While the "average" might be as you say, that does not account for locations or resorts where there is a very significant variation in points needed for weeks during a season (and II TDI), which seems to be the areas that we travel to. If you are travelling to locations where there is very little variation or only 1 major season, then your assumption is plausible.
Even if you account for Sun-Thurs points discounts, I still can't beat using my weeks in II to get what I want, even if I exchanged the week but only used 5 days. However I cut it I just can't make the points system work for how we travel, but I keep checking just in case.....
There are many people who do very well with elected club points, I'm just not one of them......

I think I understand. You are exchanging/trading mid and low season weeks in lower demand areas to weeks in other areas/seasons and that would cost more to do in Abound points than what you could get when electing those weeks.

Yes, this is a big win in that case and I would agree that it is a much better use scenario. Considering the preparation needed for those exchanges it will not work for me. I always tell my family we need to book well in advance but they never tell me untill 6-8 months before they want to go somewhere. With points even that can be a hard ask. Fortunately, I have always been able to piece something together.

 

[dioxide45]

I think I understand. You are exchanging/trading mid and low season weeks in lower demand areas to weeks in other areas/seasons and that would cost more to do in Abound points than what you could get when electing those weeks.

Yes, this is a big win in that case and I would agree that it is a much better use scenario. Considering the preparation needed for those exchanges it will not work for me. I always tell my family we need to book well in advance but they never tell me untill 6-8 months before they want to go somewhere. With points even that can be a hard ask. Fortunately, I have always been able to piece something together.

Timeshare overall isn't good for 6-8 month planning. That said, many II exchanges probably don't come through until 5-8 months out. There are exceptions of course. Piecing something together with II exchanges is really not that hard. You need to be able to accept several different options. Don't try to book a single week at a single resort for a single checking day. Otherwise you will be disappointed. Though the same is true for points use.

Our usage is in almost the same scenario as @Hindsite. I used to keep much better track of this through 2021, but looking at those numbers we would have needed an additional 9,000 points to get the equivalent bookings using points as we did with exchanging weeks. Meaning, the weeks we exchanged into cost 14,000 points but we only get 4,125. And we aren't even exchanging into peak weeks as we mostly travel during shoulder season. The power comes in trading a studio or 1BR for a 2BR or larger unit. I will update my spreadsheet and post actual exchanges later.