Mandatory Resorts, must they really be in the network?

[CPNY]

So while looking through gov documents for key west I stumbled upon this in the docs. I’m sure most already know this but it was new to me.

Owning key west, harborside resort at Atlantis (although selling) and Bella units I found this to be interesting.
We talk about mandatory resorts and how they must be enrolled in the vistana network but is that really true?

Here is the mandatory part of the club. This we know, Star Options transfer etc etc
“c. Legal Structure of the Multisite Vacation Ownership Plan. Membership in the Club is an inseparable part of Club Resort VOIs. On recording of a deed or a memorandum of contract to a Club Resort VOI, the Owner is entitled to enjoy the benefits of membership in the Club.”

the document says the resort must be in the “club” not network. The club is actually called the “Vistana East Vacation Club” the VEVC also known as the Atlantis Vacation Club.
The club just has an affiliation with the VSN. Can this affiliation can be terminated?

According to the CCR The Vistana Signature Network is just an exchange.

The Vistana East Vacation Club resorts:
At the current time, Westin St. John, Bella Florida, Harborside Resort Condominium I, Harborside Resort Condominium II and Key West.

The club is part of the vistana network but not all VSN resorts are club resorts. I also found the wording for all club condominiums interesting:

VOIs in Harborside Resort Condominium I may not be incorporated into any multisite vacation ownership plan other than the Club without the prior written consent of the Developer of Harborside Resort Condominium I and Club Operator.


In the end the vistana signature network is just an exchange and not a vacation ownership plan, an exchange we (owners in the VEVC) have an affiliation with.

To sum it up, and this is just my understanding. Club resorts can be deleted from the club, the clubs affiliation can end in the VSN exchange, or they can pick and choose which high demand resorts to sign into another multi site vacation ownership plan in the future.

Again, this all my be worthless or has been debunked before, and possible I am reading this wrong. I know the VSE experts here will offer some of their insights. I did love reading about the star option values and how they can reassign values to weeks. I always knew that I just hate reading it, paranoia sets in lol.


On to HRA club membership:
I know this is long but if someone wants to explain this to me? Is this saying the harborside membership in the club is 40 years max 45 unless owners unanimously vote to stay in? I’m not a lawyer and my eyes are burning from reading all of this

iv) Harborside Resort Condominium II. Unless the condominium is terminated in accordance with the terms of the Harborside Resort Condominium II Declaration or any other applicable Resort Declaration (defined in the Vacation Ownership Declaration II), the duration of the vacation ownership plan for Harborside Resort II, in which Harborside Resort Condominium II is included, is forty (40) years after the initial lodging for recordation of the Vacation Ownership Declaration II in the Registry, or such longer term as may be allowed by the Commonwealth of The Bahamas, not to exceed forty-five years; provided however, the vacation ownership plan for Harborside Resort II shall continue for such additional period of time as the Harborside Resort II Owners shall determine by unanimous resolution if prior to the expiration of the vacation ownership plan for Harborside Resort II, (i) all Harborside Resort II Owners unanimously vote to renew the vacation ownership plan for Harborside Resort II; (ii) all approvals from all applicable governmental authorities are obtained; and (iii) the document evidencing the reimposition of the vacation ownership plan for Harborside Resort II is lodged for recording in the Registry. On expiration or termination of the Vacation ownership plan for Harborside Resort II, the Units in each respective Resort Condominium (defined in the Vacation Ownership Declaration II) shall vest in fee simple in the Vacation Ownership Association (defined in the Vacation Ownership Declaration II) as trustee for the Harborside Resort II Owners pursuant to a springing or shifting executory interest, at which time the Harborside Resort II Owners will be entitled to certain rights as further described in Section 4.7(b) of the Vacation Ownership Declaration II. Each Harborside Resort II Owner is the Owner of an undivided interest in the Owner’s Unit as tenant in common with the other Owners in that particular Unit pursuant to the provisions of the applicable Resort Declaration and the Vacation Ownership Declaration II.

 

[DannyTS]

I read your post and frankly, my head was spinning. Then I went to the SVV Bella governing docs and read again the definition of the club, network, mandatory etc. Now I am happy again. I do not see how they can kick us out of the network. MVC trying to play with that would create a lot of legal and PR problems with only marginal benefits.

 

[DavidnRobin]

There is a backup ‘club, in case relationship with VSN is discontinued.
The CCRs cover all bases.


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[CPNY]

I read your post and frankly, my head was spinning. Then I went to the SVV Bella governing docs and read again the definition of the club, network, mandatory etc. Now I am happy again. I do not see how they can kick us out of the network. MVC trying to play would that would create a lot of legal and PR problems with only marginal benefits.

My question is, because a resort is in the club doesn’t mean it’s guaranteed to be in the network? People seem to think mandatory means it has to be in the vistana signature network. That’s not the case. It has to be in the club. In the case of SVV the club is the vistana east vacation club. That was news to me. I thought mandatory meant it has to be in the VSN.

It’s only in the VSN because it’s in the club and the club is affiliated with the network which is an exchange.

I don’t think MVC would touch it, but there are more variables than originally thought. At least from my end.

 

[DavidnRobin]

I read your post and frankly, my head was spinning. Then I went to the SVV Bella governing docs and read again the definition of the club, network, mandatory etc. Now I am happy again. I do not see how they can kick us out of the network. MVC trying to play would that would create a lot of legal and PR problems with only marginal benefits.

They can discontinue relationship with VSN.

If this were to happen - VSN Mandatory declaration would be mute.


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[CPNY]

There is a backup ‘club, in case relationship with VSN is discontinued.
The CCRs cover all bases.


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Correct, but then that would mean you would only have access to WSJ,SVV, and HRA if they discontinued the affiliation in the network, correct?

 

[DannyTS]

I do not see how creating instability in the system would be beneficial for them in any way, shape or form. You are referring to hypothetical scenarios that would serve no purpose, would be legally dubious, expensive and time consuming. They would punish retail and resale alike. They would also have to deal with multiple resort owners whose weeks would end up in 2 competing networks.

 

[CPNY]

I do not see how creating instability in the system would be beneficial for them in any way, shape or form. You are referring to hypothetical scenarios that would serve no purpose, would be legally dubious, expensive and time consuming. They would punish retail and resale alike. They would also have to deal with multiple resort owners, now some resorts would end up in one club, others in a competing club?

The whole point was to say that mandatory doesn’t mean in the network. No one is being punished. They could do away with The Whole vistana signature network exchange and put the “clubs” in the DC exchange, But that wasn’t the point of the post.

The point was to say mandatory doesn’t mean has to be in the vistana network as everyone thinks. It just means it has to be in the club it is currently in. SVV WSJ and HRA are in their own club, the vistana east vacation club. That’s the only club you’re guaranteed to be a part of if you own those resorts. I found that interesting and it was news to me.

 

[DannyTS]

The whole point was to say that mandatory doesn’t mean in the network. No one is being punished. They could do away with The Whole vistana signature network exchange and put the “clubs” in the DC exchange, But that wasn’t the point of the post.

The point was to say mandatory doesn’t mean has to be in the vistana network as everyone thinks. It just means it has to be in the club it is currently in. SVV WSJ and HRA are in their own club, the vistana east vacation club. That’s the only club you’re guaranteed to be a part of if you own those resorts. I found that interesting and it was news to me.

page 2 (260 in the SVV Bella governing docs)
"III. Membership in the Network
A purchaser of a Vacation Ownership Interest (“VOI”) in a Club Resort automatically is enrolled as a Club
Member and a Network Member at the time that the purchaser acquires such VOI. There is no Network contract
separate and distinct from the purchaser’s contract with the developer of the vacation ownership plan at a Club
Resort, and the terms of such membership are as set forth in the Club Documents and the Network Documents.
Membership in the Network is granted to all purchasers of Club Resort VOIs. A resort becomes a Club Resort
by means of a Club Resort Affiliation Agreement between Club Operator and a developer or management
company for a Club Resort under which the accommodations and facilities of that resort are included as a part
of the Club. All Club Resorts are affiliated with the Network by means of a Network Affiliation Agreement
between the Club Operator and Network Operator. The purchaser’s decision to use the Network exchange
program by making a reservation for a Vacation Period at a Network Resort, or otherwise using StarOptions
after the expiration of the Home Resort Preference Period is voluntary. If the Network Member no longer owns
a Club Resort VOI, the person will no longer be a Network Member and the new owner of that Club Resort VOI
automatically will become the NetworkMember. Membership in the Network also is dependent on the continued
affiliation between the Network and the Club Resort where the Network Member owns a VOI."


page 6-7
"Network means the Vistana Signature Network, the service name given to the variety of exchange and
reservation services and vacation and travel benefits currently offered and the restrictions currently imposed
by Network Operator for Network Resorts. The Network is an exchange program offered by Network
Operator, an exchange company. Network Members reserve the use of the Units through the Network,
which may or may not include access to an External Exchange Program, as set forth in the applicable
Network Documents. The Network is not a legal entity or association of any kind. Note that the Network
was formerly known as Starwood Vacation Network and may be referred to by such former name in
various documents and agreements. Also note that the Network was formerly known by the acronym SVN
and may be referred to by such former acronym in various documents and agreements."

page 6-7
"Club means the Vistana East Vacation Club, the service name given to the variety of exchange and
reservation services and vacation and travel benefits currently offered and the restrictions currently imposed
by Club Operator for Club Resorts. Club Members reserve the use of the Units at a Club Resort and access
an External Exchange Program through the Club reservation system pursuant to the priorities, restrictions,
and limitations set forth in the Club Documents. The Club is not a legal entity or association of any kind.
The Club also does business as the Atlantis Vacation Club. Vistana East Vacation Club was formerly
known as Starwood Vacation Club and may be referred to by such former name in various documents and
agreements."

 

[DannyTS]

by the way, does the Vistana East Vacation Club mean anything in practical terms? I do not think we can exchange any easier into the other resorts of this Club.

 

[CPNY]

by the way, does the Vistana East Vacation Club mean anything in practical terms? I do not think we can exchange any easier into the other resorts of this Club.

by the way, does the Vistana East Vacation Club mean anything in practical terms? I do not think we can exchange any easier into the other resorts of this Club.

No it doesn’t mean anything in practical terms but just so I’m understanding it correctly. The club is different than the network and is only associated by affiliation in terms of reservations with the network. Im not trying to get into what that means for the future in terms of any combined program because that’s not what the post was about. Again, I was always under the understanding that the network which had all the vistana resorts was the “club” we were mandated to be a part of. But reading what I’m reading the only club the VOI must be a part of is the VEVC. Realistically MVC can do whatever they want. Do I think they will, probably not.

 

[DannyTS]

No it doesn’t mean anything in practical terms but just so I’m understanding it correctly. The club is different than the network and is only associated by affiliation in terms of reservations with the network. Im not trying to get into what that means for the future in terms of any combined program because that’s not what the post was about. Again, I was always under the understanding that the network which had all the vistana resorts was the “club” we were mandated to be a part of. But reading what I’m reading the only club the VOI must be a part of is the VEVC. Realistically MVC can do whatever they want. Do I think they will, probably not.

"A purchaser of a Vacation Ownership Interest (“VOI”) in a Club Resort automatically is enrolled as a Club
Member and a Network Member at the time that the purchaser acquires such VOI." It clearly states that Bella has to be part of the Club and the SVN

 

[CPNY]

"A purchaser of a Vacation Ownership Interest (“VOI”) in a Club Resort automatically is enrolled as a Club
Member and a Network Member at the time that the purchaser acquires such VOI." It clearly states that Bella has to be part of the Club and the SVN

Correct a member of the network because the club has an affiliation to the network. This was the whole question I had. So technically the network can go away but Bella like HRA, WSJ, and Key west are still part of the Club. The vistana east vacation club. This was the confusing part. So I’m reading it as the club and the network are different. I’m questioning why only these ownership associations are listed in the “club”. The DC exchange can replace the vistana sig network exchange if they so chose to. It sounds like the VSN is similar to the DC in that they are both exchanges.

 

[DannyTS]

If DC replaces VSN then mandatory will be part of it

 

[CPNY]

May

If DC replaces VSN then mandatory will be part of it

Right. Unless they only chose certain resorts to be in the DC and kept the VSN. HRA and WSJ can essentially be in both and if you own in one of those then yes you would have access to DC by default. Not saying they would go through the hassle of doing that. But I think they can. Essentially, mandatory isn’t guaranteed to be in any network if there is no network for it to be affiliated with. Keep me in a “club” with WSJ and HRA, ID gladly book my star options there anyway.

 

[controller1]

Sorry but I'm not really sure dreaming up multiple controversial scenarios is of help to anyone.

 

[CPNY]

Sorry but I'm not really sure dreaming up multiple controversial scenarios is of help to anyone.

This has nothing to do with controversial scenarios. I edited the original because I see how I went down the rabbit hole which wasn’t my intention. Was Just trying To show an example of a multi site vacation ownership plan.

Really I’m just trying to clarify the difference between the “club” and the actual “network.” And the fact that the network is just an exchange? So what does mandatory really mean? Does it mean access to all of the network resorts or just the “club”? That’s my question based on the wording in the CCR. I was always under the impression that the mandatory part meant it had to be in network when really it seems that it only has to be in the club?

Can the clubs affiliation with the network end?

No one seems to be able to clarify. The DC nonsense was used as an example of a like exchange. As I’ve learned here on tug, nothing is guaranteed and expect change with ownership.

This isn’t dreamt up this is based on actual wording in the updated CCR

 

[CalGalTraveler]

From what @DannyTS provided in the legal docs "and" is the important word so there is no separating Club and Network. MVC could possibly redefine/reduce what the network and club do i.e. reduce SVN available inventory if owners are offered DC, but taking the network away completely may result in DC becoming the automatically enrolled Network since one is required per the CC&Rs.

"A purchaser of a Vacation Ownership Interest (“VOI”) in a Club Resort automatically is enrolled as a Club
Member and a Network Member at the time that the purchaser acquires such VOI."

Eliminating mandatory across the board would involve massive legal and customer sat issues. This is likely why ILG decided it was not worth the effort because there are a small percentage of resales out there compared to developer sold units. Better to use ROFR and DC upgrades as carrots.

 

[CPNY]

From what @DannyTS provided in the legal docs "and" is the important word so there is no separating Club and Network. MVC could possibly redefine/reduce what the network and club do i.e. reduce SVN available inventory if owners are offered DC, but taking the network away completely may result in DC becoming the automatically enrolled Network since one is required per the CC&Rs.

"A purchaser of a Vacation Ownership Interest (“VOI”) in a Club Resort automatically is enrolled as a Club
Member and a Network Member at the time that the purchaser acquires such VOI."

Eliminating mandatory across the board would involve massive legal and customer sat issues. This is likely why ILG decided it was not worth the effort because there are a small percentage of resales out there compared to developer sold units. Better to use ROFR and DC upgrades as carrots.

I thought so too, the AND is an important word. What confused me was that the network is just an exchange program and the club is enrolled in the network through an affiliation agreement. So I’d really love to know how the whole thing is really set up.

For the record, no i don’t think MVC is getting rid of the Vistana Network. But who knows what it looks like in 10 years. Id think the idea Is keep making money off of owners. We do contribute to 60% or so of their sales revenue.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Sorry but I'm not really sure dreaming up multiple controversial scenarios is of help to anyone.

Agree.
This has been discussed in the past.
Nothing new.

It is possible that the relationship with VSN could go away, and the local ‘clubs’ (as mentioned in CCRs) would be implemented (or even other systems).

However, currently VSN does exist - as well as VSN Mandatory and Voluntary designations. These designations are even part of the VSE Sales Datasheets.



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[CPNY]

Thank you. That was my question. It was something I never knew. I thought the network couldn’t go away, but really it can. I don’t think it will and Im not worried about it or trying to insinuate it will in some future situation. Was just looking for clarification.

It is possible that the relationship with VSN could go away, and the local ‘clubs’ (as mentioned in CCRs) would be implemented (or even other systems).


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