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Mandatory properties and a big thank you!!

trexmdr

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Dear fellow members.
I own two weeks at WKOVR, one bought at the pre-construction from the developer and the other as a re-sale and I have to tell you that before I found this forum I had no idea what mandatory and non-mandatory meant. I am sure it is in the fine print but both the developer and the broker I bought from never mentioned it. Luckily for me, in Maui, it didn't matter as it is a mandatory property but I wonder how many people bought from the developer or on the secondary market a timeshare that is not mandatory without having a clue of the restrictions. My friend bought a few years ago on Kauai and had no idea and now that maint fees are so high he wants to sell but was shocked when I told him the market value and why. I think his initial buy in was $60K. Don't quote me on that but it was pretty high as I remember.
My point is that this forum is so valuable and I learn something everyday on how to better use my timeshare to get maximum value. So really this post is a big shout out to all of you that monitor and contribute. You really do make a difference in peoples lives in a very measurable and tangible way and as important you save people from the stress caused by financial ruin that can come from poor, uninformed investments.
Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and Happy Holidays to you and your families.
Sincerely,
RT
 

mjm1

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RT, I couldn't agree more. We have learned an unbelievable amount from fellow Tuggers and are happy to share our knowledge and experiences too. We have also had the opportunity to meet a number of Tuggers in person and have developed friendships in doing so.

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays and Happy New Year to everyone from us too.

Mike
 

grgs

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I wonder how many people bought from the developer or on the secondary market a timeshare that is not mandatory without having a clue of the restrictions.

I'm sure most who buy from the developer don't know about the mandatory/voluntary distinction. I would think that many more people who buy on the resale market are aware of this (athough, probably not all). If they weren't aware going into a sale, it does show up on the Starwood estoppel form (or whatever they call it). Of course, not everyone gets one of those.

Glorian
 

suzannesimon

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I wonder how many people who buy from the developer ever think about resale. I wouldn't think that any salesman would bring up mandatory vs voluntary at a sales pitch. They wouldn't ever want to put the idea of resale in our brains. I purchased every resale I have through listing agents so they aren't going to tell me either. Without TUG, I wouldn't have ever known anything about it. As we know now, everyone should make a stop at TUG before buying a timeshare, but sadly, like most people, I had to buy from the developer first before I found TUG.
 

DavidnRobin

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For WPORV, the cost from was $48-56K for EY (initial to final main sell blocks).
now... $5-6K ?

Most are not aware, and too many sad stories. Sometimes ignorance is bless.

Yet, I did buy my EOY WPORV knowing about resale. I believe it has helped being an Owner there. If I would put a cost of my SVO ownership (subjective - fuzzy math). I put my cost at around $12K more than resale cost. In the SVO word - not so bad - plus great vacations in Kauai (and Europe on SP incentives). Plus, maybe someday - resale values could go up - you never know... I brought with idea of using for many years - so not worrying about resale value and more concerned about resort quality and experiences.
 

PassionForTravel

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When I attended the sales presentation at WKOVR this past Nov where they were trying to sell me Nanea. I asked if it was voluntary or mandatory. As expected he said voluntary. I mentioned that I would never buy voluntary from the developer because they don't hold their value like mandatory's do. He said ah but that was Kauai not Maui beachfront. It will be interesting to see in a few years where Nanea's resale value is compared to WKOVR and WKOVN.

Ian
 

trexmdr

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What is the reasoning by the developer to have some resorts mandatory and others voluntary? And how do they decide which ones?
Rt
 

Helios

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When I attended the sales presentation at WKOVR this past Nov where they were trying to sell me Nanea. I asked if it was voluntary or mandatory. As expected he said voluntary. I mentioned that I would never buy voluntary from the developer because they don't hold their value like mandatory's do. He said ah but that was Kauai not Maui beachfront. It will be interesting to see in a few years where Nanea's resale value is compared to WKOVR and WKOVN.

Ian

I see the logic in the sales person's comment. In general, people want beach front and that helps Maui properties resale wise. Not everybody knows about mandatory benefits, but that of course helps with the Maui resale. I would think the Maui resale will go down simply because there will be a larger supply of units. The OF units will probably do better. Just my guess...

Also, HGVC is building a new property. Not in Kaanapali, but in the same island...not the same Westin fans, but that will affect prices as well...IMO.
 

Helios

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What is the reasoning by the developer to have some resorts mandatory and others voluntary? And how do they decide which ones?
Rt

Not sure about the original reasoning, but I think that is a thing of the past. There will be no more mandatory resorts.

I imagine the mandatory perk will probably go away some day when ILG takes over officially and restructures the SVN reservation system. I suppose the SVN will go away that day.:ponder: This is pure speculation, of course...
 

lizap

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Yes there's a lot of speculation. So I'll play along: it's likely II will not do away with the mandatory designation or if there is restructuring, mandatory owners will be given priority over voluntary owners. In any event, what ever happens, if anything, is quite a way out, as the deal hasn't officially closed yet.. Who knows, maybe II owners will be given preference over others using II to exchange. If so, Hyatt and Starwood owners would be in great shape....

Not sure about the original reasoning, but I think that is a thing of the past. There will be no more mandatory resorts.

I imagine the mandatory perk will probably go away some day when ILG takes over officially and restructures the SVN reservation system. I suppose the SVN will go away that day.:ponder: This is pure speculation, of course...
 
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Helios

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Yes there's a lot of speculation. So I'll play along: it's likely II will not do away with the mandatory designation or if there is restructuring, mandatory owners will be given priority over voluntary owners. In any event, what ever happens, if anything, is quite a way out, as the deal hasn't officially closed yet.. Who knows, maybe II owners will be given preference over others using II to exchange. If so, Hyatt and Starwood owners would be in great shape....

The II owner preference sounds good. Mainly for Starwood or Hyatt exchanges. IMO, the majority of the II resorts are not on par with Starwood or Hyatt quality wise.
 

lizap

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We have gotten some wonderful Marriott trades via II with our Hyatt. Would love to see a Marriott preference (after Marriott owners but before non- II owners using II to exchange).


The II owner preference sounds good. Mainly for Starwood or Hyatt exchanges. IMO, the majority of the II resorts are not on par with Starwood or Hyatt quality wise.
 
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DavidnRobin

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What is the reasoning by the developer to have some resorts mandatory and others voluntary? And how do they decide which ones?
Rt

No one knows.
Bad SVO Mangement decision - who's Team leader should be fired, but was probably promoted...
 

Helios

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We have gotten some wonderful Marriott trades via II with our Hyatt. Would love to see a Marriott preference (after Marriott owners but before non- II owners using II to exchange).

I forgot Marriott. I was just thinking about the ILG properties. I suppose the Marriott priority could happen. I have Marriott priority and have not used it yet. You really need to set up an II OGS early to get something good. I think the Marriott point program really diminished the II selection.
 

DavidnRobin

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When I attended the sales presentation at WKOVR this past Nov where they were trying to sell me Nanea. I asked if it was voluntary or mandatory. As expected he said voluntary. I mentioned that I would never buy voluntary from the developer because they don't hold their value like mandatory's do. He said ah but that was Kauai not Maui beachfront. It will be interesting to see in a few years where Nanea's resale value is compared to WKOVR and WKOVN.

Ian

I have had this same arcane argument with Sales more than once.
They are professionally required to delude themselves.

It may be beachfront (and Maui) - and that will help, but assuredly these Nanea HomeResort Options will be much (much) less on resale market especially with restrictions since they are sold as options that effectively can only be use at Nanea for resale HOs, or via non-SVN exchange.
my guesstimate in 2019 - around 80% less.
Recall WPORV had advantage of no resort expansion at that location (still true) and only 179 VOIs.
What additionally kills WPORV value? not being SVN Mandatory. If it were - those VOIs would be worth more for everyone (Owners and SVO) directly and indirectly. As said - poor SVO Mangement decision with typical corporate delusion.
IMO
 

DeniseM

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Who knows why Starwood does, what Starwood does, but I think the major reason for them to only offer voluntary resorts in the future is that this is a major selling point for buying from the developer vs resale.
 

okwiater

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Who knows why Starwood does, what Starwood does, but I think the major reason for them to only offer voluntary resorts in the future is that this is a major selling point for buying from the developer vs resale.

This is certainly correct. It's an incentive not only to buy from the developer in the first place, but also to convince resale buyers to "come back into the fold." (Requal/retro)
 

DeniseM

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This is certainly correct. It's an incentive not only to buy from the developer in the first place, but also to convince resale buyers to "come back into the fold." (Requal/retro)

I think that requalifying (as we know it now) will go away in the future, and Starwood will want you to convert to Flexoptions, instead.
 

okwiater

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I think that requalifying (as we know it now) will go away in the future, and Starwood will want you to convert to Flexoptions, instead.

I think that's a fair bet. I've contended for awhile that Starwood's goal is to eliminate or diminish the value of SVN in favor of Flex. Absorbing deeds through ROFR and trade-ins will gradually shrink the SVN pool over time.
 

lizap

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Remember, II, not Starwood, will be making decisions regarding SVN in the future. Not at all sure Flexoptions will be an integral part of II"s strategic plan for Starwood going forward. Time will tell...
 

DeniseM

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Remember, II, not Starwood, will be making decisions regarding SVN in the future. Not at all sure Flexoptions will be an integral part of II"s strategic plan for Starwood going forward. Time will tell...

I think it will, because I don't think Starwood would have just added the Colorado property to Sheraton Flex, if it wasn't the direction that Interval wants to go.
 

DavidnRobin

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I think that's a fair bet. I've contended for awhile that Starwood's goal is to eliminate or diminish the value of SVN in favor of Flex. Absorbing deeds through ROFR and trade-ins will gradually shrink the SVN pool over time.

So... effectively you are speculating that StarOptions will decrease in value since SVN will be eliminated/dimished, and therefore M resorts (like WKV) will decrease significantly in value, and V resort VOIs values will increase? Do I understand correctly?

So... these increases in SOs at resorts and selling of HomeOptions (at Nanea, WSJ-CV...) are just... what? fodder?
to be used at that resort only or new exchange system (or II only?)

But, StarOptions and HomeOptions will be used for exchanging between these resorts - so all that can really happen (IMO) is that the contract with SVN will be eliminated...? basically - hustling 1000s of people (w/ money) of of $100000s?

or do I misinterpret?
if not - not buying it - sorry - no disrespect.
but, still glad I bought where I want to go (and do).
I did eventually intend to use SOs from resale WKV to exchange into HI via SVN, but guess I will have to settle for renting - of course because of the 100s of non-prime WKV owners defaulting - guess the resort will collapse due to MFs going above $10K - hmmmmmm...... a little 'sky is falling' loudness
 

okwiater

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So... effectively you are speculating that StarOptions will decrease in value since SVN will be eliminated/dimished, and therefore M resorts (like WKV) will decrease significantly in value, and V resort VOIs values will increase? Do I understand correctly?

Not quite... I don't think voluntary resort values will increase as a result nor do I think SVN will be eliminated. I'm merely contending that Starwood regrets the mandatory designation since it makes it easy for people to get 90% of the value for a fraction of the price through the resale channel. Their goal is to strengthen the case for purchasing direct, and making SVN less of a "catch-all" way to access all the resorts in the network makes perfect sense.

Case in point: I made an SVN reservation for Presidents' Day at Steamboat Springs this year. Do you think that's ever likely to happen again now that it's being added to Flex?
 

DavidnRobin

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Not sure - but in reality - resale is negligible in comparison to SVO sales. I do not think they care - too many big fish than to worry about minnows. I do agree that could have been their reasoning - certainly comes into play - but that doesn't make it a wise macroeconomic reason. IMO
My argument is they actually hurt themselves with V resorts - also, V resort owners (from SVO) do come with SOs for those who choose SVN. Again - those buying resale M resorts to use SVN is very small in comparison. I think it is a perception thing since we do know about resale and TUG. Most do not. In my experiences talking to 100s of people at our resorts over the years - rare to find anyone who knows about resales or TUG. And most I discuss these topics with - do not care or rarely follow up. IME

Also - consider the resorts that 'most' SVN members actually want to get into. I would suspect that Flex resorts are not these. IMO
 

lizap

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Denise, I believe the announcement that this resort was going to be in Sheraton Flex was made quite a while before II decided to acquire SVN. I think II can change anything with SVN, including Sheraton Flex..

I think it will, because I don't think Starwood would have just added the Colorado property to Sheraton Flex, if it wasn't the direction that Interval wants to go.
 
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