Man, this sales person had their tail between their legs when I was through with them

[djanash]

I'll admit I didn't take the advice of "enjoying" my vacation and went to the sales office of the WindJammer Landing in St lucia again while I was still in town. But this time I had a print out of time share resales available for the units that I wanted and the weeks that I wanted and I asked them to justify the price they offered me

You should have seen the look on their face....so worth it!
In poker, we call that "throwing down the hammer" - when you have the best cards and re-raise some one big time

Now I had all the right resources and info. Here's an example of what they offered

1BR, 2Bath, sleeps 4 fully enclosed unit 62, plunge pool in the new Quadraplex WEEK 52 - 31k

My print out from various sites on line:
1BR , 1Bath , No Pool, "Open" lay out, - WEEK 40 - 4k
Comparable Unit WEEK 51 and 52 - 10.5K each

I actually ended up contacting some sellers one and looks like we'll be getting weeks all 3 weeks?! For around 22K combined Wow!!!!!

She tried explaining to me that the reason why some people are trying to sell there units is the three D's - Death, Divorce and Debt
I was pretty brash and rude when I said I don't care if the person just became a quadriplegic and couldn't go up and down stairs any more. I was a buyer not Mother Theresa, and I just wanted the best deal
I offered her a chance to beat or counter these offers and by then she looked like she was going to cry. Her price was almost 8 times more!!!? She offered me the same unit for 18k now, down from 31K - I laughed in her face

"I want to know why you think its ok to rip me off? to lie to me?!"

Let me make this clear for other newbies like me:
All the sales must go through this office -BS
All the contracts must be signed on the island - BS
I dont get certain benefits - there all BS
we dont do things over mail and phone, only in person - BS
ROFR - with all my options in THIS economy - BS

You should have see then look on her face
She then said, "well you know we ROFR". I replied that if I attempted to purchase a unit through resale that she would have to excercise ROFR on 16 deals and by then a 17th would pop up - you wouldn't want to see me around the complex if you do that to me....
I have too many friends, and like it here to much to avoid doing this deal with a resale and the last thing she'd want is me wishing her a merry christmas and a happy new year every year for the next 54 years!

You guys probably think Im a jerk, but I'm a jerk with more money in my wallet now - so who cares- I feel great about spending a SECOND morning of my vacation dealing with this (besides, it was cloudy out)

A thousand THANK YOUs to all those who replied and viewed my original post earlier in the week and Ill see you around - And to the sale people at WindJammer Landing - Happy 2009!

 

[timeos2]

Thew Weasels speak, lies flow like a river

You should have see then look on her face
She then said, "well you know we ROFR". I replied that if I attempted to purchase a unit through resale that she would have to excercise ROFR on 16 deals and by then a 17th would pop up - you wouldn't want to see me around the complex if you do that to me....
I have too many friends, and like it here to much to avoid doing this deal with a resale and the last thing she'd want is me wishing her a merry christmas and a happy new year every year for the next 54 years!

PERFECT comeback on ROFR. You nailed it.

You guys probably think Im a jerk, but I'm a jerk with more money in my wallet now - so who cares- I feel great about spending a SECOND morning of my vacation dealing with this (besides, it was cloudy out)

A thousand THANK YOUs to all those who replied and viewed my original post earlier in the week and Ill see you around - And to the sale people at WindJammer Landing - Happy F- ing 2009!

The jerk's are the lying, disreputable sales weasels. You can try to play at their level (fair is fair) but nothing you did fell to their lowball standards of lies, misrepresentations and twisted facts. You told the truth so right away you blew them out of the water. Great work. Happy New Year and enjoy your bargain weeks.

 

[AwayWeGo]

No Need To Pity The Timeshare Sellers.

You guys probably think Im a jerk, but I'm a jerk with more money in my wallet now - so who cares- I feel great about spending a SECOND morning of my vacation dealing with this (besides, it was cloudy out)

Jerk, no.

Heavy-duty pushback, yes. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

We feel we win our encounters with the timeshare sellers if we're out of there in a reasonable time with our freebies in hand & nothing purchased. We don't feel it necessary to correct the timeshare sellers' misinformation or to rub their noses in the real value of the timeshares they're selling (the eBay prices).

It's not that we object to hard-nosed countermeasures. It's just that, for us, it's too much trouble compared with just sitting there passively till they give up & herd us on over to the freebies window.

Good to know there are more vigorous people out there willing to go at it hammer & tongs with the timeshare sellers.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[rsnash]

She then said, "well you know we ROFR". I replied that if I attempted to purchase a unit through resale that she would have to excercise ROFR on 16 deals and by then a 17th would pop up - you wouldn't want to see me around the complex if you do that to me....
I have too many friends, and like it here to much to avoid doing this deal with a resale and the last thing she'd want is me wishing her a merry christmas and a happy new year every year for the next 54 years!

I don't understand this part. Why would she have to exercise ROFR 16 times? And, it's not like they are doing it to you personally that you should feel spited if they do it to you. They do it based on the price and if they need the inventory for their sales office.

 

[AwayWeGo]

R. O. F. R. = R. O. F. L.

I don't understand this part. Why would she have to exercise ROFR 16 times? And, it's not like they are doing it to you personally that you should feel spited if they do it to you. They do it based on the price and if they need the inventory for their sales office.

The timeshare seller was saying (in effect), "You can't save money buying these resale because we do ROFR."

The pushing-back customer was saying (in effect), "Go ahead & ROFR these out from under me all you want. I'll just keep on making offers on more & more resales. You ROFR 16 out from under me & I'll just buy the 17th. By then I'll be really steamed & will keep on giving you a tough time whenever I'm here for the next 54 years."

Typically the timeshare sellers explain ROFR by saying it's done "to keep resale prices from going 'too low'." That's bunk. Prices sink into "too low" territory regardless. But with ROFR only the timeshare gets to buy the lowball resales. Sellers don't get a nickel more, they just get their nickels form the timeshare company instead of getting'm from a regular walking-around resale timeshare buyers.

ROFR = ROFL.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[caribbean]

Jerk? No way. Way to go. They are the jerks. And considering that WJL charges fees (pure profit) to RCI traders that have already been paid by the owner prior to deposit as part of their MF, I think they got what they deserve. Thanks for the laugh.

Are you sure you want to own there? There are a lot of other nicer places in the Caribbean. Having seen the maintenacnce problems in one of the newer units, I really have questions about the quality of the construction. I would be worried that there will be special assessments down the road as maintenance issues arrise.

 

[djanash]

Jerk, no.


It's not that we object to hard-nosed countermeasures. It's just that, for us, it's too much trouble compared with just sitting there passively till they give up & herd us on over to the freebies window.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

I was done browsing and wasn't interested free lunches and spa visits..I wanted the best possible price and didnt want to waste any more time with them...And you know, it's not like she sat there and listened w/o speaking...she was a feisty one! Thats why I kicked it up a notch on her and ended up releasing it on the Message board...it felt great to get over on her and walk out of there knowing that I did the right thing by calling her out

 

[djanash]

I don't understand this part. Why would she have to exercise ROFR 16 times? And, it's not like they are doing it to you personally that you should feel spited if they do it to you. They do it based on the price and if they need the inventory for their sales office.

I don't think the developers going to be interested in buying up all that was on sale out there and I did feel spited becasue it's almost as if she was saying that I couldn't win and I would never be welcome at Windjammer becasue of ROFR. They were intimidating me into thinking that buying a resale was an IMPOSSIBILITY?!

I just wanted to be clear that I was dead serious about getting the share I wanted and the week I wanted..so fending me off was going to be like trying to stay dry in a rainstorm
In the end if they do use ROFR, I didn't lose anything

 

[djanash]

Are you sure you want to own there? There are a lot of other nicer places in the Caribbean. Having seen the maintenacnce problems in one of the newer units, I really have questions about the quality of the construction. I would be worried that there will be special assessments down the road as maintenance issues arrise.

I'll admit as a 29 y/o I haven't been to Caribbean much but I have about 12 coworkers from the island that come here to be with their families every year between Xmas and NYEve. We've had a blast and I love it here and plan on spending it with my own friends and family in the future.. I think I ended up buying (eventually) here for the right reasons. And I fee like WJL offers us flexibility if we exchange every once in a while..feel free to chime in on that point

As far as the future is concerned, I've done a fair amount of research while around St Lucia and online regarding recent construction and unit quality....just so were on the same page would you mind clarifying...Unit 120 pipe bursting? The landslide? Noisy construction? The resort did have something new being built this week but the road was closed off

 

[Patri]

My print out from various sites on line:
1BR , 1Bath , No Pool, "Open" lay out, - WEEK 40 - 4k
Comparable Unit WEEK 51 and 52 - 10.5K each

I actually ended up contacting some sellers one and looks like we'll be getting weeks all 3 weeks?! For around 22K combined Wow!!!!!



I'm a little confused. Now are you buying three weeks? If so, are you looking 10 years down the road? Will you want to be responsible for those maintenance fees? Isn't it likely your circumstances or family situation will change? The added cost to exchange for other locations with lower m/f may not make this so attractive. If you are sure you want to go to this same resort every year, go for it. But I don't see how that is realistic.

 

[Babs from UK]

Windjammer timeshare

Hi, I have owned at Windjammer Landing since 2000. I don't think there is anything in my contract about ROFR with regards to resale. Windjammer salesstaff want to meet to discuss changing my contract but I am sticking with it. All leases are up in 2062.

Allegedly we have a "non-disturbance" clause in our January contract but that did not stop the building work a few years ago!

Re resale. There are some great deals around at the moment with private resales. We did look at upgrading to a new 2-bedroom villa and the saleslady offered us a trade-in for the amount we orginally paid for our current villa. Not bad and better than resale value but, with the current exchange rate, we are holding for now.

I found your comment interesting in that the salesperson was willing to come down so much on a new sale. Maybe I should try again dealing with her!

If you have any questions about owning there do send me a private message. I am a timeshare owner but do not represent the resort in any way.

We have had a great time owning there over the past years and still love our villas but are annoyed at the moment that renters are getting great deals and offers off restaurant prices and there is nothing on offer for for the owners. A lot of owners are cross about this as we feel we are supporting the resort in difficult times. It was very quiet when I was out in January with mainly owners and few renters.

 

[Babs from UK]

Windjammer Villas

Djnash

I own at villa 212 and was there a few weeks ago. The villa did not leak this time (!) but the condition of the wooden balcony and stairs was not so good. Not dangerous yet but will need to be looked at. The two villas downstairs had problems with drains and gurgling sounds in the middle of the night. Windjammer have said that they would be refurbishing these villas but goodness knows when! The fourplex owners who own in January are getting together and writing to the resort and insisting on upgrades next year unless the problems are fixed.

Re the Hibiscus Suites. These are right in front of the beach and have more of a condo feel. They are lovely inside and have hot tubs on the patios and balconies. The sale prices are quite high for these though.

There are brand-new villas built at the top of the resort and they are gorgeous. We looked at villa 418 and it was spectacular. However, the deck area was quite small and the pool was overlooked from the upstairs bedrooms of the next-door villas so not sure it is for us.

We have no plans to sell and are looking forward to our next visit in June (when I will be asking what maintenance is being done on our January villa).

 

[bogey21]

If you weren't planning to buy (and it is obvious you weren't), why bother the lady. She is just trying to make a living. Just possibly while you were enjoying yourself at her expense she may have lost a sale to another salesperson. It's tough out there. Screwing with someone's livelihood for your own enjoyment sucks!

George

 

[gorevs9]

If you weren't planning to buy (and it is obvious you weren't), why bother the lady. She is just trying to make a living. Just possibly while you were enjoying yourself at her expense she may have lost a sale to another salesperson. It's tough out there. Screwing with someone's livelihood for your own enjoyment sucks!

George

Here's what I usually encounter.

1. Someone offers $100 to sit for 90 minutes to listen to a sales pitch.
2. I agree and after 90 minutes, I say no thank you.
3. Salesperson gets rude and asks why I attended if I had no intention of buying
4. I reply it was THE RESORT that solicited ME and offered me the $$$, please take up any complaints with them.

So if I played with them for 5 hours, I'd be guilty. Maybe the resort should offer $50 for me NOT to attend.

 

[MCJ]

Please excuse my ignorance but what is ROFR?

I have a timeshare I bought 5 years ago and have never used. Unfortunately, I spent waaaay too much money trying to sell my timeshare because of promises from liers and thieves in this industry. This month alone I've been cold called by two companies wanting to sell my timeshare. One going as far as to say they had a buyer although I've never listed with them.

I am researching the forum for information so I an get rid of this timeshare by either selling or donating it.

Any insight is appreciated.

 

[theo]

Please excuse my ignorance but what is ROFR?

I am researching the forum for information so I an get rid of this timeshare by either selling or donating it.

Right Of First Refusal; the right of a company (Marriott, for example) to step in and buy back the timeshare for the same amount as agreed to between seller and a willing private buyer. ROFR generally doesn't exist outside of the "big corporates".

Don't plan on donating. In this economy, very few charities are accepting timeshares anymore. It would have to be high value, fully paid up and easily sold to even be considered as an acceptable donation offering.

More important, don't listen to any of those bandits who allegedly "have a buyer lined up". They don't. That's just the "hook" to get you to pay them an upfront fee, usually somewhere between $400 -- $1,000. Once they have that upfront fee firmly in hand, the mythical buyer will immediately disappear and your timeshare will end up ignored on some obscure web site. Sell it yourself. Find the current market value (unfortunately, this may well be a disappointing revelation) by checking out prices on various timeshare sites, as well as reviewing "closed listings" on eBay for weeks like yours. This will at lleast give you a realistic "range" of true, current market value.
Good luck.

 

[MCJ]

Ah, OK. Thank you.

 

[Talent312]

Please excuse my ignorance but what is ROFR?

ROFR = "Right of First Refusal." Many TS developerss maintain control over their inventory by selectively exercising an option written into the sales documents to step into the shoes of the resale-buyer and say, in effect, "Thank you very much. We'll take it back at that price," thus leaving the buyer out in the cold (with a refund of whatever deposit he made).

Developers argue that this "helps sellers" by keeping resale prices from going too low, but the reality is that, more often than not, the developer gets a used unit at a steal and then resells at retail prices, as if it was theirs all along.

I have a timeshare I bought 5 years ago and have never used. Unfortunately, I spent waaaay too much money trying to sell my timeshare because of promises from liers and thieves in this industry. This month alone I've been cold called by two companies wanting to sell my timeshare. One going as far as to say they had a buyer although I've never listed with them.

NEVER pay anyone to sell your TS. Your TS won't sell (some problem with the buyer). They'll do little more than list it on a website or e-Bay, which you could do yourself for far less money, and you'll never see your money again.

 

[tombo]

If you weren't planning to buy (and it is obvious you weren't), why bother the lady. She is just trying to make a living. Just possibly while you were enjoying yourself at her expense she may have lost a sale to another salesperson. It's tough out there. Screwing with someone's livelihood for your own enjoyment sucks!

George

I agree. Why go when you have no intention of buying?

I feel that there are two very good reasons to not attend a timeshare presentation no matter what freebie they are offering.

1. I don't want to waste half a day of my vacation for a measly $100, a free meal, or free tickets to a theme park.

2. It is very unfair to the salesperson to go when you know you aren't going to buy.

It is easy to justify since many of the salesmen lie to make a sale. I have left several presentations mad because of the high pressure tactics and lies they used to try and get me to buy (a bad experience I don't want to endure on what is supposed to be a relaxing vacation). However, some of the salesmen are honest hard working people with families to support. I have felt bad more than once after the presentation was over because they were very nice and I knew that I had wasted their time and prevented them from possibly making a sale. They get paid nothing when people don't buy. The people talking you into coming get paid if you show up, the salesman is not so lucky. How would you like to work hard for several hours for no pay? Many years ago I sold cars at a Ford dealership. Many times people would come on the lot and spend hours kicking tires and driving the new models with no intention of buying. While I was spending time with them an interested buyer might come up and I had no chance at a sale or a paycheck because I was obligated to show vehicles to the tire kicker. If you had ever worked a commission only job you would have a little more compassion. The only timeshare representatives that I say no to now are the one's who won't quit insisting that I come to a presentation, but I didn't go to them knowing I was wasting their time, they came to me.

It is unfair to my wife and myself to spend thousands on a vacation and blow half a day of it for $100 or so worth of freebies, and it is unfair to the salesman if I go knowing that there is no way I will ever buy a week retail. I simply refuse to attend any more presentations no matter what they offer. It is better for all involved.

 

[shagnut]

If you weren't planning to buy (and it is obvious you weren't), why bother the lady. She is just trying to make a living. Just possibly while you were enjoying yourself at her expense she may have lost a sale to another salesperson. It's tough out there. Screwing with someone's livelihood for your own enjoyment sucks!

George

I think you were incredibly rude. When I go to the pitch I never buy but I'm still not rude.I just ask them to match what I paid previouslyand of course they can't. I got blasted here on the boards one time because an owner of the Galleon wanted to know how I got the room I ended up in . Told her it was last minute but I got it with my 250$ ts. She was upset and I wasn't trying to be ugly. The remark about the wheelchair was just plain ugly. Sorry, I just had to vent. shaggy

 

[Conan]

I've suffered enough insulting, lying salespeople that I no longer go to sales tours.

But I don't think that justifies taking pleasure in leaving them "with their tail between their legs when I was through with them."

 

[AwayWeGo]

I Agree.

I don't think that justifies taking pleasure in leaving them "with their tail between their legs when I was through with them."

Simply walking away with the freebies in hand after politely saying No Thanks should be satisfaction enough.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[UWSurfer]

Karma doesn't care which side of right or wrong you happen to be on...treating people badly can come back to haunt you.

 

[rickandcindy23]

If you weren't planning to buy (and it is obvious you weren't), why bother the lady. She is just trying to make a living. Just possibly while you were enjoying yourself at her expense she may have lost a sale to another salesperson. It's tough out there. Screwing with someone's livelihood for your own enjoyment sucks!

George

I never planned to buy anything, but I did buy three times. :rofl: Rick and I swore to each other we wouldn't buy, before we walked into that presentation. How many people walk into a presentation and say, "Okay, I like the place, tell me how much, and I will go ahead and buy from you." Doesn't happen. These presentations are meant to change your mind, and to entice you, and all for the free gift!

Timeshare should be sold differently, but even the resale sites aren't hopping with buyers, and everyone knows that the timeshare they buy is used upon arrival. This isn't like a new car.

 

[Carl D]

Why did you attend the presentation? It sounds as though you just went for the confrontation.

I would never attend one of these things, but in limited circumstances I understand why others do.
Learning the system and seeing the unit is a valid reason IMO. To a lessor extent the freebies are another, although I have a little problem with that.
To attend for the sole purpose of arguing with, being rude to, and showing up the sales staff makes absolutely no sense to me.