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(Maintenance Fees + Taxes) / Points

grkmec

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Has anyone gone through and calculated this across each property for each room size / season combination? If so, would love to see the data.
 

Helios

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Has anyone gone through and calculated this across each property for each room size / season combination? If so, would love to see the data.

I'll second that.:ponder:
 

Jason245

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I don't see a point for it.. what can be learned that isn't already known?

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Helios

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I don't see a point for it.. what can be learned that isn't already known?

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True...However, IMHO, the value I see is that it will provide a quick snapshot in a single place that can help people assess future purchases.

Sure, all info is known, but it is not summarized in single place. Having it in excel would be nice so data can be manipulated and analyzed based on your needs
 

Jason245

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We have the mf thread every year with this info.. I guess you could take it, create the info and share it with everyone.

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JSparling

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We have the mf thread every year with this info.. I guess you could take it, create the info and share it with everyone.

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Yes, would be easy to do just like Jason said. It's fairly common knowledge that for "regular" units (such as a 2BR platinum, 7,000 unit) the cheapest MF to points ratio is at the Vegas Strip location (11 cents). 2nd cheapest for a "regular" unit is at the Vegas Paradise/Hilton/Karen location.

If you have big $$ to spend and want to get one of the 20,000+ units in Hawaii you can get a lower MF/point than that. My best MF/point ratio is 9 cents and that's by having a platinum penthouse unit. The higher the season and unit type you can get the lower your MF/point cost. So platinum season, premium unit would be better than a platinum season, plus unit. But, of course, the better the combination of season and unit premium the more you'll have to pay for it.

Summary - for "normal" units with reasonable buy-in prices the best MY you can find is around 11 cents/point and that's in Vegas.

Summary #2 - you can't look just at the MF/point numbers. You really need to look at the total cost, all in, over about 10 years to evaluate your best purchase options. Sometimes, often frequently, paying a little more on the purchase price is worth it in the long run. If I pay $3,000 more to purchase a unit than you do but my MF's are $300/year less than yours then (ignoring the time value of money (which may be stupid) and all things equal such as the annual MF increase) after 10 years I've recovered my $3,000. And in year 11 I now have a better point/total cost ratio than you.

If you PM me your e-mail I'll send you the sheet I use to evaluate purchases to find the best long-term point/total cost ratios.
 

SmithOp

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What jsparling said, you have to consider buy in cost and how many use years you anticipate. One other thing, its not easy to find exactly what you want on the resale market...
 

Tamaradarann

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Inheritance and Resale Value should also be considered

What jsparling said, you have to consider buy in cost and how many use years you anticipate. One other thing, its not easy to find exactly what you want on the resale market...

Purchase Price and Maintenance Fees for the number of use years you anticipate should certainly be considered. However, at the end of your use years what? The Inheritance and Resale Value should also be considered and that may not be so easy to factor in. Will your children and grandchildren use the timeshare and pay the maintenance? The maintenance fee difference could conceivably go on forever. Will you sell the timeshare on the resale market? A higher resale value could offset a considerable portion of the higher purchase price.
 

SmithOp

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Helios

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Jason245

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Thanks. Anyone knows what is the ROFR for the GW penthouse units that get 28K points? onder:
Given the type of customer that would buy it.. I would imagine around 50k..since it would sell for at least around 300k from developer. .probably with 1 million bonus points that expire in 2 years.

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Tamaradarann

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GW Penthouse Prices and ROFR

Given the type of customer that would buy it.. I would imagine around 50k..since it would sell for at least around 300k from developer. .probably with 1 million bonus points that expire in 2 years.

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I have been to presentations a few years ago when they were selling GW Penthouse Platinum 28K for $135,000. Since the MF/points is so desirable on these units I don't even know if there are any out there now to be bought from the developer. If one was to be on the market resale I am sure that Hilton would make the ROFR much higher than $50K, more like $100K or more, since their inventory of those units are so scare that they would like to have it to sell and they know they can sell it easily or rent it for big dollars.
 

Jason245

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I have been to presentations a few years ago when they were selling GW Penthouse Platinum 28K for $135,000. Since the MF/points is so desirable on these units I don't even know if there are any out there now to be bought from the developer. If one was to be on the market resale I am sure that Hilton would make the ROFR much higher than $50K, more like $100K or more, since their inventory of those units are so scare that they would like to have it to sell and they know they can sell it easily or rent it for big dollars.

My understanding is that desirable intervals usually have a ROFR of around the 1/3 - 1/5 range.

For example, a 7k points package will pass ROFR for around $1/point and sell for ~4-5 bucks a point...
 

Tamaradarann

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Desirable but not unique and scarce

My understanding is that desirable intervals usually have a ROFR of around the 1/3 - 1/5 range.

For example, a 7k points package will pass ROFR for around $1/point and sell for ~4-5 bucks a point...

I agree with you for desirable 7K intervals which are at every resort. However, the 28K intervals are 3 BR penthouse platinum that are only at the Grand Waikikian and only on the penthouse floors. They also are the only ones which have maintenance fees less than $.10/point. I am sure these get special attention and don't fall under a rule.
 

Jason245

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I agree with you for desirable 7K intervals which are at every resort. However, the 28K intervals are 3 BR penthouse platinum that are only at the Grand Waikikian and only on the penthouse floors. They also are the only ones which have maintenance fees less than $.10/point. I am sure these get special attention and don't fall under a rule.

I am not so sure. HGVC doesn't want inventory on their books or their cash used for inventory (hense the use of OPM for construction of new resorts, and them not actually owning the intervals they are selling).

Given all the construction going on and the lack of significant recent ROFR activity, I actually think that this is a sign of things to come. After All, Why should they spend cash to buy inventory that will take them months to sell when they can just sell something that costs them nothing until it is sold.

They have over 240k members now, and have reached a criticle mass where they are taking in at least $36 Million a year in membership fees and still have at least a 6 year backlog of inventory that they can sell. I would not be surprised if they actually start decreasing the ROFR activity and/or eliminate it on anything other than Plat Weeks, and even then only being willing to pick them up at low or very low prices (think 7k points units at 50 cents a point or less). They have obligations to developers as to what they are going to be pushing (and right now there are 135 two BR units comming on line which equates to over 7000 intervals in Hilton Head alone, and lets not forget the other resorts that are in progress including all the space for additional construction in Orlando they have).

This is already a trend that has started to be noticed, and I expect it to continue for some time.
 

Tamaradarann

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I agree Except for the GW Penthouse Units

I am not so sure. HGVC doesn't want inventory on their books or their cash used for inventory (hense the use of OPM for construction of new resorts, and them not actually owning the intervals they are selling).

Given all the construction going on and the lack of significant recent ROFR activity, I actually think that this is a sign of things to come. After All, Why should they spend cash to buy inventory that will take them months to sell when they can just sell something that costs them nothing until it is sold.

They have over 240k members now, and have reached a criticle mass where they are taking in at least $36 Million a year in membership fees and still have at least a 6 year backlog of inventory that they can sell. I would not be surprised if they actually start decreasing the ROFR activity and/or eliminate it on anything other than Plat Weeks, and even then only being willing to pick them up at low or very low prices (think 7k points units at 50 cents a point or less). They have obligations to developers as to what they are going to be pushing (and right now there are 135 two BR units comming on line which equates to over 7000 intervals in Hilton Head alone, and lets not forget the other resorts that are in progress including all the space for additional construction in Orlando they have).

This is already a trend that has started to be noticed, and I expect it to continue for some time.

I agree with everything you are saying, except for GW Penthouse Units since their point value is so high versus the maintenance fees. The only way to find out is to purchase one on resale for say 50K and see what happens. Have you seen any available on resale???
 

Jason245

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I agree with everything you are saying, except for GW Penthouse Units since their point value is so high versus the maintenance fees. The only way to find out is to purchase one on resale for say 50K and see what happens. Have you seen any available on resale???


Judi has a GW listed for $63k (28750 pts), however by my math, the MF are around 11 cents a point (if her listing info is correct).

That being said.. I don't have a need for that many points.
 
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Helios

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Given the type of customer that would buy it.. I would imagine around 50k..since it would sell for at least around 300k from developer. .probably with 1 million bonus points that expire in 2 years.

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Wow, insane.
 

Helios

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Judi has a GW listed for $63k (28750 pts), however by my math, the MF are around 11 cents a point (if her listing info is correct).

That being said.. I don't have a need for that many points.

Hopefully a Tugger goes for it and reports back.
 

grkmec

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Judi has a GW listed for $63k (28750 pts), however by my math, the MF are around 11 cents a point (if her listing info is correct).

That being said.. I don't have a need for that many points.

More like 12.5c when you include taxes.
 

Tamaradarann

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Maintenance Fee for GW 28,750 Point Unit

Judi has a GW listed for $63k (28750 pts), however by my math, the MF are around 11 cents a point (if her listing info is correct).

That being said.. I don't have a need for that many points.

I haven't followed the maintenance fee for the GW 28,750 but it was approximately $2000 when I priced it about 3 years ago. Is it over $3,000 now? One of the selling points of buying this unit was that instead of paying four maintenance fees for four 7000 point maintenance fees to get 28K points you could pay one maintenance fee which was considerably lower. However, if it over $3,000 then that advantage pretty much goes away.

I guess unless someone buys this unit and it goes to ROFR we won't know what Hilton will do about ROFR on this unit.
 

JSparling

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I haven't followed the maintenance fee for the GW 28,750 but it was approximately $2000 when I priced it about 3 years ago. Is it over $3,000 now?

I show for 2014 it was $3,529. So that would be 12.3 cents per point. You can do much better in Vegas. And that was last year, I'm sure it went up in 2015. And will go up for 2016.

The GW doesn't follow the "all same-number-of-bedroom units have the same MF's". I think a 2BR and a 2BR Plus have the same. But a 2BR Premium and 2BR Penthouse are higher than the lower 2BR's. The GW is the only property I'm aware of that does this. We own 2 different platinum penthouses in Vegas and they have the same MF's as the poor people with silver season, non-penthouse units.
 

Helios

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I show for 2014 it was $3,529. So that would be 12.3 cents per point. You can do much better in Vegas. And that was last year, I'm sure it went up in 2015. And will go up for 2016.

The GW doesn't follow the "all same-number-of-bedroom units have the same MF's". I think a 2BR and a 2BR Plus have the same. But a 2BR Premium and 2BR Penthouse are higher than the lower 2BR's. The GW is the only property I'm aware of that does this. We own 2 different platinum penthouses in Vegas and they have the same MF's as the poor people with silver season, non-penthouse units.

With that combination of high MF and really high price it doesn't really make sense to buy there. The GW is not even OF, not sure why people would pay that kind of money to be in a unit that has buildings in front of you. Looking at roofs is not appealing to me.
 

Tamaradarann

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Wow that is a high maintenance Fee!

I show for 2014 it was $3,529. So that would be 12.3 cents per point. You can do much better in Vegas. And that was last year, I'm sure it went up in 2015. And will go up for 2016.

The GW doesn't follow the "all same-number-of-bedroom units have the same MF's". I think a 2BR and a 2BR Plus have the same. But a 2BR Premium and 2BR Penthouse are higher than the lower 2BR's. The GW is the only property I'm aware of that does this. We own 2 different platinum penthouses in Vegas and they have the same MF's as the poor people with silver season, non-penthouse units.

With that high a maintenance fee I have to agree that the 50K ROFR that Jason has estimated may be right on. Does anyone know the current selling price that Hilton is charging for the GW 28K units?
 
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