• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

loss of complimentary guest certificates in "new" VIP by Wyndham Benefits program

rickandcindy23

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
31,894
Reaction score
8,998
Points
1,049
Location
The Centennial State
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Founder; Disney OKW & SSR; Marriott's Willow Ridge,Shadow Ridge,Grand Chateau;Val Chatelle; Hono Koa OF (3); SBR(LOTS), SDO a few; Grand Palms; WKORV-OF (2),Westin Desert Willow.
It's amazing to me how quickly people acquiesce to arbitrary rules after being promised one thing at the sales' table, then quite another after a year or two. Wyndham decided that unlimited guest certificates for platinum is suddenly limited to 15 per million. That was years ago now, and we have people here on TUG who think it's too many. Promises that are broken at the whim of Wyndham executives to hurt Platinum (now Founders) level owners is inexcusable and always was. But who is going to fight Wyndham as an average person? Not many. A few have, but not many have attempted it. I have paperwork that I kept that promises unlimited guest certificates. I kept all of my paperwork, plus the DVD they gave us that explained benefits.
 

55plus

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Messages
2,543
Reaction score
1,174
Points
398
Location
USA! USA! USA!
As Tuggers read these posting about VIP benefits being constantly erode, they’ll think twice about buying more points to upgrade to VIP. That in itself will hurt Wyndham sales.
 

dgalati

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
3,393
Reaction score
1,327
Points
298
The amount of free GCs has always been determined by how many Developer points an owner has, resell points are irrelevant when determining free GCs
Did I mention resale? What about if you use a PIC to get to 1 million? PIC points are used to become a VIP but only require a small amount of developer points to be purchased.You believe that is the same as buying all developer points at $150/1000? Maybe Wyndham should adjust GC's based on developer purchased points only without adding the cheap way in of a PIC?
 

Braindead

TUG Member
Joined
May 23, 2016
Messages
2,504
Reaction score
1,243
Points
298
Did I mention resale? What about if you use a PIC to get to 1 million? PIC points are used to become a VIP but only require a small amount of developer points to be purchased.You believe that is the same as buying all developer points at $150/1000? Maybe Wyndham should adjust GC's based on developer purchased points only without adding the cheap way in of a PIC?
Yes it could be resale as well, there was a timeframe when Affiliate resale contracts counted as Developer points.
Yes PICs count, as long as it’s coded Developer points it doesn’t matter where the points come from.
No that doesn’t change my previous answer, it says” Developer points an owner has”
 

cbyrne1174

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Messages
1,916
Reaction score
1,598
Points
274
Location
Tampa, FL
Resorts Owned
Club Wyndham, Marriott, DVC
100% resale!!
As Tuggers read these posting about VIP benefits being constantly erode, they’ll think twice about buying more points to upgrade to VIP. That in itself will hurt Wyndham sales.

I'm pretty sure less than 10% of their retail sales are from people who are actually making an informed decision, so watering down VIP probably doesn't hurt them as much as you would think. Most people I talk to at the resorts are retail purchasers and have no idea about the resale market.
 

dgalati

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
3,393
Reaction score
1,327
Points
298
I'm pretty sure less than 10% of their retail sales are from people who are actually making an informed decision, so watering down VIP probably doesn't hurt them as much as you would think. Most people I talk to at the resorts are retail purchasers and have no idea about the resale market.
Or a PIC
 

dgalati

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
3,393
Reaction score
1,327
Points
298
Yes it could be resale as well, there was a timeframe when Affiliate resale contracts counted as Developer points.
Yes PICs count, as long as it’s coded Developer points it doesn’t matter where the points come from.
No that doesn’t change my previous answer, it says” Developer points an owner has”
Developer purchased points?
 

55plus

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Messages
2,543
Reaction score
1,174
Points
398
Location
USA! USA! USA!
I'm pretty sure less than 10% of their retail sales are from people who are actually making an informed decision, so watering down VIP probably doesn't hurt them as much as you would think. Most people I talk to at the resorts are retail purchasers and have no idea about the resale market.
I feel it’s my duty to tell others about TUG and the resale market.
 

HitchHiker71

Moderator
Joined
Jun 29, 2018
Messages
4,169
Reaction score
3,693
Points
549
Location
The First State
Resorts Owned
Outer Banks Beach Club I (PIC Plus)
Colonies at Williamsburg (PIC Plus)
CWA VIP Gold (718k EY)
National Harbor Resale (689k)
Be careful on how many times you say "loophole". I think it would also have to be tied to developer purchased points only. How can a owner gripe it is a benefit that was paid for if they PIC'd to VIP with a minimum amount of developer points purchased? Or a owner that bought 300k of developer points to be grandfathered in VIP. Now if a owner bought 1 million plus developer points I would think they have a legitimate gripe as it is a benefit that was truly paid for with developer purchased points only.

AFAIK it's already only tied to developer points. I get 10 GCs per annum right now, yet I own 1.4MM points (about half retail, half resale).
 

Sandi Bo

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2011
Messages
5,083
Reaction score
4,642
Points
498
Location
Omaha
Resorts Owned
Wyndham
Loophole or no loophole - it doesn't really matter. The bottom line is the entire VIP program is subject to change at the sole discretion of Wyndham - up to and including termination of the entire VIP program. Granted, termination is extremely unlikely, but changes are inevitable over time.

I can attempt to get an answer as to what's going on with the 15 GCs per one million points and where this is headed from here. If it's looking like getting 30 GCs for 1.01MM points is changing, I personally think we could propose a sliding scale for VIP owners, perhaps something like:

1.01-1.20MM - +3GCs (18 total)
1.21-1.40MM - +3GCs (21 total)
1.41-1.60MM - +3GCs (24 total)
1.61-1.80MM - +3GCs (27 total)
1.81-2MM = +3 GCs (30 total)

Just thinking out loud here - haven't done any due diligence on the pros/cons, so take this with a grain of salt.
Thanks for offering to work on a solution.

I vote for no change. And with better definition, 15 GC's per Million developer points, or fraction thereof. That is how it was at one time, and how it still is for the majority. Changing the rules, and the way it's being handled, is a bit on the shady side, IMO. That's for VIP Platinum. I believe Gold gets 10 and Silver 5. Maybe we should lobby for 20 for Founders?
 

jules54

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
2,644
Reaction score
713
Points
498
Location
Lincoln, Nebraska
1) Stop referring to free guest confirmations with the level of ownership. With Wyndham nothing is free level of ownership depicts level of maintenance fees.

2) I own 1 million and 821,000 points. I’m still only a Gold VIP. I was a Platinum until 2016 when one of my contracts dropped off. This means I get 10 guest confirmations

3) In a regular year not 10 months of 2020 and not any of 2021. 10 guest confirmations are not enough. In 2020 my guest confirmations were used up by mid February.

4) I use alot of my points for personal use and I have 5 family members on 1 contract so I don’t have to use guest confirmations for them. I rent a lot of reservations. 3 day long weekends in specific market. These are my points bought and paid for and paid for every year with over 12,000.00 in maintenance fees I think I’ll do whatever I want with them. This is a drop in the bucket next to some folks fees.

5) Wyndham does not care about any of its owners period. Not the guy that has 77,000 pts or the guy that has 16 million points. Wyndham is all about the money. Their changes in rules are never to protect the smaller point owner so they can secure better reservations. The changes in the rules are TO ONLY MAKE MORE MONEY.....

6) If you don’t like what Wyndham has done to your account then call or email everyone who has an email address did you find someone to help you or you finally get exhausted. Either way you’ll feel better because you did something besides post on TUG. Learn your programs do your research. And OMG if you constantly want to argue with each other can’t you just PM each other so we don’t all have to read through your bickering to get the information we are looking for.

I feel better now. How out the rest of you TUGGERS? PEACE OUT!!
 

Sandy VDH

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
9,848
Reaction score
4,227
Points
648
Location
Houston, TX
Resorts Owned
Wynd VIP Plat GF, HGVC Elite, WM, HICV, +
IMHO there will always be some form of VIP, without it what is the carrot that sales can dangle to existing owners. I don't know stats but they sell a significant percentage of new sales to existing owners who want VIP Perks and have NO idea about resales.

I am sure there are even a few, like me that with PIC options in place went to wyndhqm to buy to VIP levels. That was my one and only direct purchase from Wyndham of 160K to get me to VIPP with my existing fixed weeks and 2 PICS.
 
Last edited:

am1

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
8,081
Reaction score
1,531
Points
448
They set you free from the timeshare rental trap.

I guess unwillingly but the writing was on the wall when it went to automatic upgrades and playing games (more then normal) with the inventory. It was a good 7 year run.
 

dgalati

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
3,393
Reaction score
1,327
Points
298
I guess unwillingly but the writing was on the wall when it went to automatic upgrades and playing games (more then normal) with the inventory. It was a good 7 year run.
Sometimes it's better to be lucky. I usually bought/stripped /sold or traded deeds up to 1 million points a year but in 2019 the negative balance knocked me out of the game. Fortunately I held no ownership after 3/2020 or during the COVID-19 pandemic shut down because of the negative balance issue. I bought into Worldmark and it is working out better then trading the Wyndham deeds. I have bought back into Wyndham to try another strategy to and make it work for my travel needs.. I feel sorry for the owners that are still the mouse on the rental treadmill. Worse yet the owners that are buying into the sales pitch and are jumping on the treadmill of buying more points to cover all maintenance fees. You remember the days of spending countless hours trying to rent and cover maintenance fees putting up with answering questions and gripes? At least you were able to use the loopholes that made it profitable stripping 3 years of use. I only needed 1 year of use to make my system work but the negative balance put me out of the game.
 
Last edited:

am1

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
8,081
Reaction score
1,531
Points
448
Sometimes it's better to be lucky. I usually bought/stripped /sold or traded deeds up to 1 million points a year but in 2019 the negative balance knocked me out of the game. Fortunately I held no ownership after 3/2020 or during the COVID-19 pandemic shut down because of the negative balance issue. I bought into Worldmark and it is working out better then trading the Wyndham deeds. I have bought back into Wyndham to try another strategy to and make it work for my travel needs.. I feel sorry for the owners that are still the mouse on the rental treadmill. Worse yet the owners that are buying into the sales pitch and are jumping on the treadmill of buying more points to cover all maintenance fees. You remember the days of spending countless hours trying to rent and cover maintenance fees putting up with answering questions and gripes? At least you were able to use the loopholes that made it profitable stripping 3 years of use. I only needed 1 year of use to make my system work but the negative balance put me out of the game.
I do not need anyone to feel sorry for me. I did quite well. I only needed 1 year as well but being able to credit pool points and then book cancel and rebook and have the points pushed forward was my wheelhouse. Wyndham giving me millions of points to use and guest confirmations above and beyond what I was entitled to was icing on the cake. Only regret is I did not work then harder.
 

dgalati

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
3,393
Reaction score
1,327
Points
298
I do not need anyone to feel sorry for me. I did quite well. I only needed 1 year as well but being able to credit pool points and then book cancel and rebook and have the points pushed forward was my wheelhouse. Wyndham giving me millions of points to use and guest confirmations above and beyond what I was entitled to was icing on the cake. Only regret is I did not work then harder.
I get it. I made the system work for my travel needs all within the Club rules for several years. My only regret also was not working the system harder while Wyndham allowed.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 24, 2021
Messages
4
Reaction score
3
Points
3
Resorts Owned
Club Wyndham (Homeless) Millionaire
We just ran headlong into this new policy and we are absolutely livid!

My husband is the owner. He 'won' the timeshare after a very bitter and disgusting divorce from his ex. It was his dream to travel when he retired. So he retired. Then his liver failed. So no travel. Then he was blessed with a new liver but again we could not travel. He finally got the all clear to travel, the same day our state shutdown for COVID. Here we are a year later and finally able to travel and we try to use the timeshare. We booked Atlantic City for memorial day weekend. We put the reservation in my name on March 19 because I'm checking in first with my daughter and hes meeting us there. We get the confirmation. 4 days later we get the email that they are going to cancel the reservation. We call and explain our situation. They assure us we will not be cancelled. The next day we get the email they cancelled the reservation. We call customer care. They tell us to drop dead and hang up. In not so many words... but still the gist of it.

So we call back again because we also reserved Bonnet Creek for the 4th of July. This reservation is in the owners name, not his non owner wife's. I'm however going down to Delray first to get my wheelchair bound mom, then I'm driving up to Orlando and picking up my husband the Owner and checking in. So my question for Wyndham's Customer Care was if the Owner doesn't make his flight for whatever reason that day what are me and my wheelchair bound mom supposed to do? We were told there are no exceptions to the policy. We should find another place to stay.

That's the treatment 1,000,000 VIP platinum points get you. Even if you are the one reserving the room. Screw your family.

They just keep insisting that that my name should be added to the deed so this wont be an issue. SURE cause that will put me on the hook for perpetuating the debt of maintenance. The whole reason my name is not on it to begin with.
 

bnoble

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
11,628
Reaction score
5,365
Points
798
Location
The People's Republic of Ann Arbor
They just keep insisting that that my name should be added to the deed so this wont be an issue. SURE cause that will put me on the hook for perpetuating the debt of maintenance. The whole reason my name is not on it to begin with.
I'd encourage you to consider adding your name to the deed. Wyndham currently offers a deed-back program, and it has also been possible to sell (for not much, but something) most Wyndham points. I don't expect drastic changes in at least the latter of these.

There are lots of reasons why having your name on the deed(s) is helpful; this is just one of them.
 
Joined
Mar 24, 2021
Messages
4
Reaction score
3
Points
3
Resorts Owned
Club Wyndham (Homeless) Millionaire
Wyndham currently offers a deed-back program.... There are lots of reasons why having your name on the deed(s) is helpful; this is just one of them.

name a reason please... because other than this current 'temporary' policy we have been brand ambassadors with no reason legally to do this. As executor of my husbands estate any property not distributed by his will is mine to distribute at such time as necessary, or abandon.
 

bnoble

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
11,628
Reaction score
5,365
Points
798
Location
The People's Republic of Ann Arbor
You never need to use guest certificates and can avail yourself of VIP benefits when he is not traveling with you.

But if you’d rather snark at me you can just do that instead. It’s your nickel.
 
Joined
Mar 24, 2021
Messages
4
Reaction score
3
Points
3
Resorts Owned
Club Wyndham (Homeless) Millionaire
You never need to use guest certificates and can avail yourself of VIP benefits when he is not traveling with you.

But if you’d rather snark at me you can just do that instead. It’s your nickel.
ok Chip?
 

tschwa2

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2008
Messages
16,002
Reaction score
4,676
Points
748
Location
Maryland
Resorts Owned
A few in S and VA, a single resort in NC, MD, PA, and UT, plus Jamaica and the Bahamas
name a reason please... because other than this current 'temporary' policy we have been brand ambassadors with no reason legally to do this. As executor of my husbands estate any property not distributed by his will is mine to distribute at such time as necessary, or abandon.
I'm confused by your post. What is the "temporary" policy that is effecting you?
 
Top