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loss of complimentary guest certificates in "new" VIP by Wyndham Benefits program

rickandcindy23

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It's amazing to me how quickly people acquiesce to arbitrary rules after being promised one thing at the sales' table, then quite another after a year or two. Wyndham decided that unlimited guest certificates for platinum is suddenly limited to 15 per million. That was years ago now, and we have people here on TUG who think it's too many. Promises that are broken at the whim of Wyndham executives to hurt Platinum (now Founders) level owners is inexcusable and always was. But who is going to fight Wyndham as an average person? Not many. A few have, but not many have attempted it. I have paperwork that I kept that promises unlimited guest certificates. I kept all of my paperwork, plus the DVD they gave us that explained benefits.
 

55plus

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As Tuggers read these posting about VIP benefits being constantly erode, they’ll think twice about buying more points to upgrade to VIP. That in itself will hurt Wyndham sales.
 

dgalati

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The amount of free GCs has always been determined by how many Developer points an owner has, resell points are irrelevant when determining free GCs
Did I mention resale? What about if you use a PIC to get to 1 million? PIC points are used to become a VIP but only require a small amount of developer points to be purchased.You believe that is the same as buying all developer points at $150/1000? Maybe Wyndham should adjust GC's based on developer purchased points only without adding the cheap way in of a PIC?
 

Braindead

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Did I mention resale? What about if you use a PIC to get to 1 million? PIC points are used to become a VIP but only require a small amount of developer points to be purchased.You believe that is the same as buying all developer points at $150/1000? Maybe Wyndham should adjust GC's based on developer purchased points only without adding the cheap way in of a PIC?
Yes it could be resale as well, there was a timeframe when Affiliate resale contracts counted as Developer points.
Yes PICs count, as long as it’s coded Developer points it doesn’t matter where the points come from.
No that doesn’t change my previous answer, it says” Developer points an owner has”
 

cbyrne1174

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As Tuggers read these posting about VIP benefits being constantly erode, they’ll think twice about buying more points to upgrade to VIP. That in itself will hurt Wyndham sales.
I'm pretty sure less than 10% of their retail sales are from people who are actually making an informed decision, so watering down VIP probably doesn't hurt them as much as you would think. Most people I talk to at the resorts are retail purchasers and have no idea about the resale market.
 

dgalati

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I'm pretty sure less than 10% of their retail sales are from people who are actually making an informed decision, so watering down VIP probably doesn't hurt them as much as you would think. Most people I talk to at the resorts are retail purchasers and have no idea about the resale market.
Or a PIC
 

dgalati

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Yes it could be resale as well, there was a timeframe when Affiliate resale contracts counted as Developer points.
Yes PICs count, as long as it’s coded Developer points it doesn’t matter where the points come from.
No that doesn’t change my previous answer, it says” Developer points an owner has”
Developer purchased points?
 

55plus

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I'm pretty sure less than 10% of their retail sales are from people who are actually making an informed decision, so watering down VIP probably doesn't hurt them as much as you would think. Most people I talk to at the resorts are retail purchasers and have no idea about the resale market.
I feel it’s my duty to tell others about TUG and the resale market.
 

HitchHiker71

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Be careful on how many times you say "loophole". I think it would also have to be tied to developer purchased points only. How can a owner gripe it is a benefit that was paid for if they PIC'd to VIP with a minimum amount of developer points purchased? Or a owner that bought 300k of developer points to be grandfathered in VIP. Now if a owner bought 1 million plus developer points I would think they have a legitimate gripe as it is a benefit that was truly paid for with developer purchased points only.
AFAIK it's already only tied to developer points. I get 10 GCs per annum right now, yet I own 1.4MM points (about half retail, half resale).
 

Sandi Bo

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Loophole or no loophole - it doesn't really matter. The bottom line is the entire VIP program is subject to change at the sole discretion of Wyndham - up to and including termination of the entire VIP program. Granted, termination is extremely unlikely, but changes are inevitable over time.

I can attempt to get an answer as to what's going on with the 15 GCs per one million points and where this is headed from here. If it's looking like getting 30 GCs for 1.01MM points is changing, I personally think we could propose a sliding scale for VIP owners, perhaps something like:

1.01-1.20MM - +3GCs (18 total)
1.21-1.40MM - +3GCs (21 total)
1.41-1.60MM - +3GCs (24 total)
1.61-1.80MM - +3GCs (27 total)
1.81-2MM = +3 GCs (30 total)

Just thinking out loud here - haven't done any due diligence on the pros/cons, so take this with a grain of salt.
Thanks for offering to work on a solution.

I vote for no change. And with better definition, 15 GC's per Million developer points, or fraction thereof. That is how it was at one time, and how it still is for the majority. Changing the rules, and the way it's being handled, is a bit on the shady side, IMO. That's for VIP Platinum. I believe Gold gets 10 and Silver 5. Maybe we should lobby for 20 for Founders?
 

jules54

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1) Stop referring to free guest confirmations with the level of ownership. With Wyndham nothing is free level of ownership depicts level of maintenance fees.

2) I own 1 million and 821,000 points. I’m still only a Gold VIP. I was a Platinum until 2016 when one of my contracts dropped off. This means I get 10 guest confirmations

3) In a regular year not 10 months of 2020 and not any of 2021. 10 guest confirmations are not enough. In 2020 my guest confirmations were used up by mid February.

4) I use alot of my points for personal use and I have 5 family members on 1 contract so I don’t have to use guest confirmations for them. I rent a lot of reservations. 3 day long weekends in specific market. These are my points bought and paid for and paid for every year with over 12,000.00 in maintenance fees I think I’ll do whatever I want with them. This is a drop in the bucket next to some folks fees.

5) Wyndham does not care about any of its owners period. Not the guy that has 77,000 pts or the guy that has 16 million points. Wyndham is all about the money. Their changes in rules are never to protect the smaller point owner so they can secure better reservations. The changes in the rules are TO ONLY MAKE MORE MONEY.....

6) If you don’t like what Wyndham has done to your account then call or email everyone who has an email address did you find someone to help you or you finally get exhausted. Either way you’ll feel better because you did something besides post on TUG. Learn your programs do your research. And OMG if you constantly want to argue with each other can’t you just PM each other so we don’t all have to read through your bickering to get the information we are looking for.

I feel better now. How out the rest of you TUGGERS? PEACE OUT!!
 

Sandy VDH

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IMHO there will always be some form of VIP, without it what is the carrot that sales can dangle to existing owners. I don't know stats but they sell a significant percentage of new sales to existing owners who want VIP Perks and have NO idea about resales.

I am sure there are even a few, like me that with PIC options in place went to wyndhqm to buy to VIP levels. That was my one and only direct purchase from Wyndham of 160K to get me to VIPP with my existing fixed weeks and 2 PICS.
 
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am1

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They set you free from the timeshare rental trap.
I guess unwillingly but the writing was on the wall when it went to automatic upgrades and playing games (more then normal) with the inventory. It was a good 7 year run.
 

dgalati

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I guess unwillingly but the writing was on the wall when it went to automatic upgrades and playing games (more then normal) with the inventory. It was a good 7 year run.
Sometimes it's better to be lucky. I usually bought/stripped /sold or traded deeds up to 1 million points a year but in 2019 the negative balance knocked me out of the game. Fortunately I held no ownership after 3/2020 or during the COVID-19 pandemic shut down because of the negative balance issue. I bought into Worldmark and it is working out better then trading the Wyndham deeds. I have bought back into Wyndham to try another strategy to and make it work for my travel needs.. I feel sorry for the owners that are still the mouse on the rental treadmill. Worse yet the owners that are buying into the sales pitch and are jumping on the treadmill of buying more points to cover all maintenance fees. You remember the days of spending countless hours trying to rent and cover maintenance fees putting up with answering questions and gripes? At least you were able to use the loopholes that made it profitable stripping 3 years of use. I only needed 1 year of use to make my system work but the negative balance put me out of the game.
 
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am1

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Sometimes it's better to be lucky. I usually bought/stripped /sold or traded deeds up to 1 million points a year but in 2019 the negative balance knocked me out of the game. Fortunately I held no ownership after 3/2020 or during the COVID-19 pandemic shut down because of the negative balance issue. I bought into Worldmark and it is working out better then trading the Wyndham deeds. I have bought back into Wyndham to try another strategy to and make it work for my travel needs.. I feel sorry for the owners that are still the mouse on the rental treadmill. Worse yet the owners that are buying into the sales pitch and are jumping on the treadmill of buying more points to cover all maintenance fees. You remember the days of spending countless hours trying to rent and cover maintenance fees putting up with answering questions and gripes? At least you were able to use the loopholes that made it profitable stripping 3 years of use. I only needed 1 year of use to make my system work but the negative balance put me out of the game.
I do not need anyone to feel sorry for me. I did quite well. I only needed 1 year as well but being able to credit pool points and then book cancel and rebook and have the points pushed forward was my wheelhouse. Wyndham giving me millions of points to use and guest confirmations above and beyond what I was entitled to was icing on the cake. Only regret is I did not work then harder.
 

dgalati

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I do not need anyone to feel sorry for me. I did quite well. I only needed 1 year as well but being able to credit pool points and then book cancel and rebook and have the points pushed forward was my wheelhouse. Wyndham giving me millions of points to use and guest confirmations above and beyond what I was entitled to was icing on the cake. Only regret is I did not work then harder.
I get it. I made the system work for my travel needs all within the Club rules for several years. My only regret also was not working the system harder while Wyndham allowed.
 
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