Long-Term Effects of COVID-19 Adjustments HS

[mentalbreak]

I mentioned on another thread that HS school-from-home is not going well.

Our HS is allowing the option of taking classes for a grade (included in GPA) or Pass/Fail (and excluded from GPA). Do not have to choose until after grades are finalized, and can choose separately by course.

I was wondering if anybody here has any experience with how taking courses pass/fail may impact applying for post-HS education or employment?

Does it depend on the type of class? For example, is taking Math pass/fail viewed differently than PE? Foreign language?

I know this is off-topic, but there is such a wealth of backgrounds here and I appreciate any insight.

 

[bbodb1]

I'm not sure if I am directly answering your question here @mentalbreak but one thing that has stuck with me throughout the years is how little effect both high school and college grades had on employment prospects at the time. Please note I am NOT saying there is NO effect but as one of many factors considered in the overall scheme of things, I can't see it making any significant difference.

FWIW: I think a more applicable question might be to consider how SAT and ACT scores will be viewed going forward for post HS education. GPA's mean comparatively little but SAT and ACT test scores carry a LOT more weight when it comes to college admission and scholarship awards.

 

[elaine]

I have 2 college freshman--so just did college applications last year. I would email a couple colleges and ask them. Is your pass/fail C or better, or D or better. Most colleges that have a foreign lang requirement require a C or better to skip lang in college--ours was 3 years of lang with C or better. I would think if student is applying to highly selective college or field like engineering that a Math grade matters. For Ex, DD applied to a top 20 college in USA-kids are expected to have 4.0 or higher with multiple AP classes. P/F probably would not have looked good and might have knocked her out of being competitive. OTOH, DS got into big state U with 3.6 and mid-range SAT score. I doubt P/F would have mattered for DS.
For employment, if it's right after high school, P/F likely won't matter. Once in college, employers will look at college GPA. My kids put HS GPA on the resumes for internships, but no one cared about how that broke down for classes.

 

[bnoble]

I was wondering if anybody here has any experience with how taking courses pass/fail may impact applying for post-HS education or employment?

I would think if student is applying to highly selective college or field like engineering that a Math grade matters.

I work at Michigan in the College of Engineering, which is in the "highly selective" category (we are comfortably in the top 10 in the US). I don't think we've thought about it yet--we just finished our term and closed our 2020 entering class last week. But, based on everything else we've done so far, I suspect we are going to be very accommodating for students when considering at least the 19-20 academic year, and in particular won't count a Pass (vs. a grade) in a Math course against a student. This was an incredibly disruptive time for everyone, and we understand that; no one is expected to have been able to perform at their normal standard under these circumstances.

For our current students, all A-E graded courses were converted to a special "Pass/No Record-Covid" grading scheme, and students can choose whether to "uncover" their grades over the summer. Pass/NRC grades do not figure into GPAs, but uncovered grades do. My department has some grading thresholds for prerequisites, and we are considering a "Pass" to count for all of them, even though the underlying grade might not be high enough. It would be hard to imagine not doing the same thing for applicants. The University of California (which includes UC Berkeley and UCLA) has already committed to a similar strategy. It's hard to imagine other peer institutions doing anything substantively different.

 

[elaine]

Agree with Mich bnoble for seniors who have been admitted. I was thinking of other HS students, esp. juniors who are applying in the fall--and competition with applications that show a A/B in Calc, French IV, etc. vs. a Pass, esp. if optional grading choice at the HS. Again, at big state U (not an elite like Mich or UVA), it is likely fine.
Some HS, like colleges might have made everything P/F. In that case, they're on the same footing with everyone else in the school and no worries-like schools that don't offer tons of AP classes. They colleges know and don't expect 6-8 AP classes if the HS offers 5 total.

 

[mentalbreak]

Thank you so much for your insights. We have not started the college search process yet for either of our students and feel somewhat lost in making these decisions (our first campus visit with our oldest was scheduled for April).

This has absolutely rocked his world. 8 weeks ago he was A hardworking A- student, and I would have predicted a 4-year college path.

Today, our first focus is making sure our son gets the help he needs and we learn how to support and advocate for him.

Honestly, today I am not sure what his future will hold. And that’s ok if it is not a 4-year college track. I just want to help him make the best decisions to set him up for pursuing his own path. And to not close any doors because of today’s mental health crisis.

I am grateful that their are glimmers of our son shining through this darkness. And that this has manifested itself when he is 14 and in our care, rather than at 18 when he could legally shut us out.

Be well. Thank you!

 

[bbodb1]

@mentalbreak - best of luck with navigating what can only be described as uncharted waters. Because even if you personally have navigated them OR if you have navigated them with other kids, every child has their own unique set of needs and challenges.

Listen. Look. Suggest. And repeat as necessary. That is about the only magic formula I know.

FWIW: Just to give you another perspective on how things can work out in the strangest of ways, all three of our children entered military service. This was never by any design or insistence on our part. One child figured out the Army Reserve made college a whole lot more affordable and joined his senior year of high school. One child graduated college then enlisted in the Army. The other enlisted in the USCG straight out of high school. I am telling these stories NOT meaning to suggest anything other than formula above and to say that kids will almost always find a way to gravitate toward what they want to do. Most of the time, things will work out just fine.

Again, best of luck.

 

[elaine]

keep the dialogue open. ask him about the differences in learning online. ask what he thinks is important in school, life, future, etc. Sometimes, I just sit in my son's room for a while and we'd talk about nothing, then get some other conversations going. Let him know that community college (CC) is an OK option. and that it's his future--and that there will be a future--that we WILL get past C19. And that you are there as guardrails--he drives the car and the rails keep him from falling off. Sometimes, the rails get higher around a tough curve. If his grades are slipping due to C19 atmosphere, mental health, etc. then take the P/F. Those are extenuating circumstances.
And let him know that you want him to have a path forward, whatever it is--CC, 4 year, trade school, and that you're still proud no matter what that path is and that a choice now is not permanent.We have a kid who went to so-so college, almost flunked out, then to trade school, back to CC, then transferred to 4 year and was a top recruit for big 4 accounting firm--no way would we ever have predicted that--plus he's a licensed electrician now, as well.
DS went to 4 year college last year. He was a decent student, but was saying he wanted to go to CC, I think bc he was afraid of the SAT. I had him take it in the summer. His score are good enough for big state U. He applied, got in and went. 1st week he called and said he wished he'd stay home and gone to CC. He said he felt pressured to go to state U--some by us, but more so by his friends. I met with Registrar and they said he could drop (still in drop/add period) and go to CC or try it for a semester and then switch, and other options. I told him his could change his decision to CC, no worries, and that CC was a perfectly OK option, just that he would not get the social engagement or dorm-life and on-campus. Once it was totally his decision, he decided to stay--and did fine--and actually thrived, in his own way (no clubs, no extra curriculum) hanging out with his dorm floor.

 

[bnoble]

I was thinking of other HS students, esp. juniors who are applying in the fall--and competition with applications that show a A/B in Calc, French IV, etc. vs. a Pass, esp. if optional grading choice at the HS.

I understood what you were talking about. I don’t think Michigan will hold grading schemes against those applicants. The elite California publics (Berkeley, UCLA) have already said something similar. This year is not normal, so our way of evaluating students is likely to be considerate of that.

This has absolutely rocked his world. 8 weeks ago he was A hardworking A- student, and I would have predicted a 4-year college path.

Today, our first focus is making sure our son gets the help he needs and we learn how to support and advocate for him.

It sounds like things are very different for your son during the crisis, and this isn’t just a question of getting a couple of lower grades. The change can impact people very differently, and back in my days as an administrator I worked with a lot of students who had a dramatic onset of mental health issues even in much calmer times. If you want to talk about this more, feel free to send me a private message.