Long term covid not that uncommon with mild cases - WSJ

["Roger"]

The Wall Street Journal published an article on people with nothing more than mild cases experiencing long term problems. (The article is probably behind a fire wall.)

They Got Covid One Year Ago. They’re Still Sick.

Scientists are putting new effort into understanding the troubling symptoms of long Covid. These patients are waiting for answers.

www.wsj.com

Suffering from what’s often referred to as “long Covid,” an estimated roughly 10% to 30% of Covid patients continue to experience symptoms months after their initial diagnosis. Many had mild to moderate Covid cases at first, and didn’t require hospitalization. But months later, they are grappling with often-debilitating symptoms that can include brain fog, fatigue, shortness of breath, racing heart beat, and an inability to tolerate physical or mental exertion. ​

​

A February study in JAMA found that roughly one-third of 177 people who’d largely had mild Covid cases reported persistent symptoms up to nine months after illness. Nearly 30% of nonhospitalized patients reported worse quality of life​

Etc.

 

[Old Hickory]

Breaking News. Obese people are still sick months after mild C-19 case.

 

[stmartinfan]

I read the Journal article this morning. It was shocking how mamy people of all ages, and many who had been in good health prior (and not obese) are still struggling. It seemed that most had had mild cases managed at home, but they are dealing with fatigue, brain fog and other symptoms that just don't resolve.

 

[SueDonJ]

Breaking News. Obese people are still sick months after mild C-19 case.

This is so wrong.

Two of my sisters are convinced they had COVID in Dec '19/Jan '20. Both had respiratory viruses that had them back-and-forth to their doctors multiple times with no diagnosis after multiple tests, specifically no flu. They were told it was a virus like the cold, couldn't be treated with antibiotics, and they knew it was being passed around their offices to/from others. Within a month or so COVID-19 was named but they have no doubt at all that it was here earlier than the first outbreaks. Their doctors think so too, but with testing supplies unavailable/in short supply at the beginning and their insurance companies now not willing to pay for antibody testing so long after their symptoms, they're just going to get the vaccines when they can and hope that they never again catch something similar.

One of these sisters is 59YO/5'1"/125lbs, the other is 63YO/5'2"/130lbs. They're not obese, and they don't have any co-morbidities. They exercise regularly, still, although not as much as they did before this illness because to this day, they're suffering fatigue and headaches. One is convinced that another bout will kill her.

One of the reasons we have gotten everything about COVID-19 so wrong is that we're far too willing to deny the obvious. Specifically and most harmful, we deny that although there are demographics that suffer COVID-19 and its effects disproportionately, there is no doubt at all that there are and will continue to be outliers in every other demographic.

It is simply beyond me how we can still be so flippant about it after 535,000+ deaths in this country, 2,600,000+ worldwide.

 

[rhonda]

One of these sisters is 59YO/5'1"/125lbs, the other is 63YO/5'2"/130lbs. They're not obese, and they don't have any co-morbidities. They exercise regularly, still, although not as much as they did before this illness because to this day, they're suffering fatigue and headaches. One is convinced that another bout will kill her.

If I may gently offer: consider testing for sufficient magnesium levels? or simply try adding magnesium supplements if comfortable 'knowing one's own body w/out testing first.'

I also experienced what I believe to have been Covid-19 in Dec 2019 (discussed elsewhere/earlier on TUG). I fought fatigue, migraines and muscle cramps for months following ... until I added a magnesium supplement daily along with increased vitamin levels.

Related articles:
a) Possibility of magnesium supplementation for supportive treatment in patients with COVID-19,

Possibility of magnesium supplementation for supportive treatment in patients with COVID-19

b) Study says vitamin-magnesium combo may reduce severity of COVID-19 in seniors, https://www.news-medical.net/news/2...y-reduce-severity-of-COVID-19-in-seniors.aspx

For me, the magnesium erased my post-Covid-19 fatigue and migraines; the muscle cramps continue ... but are both less frequent and less severe. ( Hmm, might need to adjust potassium and/or look for conflicts in my current protocol. But I've also picked up a new board sport since Dec 2020 and am working my leg muscles pretty hard every day. Yes, I need to be drinking more water and less coffee, too. Yep, need to rebalance a few things!)

Wishing the best to your sisters!

 

[Ken555]

It is simply beyond me how we can still be so flippant about it after 535,000+ deaths in this country, 2,600,000+ worldwide.

Exactly. The callousness and harshness of some comments are truly appalling.

 

[DannyTS]

It is simply beyond me how we can still be so flippant about it after 535,000+ deaths in this country, 2,600,000+ worldwide.

I would like you to tell us where you have read the 535,000 authopsy reports.

Post-mortem

A post-mortem, also known as an autopsy, is the examination of a body after death. The aim of a post-mortem is to determine the cause of death.

www.nhs.uk

).

 

[CPNY]

The brain fog and shortness of breath is real. Been dealing with SOB all day today, although it has gotten much better since the summer/fall. As far as the brain fog, I will completely forget what I’m saying mid sentence and typing has been a huge struggle all year. Although, It is happening less and less

The heart issues have also gotten much better and MRI came back clear. There are still times I feel a rapid heartbeat and palpitation. The radiologist told me that the amount of people with post covid conditions were through the roof.

I would classify my covid as mild, but the effects have still lingered.

I give you this information to prove that I know this virus is real and some have negative affects. With that being said, lets drop the masks if you have zero symptoms and get people out of this constant virtual nonsense.

 

["Roger"]

I would like you to tell us where you have read the 535,000 authopsy reports.

Post-mortem

A post-mortem, also known as an autopsy, is the examination of a body after death. The aim of a post-mortem is to determine the cause of death.

www.nhs.uk

).

Huh?

 

["Roger"]

@CPNY

Sorry to hear about your problems. Wishing you the best.

 

[SueDonJ]

The brain fog and shortness of breath is real. Been dealing with SOB all day today, although it has gotten much better since the summer/fall. As far as the brain fog, I will completely forget what I’m saying mid sentence and typing has been a huge struggle all year. Although, It is happening less and less

The heart issues have also gotten much better and MRI came back clear. There are still times I feel a rapid heartbeat and palpitation. The radiologist told me that the amount of people with post covid conditions were through the roof.

I would classify my covid as mild, but the effects have still lingered.

I give you this information to prove that I know this virus is real and some have negative affects. With that being said, lets drop the masks if you have zero symptoms and get people out of this constant virtual nonsense.

Good wishes for your continued improvement.

 

[SueDonJ]

I would like you to tell us where you have read the 535,000 authopsy reports.

Post-mortem

A post-mortem, also known as an autopsy, is the examination of a body after death. The aim of a post-mortem is to determine the cause of death.

www.nhs.uk

).

Anybody who would give me credit for being educated enough to understand and disseminate for others the results of autopsies, well, they're probably the same people who choose to believe conspiracy theories meant to deny all things COVID and sow distrust in the public for reasons unrelated to the actual medical situation.

Nah, I just trust the people here who have dedicated their professional lives to the health and safety of all the rest of us.

 

[tschwa2]

just a single data point for anyone who thinks someone is reporting cause of death as covid to inflate numbers or somehow to profit from it. My grandmother who died in a nursing home about 20 hrs after being discharged from the hospital with a covid diagnosis has the cause of death listed as natural causes. Without the covid I don't think she would have died that day or that week but it definitely contributed to the timing. I just received the death cert today and was curious what they were going to list. For a nursing home I suppose having Covid as the cause of death would be something they would not like to have on their record. No autopsy since she was considered under medical care and the form was filled out by the Nurse Practitioner who may have seen her the evening before when she arrived but likely didn't see her until she was declared unresponsive about 2 hrs before dying.

 

[DannyTS]

Anybody who would give me credit for being educated enough to understand and disseminate for others the results of autopsies, well, they're probably the same people who choose to believe conspiracy theories meant to deny all things COVID and sow distrust in the public for reasons unrelated to the actual medical situation.

Nah, I just trust the people here who have dedicated their professional lives to the health and safety of all the rest of us.

Food for thought

Why estimating the number of extra cancer deaths caused by coronavirus is so difficult

Estimating the impact of COVID-19 on cancer outcomes is not an easy thing to do.

scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org

 

[DannyTS]

Anybody who would give me credit for being educated enough to understand and disseminate for others the results of autopsies, well, they're probably the same people who choose to believe conspiracy theories meant to deny all things COVID and sow distrust in the public for reasons unrelated to the actual medical situation.

Nah, I just trust the people here who have dedicated their professional lives to the health and safety of all the rest of us.

Your certitude is laughable, there is nothing certain about a death, especially the one of an older person, except that it has occured. Why do you think they use often language like "presumed" on the death certificate?

Reporting Causes of Death for the Elderly Physicians, and others certifying the cause of death, frequently ask staff at the Center for Health Statistics “How do I report the cause of death for a patient who was 100 years old, had no serious diseases that contributed to the death, but gradually dwindled in health?” This handout has been prepared to offer some answers to questions about the certification of causes of death for the elderly. It may be difficult to certify causes of death for the elderly because they may seem to die “with their disease” rather than “of their disease.” An elderly person may have several diseases or conditions present, but sometimes none of them alone or together may clearly lead to the death. When preparing cause-of death statements, the causes should present a clear and distinct etiological sequence, if possible. Reporting terms such as senescence, old age, infirmity, and advanced age are not valuable for public health or medical research. The age of the decedent and the date of birth are both reported elsewhere on the death certificate. In addition, there are no standards about what age is “old.” While old age is reported more frequently for decedents over the age of 90, the Center for Health Statistics received a death certificate in 2001 for a 55-year-old decedent who was reported as dying due to “old age.” When signing the death certificate, the physician or other certifier attests that, in his/her medical opinion, the individual died from the reported causes of death. Even if extensive information is available to the certifier, cause of death may be difficult to determine. The certifier may qualify the causes of death by adding terms such as “probable” or “presumed” or “consistent with.” The chain of events leading directly to death are reported in item 50, proceeding from the immediate cause of death on line a. to the underlying cause of death on the lowest used line. All other significant diseases or conditions that contributed to death but did not result in the underlying cause of death can be reported in item 51.

https://www.oregon.gov/oha/PH/BIRTHDEATHCERTIFICATES/REGISTERVITALRECORDS/Documents/Death/cdelderly.pdf

 

[cman]

I would like you to tell us where you have read the 535,000 authopsy reports.

Post-mortem

A post-mortem, also known as an autopsy, is the examination of a body after death. The aim of a post-mortem is to determine the cause of death.

www.nhs.uk

).

This is where you are;

"In the psychology of human behavior, denialism is a person's choice to deny reality as a way to avoid a psychologically uncomfortable truth. Denialism is an essentially irrational action that withholds the validation of a historical experience or event, when a person refuses to accept an empirically verifiable reality. "

 

[DannyTS]

This is where you are;

"In the psychology of human behavior, denialism is a person's choice to deny reality as a way to avoid a psychologically uncomfortable truth. Denialism is an essentially irrational action that withholds the validation of a historical experience or event, when a person refuses to accept an empirically verifiable reality. "

You do not know how many PCR tests have been declared "positive" despite a high number of amplifications. You do not want to know, you clearly exhibit a severe form of denialsm (psychology of human behaviour) where you claim this problem does not exist despite all the studies about it. How can you claim the number of Covid cases and the number of Covid deaths are accurate when you do not know the most basic information about hundreds of millions of tests? Pathetic.

Look at this one, the lab correctly used less than 30 cycles for their study. But labs have been using 40 and more for the public to determine the "infected" people. Capisce?

UK Variant May be More Deadly

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n579 Results The mortality hazard ratio associated with infection with VOC-202012/1 compared with infection with previously circulating variants was 1.64 (95% confidence interval 1.32 to 2.04) in patients who tested positive for covid-19 in the community. In...

tugbbs.com

 

[DannyTS]

This is where you are;

"In the psychology of human behavior, denialism is a person's choice to deny reality as a way to avoid a psychologically uncomfortable truth. Denialism is an essentially irrational action that withholds the validation of a historical experience or event, when a person refuses to accept an empirically verifiable reality. "

Since you contributed to the thread below of course we know you are aware of the problem with the lack of official data concerning the number of amplifications, but you seem to continue to deny the issue. You know what they call that in psychology

Study shows that PCR tests with 35 cycles or more have an accuracy below 3%, meaning up to 97% of positive results could be false positives.

Source please, I would love to see that. Maybe they changed it too;) I would expecially be interested to compare with the new language from the WHO to see if we are talking about the same thing: "Users of IVDs must read and follow the IFU carefully to determine if manual adjustment of the PCR...

tugbbs.com

 

[DannyTS]

Anybody who would give me credit for being educated enough to understand and disseminate for others the results of autopsies, well, they're probably the same people who choose to believe conspiracy theories meant to deny all things COVID and sow distrust in the public for reasons unrelated to the actual medical situation.

Nah, I just trust the people here who have dedicated their professional lives to the health and safety of all the rest of us.

more food for thought

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.26.21250557v1.full.pdf

 

[DannyTS]

@SueDonJ

"
Testing to help slow the spread of SARS-CoV-2 asks not whether someone has RNA in their nose from earlier infection, but whether they are infectious today. It is a net loss to the health, social, and economic wellbeing of communities if post-infectious individuals test positive and isolate for 10 days. In our view, current PCR testing is therefore not the appropriate gold standard for evaluating a SARS-CoV-2 public health test.
Most people infected with SARS-CoV-2 are contagious for 4–8 days.
7
Specimens are generally not found to contain culture-positive (potentially contagious) virus beyond day 9 after the onset of symptoms, with most transmission occurring before day 5.
7
,
8
This timing fits with the observed patterns of virus transmission (usually 2 days before to 5 days after symptom onset), which led public health agencies to recommend a 10-day isolation period.
9
The short window of transmissibility contrasts with a median 22–33 days of PCR positivity (longer with severe infections and somewhat shorter among asymptomatic individuals).
10
This suggests that 50–75% of the time an individual is PCR positive, they are likely to be post-infectious.
11
,
12

"


www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00425-6/fulltext

 

["Roger"]

Here is an article on another study coming to a similar conclusion as in the opening to this thread. About a third of mild or asymptomatic covid patients have long term reactions. The article allows you to click to the actual study.

Danny, you have five postings on this thread, not one of which addresses the original topic. If you want to address the topic of long term after effects as reported in the Wall Street Journal article, that would be fine. If not, please be polite and let others have a voice. Thanks in advance.

 

[Old Hickory]

Forgive me but when I read a subject line about the pandemic, I do not think about the personal stories. I know plenty of them and they are all real and some are tragic. So I sympathize with your own personal losses and personal issues.

I could offer stories of friends and acquaintances who don't have "long covid" but what difference does that make? We all believe what we want to believe. I believe that for-profit media and politicians want you scared, stupid, and sick. Then you'll want more from them. Sadly, it's working.

 

[Brett]

Forgive me but when I read a subject line about the pandemic, I do not think about the personal stories. I know plenty of them and they are all real and some are tragic. So I sympathize with your own personal losses and personal issues.

I could offer stories of friends and acquaintances who don't have "long covid" but what difference does that make? We all believe what we want to believe. I believe that for-profit media and politicians want you scared, stupid, and sick. Then you'll want more from them. Sadly, it's working.

Probably not much difference

I'm guessing it's your own favorite "media" and "politician" that you consider good and healthy (and not scared)
And the other "bad" media and politicians that are causing all the sickness and stupidity...... right ?

 

[Old Hickory]

Probably not much difference

I'm guessing it's your own favorite "media" and "politician" that you consider good and healthy (and not scared)
And the other "bad" media and politicians that are causing all the sickness and stupidity...... right ?

Nope. All for-profit media is the same as is every career politician and program administrator (Fauci). Your wrong, again.

 

[Ken555]

Nope. All for-profit media is the same as is every career politician and program administrator (Fauci). Your wrong, again.

So which media do you trust? (Please don’t say the guy with a weird tie on YouTube...not that there’s anything wrong with weird ties).


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