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Little to no transmission occurred from asymptomatic case-patients.

Cornell

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Why are those of you who are "not afraid of the virus" planning to get the vaccine? Genuinely curious. Are you planning to wait until others that may not feel the way you do get vaccinated first?
I can't speak to individual people but I am working on this as a research project for my work.
There are many reasons. A few are to protect certain vulnerable people in their lives that they care about. Another is "pay to play".
 

DannyTS

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Why are those of you who are "not afraid of the virus" planning to get the vaccine? Genuinely curious. Are you planning to wait until others that may not feel the way you do get vaccinated first?
A lot of those that are not afraid of the flu, including myself, get the flu vaccine. Can you define "not afraid of the virus"? Should those in good health and in a good shape be in a constant state of panic about Covid, something that the media and the governments want you to be? For certain age groups the chances are higher to die from many other causes including car accidents.

Yesterday I was talking to my family doctor who was complaining that many people are so afraid of the virus that they did not do important tests scheduled last year and that in some cases the tests were critical and time sensitive. He was pretty upset about it. When the dust settles, hopefully we will learn an estimate of the number of lockdown deaths
 

Superchief

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Why are those of you who are "not afraid of the virus" planning to get the vaccine? Genuinely curious. Are you planning to wait until others that may not feel the way you do get vaccinated first?
I am 'afraid' of the virus and have already gotten the first dose of the vaccine. However, I am 69 and don't want to waste any more of my life not doing anything because there is a very slight chance that I might get a serious case of Covid. I believe in being proactive in minimizing my risks by daily exercise, good diet, vitamins, and outdoor activities. These are important factors in overall health, mental attitude, and financial security. I think the 'experts' and political factions have gone too far and have created panic among many people, and there will be longer term health implications.

There are several 'side effects' of some policies that aren't taken into consideration. I have no problem wearing masks inside in crowded places, and have avoided crowds. I've modified travel habits, but not eliminated them. Unfortunately, I can't do strenuous exercise while wearing a mask without getting light headed from breathing in my own carbon dioxide. I see no proven need to wear one when socially distanced and not coughing/ sneezing.

I've seen no real evidence that double masking provides additional safety that justifies the reduced ability to get oxygen. Actually, I still haven't found any scientific study with test and control groups that prove wearing a mask reduces transmission, but intuitively it makes sense and is manageable.

Most people I know are more in the middle regarding Covid, and would prefer to make their own decisions based on the actual data that is made available. Science and statistics always have two sides, but only one is presented in most of our media. 400,000 people die per year in nursing homes. Staff infections are a leading cause for deaths unrelated to existing conditions.
 
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bluehende

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Science and statistics always have two sides, but only one is presented in most of our media. 400,000 people die per year in nursing homes from staff infections, but no big deal is


Nearly 20,000 people died with bloodstream staph infections in 2017.
 

"Roger"

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Superchief

First of all, six feet is the recommended safe distance for normal activity. If you are exercising (or singing), the distance that you are expelling particulates is much greater than six feet.

Danny is going to make a big deal about "lockdown deaths." That is fine, but you also have to consider the number of deaths from covid avoided because of the lockdown. As I am sure you are aware, the flu season has been almost non-existent this year. (Remarkably, the first childhood death from the flu for this year occurred just a couple of days ago.) Maybe others want to believe differently, but I don't believe for a millisecond that the steps that people have been taking in light to covid prevents flu but has had no effect in preventing covid deaths. Also, if you look at the current map of Europe, you can read off which countries gave up on taking precautions by the current case number of covid patients. Not a coincidence in my mind. So, you have to balance lockdown deaths versus lockdown saves.

Finally, you have mentioned that you have had your first vaccine shot. That raises an interesting question yet to be discussed on TUG. Should there be different rules for those vaccinated and those not. (I would agree, for example, that six feet in a gym is fine if you have been vaccinated. non-vaccinated- uhh.) Should there be two sections to restaurants, one for the smokers and one for the non-smokers? (Substitute "vaccinated" for "smokers.") Etc. Maybe this should become a new discussion thread.

In closing, I found the following news report from France 24 (the French equivalent of the BBC) interesting.

Brazil
 

DannyTS

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Danny is going to make a big deal about "lockdown deaths." That is fine, but you also have to consider the number of deaths from covid avoided because of the lockdown.

Brazil
Sure, I would like to know how many Covid deaths have been avoided because of the lockdowns. You can use Florida and California as a recent example. Or Sweden that never locked down and the USA.
 

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1614964468986.png



 

rickandcindy23

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Exactly. When I have a cold I go out of my way to work from home, limit time with others and keep my distance, etc. Basic common sense and consideration of others, at least to me.
What if you aren't sick but people in your household are? This is the dilemma we are facing here with this virus. People who are not sick are staying home to avoid being sick or avoid making others sick.
 

rickandcindy23

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Why are those of you who are "not afraid of the virus" planning to get the vaccine? Genuinely curious. Are you planning to wait until others that may not feel the way you do get vaccinated first?
I am not afraid of the virus, but I am getting the vaccine. That could also be a question to ask, right? Why get the vaccine, if you aren't afraid of the virus?

I am not afraid of the virus because I am healthier than I have been in 25 years, having lost 82 pounds over the last 18 months. Plus, we had it on 3/1 of last year. Rick and I both got sick after traveling from Hawaii through SFO, then to Denver. We had all of the symptoms, got them at exactly the same time, but it wasn't as discussed in the media as it is today. Then we both found out we had the immunity, probably from that illness. We don't know how long the immunity lasts.

A second reason I am not afraid of the virus, I have faith. Faith is something you can acquire, too. It's a door that you open to free yourself from earthly fears.

A third reason, I believe in science and the brilliant people who developed this vaccine. I am wearing a mask, too.

What I do not understand is why my friends who are in their 70's and have had both doses of the vaccine and still have to get the Covid test before traveling to Oahu, and now from Oahu to Maui. That I do not get. That is not following the science.
 

MommaBear

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Where did I say covid was a conspriacy? As usual, you are putting words into other's mouth, and it is getting old.

Fauci and Biden have both said we will not start going back to normal before the end of this year. Why are they saying that, when there is evidence that it will not be the case? I'll stand by my statement, that they, along with most in power, want to insert fear to the general public in order to keep control over them. None of your statements or that link contradict my statement. Nice try, though.

Kurt
What you call fear, I call caution. We don't know enough about how the virus acts to say for certain whether or not asymptomatic it vaccinated people can spread the virus. I am very comfortable wearing a mask to protect others. Isn't it smarter to be cautious than to risk killing another x number of people? I am very impressed with the science based leadership we've had.
 

MommaBear

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I would go a bit further and say that exposure to symptomatic persons will not necessarily lead to the virus. We spent 45 minutes of unmasked exposure with a symptomatic person in his home. He lost taste and smell that night, and tested positive next morning. We thought we were goners. Fortunately, we never developed any symptoms and are happily on vacation.

What do they say? Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see. Works for us so far. That being said, we will get the vaccine when our turn comes....we aren’t stupid.
Transmission does not always happen, as you can see. My daughter had a colleague come to work ill for three days and, like you, we were sure she would get it. Luckily, she did not. OTOH, I cannot tell you the number of people I've diagnosed with strep or mono and those people have had zero idea where they got it. The fun thing about science is that our knowledge is always evolving.
 

rickandcindy23

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You can help build immunity by taking vitamin D and zinc every day. I will continue taking those inexpensive pills long after Covid is in our past. We do that at the advice of a friend who is a nurse in the ICU. I have to say, she has never seen a huge spike in admissions at her hospital in Denver, even though the governor was talking about beds all being filled. She was in disbelief.

It's been a year now, and people are tired of staying home. I want people to go out and enjoy life.
 

MommaBear

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I am not afraid of the virus, but I am getting the vaccine. That could also be a question to ask, right? Why get the vaccine, if you aren't afraid of the virus?

I am not afraid of the virus because I am healthier than I have been in 25 years, having lost 82 pounds over the last 18 months. Plus, we had it on 3/1 of last year. Rick and I both got sick after traveling from Hawaii through SFO, then to Denver. We had all of the symptoms, got them at exactly the same time, but it wasn't as discussed in the media as it is today. Then we both found out we had the immunity, probably from that illness. We don't know how long the immunity lasts.

A second reason I am not afraid of the virus, I have faith. Faith is something you can acquire, too. It's a door that you open to free yourself from earthly fears.

A third reason, I believe in science and the brilliant people who developed this vaccine. I am wearing a mask, too.

What I do not understand is why my friends who are in their 70's and have had both doses of the vaccine and still have to get the Covid test before traveling to Oahu, and now from Oahu to Maui. That I do not get. That is not following the science.
The CDC is working on travel guidelines now for those with vaccines. I rather suspect part of the issue is that we have such a small percentage who are fully vaccinated that setting up an infrastructure of any kind costs money and right now the pay back is small. I'd love be to not have to drive 2 1/2 hours each way to my nearest Trusted Partner before my trip to Hawaii at the end of April, because it's just plain old annoying, but it's worth it to get back to my favorite place on earth. I'd rather suspect by summer there will be an app of some sort to show you e been vaccinated.
 

DannyTS

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The CDC is working on travel guidelines now for those with vaccines. I rather suspect part of the issue is that we have such a small percentage who are fully vaccinated that setting up an infrastructure of any kind costs money and right now the pay back is small. I'd love be to not have to drive 2 1/2 hours each way to my nearest Trusted Partner before my trip to Hawaii at the end of April, because it's just plain old annoying, but it's worth it to get back to my favorite place on earth. I'd rather suspect by summer there will be an app of some sort to show you e been vaccinated.
I have read that the plane ticket bookings for those above 70 have gone up quite a bit lately, most likely because of the vaccine. In their case because they do not work they may also not be much impacted by quarantines.
 

rickandcindy23

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We are on Maui for another 3 weeks. We have been here for 3 weeks. Halfway through our stay. A lot of inventory on II that allowed us to be here. We don't stay at the fancy places, mostly Soleil-managed resorts: Hono Koa, where we own 3 weeks oceanfront, Kahana Beach and Sands of Kahana. Those are the favorites for us. We love Maui. Too bad it costs $2,050 each week for our Hono Koa oceanfront units, but hey, 2 bed, 2 bath, washer/dryer, great kitchen, and a lanai that is 40 feet to the water.
 

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Superchief

Finally, you have mentioned that you have had your first vaccine shot. That raises an interesting question yet to be discussed on TUG. Should there be different rules for those vaccinated and those not. (I would agree, for example, that six feet in a gym is fine if you have been vaccinated. non-vaccinated- uhh.) Should there be two sections to restaurants, one for the smokers and one for the non-smokers? (Substitute "vaccinated" for "smokers.") Etc. Maybe this should become a new discussion thread.

Brazil
I agree that those who have been vaccinated (with two week delay) shouldn't have to wear masks if they have proof of vaccination. This probably isn't practical in many situations, but can easily be done for fitness clubs, airport clubs, Amtrak, airlines, and other situations where there are memberships for which vaccine verification can easily be available through profile records. If I can show verification to Planet Fitness, it can be added to my profile and be available every time I check in at a club. Airline, hotel, and other 'loyalty' memberships can do the same thing.

The priority for this type of program should focus on situations where masks are worn for an extended period of time or when oxygen intake is most important. Information would need to be posted explaining this policy or the 'mask police' will get very upset when some people aren't wearing masks
 

Monykalyn

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Why are those of you who are "not afraid of the virus" planning to get the vaccine? Genuinely curious. Are you planning to wait until others that may not feel the way you do get vaccinated first?
Haven't been afraid of virus from start. You look at breakdown of absolute risk with age, health etc and the majority of peoples risk of actually dying from covid is small. The majority of deaths have been in people with comorbities and age. Still awful, but not unexpected actually-and what may be reasonably expected if an especially virulent flu virus happens too. I had to get the vax to get back into my buildings-still with the mask inside the buildings (LTC) but residents are now fully vaccinated (nearly 100% among residents, ~60% among staff-but remember many staff have already had/recovered as well) and getting REALLY restless that not much has changed. They do NOT have the time to "be patient" or "wait a few more months". Many if not most would got the vax to return to being able to freely visit family, eat in a group etc; by same token many would have preferred to have the choice THEMSELVES of whether they wanted to risk covid vs that choice taken away and locked away a year. Up until the vaccine was pretty firmly established that it was coming in late December most of my buildings were gearing up for how they were going to handle Holiday visits-because most residents were sick and tired of being locked up for "their own good" and extremely ready to take the risk (the families were more hesitant but recognized as well the harm on mental health that was happening)
A lot of those that are not afraid of the flu, including myself, get the flu vaccine. Can you define "not afraid of the virus"?
I get flu vax every year too
I've seen no real evidence that double masking provides additional safety that justifies the reduced ability to get oxygen. Actually, I still haven't found any scientific study with test and control groups that prove wearing a mask reduces transmission, but intuitively it makes sense and is manageable.
Most of the studies on mask efficacy are look back meta analysis (can be hugely flawed) or done on dummies in a lab with models trying to replicate real world.
This was closest I could find-and interestingly - for those with low viral load-masks didn't do much-and even with higher load it was still theorized that transmission in close contact took longer periods of time. And that is the coughing group. And viral presence still wasn't super high, although significant difference between masked/unmasked. I wonder about blocking the coughing/sneezing with tissue or elbow etc would provide nearly same effect? This was also in enclosed space, so what happens outside or with good ventilation? And most of the mask studies for covid relied on the (possibly-maybe??) false assumption that asymptomatic transmission was way way higher than may actually be occurring. It does start to prove the absolute ridiculousness of closing outdoor spaces and requiring masks when out of doors even when around other people (*gasp).
Should there be two sections to restaurants, one for the smokers and one for the non-smokers?
No. Full stop. Just like I don't think only vaccinated people should be allowed to fly, or cruise, or BREATHE for goodness sakes.
 
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