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Letting timeshare foreclose

suzannesimon

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I don’t feel so sorry for the timeshare companies. They can foreclose, get the week back and resell it without actually having to match another buyer’s price. I’m waiting for a law that requires them to go into detailed verbal and written disclosures that you will own the property forever along with ever-increasing fees and you may not be able to sell it. Also, if they or the Association have to foreclose, it will negatively effect your credit rating. When that happens, I will have a lot more respect for the industry.
 

OldGuy

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I don’t feel so sorry for the timeshare companies. They can foreclose, get the week back and resell it without actually having to match another buyer’s price. I’m waiting for a law that requires them to go into detailed verbal and written disclosures that you will own the property forever along with ever-increasing fees and you may not be able to sell it. Also, if they or the Association have to foreclose, it will negatively effect your credit rating. When that happens, I will have a lot more respect for the industry.
Can you imagine how hard it will be for that to happen to an inherently unethical industry?

But, your spot-on, honest, common-sense, straight-forward assessment is a breath of fresh air.
 

Gypsy65

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It is ethics. Period
Not legal obligatory advice
We all have the right to be deadbeats.
And many live that way their entire lives but to buy and not fulfill your obligations is just that. Deadbeat.
Happens in child support judgments. Home buying. Cars etc

Not at all saying stuff doesn’t happen. It does.
I personally have made horrible decisions but never once did I walk in and say in my head or other
“ if it doesn’t work, or when I’m done, I will just walk away”
That my friend is a burden on us all

I buy and sell a lot of vehicles and one dealer I have used said their 3 worst customers and ones they have a hard time financing are real estate agents. Lawyers. And doctors

I asked why
He said they never pay

This is not against anyone here. Just a comment from a few years ago from a well know dealer
 

R.J.C.

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@New Englander I am an attorney. One won’t help you that much in getting rid of your TS. You might as well let the TS foreclose, if you aren’t buying anything with credit for the next seven years.
I assume you mean opening new lines of credit in the next 7 years. A ding on your credit report wouldn't (shouldn't) affect any credit you already have.
 

R.J.C.

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So...

I.
I purchased a car about 15 years ago. It never really did everything the sales guy said it would. But I loved it nonetheless

It was shiny and new and I fell in love with the shine. That leather!! Power windows!! Are you kidding me?
Couldn’t wait to tell and show it off to my friends!! I was the man on the block for sure!!

Well, nowadays it doesn’t do quite what it used to. Starts a little harder. Shakes. Not much. Just a bit
Paint? Now that’s a problem. The sun has faded it pretty badly and the leather? Yep!! Pulling at the seams

The OL girl still got me to work and gave me many satisfying days cruising the town

I’m tired of it. The insurance is getting to not be worth it. The juice just isn’t worth the squeeze anymore and that brings me to my question

How can I get the selling dealer to take this back without affecting my credit or any financial woes?

I mean. I’m done with it and don’t want it anymore
I know I bought it but how is that my problem?

Any help??
Considering maint fees paid annually are supposed to be used to keep your TS shiny and new like the first day you bought it, the comparisons really aren't the same.
 

R.J.C.

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I think the lender’s response was that she had defaulted on her timeshare , “but we don’t worry too much about that”. I also heard a property manager say the same thing on a rental application once. The attitude was they thought all timeshare developers were crooks so they didn’t blame anyone for defaulting. Of course, this was a couple years before FICO scores, but if you have excellent credit and you default and it only goes down 50 points, that’s Not going to cause you a lot of problems. I was always told FICO scores are determined by the % of credit you use. If you have credit cards and lines of credit available of $400,000 and only owe $20,000, you’ll have a high score. They say you’ll nick your score, though, if you close your unused accounts because the available credit will be reduced and your % of the total owed will go up.
According to Clark Howard, credit usage accounts for about 30% of a person's credit score. Credit age, # of lines of credit, dings on credit, etc account for the other 70% of the FICO score. To get the best FICO from credit usage you want to have less than 5% of your credit used at any one time.
 

OldGuy

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According to Clark Howard, credit usage accounts for about 30% of a person's credit score. Credit age, # of lines of credit, dings on credit, etc account for the other 70% of the FICO score. To get the best FICO from credit usage you want to have less than 5% of your credit used at any one time.
Ours had been 806 since January. 809 from last September to January. (We have a lot of December expenses) 806 before that.

The past month it went to 809.

We had not changed the amount of credit used relative to our line, just paid off our monthly charges.

We recently deeded back the last of our unwanted timeshares.

A new $50,000 went into our bank account.

The two factors that our report seems to be indicating led to the increase is that we have been using that type of credit before and that we do not have or have not recently opened additional lines of credit.
 

chapjim

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Ours had been 806 since January. 809 from last September to January. (We have a lot of December expenses) 806 before that.

The past month it went to 809.

We had not changed the amount of credit used relative to our line, just paid off our monthly charges.

We recently deeded back the last of our unwanted timeshares.

A new $50,000 went into our bank account.

The two factors that our report seems to be indicating led to the increase is that we have been using that type of credit before and that we do not have or have not recently opened additional lines of credit.
I would not consider 806 to 809 and back to be changes of significance.
 

Gypsy65

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Considering maint fees paid annually are supposed to be used to keep your TS shiny and new like the first day you bought it, the comparisons really aren't the same.

Maybe that’s the case with TS purchased by some waaay back when and who now have old outdated units. Ones that were built simply for a larger place to stay besides a motel

But the places we stay at are pretty amazing and I see it the other way, although I don’t like MF’s going up I also know I could not have a vacation home maintained with the grounds landscapes etc for any less
 
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ColonelFur

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Sorry for the long post, but here our current scenario:

Decided to stop paying MF and TS loan back in Feb 2019. Got tired of never being able to use it or RCI, endless fees, TS company bait and switching us at sale, etc. Attempted to use it with hotel points transfer also. But that was a waste. So, here we are:

TS purchased for - $20,000; Value based on research - <$2,000
TS Loan amount owed - $16,000
MF per year - $1,200 and climbing. Amt owed on MF fees now - $1,809
Wrote letter after TS Company sent foreclosure letter asking for Deedback in Lieu with no summary judgement based on fraudulent and unethical behavior
Received letter from TS company
They say "we...are confident we have complied with the applicable laws of the states of...blah, blah, blah.
However, we are willing to accept a Warranty Deed and transfer of title (back to them) for...
Past due MF - $1,809 and a portion of the balance of loan = $7,401 (???)
So, what do I do? See below.

1. Tell them to foreclose on it. Credit is 840 and TS Loan has never been listed on either credit report.
2. Write back and reiterate I am paying nothing and reiterate their unethical practices and threaten to send requests to BBB, and Attorneys General. Which probably means they will foreclose.
3. Write them back and try to negotiate lower pay off. ie. MF and just enough to pay closing costs = $3,300
4. Accept their proposal and make "payment arrangements" for the $9,200, which to me means $500/mo to get this albatross gone.
5. Recommendations...

Thanks for the help!
 

Free2Roam

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Sorry for the long post, but here our current scenario:

Decided to stop paying MF and TS loan back in Feb 2019. Got tired of never being able to use it or RCI, endless fees, TS company bait and switching us at sale, etc. Attempted to use it with hotel points transfer also. But that was a waste. So, here we are:

TS purchased for - $20,000; Value based on research - <$2,000
TS Loan amount owed - $16,000
MF per year - $1,200 and climbing. Amt owed on MF fees now - $1,809
Wrote letter after TS Company sent foreclosure letter asking for Deedback in Lieu with no summary judgement based on fraudulent and unethical behavior
Received letter from TS company
They say "we...are confident we have complied with the applicable laws of the states of...blah, blah, blah.
However, we are willing to accept a Warranty Deed and transfer of title (back to them) for...
Past due MF - $1,809 and a portion of the balance of loan = $7,401 (???)
So, what do I do? See below.

1. Tell them to foreclose on it. Credit is 840 and TS Loan has never been listed on either credit report.
2. Write back and reiterate I am paying nothing and reiterate their unethical practices and threaten to send requests to BBB, and Attorneys General. Which probably means they will foreclose.
3. Write them back and try to negotiate lower pay off. ie. MF and just enough to pay closing costs = $3,300
4. Accept their proposal and make "payment arrangements" for the $9,200, which to me means $500/mo to get this albatross gone.
5. Recommendations...

Thanks for the help!
No recommendations from me, just a warning that even though the TS loan isn't on your credit report now, they might add it after it becomes delinquent. However, if folks are reporting a 50 point drop in credit score, seems like you'll be fine in that area. High 700s is still considered a good score.
 

ColonelFur

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My worst scenario risk is they foreclose and get a judgement for the balance of the loan and the delinquent MFs. Have not been able to find anyone experiencing this though.
 

WVBaker

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It is ethics. Period
Not legal obligatory advice
We all have the right to be deadbeats.
And many live that way their entire lives but to buy and not fulfill your obligations is just that. Deadbeat.
Happens in child support judgments. Home buying. Cars etc
It seems the term "ethics" has been lost, as you can see.

We each must determine how we're going to lead our lives. Do we take on obligations and then one day wake up and say you know, I simply don't want that anymore so, toss it away. Why should I pay for that obligation even though I agreed to pay for it? It's not that I can't, but I simply don't want to, end of story.

Let each choose how they wish to lead their lives. Blowing off some commitment, some agreement, just to be doing so, speaks volumes. The main issue here is clearly how can one do this without causing harm to one's accountableness.
 

Gypsy65

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It seems the term "ethics" has been lost, as you can see.

We each must determine how we're going to lead our lives. Do we take on obligations and then one day wake up and say you know, I simply don't want that anymore so, toss it away. Why should I pay for that obligation even though I agreed to pay for it? It's not that I can't, but I simply don't want to, end of story.

Let each choose how they wish to lead their lives. Blowing off some commitment, some agreement, just to be doing so, speaks volumes. The main issue here is clearly how can one do this without causing harm to one's accountableness.
I agree with that post
But some posts go sideways. Mine included
Some lean heavily towards the argument that there should be no backlash to their decision
That’s my point.
Give back all you want but if they take your home in the meantime then that’s the cause and affect
 

R.J.C.

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Ours had been 806 since January. 809 from last September to January. (We have a lot of December expenses) 806 before that.

The past month it went to 809.

We had not changed the amount of credit used relative to our line, just paid off our monthly charges.

We recently deeded back the last of our unwanted timeshares.

A new $50,000 went into our bank account.

The two factors that our report seems to be indicating led to the increase is that we have been using that type of credit before and that we do not have or have not recently opened additional lines of credit.
Money in the bank (or lack of it) has no effect on one's credit rating. I would suggest joining a website like Credit Karma or Credit Sesame (both free to use) and one can better track what is going on with their credit score and it will give tips on how to improve it (though, as Clark says, anything over 760 is just bragging rights...LOL).
 

R.J.C.

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Sorry for the long post, but here our current scenario:

Decided to stop paying MF and TS loan back in Feb 2019. Got tired of never being able to use it or RCI, endless fees, TS company bait and switching us at sale, etc. Attempted to use it with hotel points transfer also. But that was a waste. So, here we are:

TS purchased for - $20,000; Value based on research - <$2,000
TS Loan amount owed - $16,000
MF per year - $1,200 and climbing. Amt owed on MF fees now - $1,809
Wrote letter after TS Company sent foreclosure letter asking for Deedback in Lieu with no summary judgement based on fraudulent and unethical behavior
Received letter from TS company
They say "we...are confident we have complied with the applicable laws of the states of...blah, blah, blah.
However, we are willing to accept a Warranty Deed and transfer of title (back to them) for...
Past due MF - $1,809 and a portion of the balance of loan = $7,401 (???)
So, what do I do? See below.

1. Tell them to foreclose on it. Credit is 840 and TS Loan has never been listed on either credit report.
2. Write back and reiterate I am paying nothing and reiterate their unethical practices and threaten to send requests to BBB, and Attorneys General. Which probably means they will foreclose.
3. Write them back and try to negotiate lower pay off. ie. MF and just enough to pay closing costs = $3,300
4. Accept their proposal and make "payment arrangements" for the $9,200, which to me means $500/mo to get this albatross gone.
5. Recommendations...

Thanks for the help!
Option 5 - Ignore them (meaning have no further contact with them). You are already in arrears it sounds like so things can't get any worse really. With a score of 840 it would be doubtful that a ding to your credit (if it happened) would move you out of the "Excellent Credit" score range.
 

R.J.C.

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I agree with that post
But some posts go sideways. Mine included
Some lean heavily towards the argument that there should be no backlash to their decision
That’s my point.
Give back all you want but if they take your home in the meantime then that’s the cause and affect
Obviously it depends on what state one lives in but in most states, a home and other personnel effects can't be taken. Also, there is no "Debtors Prison" anymore so one doesn't have to worry about being jailed. I think the worst that can legally be done is that a judgement could be used to place a lien on one's house so if they ever sold it, the timeshare would get the amount of the judgement.
 

WVBaker

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Obviously it depends on what state one lives in but in most states, a home and other personnel effects can't be taken. Also, there is no "Debtors Prison" anymore so one doesn't have to worry about being jailed. I think the worst that can legally be done is that a judgement could be used to place a lien on one's house so if they ever sold it, the timeshare would get the amount of the judgement.
Advice concerning anyone's credit history is always easy when it's, well, someone else.

I will agree with one point however. In fact there are no "Debtors Prisons", at least in the truest definition of the term. Of course many find the lack of purchasing ability to be a form of "Debtors Prison".

Truth be told, there is not one person with the foresight to predict what will happen when someone defaults on a loan. With many possibilities and the various credit reporting agencies, that simply can't be done. Will you're score drop 10 points? Will you're score drop 20 points? Will you're score drop 50 points? it simply can't be predicted with any accuracy whatsoever. It is very easy to tell someone else, hey don't worry, you'll be fine. Need you worry about some sort of legal action? Perhaps yes or perhaps no. I'm not willing to risk that however, being that it's someone else, hey, give it shot and see what happens. After all, that's why we have lawyers.

I for one, would never want any type of "lien" on my home. I suppose many of us simply don't need that or want that discreditation.

Perhaps financial advice is best left to those who understand the field and have taken time to get to know the individual and their situation. ;)
 

Gypsy65

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Obviously it depends on what state one lives in but in most states, a home and other personnel effects can't be taken. Also, there is no "Debtors Prison" anymore so one doesn't have to worry about being jailed. I think the worst that can legally be done is that a judgement could be used to place a lien on one's house so if they ever sold it, the timeshare would get the amount of the judgement.
If a judgement is placed and eventually paid on sale of the home. Would the TS then be given back to the default buyer?

How does that work. They’re paid but late
Or could they only claim any losses from the repo to sale price which I’m sure inflated lawyer fees would secure full payment
 

Fredflintstone

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It was a customer service rep at Diamond.
No surprise. My contact at Diamond said it’s cheaper to get the deed back even through foreclosure and resell then build new facilities and sell. I suppose they see recycling after collecting a huge retail price as profitable.

Also given most of the states have non judicial foreclosures, the costs are quite reasonable and turn around is fast.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

Fredflintstone

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I said it elsewhere, and I know horrible double-posting is, but since it applies here . . .

Some people here feel that the $1.5 million or so dissatisfied timeshare owners absolutely have to keep paying the maintenance fees, regardless, because they signed a contract.

But, anyone "sign a contract" promising to pay maintenance fees for a week you bought resale?

The Association may have to legal right to withhold the use of a week that the MF has not been paid for, but they don't have a contract to enforce the payment.

So, can you actually just walk away from a resale week?

Just sayin'
In many ways you are right IF the purchase you signed from resale didn’t specify that you agree to assume the contract. The resort also needs the purchase contract you signed to prove you agreed to assume. I know resorts that give their ok once the transfer fee is paid and forget about the purchase contract. That loophole is closing as resorts are getting smarter after being spanked.

I had a case when I had a TS no one wanted so I wrote them and told them there was no signed purchase contract (which there wasn’t on the resale) and hence the transfer violated state law. They quickly wrote me back and gave me a free deed back.


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OldGuy

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I hate Credit Karma . . . and I gave it a fair chance.
 

jabberwocky

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According to Clark Howard, credit usage accounts for about 30% of a person's credit score. Credit age, # of lines of credit, dings on credit, etc account for the other 70% of the FICO score. To get the best FICO from credit usage you want to have less than 5% of your credit used at any one time.
It’s much more complicated than if I do X the score will go down by Y points. They look at the interaction of factors, your credit mix (instalment loans, mortgages, credit cards, lines of credit etc). The score is used to map into the likelihood of you defaulting in the future.

We’re currently applying for a mortgage with a new lender so I got a peek at our “real” FICO with the bank. We’re currently sitting at 15% credit usage and I’m currently an 899 FICO so I’m not sure that 5% is somehow “optimal” (our personal banker said she had never seen one that high!) I imagine that if we had a single new non-payment on our record it would be a much larger hit than for someone with a 720 score for example.
 
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