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Legacy/Trust points MF's

suenmike32

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As an enrolled Legacy Weeks owner who is considering purchasing 1500 Trust points....I have a couple of questions.
If I purchase 1500 trust points, is the .41 per point MF always paid separately
from my legacy weeks MF?
In other words are they paid separately, or are they ever combined?

If I became a Trust point owner and did not have enough "trust points" for a particular stay...will Marriott convert Legacy points to Trust points to attain that stay? and how will that impact my Legacy weeks MF's.
I apologize if this has been asked before.
Mike
 

SueDonJ

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As an enrolled Legacy Weeks owner who is considering purchasing 1500 Trust points....I have a couple of questions.
If I purchase 1500 trust points, is the .41 per point MF always paid separately
from my legacy weeks MF?
In other words are they paid separately, or are they ever combined?

They'll always be separate. Your Week's MF will continue to be determined the exact same way they've always been, by the Operating Budget of the resort. Your Trust Points MF are determined based on the number of points you've purchased and the MF per point.

If I became a Trust point owner and did not have enough "trust points" for a particular stay...will Marriott convert Legacy points to Trust points to attain that stay? and how will that impact my Legacy weeks MF's.
I apologize if this has been asked before.
Mike

Legacy points cannot ever be converted to Trust Points, so the MF of your Week is not affected by whether or not you convert your enrolled Week to Points for use in the DC Exchange Company.

Legacy and Trust Points cannot be combined to reserve a single night's stay, and, Legacy and Trust Points cannot be combined to reserve an interval that's only available in the Trust Inventory. However, Trust inventory can be (and consistently has been) deposited by Marriott into the DC Exchange Company where it can be reserved using a combination of Trust and Legacy Points.

Enrolling a Week in the DC does not mean that you have permanently changed the Week to Legacy Points. All it means is that you've given yourself another usage option - you can elect annually to convert it to Points for use in the DC Exchange Company. Such an election one year does not constitute a permanent change from a Week to Points, and does not have any affect on the MF of that Week.
 
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suenmike32

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Susan,
Thank you very much for your input. Our 90 minute presentation turned into 2 1/2 hours.
Although I felt that we were not pressured too much....there were some inconsistencies with what I've read here on TUG.
If I can indulge you once more...what is the difference between Legacy points and Reward Points
Thanks again.
Mike
 

NJMOM2

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Susan,
If I can indulge you once more...what is the difference between Legacy points and Reward Points
Thanks again.
Mike

Legacy points are the Destination Club points weeks owner can get if they exchange thier week in the new MVCI DC Exchange points program.

Reward Points are the point for use in the Marriott Hotel's frequent traveler program.
 

SueDonJ

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Susan,
Thank you very much for your input. Our 90 minute presentation turned into 2 1/2 hours.
Although I felt that we were not pressured too much....there were some inconsistencies with what I've read here on TUG.
If I can indulge you once more...what is the difference between Legacy points and Reward Points
Thanks again.
Mike

(I really hope this isn't too much but I don't know how to explain it without the details.)

Prior to the advent of Marriott's new Destination Club program, most Marriott timeshare Weeks which were purchased direct from Marriott could be exchanged for a certain amount of Marriott Rewards Points. Since the advent of the DC, owners who enroll their existing Week(s) in the DC can also exchange their Week(s) for the allotted amount of Legacy Points. The two programs and two types of points are completely separate, and the number of Legacy Points that an enrolled Week may be allotted has absolutely nothing to do with the number of Marriott Rewards Points for which the same Week may be exchanged.

Marriott Rewards is Marriott's customer loyalty program; MR Points are the currency in that program. They can be earned through converting certain eligible Marriott timeshare Weeks to MR Points, through hotel stays, through use of the Chase Marriott VISA card, through partner programs, etc. They can be spent on a number of travel options at Marriott hotels and resorts as well as for items in the Marriott Rewards catalog. They can also be converted to airline miles. Check out marriottrewards.com for all the details.

Legacy Points is the term that we here on TUG coined (and it seems several Marriott reps have adopted) to refer to the Destination Club Points that are allotted when a Marriott timeshare owner converts a Week that has been enrolled in the DC to any DC usage.

To flesh things out, and hopefully not confuse you further, Trust Points are the DC points that are purchased from Marriott (as opposed to the Legacy Points.) A Marriott timeshare Week may be eligible to be exchanged for MR Points. A Marriott timeshare Week that is enrolled in the DC may be exchanged for Legacy Points OR MR Points. Legacy Points cannot be exchanged for MR Points. Trust Points can be exchanged for MR Points.
 

TheTimeTraveler

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(I really hope this isn't too much but I don't know how to explain it without the details.)

Prior to the advent of Marriott's new Destination Club program, most Marriott timeshare Weeks which were purchased direct from Marriott could be exchanged for a certain amount of Marriott Rewards Points. Since the advent of the DC, owners who enroll their existing Week(s) in the DC can also exchange their Week(s) for the allotted amount of Legacy Points. The two programs and two types of points are completely separate, and the number of Legacy Points that an enrolled Week may be allotted has absolutely nothing to do with the number of Marriott Rewards Points for which the same Week may be exchanged.

Marriott Rewards is Marriott's customer loyalty program; MR Points are the currency in that program. They can be earned through converting certain eligible Marriott timeshare Weeks to MR Points, through hotel stays, through use of the Chase Marriott VISA card, through partner programs, etc. They can be spent on a number of travel options at Marriott hotels and resorts as well as for items in the Marriott Rewards catalog. They can also be converted to airline miles. Check out marriottrewards.com for all the details.

Legacy Points is the term that we here on TUG coined (and it seems several Marriott reps have adopted) to refer to the Destination Club Points that are allotted when a Marriott timeshare owner converts a Week that has been enrolled in the DC to any DC usage.

To flesh things out, and hopefully not confuse you further, Trust Points are the DC points that are purchased from Marriott (as opposed to the Legacy Points.) A Marriott timeshare Week may be eligible to be exchanged for MR Points. A Marriott timeshare Week that is enrolled in the DC may be exchanged for Legacy Points OR MR Points. Legacy Points cannot be exchanged for MR Points. Trust Points can be exchanged for MR Points.




Nice job Susan! You explained it very well for any novice to understand:hi:



.
 

Whirl

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I should probably know this, as much discussion as there had been, and I am really not new to these discussions. However, what is the conversion rate/formula for DC points to MR points?

Thanks.
 

dioxide45

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I should probably know this, as much discussion as there had been, and I am really not new to these discussions. However, what is the conversion rate/formula for DC points to MR points?

Thanks.

I think it is 8 MR Points per 1 DC Point. Only trust owners can convert DC points to MR points. The percent of DC points that one can convert is based on status; Standard Owner 50%, Premier Owner 65%, and 75% for a Premier Plus Owner.
 

suenmike32

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Thanks again to all that replied. Between your input and Dave M's sticky notes at the top of the Marriott section, I think I've got a handle on this (at least enough of a handle to refuse to purchase of the 1000 trust points pitched during our presentation)
We spent 2 1/2 hours at Lakeshore Reserve. One of the statements that the s/m made, was that if we purchased 1500 trust points (later lowered to 1000 pts) we could use our trust points to book into Marriott's premier resorts, and if we didn't have enough trust points, some of our legacy points could be used (converted).
I never really felt that that was totally true. There were also a number of things "alluded too" but would not be put in writing.

I'm very happy with the unit purchases that I have, but wanted to remain at the top level within the Marriott system. I felt that that would necessitate the purchase of trust points. In reality 1000 trust points don't get you very far, based on our lifestyle and the way we travel. If we took 1,2, or 3 day trips...it might be feasible. However we like to go away for weeks at a time. At this point I'm very happy to have saved $11,000.00.
I don't think the "Trust Point system" would work for us without a substantial investment. At this stage...I'm not ready for that.
Thanks again
Mike
 

siberiavol

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I think you made a good decision. I don't see how anyone makes the numbers work out buying trust points when resale and rental prices prices are so low.

I think the vast majority of TUG members have not bought trust points because they see cheaper alternatives which can accomplish the same thing.
 

Whirl

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I think it is 8 MR Points per 1 DC Point. Only trust owners can convert DC points to MR points. The percent of DC points that one can convert is based on status; Standard Owner 50%, Premier Owner 65%, and 75% for a Premier Plus Owner.

A belated thanks. I missed your detailed reply, but I was not aware of the conversion details. It makes sense, but I guess I had not fully processed that as a legacy owner you cant convert DC to MR, since your week already has a MR value assigned to it to start off with.
 

Whirl

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I think it is 8 MR Points per 1 DC Point. Only trust owners can convert DC points to MR points. The percent of DC points that one can convert is based on status; Standard Owner 50%, Premier Owner 65%, and 75% for a Premier Plus Owner.

A belated thanks. I missed your detailed reply, but I was not aware of the conversion details. It makes sense, but I guess I had not fully processed that as a legacy owner you cant convert DC to MR, since your week already has a MR value assigned to it to start off with.
 

saturn28

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Thanks again to all that replied. Between your input and Dave M's sticky notes at the top of the Marriott section, I think I've got a handle on this (at least enough of a handle to refuse to purchase of the 1000 trust points pitched during our presentation)
We spent 2 1/2 hours at Lakeshore Reserve. One of the statements that the s/m made, was that if we purchased 1500 trust points (later lowered to 1000 pts) we could use our trust points to book into Marriott's premier resorts, and if we didn't have enough trust points, some of our legacy points could be used (converted).
I never really felt that that was totally true. There were also a number of things "alluded too" but would not be put in writing.

I'm very happy with the unit purchases that I have, but wanted to remain at the top level within the Marriott system. I felt that that would necessitate the purchase of trust points. In reality 1000 trust points don't get you very far, based on our lifestyle and the way we travel. If we took 1,2, or 3 day trips...it might be feasible. However we like to go away for weeks at a time. At this point I'm very happy to have saved $11,000.00.
I don't think the "Trust Point system" would work for us without a substantial investment. At this stage...I'm not ready for that.
Thanks again
Mike

I stayed at Marriott Lakeshore Reserve last week and was told the same thing by the salesman. In addition, the manager confirmed that Legacy points could be used or combined with Trust Points to make reservations as long as I purchased a minimum of 1000 Trust Points. They both stated that I would not get access to the 18 new Marriott Vacation Club resorts that they plan on openning in the next 2 years without buying Legacy Points. They said this was something new that Marriott Vacations Worldwide has added.
 
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dougp26364

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They'll always be separate. Your Week's MF will continue to be determined the exact same way they've always been, by the Operating Budget of the resort. Your Trust Points MF are determined based on the number of points you've purchased and the MF per point.



Legacy points cannot ever be converted to Trust Points, so the MF of your Week is not affected by whether or not you convert your enrolled Week to Points for use in the DC Exchange Company.

Legacy and Trust Points cannot be combined to reserve a single night's stay, and, Legacy and Trust Points cannot be combined to reserve an interval that's only available in the Trust Inventory. However, Trust inventory can be (and consistently has been) deposited by Marriott into the DC Exchange Company where it can be reserved using a combination of Trust and Legacy Points.

Enrolling a Week in the DC does not mean that you have permanently changed the Week to Legacy Points. All it means is that you've given yourself another usage option - you can elect annually to convert it to Points for use in the DC Exchange Company. Such an election one year does not constitute a permanent change from a Week to Points, and does not have any affect on the MF of that Week.

Legacy points can't be converted to trust points.........for now. I wouldn't go so far as to say the can't ever be converted. At some point, I look for Marriott to wake up to the fact that, if they control the trust, they will always control the resorts where they have enough trust owners. Once you have enough owners enrolled as trust owners, the trust manager (Marriott) votes the block of trust interest. At that point you'd better enjoy the ride because Marriott will be driving; owners will just be along for the ride.

I think Marriott will milk the joiner fee for legacy weeks as long as it can. Once it thinks it has owners hooked on using points, they'll switch gears and start offering full conversion of weeks into trust interests. After that happens it will be all over but the crying if owners want to gain control of their resorts and have a say in which direction the resort will go.

Think about the fights Marriott has had with Streamside owners and a couple of resorts on HHI which are no longer under the Marriott brand or management. Think about the fight Beachplace Towers recently had over unit refurbishment. Once Marriott has owners hooked on points and if they can get enough to convert legacy weeks into trust interests (it doesn't take a majority to have control. Many owners don't vote and when they do, don't vote as a block), there will be NO say in how the resorts are run or how money is spent. Marriott will dictate the expenses, the costs, the quality et.....

Trust me, it will eventually happen (pun intended).

This conversion will be very attractive to owners who have purchased small trust point packages. It's a reason for keeping the point packages small now. Get people hooked, then give them a way to increase their trust points and flexiblity. Those small trust point package buyers have almost guarenteed they'll be converting their legacy weeks into DC points to gain access through the points based reservations system. It's a short walk to get them to committ to full trust ownership with all points, all the time and the promise of easier access into trust inventory.
 
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m61376

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I stayed at Marriott Lakeshore Reserve last week and was told the same thing by the salesman. In addition, the manager confirmed that Legacy points could be used or combined with Trust Points to make reservations as long as I purchased a minimum of 1000 Trust Points. They both stated that I would not get access to the 18 new Marriott Vacation Club resorts that they plan on openning in the next 2 years without buying Legacy Points. They said this was something new that Marriott Vacations Worldwide has added.

Is it possible- of course, but I'd be surprised to see 18 new resorts in the next decade, let alone the next two years. The other issue is that I foresee Marriott needing legacy inventory to fulfill the demands of trust point owners for years and years, which means that Marriott must place trust inventory into the exchange pool. So personally I think this is a lot of sales-speak.

I wonder what their tune would have been had you asked for a statement in writing, with the ability to cancel if it didn't come to fruition. :)

As for legacy and trust points being combined to make a reservation- technically, they can be. The issue is that there has to be inventory in both pools that match up (which more frequently than not there is) and you have 2 separate payments pools, so that if you have 3500 points to use, for example, with 2500 legacy and 1000 trust, even if the reservation costs a total of 3500 points you may be short in one pool and have excess in the other, since you cannot combine points form both pools for a single night (at least at this point in time). Thus, logistically it is hard to keep track of all the points and where they are coming from, and when you make your reservations you need to be sure that they don't simply borrow from the next year from one pool or another to make the reservation.
 

dougp26364

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Is it possible- of course, but I'd be surprised to see 18 new resorts in the next decade, let alone the next two years. The other issue is that I foresee Marriott needing legacy inventory to fulfill the demands of trust point owners for years and years, which means that Marriott must place trust inventory into the exchange pool. So personally I think this is a lot of sales-speak.

I wonder what their tune would have been had you asked for a statement in writing, with the ability to cancel if it didn't come to fruition. :)

As for legacy and trust points being combined to make a reservation- technically, they can be. The issue is that there has to be inventory in both pools that match up (which more frequently than not there is) and you have 2 separate payments pools, so that if you have 3500 points to use, for example, with 2500 legacy and 1000 trust, even if the reservation costs a total of 3500 points you may be short in one pool and have excess in the other, since you cannot combine points form both pools for a single night (at least at this point in time). Thus, logistically it is hard to keep track of all the points and where they are coming from, and when you make your reservations you need to be sure that they don't simply borrow from the next year from one pool or another to make the reservation.

Considering Marriott is having difficulty completing the three resorts I can think of of hand (Crystal Shores, Oceana Palm with is in it's completion stages and Grand Chateau), I don't see them building 18 new resorts.

I can see them buying and renovating 18 new resorts in the next few years. Right now, buying failing or trouble resorts seems to be the thing. HGVC and DRI both are adding new resorts through the buy and refurbish model. HVC recently has added ne resorts in Carlsbad CA, Myrtle Beach SC, a resort in Honolulu in the Beachwalk area and Planet Hollywood Towers in Las Vegas. DRI has been busy adding troubled resorts or resort groups to it's portfolio. This looks like the next big thing in timeshare expansion for those healthy enough to buy out the weaker resorts or resort chains. Perhaps Marriott thinks it's close enough to closing a deal with a troubled resort group that the rumor is worth the risk.
 
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suenmike32

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As the original poster, I just want to say that I'm so very very disappointed in the changes that Marriott has initiated, (regarding the DC program).
I'm also disappointed in the way the program is projected and sold by the sales force.
I always felt as though I got great deals (resale), thanks to TUG...but if I had to do all over again....Also, I would never have jumped in like I did.
I would never recommend to family or friends to jump on the Marriott bandwagon.:(
Mike
 

Whirl

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As the original poster, I just want to say that I'm so very very disappointed in the changes that Marriott has initiated, (regarding the DC program).
I'm also disappointed in the way the program is projected and sold by the sales force.
I always felt as though I got great deals (resale), thanks to TUG...but if I had to do all over again....Also, I would never have jumped in like I did.
I would never recommend to family or friends to jump on the Marriott bandwagon.:(
Mike

Well, I am not sure I could recommend a new Trust points purchase to friends, either. I really have not spent the time to dot his analysis on my own becuase we certainly do NOT need anymore Marriott interests. I own seven Marriott weeks ( one preconstruction, 1 developer resale and 5 non- marriott resale)...4 of the weeks were eligible for DC and we signed them up.

I have a great combo of both worlds. Recently booked our bonus plus points for joining to get a lovely get away for my husband and myself ( first in 8 years!) and today made our first real DC transaction ( exact dates, view and mid week check-ins that we wanted in two villas)

If your travel needs are similar to ours, I can definitely recommend the DC program based on experience so far. So easy to get exactly what we wanted that was not otherwise available right now through II.

YMMV.
 

Mamianka

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I can see them buying and renovating 18 new resorts in the next few years. Right now, buying failing or trouble resorts seems to be the thing.

Sounds like the salespeople are blowing smoke again. WHEN and IF those new places materialize, then you might see a few of us reconsider, and buy the minimum number of points so that we could COMBINE our new Trust points with our current Legacy points - all will be made one. However, I see Marriott continuing to move the old shells around, and even change the pea inside - they are not about to *give* us anything new in terms of flexibility, unless if it to their advantage. So - what if they add a great number of rehabbed resorts (since they are buying failed ones) - and find that a big percentage of us (enrolled Legacy people, or after-market owners) now cannot get into these, and have no interest in buying more points? Do you think they could SUPPORT all the new places, just on the new Destinations Points Only owners? HAH! So - no hints at what or where these magical new places might be? Anybody know of some other brands with places under water, that might be willing to sell to Big M? This is turning into an episode of Flip This House! - except for the market/economy not supporting it . .
 
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