Least expensive way to tranfer ownership in Florida [merged]

[edwford]

Tranfer of ownership in FLA

I am giving my timeshare to a relative and dont know how to do that legally at the least cost. The unit is with Legacy Vacation Club. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[edwford]

Giving my unit in Florida with Legacy Vacation Club to a relative. What is best way to transfer.

 

[theo]

Giving my unit in Florida with Legacy Vacation Club to a relative. What is best way to transfer.

1. Since there is no escrow of funds required, I'd recommend using Legal Timeshare Transfers of Cleveland, Georgia as your least expenseive option (around $100) for the preparation and recording of a new deed.
You can contact them at readylegal@gmail.com or by phone at (706) 219-2709.

2. Legacy Vacation Club (formerly Celebrity Resorts, before filing for bankruptcy several years ago and then "rebranding" themselves with a new name) will then charge an additional (...larcenous and truly excessive, but nonetheless mandatory) $200 "transfer fee" to internally process the ownership change after a new deed has been recorded. You might want to discuss and decide in advance which of you will be ponying up this unavoidable additional $200, paid to Legacy for them to spend 30 seconds changing the name and address of the future maintenance fee bill recipient in their owner info / billing records.

 

[theo]

inadvertent duplicate post deleted here --- sorry...

 

[C30NY]

I just used Legal Timeshare Transfers and it was very smooth. Cost was around $100 (this wasn't a FL timeshare) but I still recommend them!

 

[Rent_Share]

You could also get a copy of the deed and prepare a new one and record it yourself

 

[theo]

Why bother? Time is money too...

You could also get a copy of the deed and prepare a new one and record it yourself

... thereby spending valuable time and saving a grand total of only about $75 overall, since County recording fees will still be required, no matter who files the deed --- and the larcenous $200 Legacy "transfer fee" will still apply in any event, regardless.

 

[Rent_Share]

It ain't Rocket Science -

 

[theo]

It's not brain surgery either, but that wasn't my point...

It ain't Rocket Science -

Certainly not, but my comment did not mention or address "complexity". My only point was (and remains) just exactly as stated within the title line --- time is money too, particularly if the current owner does not have easy access to the current deed.

 

[Gophesjo]

LEAST expensive

LEAST expensive way - all things considered - is to do it yourself, unless remediation due to error would subsequently be needed...

 

[Rent_Share]

The reccomended discounted closing services would/should include dealing with the HOA. I was assuming the County Fees would be above their $100 fee

 

[theo]

Nope...

The reccomended discounted closing services would/should include dealing with the HOA. I was assuming the County Fees would be above their $100 fee

Deed recording fees in the several FL counties I'm familiar with are generally around $20--$30, including document stamps. Regardless of the precise amount, those FL recording fees (as well as all postage) are indeed included within the Legal Timeshare Transfer charge of $100 (...but they don't do any escrow of $$).

With Celebrity / Legacy, all ownership paperwork (and reservation processes) for all Celebrity / Legacy properties goes through their corporate headquarters offices in Orlando. The individual resort "HOA's" are all basically just BOD's comprised of Celebrity toadies. Individual Celebrity / Legacy resorts have no owner records on site at all beyond the reservation info provided to them weekly or so by the "main office".

As stated initially, Celebrity / Legacy also charges a separate $200 "transfer fee" for "processing" an ownership change, after a new deed is already recorded in a new owners' name. Resort transfer fees are never actually included within any closing company's basic fees anyhow. To do so would be impossible --- there is far too much resort variability, with "transfer fees" ranging anywhere from zero to several hundreds of dollars. A closing company will notify Legacy of an ownership change by providing a copy of the new recorded deed, but Legacy won't actually acknowledge (...or accept any reservation attempts from) the new owner until receiving their additional $200 extortion to complete the "processing" (i.e., change the name and address of the future maintenance fee bill recipient in their computer records --- a 30 second exercise).

To expedite matters, a $200 check can be made payable to Legacy VC and provided to the closing company, so that a copy of the new recorded deed and the the larcenous Legacy "transfer fee" can both arrive at Celebrity offices in Orlando together, thereby ensuring that the "processing" pace accelerates from "glacial" to a more speedy "snail's pace" (it will take Celebrity / Legacy a minimum of 10 weeks in any scenario).

Been there, done all that, in bidding my own fond farewell to Celebrity / Legacy and CEO Jared Meyers.

 

[dosh1965]

Legacy Vacation Club (formerly Celebrity Resorts, before filing for bankruptcy several years ago and then "rebranding" themselves with a new name) will then charge an additional (...larcenous and truly excessive, but nonetheless mandatory) $200 "transfer fee" to internally process the ownership change after a new deed has been recorded. You might want to discuss and decide in advance which of you will be ponying up this unavoidable additional $200, paid to Legacy for them to spend 30 seconds changing the name and address of the future maintenance fee bill recipient in their owner info / billing records.

Why would a vacation club take so long to process something that can be done within minutes? Is it possible for a vacation club to drag their feet on purpose (I assume they are under no obligation whatsoever to complete the transfer in any finite amount of time)? As I understand, it is in the interest of the buyer to make the transfer complete so he/she can start using the timeshare, but what's the incentive of the seller in that? In other words, would the seller be adversely impacted if the transfer didn't take place (e.g. if the buyer was supposed to pay the transfer fees but for whatever reason didn't and hence the vacation club wouldn't make the transfer happen)?

 

[theo]

There are usually "workarounds" for slow closings...

Why would a vacation club take so long to process something that can be done within minutes? Is it possible for a vacation club to drag their feet on purpose (I assume they are under no obligation whatsoever to complete the transfer in any finite amount of time)? As I understand, it is in the interest of the buyer to make the transfer complete so he/she can start using the timeshare, but what's the incentive of the seller in that? In other words, would the seller be adversely impacted if the transfer didn't take place (e.g. if the buyer was supposed to pay the transfer fees but for whatever reason didn't and hence the vacation club wouldn't make the transfer happen)?

Well, a timeshare week can generally only be used once a year in the first place, so a buyer and seller can usually work something out to effectively deal with a slow closing in a mutually satisfactory manner. For example, if the timing is too "tight", sometimes a seller (while still the owner) can reserve a specific week which the soon-to-be buyer / owner wants to use, so that the reservation is already in place and confirmed when the closing is finalized. If it's a "fixed" week, it's generally best (and common) to plan the timing of the sale and closing well enough to allow for closing delays. Even then, a "fixed" week is available only to the actual owner anyhow (as long as fees are paid up and current).

There is no statutory or mandatory "time limit" in which a timeshare closing entity (or a parent "chain" timeshare company) must conclude an ownership transfer. Some chains (e.g., Wyndham, Legacy) have claimed to me that they are slow in processing ownership changes because "they also do their own title search". Whether this is a particularly credible explanation is, I guess, a matter of personal opinion...

A buyer who has ponied up the purchase funds but later reneges on paying the transfer fee is an unlikely scenario (not impossible, but also not likely). Most closing companies will require that the transfer fee (if any) be provided to them right along with the purchase funds and closing fees as part of the "escrow" process, thereby ensuring that all funds required to complete the transfer are firmly in hand before proceeding with deed recording, etc.

 

[dosh1965]

Well, a timeshare week can generally only be used once a year in the first place, so a buyer and seller can usually work something out to effectively deal with a slow closing in a mutually satisfactory manner. For example, if the timing is too "tight", sometimes a seller (while still the owner) can reserve a specific week which the soon-to-be buyer / owner wants to use, so that the reservation is already in place and confirmed when the closing is finalized. If it's a "fixed" week, it's generally best (and common) to plan the timing of the sale and closing well enough to allow for closing delays. Even then, a "fixed" week is available only to the actual owner anyhow (as long as fees are paid up and current).

There is no statutory or mandatory "time limit" in which a timeshare closing entity (or a parent "chain" timeshare company) must conclude an ownership transfer. Some chains (e.g., Wyndham, Legacy) have claimed to me that they are slow in processing ownership changes because "they also do their own title search". Whether this is a particularly credible explanation is, I guess, a matter of personal opinion...

A buyer who has ponied up the purchase funds but later reneges on paying the transfer fee is an unlikely scenario (not impossible, but also not likely). Most closing companies will require that the transfer fee (if any) be provided to them right along with the purchase funds and closing fees as part of the "escrow" process, thereby ensuring that all funds required to complete the transfer are firmly in hand before proceeding with deed recording, etc.

That makes sense, thank you for clarifying. Does a timeshare closing company have the right to refuse to enact a transfer then, if they got the transfer checks? I realize this sounds theoretical, just wondering why they are in a position to be holding all the cards.

 

[theo]

I don't understand your questionl...

That makes sense, thank you for clarifying. Does a timeshare closing company have the right to refuse to enact a transfer then, if they got the transfer checks? I realize this sounds theoretical, just wondering why they are in a position to be holding all the cards.

A closing company is (...or should be, anyhow) a completely independent entity which is not directly involved in the transaction, representing the interests of whoever is paying their fees in order to successfully complete a timeshare transaction and ownership change which is being voluntarily conducted by two willing parties, both of whom seek to achieve a common objective. The resort-imposed "transfer fee" (...if any) is completely unrelated to the closing company; it is a fee which is imposed solely by some (not all) resorts.

I don't understand what you mean by the closing company being "in a position to be holding all the cards". The closing company is (...or once again, should be) at "arms' length" in the transaction; they require their fees and signed documents to lawfully effect and conclude the ownership change --- no more, no less.
They hold the purchase funds (and the resort transfer fee, if any) in escrow, performing as an objective middleman, ensuring that no one is "out" any money until and unless the transaction is conducted and completed, lawfully and to the satisfaction of both buyer and seller. There are noteworthy exceptions to this rule; eBay mega-sellers often have very "cozy" relationships with a particular closing entity.
Indeed, sometimes these eBay resellers are their own closing entity. (Think foxes in the henhouse).

Maybe I'm just not really grasping the basic nature of your concern or your question...

 

[dosh1965]

A closing company is (...or should be, anyhow) a completely independent entity which is not directly involved in the transaction, representing the interests of whoever is paying their fees in order to successfully complete a timeshare transaction and ownership change which is being voluntarily conducted by two willing parties, both of whom seek to achieve a common objective. The resort-imposed "transfer fee" (...if any) is completely unrelated to the closing company; it is a fee which is imposed solely by some (not all) resorts.

I don't understand what you mean by the closing company being "in a position to be holding all the cards". The closing company is (...or once again, should be) at "arms' length" in the transaction; they require their fees and signed documents to lawfully effect and conclude the ownership change --- no more, no less.
They hold the purchase funds (and the resort transfer fee, if any) in escrow, performing as an objective middleman, ensuring that no one is "out" any money until and unless the transaction is conducted and completed, lawfully and to the satisfaction of both buyer and seller. There are noteworthy exceptions to this rule; eBay mega-sellers often have very "cozy" relationships with a particular closing entity.
Indeed, sometimes these eBay resellers are their own closing entity. (Think foxes in the henhouse).

Maybe I'm just not really grasping the basic nature of your concern or your question...

My bad, I was actually referring to the chain, not the closing company. As I understand, the closing company is simply the coordinator between the buyer, seller, state deed recorder and the chain. As far as I know, the resort is not the one imposing the transfer fee, it's the chain that does it since it's the one holding most of the contracts. I admit, it does get utterly confusing at times. So to restate my original question - could the chain (after the new deed has been recorded in the name of the buyer) have any option to not enact the transfer if they received the transfer fee?

 

[theo]

My bad, I was actually referring to the chain, not the closing company........ As far as I know, the resort is not the one imposing the transfer fee, it's the chain that does it since it's the one holding most of the contracts. ....So to restate my original question - could the chain (after the new deed has been recorded in the name of the buyer) have any option to not enact the transfer if they received the transfer fee?

First, let me just point out that not all timeshare resorts are affiliated in any way with any "chain". Independent timeshare resorts can (and do) decide on an individual basis whether or not to impose a transfer fee to "process" each ownership change and, if so, how much that fee will be. In the case of the "chains" (Wyndham, Legacy, etc.) the "transfer fee" is imposed "across the board" for any and all ownership changes within their "system", collected at the corporate level (i.e., not imposed or collected at the individual resort level).

A "chain" obviously cannot (and would not) fail to process an ownership change after receiving both a copy of a valid recorded deed and their "transfer fee". After all, the ownership itself is already lawfully transferred by the recording of a new valid deed; the previous owner is then "out of the picture" forever and never again responsible for any fees. The "chain" (in order to start billing the lawful new owner) must obviously acknowledge the ownership change in order to do so. It would be directly against their own financial interests (...not to mention overtly unlawful) for them to even consider doing otherwise.

The question you haven't asked is the fundamental one which no one seems to be able to answer, i.e. how can a resort (whether chain or independent) charge a "transfer fee" in the first place, just to change their internal records regarding an ownership change which has already been lawfully completed? The less-than-satisfactory answer to that particular question seems to be "...because they can, they too often do".... :annoyed:

 

[dosh1965]

First, let me just point out that not all timeshare resorts are affiliated in any way with any "chain". Independent timeshare resorts can (and do) decide on an individual basis whether or not to impose a transfer fee to "process" each ownership change and, if so, how much that fee will be. In the case of the "chains" (Wyndham, Legacy, etc. the "transfer fee" is an "across the board" charge for any and all ownership changes within their "system", imposed at the corporate level (i.e., not at the individual resort level).

A "chain" obviously cannot (and would not) fail to process an ownership change after receiving both a copy of a valid recorded deed and their "transfer fee". After all, the ownership itself is already lawfully transferred by the recording of a new valid deed; the previous owner is then "out of the picture" forever and never again responsible for any fees. The "chain" (in order to start billing the lawful new owner) must obviously acknowledge the ownership change in order to do so. It would be directly against their own financial intersts (...not to mention overtly unlawful) for them to ever do otherwise.

The question you haven't asked is the fundamental one which no one seems to be able to answer, i.e. how can a resort (whether chain or independent) charge a "transfer fee" in the first place, just to change their internal records regarding an ownership change which has already been lawfully completed? The answer to that question seems to be "because they can, they do".... :annoyed:

Many thanks for the detailed answers. My experience with timeshares is that they act from a deep one-sided point of interest and enact procedures that are based on "let's see how far we can push it" attitude. For example, why do I need to notarize a club membership cancellation form? That is unheard of in any other subscription-based membership I'm aware of. They make it very easy to get trapped in and very difficult to get out, probably thinking (often rightfully so) that most customers will give up trying and just give in.

 

[theo]

Comparing apples to oranges...

Many thanks for the detailed answers. My experience with timeshares is that they act from a deep one-sided point of interest and enact procedures that are based on "let's see how far we can push it" attitude. For example, why do I need to notarize a club membership cancellation form? That is unheard of in any other subscription-based membership I'm aware of.

You are most welcome. Some of your observations are sound, particularly in regard to some of the practices and policies of some of the big "chains" (such as Wyndham, Westgate, Celebrity / Legacy, etc.), but not necessarily applicable or accurate in regard to smaller, independent, sold out facilities where owners (not developer toadies) constitute the HOA, presumably with the best interests of their fellow owners at heart.

Timeshare (a.k.a. interval) ownership or its' cousin, "vacation club membership", are definitely arenas which any intrepid participant should (must, actually) enter with both eyes wide open --- then keep them open.

I might disagree a bit in regard to notarized signatures. Notarization of a signature is a brief, simple exercise (generally completed without even incurring any cost) which is intended merely to independently verify the identity associated with a signature. Simple and straightforward, I would submit.

A vacation club "membership" is a contract; of pre-defined (considerable) duration, voluntarily executed at (also considerable) cost, often thousands of dollars initially and hundreds of dollars annually thereafter. That's quite different from other lower cost, more benign "subscription based memberships" (such as YMCA or Costco membership, etc) which, by definition, can be very easily and unilaterally "dropped" by simply declining to pay the required annual (and often minimal) membership fees. The contracts underlying "vacation club memberships", on the other hand, are generally much more expensive, much longer in defined duration and with contract terms predictably more stringent and onerous. Mere notarization of signature(s) associated with any such instrument is easily accomplished and not an unreasonable expectation or request.