Ko Olina Presentation

[Nomad1a]

Good Morning, we just attended a presentation at the Ko Olina Marriott on Oahu. They offered us an interesting week/point combo deal. They were running a special on all Newport Beach resales with a smaller amount of required point purchase to complete the deal. We were offered $300 or 650 DC points to attend. There was a hotel point option too but I don’t recall what that was.

offer #1:
Newport Gold week (worth 2700 points) for $15,125
1500 DC or Abound points(not sure what they are called now) for $21,001
Total was $36,126 for 4,200 points for a total of $8.60 a point.
Bonus of 4500 one time points after purchase(with financing bonus) plus 40,000 hotel points.

offer #2:
Newport Platinum week (worth 3475 points) for $22,575
2000 DC/Abound points for $26,937
Total was $49,512 for 5,475 points for a total $9.04 a point.
Bonus of 6000 one time points after purchase( with financing bonus) and 40,000 hotel points.

Just thought I would share as there may be some out there who are interested in these type of deals.

 

[vol_90]

Good Morning, we just attended a presentation at the Ko Olina Marriott on Oahu. They offered us an interesting week/point combo deal. They were running a special on all Newport Beach resales with a smaller amount of required point purchase to complete the deal. We were offered $300 or 650 DC points to attend. There was a hotel point option too but I don’t recall what that was.

offer #1:
Newport Gold week (worth 2700 points) for $15,125
1500 DC or Abound points(not sure what they are called now) for $21,001
Total was $36,126 for 4,200 points for a total of $8.60 a point.
Bonus of 4500 one time points after purchase(with financing bonus) plus 40,000 hotel points.

offer #2:
Newport Platinum week (worth 3475 points) for $22,575
2000 DC/Abound points for $26,937
Total was $49,512 for 5,475 points for a total $9.04 a point.
Bonus of 6000 one time points after purchase( with financing bonus) and 40,000 hotel points.

Just thought I would share as there may be some out there who are interested in these type of deals.

Looks like they are back to offering Abound points for attending a presentation. 650 is one of the better offers I have heard of.

 

[frank808]

I am going to check next week and see if I can go to an "update" for 650 DC points.

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

 

[DanCali]

Good Morning, we just attended a presentation at the Ko Olina Marriott on Oahu. They offered us an interesting week/point combo deal. They were running a special on all Newport Beach resales with a smaller amount of required point purchase to complete the deal. We were offered $300 or 650 DC points to attend. There was a hotel point option too but I don’t recall what that was.

offer #1:
Newport Gold week (worth 2700 points) for $15,125
1500 DC or Abound points(not sure what they are called now) for $21,001
Total was $36,126 for 4,200 points for a total of $8.60 a point.
Bonus of 4500 one time points after purchase(with financing bonus) plus 40,000 hotel points.

offer #2:
Newport Platinum week (worth 3475 points) for $22,575
2000 DC/Abound points for $26,937
Total was $49,512 for 5,475 points for a total $9.04 a point.
Bonus of 6000 one time points after purchase( with financing bonus) and 40,000 hotel points.

Just thought I would share as there may be some out there who are interested in these type of deals.

From the perspective of a buyer looking at this as "total equity loss", offer 2 is probably better over time when you look at it incrementally:

1) You pay $7000 more for the deeded week, but get a week worth about $6000 more on the resale market (NCV Platinum sells for ~$9K-$10K, NCV Gold sells for ~$3K-$4K) and also get an extra 775 points annually with no incremental MF. If you value those points at $0.80/pt that's an extra $600 gain annually.

2) You pay an extra $6K for an extra 500 Abound points. This points are worth ~$2K on the resale market so a relatively small incremental net equity loss on this. But you also get an extra one-time 1500 DC points that offsets that substantially.

 

[DRH90277]

One can buy a resale Newport Coast Platinum week for $9,000 or less. Why not buy a couple of these for under $20,000, rent them out for rent or exchange into what you want. You would also save on maintenance fees and can recover your investment when you get tired of timeshare. I know this is too simple for many, but it does work.

Don't suffer from the illusion that you can reserve what you want for points - it's often very hard.

 

[Red elephant]

One can buy a resale Newport Coast Platinum week for $9,000 or less. Why not buy a couple of these for under $20,000, rent them out for rent or exchange into what you want. You would also save on maintenance fees and can recover your investment when you get tired of timeshare. I know this is too simple for many, but it does work.

Don't suffer from the illusion that you can reserve what you want for points - it's often very hard.

For anyone interested. There are 57 rentals for June 2025 and 83 rentals for July 2025 at Newport not sure buying to rent is as lucrative as before. Buying resale to use definitely . Buying points no. I exchanged into Newport for June 2025 with 1 bedroom MGC.

 

[DanCali]

.

 

[DanCali]

For anyone interested. There are 57 rentals for June 2025 and 83 rentals for July 2025 at Newport not sure buying to rent is as lucrative as before. Buying resale to use definitely . Buying points no. I exchanged into Newport for June 2025 with 1 bedroom MGC.

This is actually normal. What’s not is that you had 250+ July 2024 rentals in April. More owners are competing for fewer renters who also changed their rental habits post pandemic and no longer rent 10+ months in advance.

 

[DRH90277]

For anyone interested. There are 57 rentals for June 2025 and 83 rentals for July 2025 at Newport not sure buying to rent is as lucrative as before. Buying resale to use definitely . Buying points no. I exchanged into Newport for June 2025 with 1 bedroom MGC.

I mostly agree with you, but rentals continue to be good for us.

We usually get late June to mid-August Newport bookings. Please keep in mind that there are 51 buildings and nearly 700 villas at Newport - rental listings are a very small percentage of available weeks for June of about 2,800 (4x700). My math may be rusty but even 60 current rental listings versus June available weeks of about 2,800 is nothing.

My comment was to suggest that there are better ways to make timeshare work. Our success has not been with buying points. We are much happier with our portfolio of weeks that we use, rent, or trade. Incidentally, we're now closing on two more Platinum weeks, OceanWatch Ocean-Side and one at Grand Chateau - total spend under $13,000. By the way, we are not buying to rent out, but it is sometimes a great option.

 

[Red elephant]

I mostly agree with you, but rentals continue to be good for us.

We usually get late June to mid-August Newport bookings. Please keep in mind that there are 51 buildings and nearly 700 villas at Newport - rental listings are a very small percentage of available weeks for June of about 2,800 (4x700). My math may be rusty but even 60 current rental listings versus June available weeks of about 2,800 is nothing.

My comment was to suggest that there are better ways to make timeshare work. Our success has not been with buying points. We are much happier with our portfolio of weeks that we use, rent, or trade. Incidentally, we're now closing on two more Platinum weeks, OceanWatch Ocean-Side and one at Grand Chateau - total spend under $13,000. By the way, we are not buying to rent out, but it is sometimes a great option.

Based on DanCali’s post renting is not viable either as people are waiting till the last minute. Buy resale what you want to use that’s it in these times is my advise to anyone.

 

[DRH90277]

Based on DanCali’s post renting is not viable either as people are waiting till the last minute. Buy resale what you want to use that’s it in these times is my advise to anyone.

I don't know where this is coming from about tough rentals at Newport Coast and can only suspect it's coming from someone with less desirable weeks. I continue to have success with rentals at Newport Coast and OceanWatch mid-June to mid-August. Anyway, I hope DanCali's luck changes.

 

[DanCali]

I don't know where this is coming from about tough rentals at Newport Coast and can only suspect it's coming from someone with less desirable weeks. I continue to have success with rentals at Newport Coast and OceanWatch mid-June to mid-August. Anyway, I hope DanCali's luck changes.

My NCV rentals are always booked for July or very early August and I've been renting there on and off when we don't use the weeks for about 15 years, so I'm not new it...

I think "success" in renting is relative... Are you getting 30% more than you did 2 years ago? Are you getting as many inquiries per listing with all that glut of listings. My recent experience has been that rental prices in 2024 are about the same as in 2022, perhaps even slightly lower. On the other hand, maintenance fees since 2022 are up 30%. I've also had more rentals inside 90 days in recent years than in the past, when I often rented weeks 8+ months out. It rents, but not as early as in the past, and not as profitably as in the past. The thing is, that if/once it is no longer profitable, very few will want those weeks on the resale market and it becomes a bad situation. I don't think we're headed there quite yet, and may still be far from it, but the trend should at least be worrisome. This probably explains why you currently have close to 70 resales on Redweek, including lots of Platinum weeks, when in the past you only just had a handful.

 

[DRH90277]

My NCV rentals are always booked for July or very early August and I've been renting there on and off when we don't use the weeks for about 15 years, so I'm not new it...

I think "success" in renting is relative... Are you getting 30% more than you did 2 years ago? Are you getting as many inquiries per listing with all that glut of listings. My recent experience has been that rental prices in 2024 are about the same as in 2022, perhaps even slightly lower. On the other hand, maintenance fees since 2022 are up 30%. I've also had more rentals inside 90 days in recent years than in the past, when I often rented weeks 8+ months out. It rents, but not as early as in the past, and not as profitably as in the past. The thing is, that if/once it is no longer profitable, very few will want those weeks on the resale market and it becomes a bad situation. I don't think we're headed there quite yet, and may still be far from it, but the trend should at least be worrisome. This probably explains why you currently have close to 70 resales on Redweek, including lots of Platinum weeks, when in the past you only just had a handful.

I don't know of any owner who is trying to make a living renting out timeshares (other than MVC). I suspect most of us use rentals or exchanges as a backup for bookings in excess of our needs for our use or to cover maintenance fees. The rental rates for our NC platinum summer weeks are typically in the $550 per night range and this is fine for us as maintenance fees and property taxes run at about 53% of this. Having purchased Newport at resale prices makes this tolerable for us.

I would strongly suggest that buying a week from MVC or trying to use points for rental stock will turn our meager effort on it's head. Again, our rentals are only a default play when we have too much Newport Coast.

This is only my view but my experience has been quite consistent over the years.

I apologize if I have written anything offensive here as that is not my intent. Throwing some caution to those buying for the rental dream is a good thing.

 

[Dean]

I don't know of any owner who is trying to make a living renting out timeshares (other than MVC). I suspect most of us use rentals or exchanges as a backup for bookings in excess of our needs for our use or to cover maintenance fees. The rental rates for our NC platinum summer weeks are typically in the $550 per night range and this is fine for us as maintenance fees and property taxes run at about 53% of this. Having purchased Newport at resale prices makes this tolerable for us.

I would strongly suggest that buying a week from MVC or trying to use points for rental stock will turn our meager effort on it's head. Again, our rentals are only a default play when we have too much Newport Coast.

This is only my view but my experience has been quite consistent over the years.

I apologize if I have written anything offensive here as that is not my intent. Throwing some caution to those buying for the rental dream is a good thing.

While I agree with your conclusions, I am aware of several over the years actually doing this as an investment with several timeshare companies. I've always thought it foolish and extremely risky. For me to see it worthwhile, I'd have to see returns in the 20% range consistently. Personally I'd extend the sentiment even to the situation of owning extra specifically to rent to cover maintenance fees. A more reasonable situation, IMO, is owning to use and renting on off years and even that depends on specifics.

 

[DanCali]

The rental rates for our NC platinum summer weeks are typically in the $550 per night range and this is fine for us as maintenance fees and property taxes run at about 53% of this. Having purchased Newport at resale prices makes this tolerable for us.

I don't disagree that that's the typical rate for peak summer, although some weeks have gone for much less this past year when there was a glut of listings at 120-60 days out.

The main point I was making is that the rate you cited was probably the same 2 years ago. And while it might still "work" given the ~$1900 in MFs, it just doesn't work as well as it did 2 years ago with the same rental rates and MFs of ~$1400...

Not to get too much into the Vistana minutia in a MVC thread, but taken to the extreme this trend leads to a resale situation like the Harborside Resort at Atlantis - you can see those listings on Redweek. Great resort with full access to a fantastic water part yet most owners looking to sell or give those away simply can't.

 

[DRH90277]

I don't disagree that that's the typical rate for peak summer, although some weeks have gone for much less this past year when there was a glut of listings at 120-60 days out.

The main point I was making is that the rate you cited was probably the same 2 years ago. And while it might still "work" given the ~$1900 in MFs, it just doesn't work as well as it did 2 years ago with the same rental rates and MFs of ~$1400...

Not to get too much into the Vistana minutia in a MVC thread, but taken to the extreme this trend leads to a resale situation like the Harborside Resort at Atlantis - you can see those listings on Redweek. Great resort with full access to a fantastic water part yet most owners looking to sell or give those away simply can't.

I do appreciate your perspective, experience, and the raising of some red flags.

Exposure - I suspect the exposure varies considerably from property to property. The drivers of these declines would include high maintenance fees (aging properties), desirability of properties with attendant local attractions, the economy, MVC's ever increasing take, etc. I don't worry much about our portfolio of Newport Coast, OceanWatch, Timber Lodge and even Custom House. I am concerned about Grand Chateau as I don't see the charm of just another hotel. I also think some of the properties are quite unspectacular hotel-like stays. I do worry about what MVC is doing to us in the way of adding some lower-than-average properties, taking a development profit, and jacking up the point maintenance fees. I wish I could say that MVC is really looking out for the interests of legacy owners.

So, I plod along and buy what makes sense for our family's use at what I think are bargain prices - Just bought another Platinum OceanWatch ocean-side. They are not making any more of this stuff - very desirable, drivable, and sells out quickly for points. And, week owners can get their reservations because they own in a short summer season.

Sorry to ramble on. This is only my view of our position as heavy users of "our owned" weeks.

 

[DanCali]

I do appreciate your perspective, experience, and the raising of some red flags.

Exposure - I suspect the exposure varies considerably from property to property. The drivers of these declines would include high maintenance fees (aging properties), desirability of properties with attendant local attractions, the economy, MVC's ever increasing take, etc. I don't worry much about our portfolio of Newport Coast, OceanWatch, Timber Lodge and even Custom House. I am concerned about Grand Chateau as I don't see the charm of just another hotel. I also think some of the properties are quite unspectacular hotel-like stays. I do worry about what MVC is doing to us in the way of adding some lower-than-average properties, taking a development profit, and jacking up the point maintenance fees. I wish I could say that MVC is really looking out for the interests of legacy owners.

So, I plod along and buy what makes sense for our family's use at what I think are bargain prices - Just bought another Platinum OceanWatch ocean-side. They are not making any more of this stuff - very desirable, drivable, and sells out quickly for points. And, week owners can get their reservations because they own in a short summer season.

Sorry to ramble on. This is only my view of our position as heavy users of "our owned" weeks.

I don't own GC, but am actually finding Grand Chateau much more appealing as an option (for points bookings) since the pandemic. Before then, I used to go to Las Vegas 2-3 times a year with the Amex Platinum Fine Hotel and Resorts benefits and get a room at a hotel like Delano or Bellagio for for $250-$300/night. Now it seems that all those "Fine Hotels" charge $500-$700/night which makes it ridiculous for my 2-night stays when I go there to bet on NFL games. I'll gladly pass on the $120 free breakfasts and $100 meal credit (part of the Amex Platinum benefits) in exchange for booking a 1BR at GC, especially at 60 days out with a 30% discount (usually around 500-600 points for a Sat-Mon stay)...

The jacked up point maintenance fees is purely a function of greed on their part. They can ROFR NCV Week 26 Platinum Plus weeks for $18K-$20K and add 5300 points to the Trust and sell that for ~$75K (any business would kill for those margins). Moreover, those NCV points are about $0.35/pt in MFs and if they added more of those Plat Plus event weeks from various resorts they can substantially lower the MF/pt in the Trust. Unfortunately for us, it's much more tempting to ROFR 2 NCV Gold weeks for $5000 total, add 5400 points to the Trust and sell those points for the same amount but at a much higher profit margin. The problem is that those NCV points have MFs of $0.70/pt which the point owners end up paying. And that is how we got to where we are over the years....

 

[dioxide45]

I don't know of any owner who is trying to make a living renting out timeshares (other than MVC). I suspect most of us use rentals or exchanges as a backup for bookings in excess of our needs for our use or to cover maintenance fees.

I could probably list about 10 people from these boards that create pretty good revenue from timeshare rentals. Are they making a living out of it? Probably not, but they could probably make it work if they had to. I suspect it does create some good money on the side. I still maintain, it doesn't really matter what the income or revenue from rentals is used for. It doesn't change it from commercial activity to non commercial activity just because it is used to pay for travel or cover maintenance fees.

 

[dioxide45]

The jacked up point maintenance fees is purely a function of greed on their part. They can ROFR NCV Platinum Plus weeks for $18K-$20K and add 5300 points to the Trust and sell that for ~$75K (any business would kill for those margins). Moreover, those NCV points are about $0.35/pt in MFs and if you add enough of those Plat Plus event weeks from various resorts you can substantially lower the MF/pt in the Trust. Unfortunately for us, it's much more tempting to ROFR 2 NCV Gold weeks for $5000 total, add 5400 points to the Trust and sell those points for the same amount but at a much higher profit margin. The problem is that those NCV points have MFs of $0.70/pt which the point owners end up paying. And that is how we got to where we are over the years....

If there are only about 700 units at the resort, then there are only 700 Plat Plus weeks available to buy back. That isn't very many in the grand scheme of things.

 

[DanCali]

If there are only about 700 units at the resort, then there are only 700 Plat Plus weeks available to buy back. That isn't very many in the grand scheme of things.

True, ~700 Plat Plus Week 26 with 5300 points. But you also have the ~700 PP week 52s at NCV with ~4600 points (substantially better the 3475 for Platinum and 2700 for Gold).

But my comment was more general - i.e., if they added more of those Plat Plus event weeks from various resorts they can substantially lower the MF/pt in the Trust.

Aruba, Hawaii, Crystal Shores, St Thomas, Palm Beaches, the various Ski Resorts etc all have event weeks with highly attractive (low) MF/point. I just don't see them going in that direction unless the high MF/point become a serious obstacle to sales.

 

[dioxide45]

True, ~700 Plat Plus Week 26 with 5300 points. But you also have the ~700 PP week 52s at NCV with ~4600 points (substantially better the 3475 for Platinum and 2700 for Gold).

But my comment was more general - i.e., if they added more of those Plat Plus event weeks from various resorts they can substantially lower the MF/pt in the Trust.

Aruba, Hawaii, Crystal Shores, St Thomas, Palm Beaches, the various Ski Resorts etc all have event weeks with highly attractive (low) MF/point. I just don't see them going in that direction unless the high MF/point become a serious obstacle to sales.

It would help to lower the fees for points, but overall Plat Plus and Holiday weeks are just a tiny fraction. Those also don't come up for sale nearly as often and when they do they have a premium. If MVC were to step in and start activly going out and buying them, it would drive up the prices more. In the end, MFs cost the owners money and not so much MVC (except on their rental margin). They make much of their revenue from sales. So buying two gold weeks is better than one Plat Plus.

 

[DanCali]

So buying two gold weeks is better than one Plat Plus.

Better for MVC... but not for the owners why buy the underlying points. They pay higher MFs and have lousier weeks as their "home resort".

 

[Dean]

I could probably list about 10 people from these boards that create pretty good revenue from timeshare rentals. Are they making a living out of it? Probably not, but they could probably make it work if they had to. I suspect it does create some good money on the side. I still maintain, it doesn't really matter what the income or revenue from rentals is used for. It doesn't change it from commercial activity to non commercial activity just because it is used to pay for travel or cover maintenance fees.

I would hold that the intent of a given rental, what the money is used for or even the intent of the owner is irrelevant. I believe that for weeks, the ability to rent is inherent in the contract. So the question is what's the balance between the ability to rent a week one owns and the "commercial activity" restriction. IMO it's simply volume over time meaning many weeks over several years. DVC has similar wording and they have defined the line between personal and commercial as they will start to look at it at 20 reservations. Bluegreen has chosen to limit the number of reservations for a given area (not just resort) at no more than 10 in a time period for everyone although their points structure and trust set up gives them more control, as does the MVC Trust product.

 

[frank808]

Good Morning, we just attended a presentation at the Ko Olina Marriott on Oahu. They offered us an interesting week/point combo deal. They were running a special on all Newport Beach resales with a smaller amount of required point purchase to complete the deal. We were offered $300 or 650 DC points to attend. There was a hotel point option too but I don’t recall what that was.

offer #1:
Newport Gold week (worth 2700 points) for $15,125
1500 DC or Abound points(not sure what they are called now) for $21,001
Total was $36,126 for 4,200 points for a total of $8.60 a point.
Bonus of 4500 one time points after purchase(with financing bonus) plus 40,000 hotel points.

offer #2:
Newport Platinum week (worth 3475 points) for $22,575
2000 DC/Abound points for $26,937
Total was $49,512 for 5,475 points for a total $9.04 a point.
Bonus of 6000 one time points after purchase( with financing bonus) and 40,000 hotel points.

Just thought I would share as there may be some out there who are interested in these type of deals.

Just stopped by sales center. They told me the offer was either $175 or 40K Bonvoy points.

I mentioned what you were offered and she asked if you were on a encore package? She has seen that offer when you are on an encore package. My thought is if you were on an encode package, why would they offer you anything as you have to attend a presentation anyway.

Where you on an encore package or stopped by sales center and offered the $300 or 650 DC points?



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[Hindsite]

So the question is what's the balance between the ability to rent a week one owns and the "commercial activity" restriction. IMO it's simply volume over time meaning many weeks over several years.

There are a broad range of ways that they could apply an interpretation for commercial activity, including the intent to make a profit and the actions to promote the offering for rental.
The timeshare companies only have the patterns of use data to base any actions on, so its easier for them to put the criteria in that you describe. They don't even have the information on whether a particular reservation was rented out or gifted, just that it is being used by someone that isn't the owner who booked it.
Unfortunately that means they can only put in restrictions that capture people who are not renting out as well as those that do. IMO that's why we are seeing a nibbling away at the edges by MVC, to try and find the way to discourage those who are abusing the reservation system without causing disruption to legitimate usage.
It will be interesting to see how this evolves.....
Perhaps they will improve their offering under their rental programme to encourage more volume that way if the scale of the external rental market is enough to be worth it.