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Killed by a virus he thought had been overhyped

CanuckTravlr

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This is what happens when certain people and certain media are prone to calling everything a "hoax" and over-hyped. We saw it here on these forums with commentaries that it was overblown and more people died each year from the regular flu. With Covid-19 now running rampant through the USA and elsewhere in the world, those voices now seem silent.

Until the appearance of Covid-19, those types of comments did not generally impact life-or-death situations. We now know that it was neither a hoax nor over-hyped. But I suspect we will not find any of them accepting or acknowledging even a scintilla of responsibility for the results of their comments. Unfortunately, it will be people like the pastor and his family who trusted them, that will actually be the ones paying the price.
 
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WVBaker

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This is what happens when certain people and certain media are prone to calling everything a "hoax" and over-hyped. We saw it here on these forums with commentaries that it was overblown and more people died each year from the regular flu. With Covid-19 now running rampant through the USA and elsewhere in the world, those voices now seem silent.

Until the appearance of Covid-19, those types of comments did not generally impact life-or-death situations. We now know that it was neither a hoax nor over-hyped. But I suspect we will not find any of them accepting or acknowledging even a scintilla of responsibility for the results of their comments. Unfortunately, it will be people like the pastor and his family who trusted them, that will actually be the ones paying the price.

There were many in the medical field that also felt that way at the time, based on what information was coming out of China.

Is this really the time, after all the facts are becoming clearer and clearer every day, to begin the "I told you so" speech. In the end we all make our own choices Each and every one of us decide what path we choose, what we believe or what we don't.

Now, feel free to go back to your finger pointing and if we ever need to know what the future may hold, we know where to come. ;)
 

CanuckTravlr

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There were many in the medical field that also felt that way at the time, based on what information was coming out of China.

Is this really the time, after all the facts are becoming clearer and clearer every day, to begin the "I told you so" speech. In the end we all make our own choices Each and every one of us decide what path we choose, what we believe or what we don't.

Now, feel free to go back to your finger pointing and if we ever need to know what the future may hold, we know where to come. ;)

Funny how that works. Lots of criticism (you can call it "finger pointing" if you wish) going on at the time by those that "weren't convinced" or felt it was a "hoax". But now that the shoe is on the other foot and the "hoax" mongers are being proven to be wrong, God forbid that anyone should criticize them!! Interesting; I think I have seen this type of reactionary response before somewhere. :ponder:
 

Timeshare Von

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I'll admit to not taking this COVID-19 seriously at the beginning. In fact, the weekend of March 6-8, I was the lead on a statewide youth bowling event that involved over 1,000 players plus coaches and their families . . . easily 1,000 people in a 60 lane bowling center/facility at any given time over the three day weekend. I was not only still hand-shaking, but also hugging those close friends I'd been hugging for years.

It usually started with "Are you still a hugger?" and ended up with a "Heck yeah, bring it in!"

How stupid that seemed less than a week later, as I was systematically closing down every other bowling event we had on the books for the coming two months.

I'm just glad I'm a month past that weekend, with no signs of anything. As 60+ year old asthmatic, with an already compromised lung due to prior illness, I'm afraid I'm one of those "most at risk" of COVID-19. I'm also glad we've been on state mandated "Safer At Home" orders and that our office has been closed for two weeks now.

86283105_2965427160184235_8543546011740536832_n.jpg

Here's a photo from that weekend!
 

CanuckTravlr

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Yvonne, I am so pleased to learn that you are still symptom-free. The last few weeks must have been a bit nerve-wracking as you waited to find out if you had been exposed. There is nothing funny or imagined about this virus, nor how virulent it can be, with often devastating effects to those with compromised health or immune systems.

My brother, who is 67, just went through chemotherapy and radiation last year due to cancer and his immune system is still compromised. I am afraid for him and we have deliberately not seen him now for over a month. Our family will all be celebrating Easter this year in our separate homes. Please stay safe! :wave:
 
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CO skier

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This is what happens when certain people and certain media are prone to calling everything a "hoax" and over-hyped. We saw it here on these forums with commentaries that it was overblown and more people died each year from the regular flu.
Anyone who thinks Covid-19 was/is not over-hyped need look no further than the pictures of people wheeling cartloads of tp and bottled water out of stores a couple of weeks ago. Irrational behavior directly resulting from the media-induced panic over swag guesses, at the time, about how the epidemic might play out.

I did an “Everywhere” search on TUG for “hoax.” There were quite a number of posts, but I could not find a single instance where a TUGGER called the Coronavirus epidemic a “hoax.” There have been quite a number of discussions about whether essentially shutting down the world economy is an over-reaction, but that does not mean people think Covid-19 is a hoax.

As has been mentioned in a few threads, social distancing does not save that many lives. Current estimates are that about 80% of the US population will be infected with the Coronavirus. Those who are susceptible now will be susceptible in the near future and likely suffer the same fate as without social distancing. The infection and death rates are just spread out over a longer period of time. Maybe long enough for some treatments to be approved and help some people, but likely not long enough before vaccines are developed and approved.

No one knows how many people will ultimately die from a Covid-19 infection, or how much effect social distancing may have on the outcome, or if killing the economy then spending trillions to revive it was the appropriate response. A lot remains unknown about the Covid-19 pandemic, and Dr. Fauci said as much in yesterday’s briefing. “You know when we’ll get the scientific data? When we get those antibody tests out there… Right now, we’re just guessing.



Speaker 30: (01:24:45)
Dr. Fauci, how many additional asymptomatic cases do you think there are currently in the United States? There’s 330,000 more confirmed cases. How many asymptomatic, given what we’ve learned [crosstalk 01:24:56].

Dr. Fauci: (01:24:56)
We don’t know. And even among us, good friends that we all are, we differ about that. I mean, it’s somewhere between 25 and 50%.

Speaker 30: (01:25:06)
More than the current level?

Dr. Fauci: (01:25:07)
In other words, about the people that are out there. Yeah. And trust me, that is a estimate. I don’t have any scientific data yet to say that. You know when we’ll get the scientific data? When we get those antibody tests out there and we really know what the penetrance is, then we can answer the questions in a scientifically sound way. Right now, we’re just guessing.
 

Panina

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Anyone who thinks Covid-19 was/is not over-hyped need look no further than the pictures of people wheeling cartloads of tp and bottled water out of stores a couple of weeks ago. Irrational behavior directly resulting from the media-induced panic over swag guesses, at the time, about how the epidemic might play out.

I did an “Everywhere” search on TUG for “hoax.” There were quite a number of posts, but I could not find a single instance where a TUGGER called the Coronavirus epidemic a “hoax.” There have been quite a number of discussions about whether essentially shutting down the world economy is an over-reaction, but that does not mean people think Covid-19 is a hoax.

As has been mentioned in a few threads, social distancing does not save that many lives. Current estimates are that about 80% of the US population will be infected with the Coronavirus. Those who are susceptible now will be susceptible in the near future and likely suffer the same fate as without social distancing. The infection and death rates are just spread out over a longer period of time. Maybe long enough for some treatments to be approved and help some people, but likely not long enough before vaccines are developed and approved.

No one knows how many people will ultimately die from a Covid-19 infection, or how much effect social distancing may have on the outcome, or if killing the economy then spending trillions to revive it was the appropriate response. A lot remains unknown about the Covid-19 pandemic, and Dr. Fauci said as much in yesterday’s briefing. “You know when we’ll get the scientific data? When we get those antibody tests out there… Right now, we’re just guessing.



Speaker 30: (01:24:45)
Dr. Fauci, how many additional asymptomatic cases do you think there are currently in the United States? There’s 330,000 more confirmed cases. How many asymptomatic, given what we’ve learned [crosstalk 01:24:56].

Dr. Fauci: (01:24:56)
We don’t know. And even among us, good friends that we all are, we differ about that. I mean, it’s somewhere between 25 and 50%.

Speaker 30: (01:25:06)
More than the current level?

Dr. Fauci: (01:25:07)
In other words, about the people that are out there. Yeah. And trust me, that is a estimate. I don’t have any scientific data yet to say that. You know when we’ll get the scientific data? When we get those antibody tests out there and we really know what the penetrance is, then we can answer the questions in a scientifically sound way. Right now, we’re just guessing.
I went to the recycling center today and was shocked to see every parking lot filled more then when there wasn’t a virus, at stores like Walmart and three supermarkets I passed. That is the reason it is still spreading.

As far a “hoax”, not, but many officials all sides of the political spectrum downplayed the severity initially. My belief was because they had garbage data from China and used it as fact.
 

dayooper

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I'll admit to not taking this COVID-19 seriously at the beginning. In fact, the weekend of March 6-8, I was the lead on a statewide youth bowling event that involved over 1,000 players plus coaches and their families . . . easily 1,000 people in a 60 lane bowling center/facility at any given time over the three day weekend. I was not only still hand-shaking, but also hugging those close friends I'd been hugging for years.

It usually started with "Are you still a hugger?" and ended up with a "Heck yeah, bring it in!"

How stupid that seemed less than a week later, as I was systematically closing down every other bowling event we had on the books for the coming two months.

I'm just glad I'm a month past that weekend, with no signs of anything. As 60+ year old asthmatic, with an already compromised lung due to prior illness, I'm afraid I'm one of those "most at risk" of COVID-19. I'm also glad we've been on state mandated "Safer At Home" orders and that our office has been closed for two weeks now.

86283105_2965427160184235_8543546011740536832_n.jpg

Here's a photo from that weekend!

We decided to hold off both my sons from the city bowling tournament on the 15th. My oldest was on a roll. He was bowling well above his average and just 2 weeks prior, he won the High School JV State Championship! It was a very tough decision for us. For my youngest, it would have been his first tournament. Now we are just hoping the bowling centers are still able to open after all of this is finished!
 

Timeshare Von

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Yvonne, I am so pleased to learn that you are still symptom-free. The last few weeks must have been a bit nerve-wracking as you waited to find out if you had been exposed. There is nothing funny or imagined about this virus, nor how virulent it can be, with often devastating effects to those with compromised health or immune systems.

My brother, who is 67, just went through chemotherapy and radiation last year due to cancer and his immune system is still compromised. I am afraid for him and we have deliberately not seen him now for over a month. Our family will all be celebrating Easter this year in our separate homes. Please stay safe! :wave:

Thank you for your kind words. It was a bit nerve-wracking, for sure.

I will say a prayer for your brother and all who are compromised for whatever the reason. It's tough for sure, but one day at a time, we will get though this!
 

davidvel

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The flu vs. Covid19 comparison is still interesting. Almost 75,000 covid deaths vs. about 400,000 flu deaths so far this year. Flu has a vaccine and some herd immunity going for it, covid has lockdowns. Death rate for covid is about 60x (.06) that of the flu (.1).

Most people (90-99%) won't die if they catch either one.
 

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Funny how that works. Lots of criticism (you can call it "finger pointing" if you wish) going on at the time by those that "weren't convinced" or felt it was a "hoax". But now that the shoe is on the other foot and the "hoax" mongers are being proven to be wrong, God forbid that anyone should criticize them!! Interesting; I think I have seen this type of reactionary response before somewhere. :ponder:

No, it's not really "funny" at all. There were those that had one opinion and those that had another. I don't think I would use the term, "hoax monger", but to each their own.

Back in January the WHO said a mysterious pneumonia was sickening dozens in China. Health authorities in China confirm that dozens of people in Wuhan, China, are being treated for pneumonia from an unknown source. Many of those sickened had visited a live animal market in Wuhan, but authorities say there is no evidence of the virus spreading from person to person.

So guess what, they were wrong.

Listen, I'm not here to debate if some among us were wrong, hell, the "experts" at the WHO were wrong. It must be wonderful to never be wrong in life. It's a trait that not many have and I admire you. Shall I get down on bended knee and beg your forgiveness? Here's a thought, let's keep track of every posting made, and when a member is proven wrong, we can point it out.

So, if you prefer, we can continue this back and forth and perhaps get this shut down or you can claim your righteousness behavior and move on.
 

CalGalTraveler

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Here's the playbook. As learned in corporate and government bureaucracies:
  • Blame others to deflect from taking accountability for one's own errors in judgement.
  • Deny it was ever said (despite evidence proving otherwise)
  • Say 'Forget the past. Let's move forward.'
Sound familiar?

With that said, no one appreciates an "I told you so..." Especially if one never accepted accountability in the first place.
 
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clifffaith

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I went to the recycling center today and was shocked to see every parking lot filled more then when there wasn’t a virus, at stores like Walmart and three supermarkets I passed. That is the reason it is still spreading.

As far a “hoax”, not, but many officials all sides of the political spectrum downplayed the severity initially. My belief was because they had garbage data from China and used it as fact.

Girl, on St. Patrick's day you were freaking out that your better half was going in and out multiple times a day and wouldn't stay put. What the heck were you doing at the recycling center? You should be home baking bread with all those bananas! ;)
 

TravelTime

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I think this is a terrible health crisis and the thought of getting sick with Covid-19 is very scary. I have been reading stories about what it is like to go on a ventilator. I told my DH if I get sick enough to go on a ventilator, that I do not want it. When I see other people, my brain immediately jumps to ”danger, stay away.” I get scared whenever I read another story of someone dying and watching the numbers go up so rapidly. The thought of going back out into the world when this lockdown ends is scary. This is the emotional side of my brain speaking.

The rational side of my brain says that I can handle it if I get sick, that it is more than likely I would survive and my loved ones and friends would survive. I remember the few facts we know about this disease and it’s that most people do not show symptoms or have mild to moderate symptoms. I remember that while older people are more at risk of dying, that the majority of older people recover. I remind myself that catastrophizing and thinking about worst case scenarios just produces a new problem, like unproductive fear, worry and anxiety. I think there is a lot of hopeful information about how to keep yourself safe and the many stories of recovery. I prefer to focus on the positive and not live in fear.
 

Panina

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Girl, on St. Patrick's day you were freaking out that your better half was going in and out multiple times a day and wouldn't stay put. What the heck were you doing at the recycling center? You should be home baking bread with all those bananas! ;)
I was making sure that was the only stop he made.
 

Timeshare Von

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We decided to hold off both my sons from the city bowling tournament on the 15th. My oldest was on a roll. He was bowling well above his average and just 2 weeks prior, he won the High School JV State Championship! It was a very tough decision for us. For my youngest, it would have been his first tournament. Now we are just hoping the bowling centers are still able to open after all of this is finished!

Good for you being proactive with your family's health. We had so many parents who really beat us up as we were cancelling our events, when it was becoming apparent it was really the only decision we could ethically make.

I hope all is well with them, and bowling will be back!

#BowlingStrong
 
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Panina

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I think this is a terrible health crisis and the thought of getting sick with Covid-19 is very scary. I have been reading stories about what it is like to go on a ventilator. I told my DH if I get sick enough to go on a ventilator, that I do not want it. When I see other people, my brain immediately jumps to ”danger, stay away.” I get scared whenever I read another story of someone dying and watching the numbers go up so rapidly. The thought of going back out into the world when this lockdown ends is scary. This is the emotional side of my brain speaking.

The rational side of my brain says that I can handle it if I get sick, that it is more than likely I would survive and my loved ones and friends would survive. I remember the few facts we know about this disease and it’s that most people do not show symptoms or have mild to moderate symptoms. I remember that while older people are more at risk of dying, that the majority of older people recover. I remind myself that catastrophizing and thinking about worst case scenarios just produces a new problem, like unproductive fear, worry and anxiety. I think there is a lot of hopeful information about how to keep yourself safe and the many stories of recovery. I prefer to focus on the positive and not live in fear.
I am with you, focus on the positive. Sometimes hard but I keep striving to see the positive.

If this virus was slow to spread, no curve more like the annual flu curve rate, and in total we had the same amounts of deaths as we are having now, most would not be in fear. Because it is spreading so fast and our health resources are overwhelmed the fear cannot be ignored by most.
 

Talent312

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The flu vs. Covid19 comparison is still interesting...

“Lying to your listeners ceases to be a viable business model at the point where the lies start killing the listeners." -- David Frum, a conservative critic of his fellow commentators.

True numbers of deaths from reputable sources:
For COVID-19 in the U.S. -- 10,335 (as of 4/6):
For the Flu in the U.S. -- 34,200 (2018-19 Season).

-- https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea...ronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu
-- https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html

Where we will top out on this, no one knows.
.
 
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dayooper

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Good for you being proactive with your family's health. We had so many parents who really beat us up as we were cancelling our events, when it was becoming apparent it was really the only decision we could ethically make.

I hope all is well with them, and bowling will be back!

#BowlingStront

His friend and bowling partner since elementary school went ahead and participated in the singles tournament without him. There was a huge outcry on both sides to run that squad of the tournament that weekend. It was the last one as they canceled the following squads.

The picture you showed was just like the meets and tournaments we had. Packed to the max. It’s the reason why we didn’t go. Being part of and coaching in the youth bowling scene her in Michigan, I knew what to expect. I was just happy as a coach that I could avoid that mess the past 2 season. I was able to sit outside that mess. Hopefully, I will be part of that mess next year as my son will be on Varsity.
 
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TravelTime

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“Lying to your listeners ceases to be a viable business model at the point where the lies start killing the listeners." -- David Frum, a conservative critic of his fellow commentators.

True numbers of deaths from reputable sources:
For COVID-19 in the U.S. -- 10,335 (as of 4/6):
For the Flu in the U.S. -- 34,200 (2018-19 Season).

-- https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea...ronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu
-- https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html

Where we'll top out at this, no one knows.
.

I wonder if flu numbers are down because of social distancing. The flu should spread less rapidly or can be avoided if everyone is staying home.
 

Panina

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I wonder if flu numbers are down because of social distancing. The flu should spread less rapidly or can be avoided if everyone is staying home.
The flu numbers are still very high where I live, at least that is what the reports are saying.
 

easyrider

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I was messaging with a relative in Moscow and was informed that they are on lock down. His daughter has covid 19 and has started showing some symptoms. They both live in Moscow but it takes 90 minutes to travel between homes.

We have relatives that retired to the Lake Chapala area and covid 19 has just started. They are about a month behind the USA.

In my state, Washington, it looks like we may have reached the peak and may be on our way to normal.

Bill
 

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DH and I have been listening to a lot of doctors talking about Covid-19 and reading a lot about it in the past few days. The ones we've found most credible are the ones who come right out and say there is so much about Covid-19 that the doctors just don't know. That a great deal of the data the medical profession has on Covid-19 is woefully incomplete and inaccurate. That medical professionals are making educated guesses but unfortunately like anyone else doctors can make those guesses from a biased point of view.

Here is why what those doctors said about data makes sense to me. As a number of doctors have pointed out the cause of death listed often is just the end result and doesn't reflect what brought about that end result. I worked an a hospital admitting office for five years back in the 70's. Back then it was possible to learn a lot about medical conditions, treatments, etc. because of the paperwork we had access to if you were interested and I was. My father had multiple sclerosis and my boss's wife had ALS which is also known as Lou Gehrig's Disease. Typically people with MS and ALS die from pneumonia. People who are immobilized and bedridden are prone to getting pneumonia. My father had a DNR order but it still took a third bout of pneumonia in a two year period for his body to finally succumb. They would wait to see it he was beginning to recover on his own before administering antibiotics. For my boss's wife she was still able to be in a wheelchair when the first bout of pneumonia took her. When the body is taxed beyond what it can handle the heart gives out. So in cases like theirs when you see pneumonia or heart failure listed as the cause of death on a death certificate that would be incomplete and inaccurate data.
 
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