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Just purchased a Welks Timeshare 7/14/13 [similar threads merged]

Rent_Share

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Somebody has to buy at the TOP of the market
 
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csxjohn

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Somebody has to buy at the TOP of the narket
If people would wise up and not buy for tens of thousands of dollars without doing some research this nonsense would come to a screeching halt.

Of course that's a big "if" and I will never understand how people think the product is worth the price the developers are asking.

I think the younger generations are pretty savvy about checking things out on line and steer clear of TSs because of all the scam warnings out there.

The older generations for the most part, not so much. Just my opinion with nothing at all to back it up.
 

mtforeman

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Of course, if the unit is a Weeks unit in RCI, you simply get to do a one for one trade.

Through RCI, now, weeks owners are awarded trading power units (some people call these "points lite") for their deposits. They can make multiple trades using those TPU's. For example a single half of my lock off has already traded for two separate weeks, with a few TPU's left. :)

Thanks for all the other info. you shared, though! Good stuff! :)
 

SmithOp

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If people would wise up and not buy for tens of thousands of dollars without doing some research this nonsense would come to a screeching halt.

Of course that's a big "if" and I will never understand how people think the product is worth the price the developers are asking.

I think the younger generations are pretty savvy about checking things out on line and steer clear of TSs because of all the scam warnings out there.

The older generations for the most part, not so much. Just my opinion with nothing at all to back it up.
I agree on the generational difference, in some cases cognitive decline in elderly is also a factor. When we went through my fathers papers he had several "work from home" kits and was getting constant telemarketer calls. My fatherinlaw was abused financially at Chase bank, he wanted to roll over his little CD nest egg and they bamboozled him into a money market account with hefty fees and no FDIC. He told me he trusted bankers at a brick and mortar versus the online ING savings account I recommended to him. We finally settled on moving it to a credit union.

What do you think the price should be, what is a fair markup over development and sales costs?
 
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GTStone

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Responses to multiple questions

1) The property is Seapointe. Though its not "on the beach" it is right across the street. There is a narrow state park right on the beach, so we have unobstructed panoramic ocean views and it takes just a few minutes to cross the street and be on the beach itself. There are fixed and floating weeks, annual and biannual. The property sold out, but sometimes you can find a unit on the resale market. The developer is now affiliated with Hilton, and they do buy up some resales and escalate the price way out of reason, claiming its the value of the Hilton system. So, they might find a week for $9,000, buy it, and then try to resell it for $33,000. A smart shopper won't pay that, but about the best deal around for a summer week will be about $10,000 for a 1 bedroom. Its also a nice location because you can walk to the Coaster station and take it south to downtown San Diego, or North to Oceanside and then hop a metrolink to Anaheim ( Disneyland ) or LA.

2) For those of you constantly complaining about the developers, please, please, tell me how these properties would have ever been built without them ? I keep hearing that anyone who buys from a developer is stupid ! I have never had anyone yet tell me how these deals would have occurred without the original buyers getting them from developers. I also think its sad that people say they were "talked into" something. I've done "tours" and had absolutely no hesitation at saying NO.

3) Old people are not smart financially ? Wow ! I'm in that group, and I've run a profitable business for 32 years. I'm not dependent on anyone to help me out because I planned appropriately. As for the younger generation being financially savvy, that simply has not been my observation. When they get to be our age, we'll see what they say. I do know one guy who is 90 and still buys timeshares ... but they are all resales at super low prices. The one thing about our generation is we earned our money, saved it, and now can spend it to enjoy these years. Its true there are thieves out there who will seek out the elderly and prey on them, but shouldn't we go after them rather than be critical of those they victimize ?
 

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presley

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The Marbrisa will go up a lot. Also, all those properties cost over $1,000. to transfer. So, that needs to be considered along with the selling price. It might sell for $5K, but it will take another grand just for the transfer fee.

The noncoverted weeks will sell for $1.00 in off season.
 

Rent_Share

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Still 9K is not a bargain
 

GTStone

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Different perspectives

Still 9K is not a bargain
:rofl:
I wasn't looking for a bargain, but rather a specific solution. I wanted an exact week 32 ( August, and considering school schedules, useable for everyone ), at one specific location, every year ! I also wanted it for this year, so I wasn't going to hang around for something to pop up. In fact, for what I wanted, there was only one available on all the listing boards. I inquired about it, and the owner never responded. Oh, and his price was about $ 2K higher.

The properties shown didn't match that ( not even close ). So they are not "comparable". An every other year, 7 weeks later is not the same, nor is an offering at another location.

My point was, do your research, know EXACTLY what you want, and then find the best deal available.

I guess it also means something that I had the cash available to make this work. If all you can afford is $ 1, and you don't care where you go ( or you just want something to rent out ), then its probably an attractive situation to you. However, if you are looking for a place where YOU want to vacation every year, why settle for less than what you want ?
 
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csxjohn

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... So, they might find a week for $9,000, buy it, and then try to resell it for $33,000. A smart shopper won't pay that, but about the best deal around for a summer week will be about $10,000 for a 1 bedroom. ...
My point was that generally speaking the non elderly are more reliant on the Internet and would find the $9,000 unit rather than pay the $33,000.

2) For those of you constantly complaining about the developers, please, please, tell me how these properties would have ever been built without them ? I keep hearing that anyone who buys from a developer is stupid ! I have never had anyone yet tell me how these deals would have occurred without the original buyers getting them from developers....
Of course we need the developers to build and sell the properties but my problem with them is the difference they charge for timeshares compared to normal condominiums. If people would just take a deep breath and do a little math they would see that the prices for 1/50th of a unit should not cost what they are charging. This is leaving 2 wees per year for maintenance which I'm sure all developers don't do.

Take a small TS I own, only 80 units total. When sold originally I'm told around $20,000. 80 X $20,000 50 weeks comes to $80 million dollars.

Again, my problem with the developers is the exorbitant amount of money they charge.

I believe that if the cost was more in line with the real world we would not have the resale fiasco we have today, people losing tens of thousands the minute they sign the papers. If thats not a scam, what is?

3) Old people are not smart financially ? Wow ! I'm in that group, and I've run a profitable business for 32 years. I'm not dependent on anyone to help me out because I planned appropriately. As for the younger generation being financially savvy, that simply has not been my observation. When they get to be our age, we'll see what they say. I do know one guy who is 90 and still buys timeshares ... but they are all resales at super low prices. The one thing about our generation is we earned our money, saved it, and now can spend it to enjoy these years. Its true there are thieves out there who will seek out the elderly and prey on them, but shouldn't we go after them rather than be critical of those they victimize ?
If this was directed at my post I never said anything about any age group being more financially savvy than the other. Just my observation that the younger people will check things on line more than the older folks do. (I'm also in this group.)

SmithOp's father in law is a good example, trusting the brick and mortar bank without checking the good and bad about his choice and other choices when the bank obviously did not have his financial well being as the first priority.
 

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I also bought my unit at the Welk SD. They will say anything to get you to buy ( including lie) Its too bad these companies are never investigated for these practices.
 

pacodemountainside

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1)
2) For those of you constantly complaining about the developers, please, please, tell me how these properties would have ever been built without them ? I keep hearing that anyone who buys from a developer is stupid ! I have never had anyone yet tell me how these deals would have occurred without the original buyers getting them from developers. I also think its sad that people say they were "talked into" something. I've done "tours" and had absolutely no hesitation at saying NO.
Get real! If everyone was as smart as you then Developers could not get away with lies, stealing, scamming, etc. People are not "talked into" purchasing a time share, they are brutalized, lied to, shamed, defrauded, bribed, coerced, you name it.

There is no way in Hell anyone can take a $300K condo and slice it into 50 Intervals and make it worth some $1,500,000 any more than turning coal into gold. The only beneficiary is tax assessor and Developer who gets life time sweetheart management contract!

Really no different than scammer buying a shell oil, uranium, etc. company and touting stock to suckers and bailing when reality sets in.

No one can show that giveaway deals would be available if Developer had not scammed thousand of poor victims to buy something that is essentially worthless and forced to dump.. So, what is your point?

How many Tuggers can you name would purchase from a from a Developer?
Would you?


Hey, some people can afford millions for cars, paintings, sea side mansions etc. . It only costs a little more to go first class, think it was J P Morgan who said.

Or was it, where are the customer's yachts, only Developers?
 

Marilyn

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I'm astounded ( sort of ) at the prices.

I own on the SoCal coast. I have a 2 bedroom week 32 and just added a 1 bedroom ( same week ) for $ 9,000 resale. Before anyone submits that's not a good deal, I did my homework, and it was actually a very good deal. This is a property with an ocean view, beautifully maintained, very comfortable, and we are talking about a fixed summer ( highest season ) week. There are almost no units available on the independent market, and this is about as low a price as I've seen. We vacation here every year, and wanted the additional unit so our kids can now bring their families together ! ( Just pointing out how any decision should have some thinking behind it ).

For the person who wondered about trading value, I also have a floating week 2 bedroom I use for trading ( or sometimes stay at my home resort a second week ) It gets 68,500 points on RCI. I can usually take 2 or 3 vacations per year on that number of points, so trading can be quite good. You should be able to learn what the unit is worth on RCI, and then see what that will get you in trades. Don't look at the glossy catalog. Do an online search of whats available. Just because its in the book doesn't mean you will ever see it available. Of course, if the unit is a Weeks unit in RCI, you simply get to do a one for one trade.

Now to the relevant stuff regarding this post. I spent some time in Sedona at Los Abrigados last week. It costs us 18,500 points for a week, but we only stayed 3 nights. We were there 3 years ago and took the tour for some free train tickets. Of course we didn't buy but we heard lots of promises about how the new owner, Diamond International, was going to make sweeping changes. They even showed us a model of a refurbished unit. We didn't bother with the tour this time, but saw some people on it. They want in excess of $ 20,000 for their units, but you can buy resales for nearly nothing ( or just agree to take on the maintenance )! In addition, none of the promised changes have been made, and the rooms have not been refurbished. The rooms are still not good ( the kitchen area is unusable ) and the main pool was closed ( In the heat of the summer, leaving only the kids pool available). We can tell they are not doing well because the vacancy rate is high and services are very poor ( but the people at the desk always smile). Even so, the CEO of DI has a tape running all day long on the TV's ( default channel when you turn it on ) talking about how responsive they are, and all the improvements underway at their resorts. I felt sorry for the people on the sales tour because we know from experience these sales people are quite pushy. I hope they were only there to get free tickets to attractions.

So, my point in all of this is that not all places can be obtained for the $1 some people like to claim, but also most are not worth the prices the sales office would like you to pay. Nobody MAKES you buy anything, or enter into any transaction. My pat answer to a pushy sales person is "the more you try, the less likely I am to purchase what you offer. I'll go home, do some research, think about it, and get back to you." If they reply the deal is only good today, I respond, "Then your answer is a firm NO !"

Take your time, do your research, find out the current market price on the place where you want to go, and then make your decisions based only on what works for you. Also, for get all the promised extras. They are only worth the value of the paper used to print those certificates.
:banana::banana:
I hear you- years ago we bought from an owner a unit at Seacastles in Ogunquit, ME for fixed week for Labor Day. We paid $6500 and it was worth it - it is our favorite timeshare, MF are $222 a year and we go every year. It is a huge unit with a bay window and we have a dinner with a bunch of friends and everyone fits easily. We see all our family in the two weeks we are there.

We were thinking of buying a house in Maine but use TS's instead. Units are NEVER for sale at this TS for less than $12,000 or so and finding a place on the Maine Coast close to the ocean is impossible. I did a lot of research before handing over my hard earned cash. We save about $2000 a year over even hotel rooms in Ogunquit- well, decent hotel rooms anyway.

We have never regretted paying what we consider an outrageous price for a timeshare. And the MF's are soooo low. We made a very expensive vacation every year pretty reasonable. Also got an EOY at a lesser resort in the same area on Ebay for $1 with MF's of $325- hehe so it evened out. We trade in for the off year but never get Seacastles- very tough trade.

Sometimes buying what you need, at the place you want, at the time you want, is worth some extra $$. But still buy resale....hehe

Oh we also got 2 summer weeks a Surfside Capistrano, CA for wicked cheap during the real estate crash......

Marilyn
 
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Well, I went to the Welk TS Presentation in Escondido today. Went in knowing I wouldn't buy a timeshare. Heard a lot of things that sounded good. Got my gifts and then they offered an extension package plus bonuses for $200 bucks down. I knew I had a week to rescind, so I said sure why not? Anything special in order to rescind or do I just roll back up there and drop of the cancellation letter?

I was totally clueless about how timeshares worked before I went and just wanted some free baseball tickets and a couple other things they offered. No penalty to rescind right?
 

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Patri

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If you turn it over in person, you are at their mercy for a more intense sales pitch to change your mind. Prepare a written rescission and mail "return receipt requested" from home, even if you give them a letter and the materials in person.
 

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Thanks, I looked at the letter about rescinding in my contract and it says I fill it out and sign.

It says mail or deliver.

This means I can just deliver it myself correct?

I live close, so driving would probably be simpler than sending everything back.

You need proof of sending, in the case of personal delivery, that would take the form of an affidavit of service, the receipt for certified mail is simpler.

If you don't want to pay the postage on their binder, drop that off
 

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You need proof of sending, in the case of personal delivery, that would take the form of an affidavit of service, the receipt for certified mail is simpler.

If you don't want to pay the postage on their binder, drop that off
Yea, I figured about scanning all documents into my computer, and making copies of the notice of cancellation letter they included in my packet.

So I'll make copies sign one and send it off.

This is the scan of the cancellation notice they included. I just fill this out and nothing else right?

Sorry for nuking this, I just get really nervous something will go wrong.

 

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Get real! If everyone was as smart as you then Developers could not get away with lies, stealing, scamming, etc. People are not "talked into" purchasing a time share, they are brutalized, lied to, shamed, defrauded, bribed, coerced, you name it.

There is no way in Hell anyone can take a $300K condo and slice it into 50 Intervals and make it worth some $1,500,000 any more than turning coal into gold. The only beneficiary is tax assessor and Developer who gets life time sweetheart management contract!

Really no different than scammer buying a shell oil, uranium, etc. company and touting stock to suckers and bailing when reality sets in.

No one can show that giveaway deals would be available if Developer had not scammed thousand of poor victims to buy something that is essentially worthless and forced to dump.. So, what is your point?

How many Tuggers can you name would purchase from a from a Developer?
Would you?


Hey, some people can afford millions for cars, paintings, sea side mansions etc. . It only costs a little more to go first class, think it was J P Morgan who said.

Or was it, where are the customer's yachts, only Developers?
:rofl:
Seriously, I responded to this previously but it didn't stick !

Look further down this thread and you will see someone who went to the presentation wanting the give aways and absolutely no intention to buy. Then he signed a deal planning to cancel. Seriously ? Who is scamming who ?

I'm not sure where you get your numbers, but we are talking about CA coastal timeshares and you suggest an ocean front condo would go for $ 350,000 ? That's not going to happen. Not even in today's market.

Timeshares are not like condos. If I build a condo development with 50 units, I can probably close out sales on those in less than a month. That's a total of 50 transactions. In fact, in real estate we are back at lotteries for prime properties, so perhaps 80% of the potential buyers will proceed to a closing. In addition, the marketing costs for those condos will be very minimal.

Timeshares are fractional ownerships. A developer will have 2600 "units" to market and sell with the same 50 "condos". By the nature of the product, they are lucky to have a 5% or less conversion rate. However, each prospect that comes in wants to walk away with "free goodies" and that amounts to about $ 100 / person who visits ( Which is over $ 5,000,000 in incentives alone). They have to employ phone staff to arrange appointments, credit checkers to validate qualified buyers, sales people to discuss the property and its merits, and so much more. The time frame is not weeks or months, but years. The developer must also pay the management costs for all 2600 units until they are sold. They also have to pay off the construction loan(s) and the property purchase, plus all ongoing taxes. In addition, like a hotel, there are far more amenities and infrastructure costs associated with a timeshare than with a condo.

Is there a profit in all this ? Of course, just like in any business that wants to succeed, but its not as huge as some of you would like to imagine. Are some units overpriced ? Yes, but prices are negotiable. Are some sales people out of line ? Sure. However there are also some very honest reps and some very good companies.

As for the final question, do I know people who willingly buy from a developer, the answer is Yes. An informed consumer who understands real estate, the market, the offering, and their budget will not necessarily eliminate a developer as a possible resource if the price is right. Some of us have actually developed close relationships with some sales reps who cut all the nonsense out of the discussion and work out a fair and reasonable offering.

Finally, the original premise of developers was that a well managed timeshare, like other real estate, should increase in value over time. If you own some timeshares, at any price, your focus on pushing the market to $1 properties actually destroys the value of your investment. To me, that is not smart money management.
 
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