Just Purchased 3500 Points in MVCI - Have Questions

[cp73]

I cannot get past the concept of paying so much money for the points PLUS paying annual maintenance fees on top of that when we can stay at a Marriott property for 5 or so days for +/- the cost of the maintenance fees.....

NYFL you hit the nail on the head. It is tough to get past this point. It will never make financial sense to do this. Don't even consider taking out a loan to do it. Rescind and think it through. You can always jump back in. There is no shortage of points or timeshares to buy. No hurry at all.

 

[GregT]

I cannot get past the concept of paying so much money for the points PLUS paying annual maintenance fees on top of that when we can stay at a Marriott property for 5 or so days for +/- the cost of the maintenance fees..... That is what is troubling me most. What is the benefit of being part of the "club"?

A big reason to favor a timeshare over staying at a Marriott property for 5 or so days (assuming you're referring to a hotel?) is that there is a much higher cost for food/laundry with the hotel (and less space -- which is tough to value).

If you are referring to renting a timeshare week from an owner, than I agree, the cash cost simply become the easiest comparison of rental cost versus the MFs. Many timeshares (including Marriotts) can be rented for the same as MFs, or nominally more than MFs -- so why own them? (that is worthy of a different thread, and there are good answers for ownership, IMO).

But these arguments support your concern that being in the Club doesn't appear to have any intrinsic value in its own right. What intrinsic value there is comes in the form of convenience (primarily personal control over the reservation) versus any traditional financial value.

Resale purchases are where financial value (if there is any, in the timeshare world) starts to become relevant. But even resale purchases of Trust Points are expensive. Fundamentally, the Marriott point system is an expensive way to vacation -- a wonderful way, to be sure but so is simply paying cash for everything. Expensive, but wonderful.

The way my timeshares make financial sense for me (again, if that concept is possible) is that I've figured out to maximize each system -- I've bought systems that can be acquired on the resale market inexpensively, and I've studied the systems to usually be able to get the prime reservation I want.

Marriott doesn't let the resale purchaser do this -- points are simply expensive to use (because you need a lot of them for a prime 2BR), and the fees make them expensive to purchase.

It is not dissimilar to the premiums associated with a fixed week -- I paid a big premium to have a fixed week at MOC, because of the convenience of not having to be on the phone line at 6am and hoping my week would be there (and I also wanted a 3BR).

Points are similar -- there is a premium associated with the convenience. If you are looking for a cost effective alternative to hotels, then I think you should focus on that, and realize the answer may not be Marriott DC points. I hope this helps?

Best,

Greg

 

[Venter]

Another system?

As mentioned by GREGT another system might make more sense if convenience and cost effectiveness matters. I love Marriott resorts and feel bad for recommending any other system but of late I have looked at HGVC. They are building a couple of new resorts, have affiliates and you can either book your week or use points. Mostly people seemed satisfied to get what they want even using points for other resorts at 10 months out. They do however trade through RCI to other systems but best of all they are still available almost like for like resale.

Have a look over on the HGVC board.

 

[SkyBlueWaters]

As mentioned by GREGT another system might make more sense if convenience and cost effectiveness matters. I love Marriott resorts and feel bad for recommending any other system but of late I have looked at HGVC. They are building a couple of new resorts, have affiliates and you can either book your week or use points. Mostly people seemed satisfied to get what they want even using points for other resorts at 10 months out. They do however trade through RCI to other systems but best of all they are still available almost like for like resale.

Have a look over on the HGVC board.

Are you saying there are no restrictions on HGVC resales? I'm interested in acquiring in a system that has properties in NYC.

Sorry for hijacking this thread but perhaps NYFL will benefit from the information you share.

 

[GregT]

Are you saying there are no restrictions on HGVC resales? I'm interested in acquiring in a system that has properties in NYC.

Sorry for hijacking this thread but perhaps NYFL will benefit from the information you share.

No the NYC properties in HGVC have lots of restrictions. I don't even think of them as being part of HGVC.

The rest of HGVC rocks!

Best,

Greg

 

[pwrshift]

I'll add myself to the rescind list.

Brian

 

[NYFLTRAVELER]

Thank you all for your advice. We are going to rescind at this time and continue to research and explore and perhaps pickup a MVCI Destinations Club points package via resale.

I know that there are fees associated with that ($200 per 250 points, $300 education fee) but if we went that route through a legit reseller can save $.

New question is what is a fair resale market purchase price for 3500 trust points in your opinion?

Thanks again to all.

SBD

 

[davidvel]

Thank you all for your advice. We are going to rescind at this time and continue to research and explore and perhaps pickup a MVCI Destinations Club points package via resale.

I know that there are fees associated with that ($200 per 250 points, $300 education fee) but if we went that route through a legit reseller can save $.

New question is what is a fair resale market purchase price for 3500 trust points in your opinion?

Thanks again to all.

SBD

Congratulations! As many have said, you have nothing to lose by rescinding, but lots to (potentially) lose by not doing so. Haven't read through all the posts but you can search for rescind and find lots of info: rescind in writing pursuant to the contract. Don't call and don't take calls from your sales person.

Think about the $30,000+ you just saved, the $1,000 per year in ROI you could easily earn on that money, the $1,700+ in MF per year you saved, and what you could get directly from Marriott.com at any resort for all that $$ over 30 years (at your choice) vs. what you could have reserved with 3500 pts.

 

[Beefnot]

New question is what is a fair resale market purchase price for 3500 trust points in your opinion?

I think I read in a recent thread that Marriott is ROFRing under $5 a point or something like that. So anything north of this would be a good entry point. Might be difficult to get a good gauge on fair resale price given the newness of the DC program.

 

[Venter]

Nearly none

Are you saying there are no restrictions on HGVC resales? I'm interested in acquiring in a system that has properties in NYC.

Sorry for hijacking this thread but perhaps NYFL will benefit from the information you share.

Not no restrictions but use wise there are none. The only things that are not like for like are things like Elite status etc. that really only should make a difference when staying in their hotels.

NYC properties unfortunately as GregT have mentioned are different but that is it really.

 

[m61376]

I'll just add one suggestion to the ones already posted here- which may or may not be worth considering. I know you've nixed the concept of trading, etc., so aren't looking at buying a resale week. But, depending n your needs (unit size, destinations and time of travel) trading in II might be a relatively easy and much cheaper way to enter the market, at any extent. Esp. if you don't need 2BR and/or prime time all the time. And even if you do, don't underestimate the trade power of some relatively inexpensive weeks- like some of the 3BR's esp.; size of unit is a biggie in II.

Anyway, as you do your research, you may want to at least look into this before simply dismissing it. The DC has its pluses, but it is still subject to availability.

 

[jont]

Congrats on a wise move and good luck moving forward.

 

[cp73]

I'll just add one suggestion to the ones already posted here- which may or may not be worth considering. I know you've nixed the concept of trading, etc., so aren't looking at buying a resale week. But, depending n your needs (unit size, destinations and time of travel) trading in II might be a relatively easy and much cheaper way to enter the market, at any extent. Esp. if you don't need 2BR and/or prime time all the time. And even if you do, don't underestimate the trade power of some relatively inexpensive weeks- like some of the 3BR's esp.; size of unit is a biggie in II.

Anyway, as you do your research, you may want to at least look into this before simply dismissing it. The DC has its pluses, but it is still subject to availability.

I couldn't agree more that what m61376 suggested. I dont think anyone on this board has determined that trading with points is any easier than trading a week in II. In both cases its all about availability. You definately will save some money on the purchase price and by purchasing one with a lockout you can get two weeks out of one. Also if you have the ability to travel with less than 90 days advance notice you can trade your lock off unit or one bedroom unit for a two bedroom unit. The weeks system to me seems to give you the most bang for your buck.

 

[live4life]

To rescind or not rescind? ... that is the TimeshareanI newbie question. I was in your shoes NYFLTRAVELLER. A friend of mine was already a weeks owner in 2008 and was telling me of the benefits. Then, the GREAT Recession hit! I saw all of the TS owners dumping their weeks on the various sites- and frankly, I got spooked and did nothing. I went down to Florida from up North and stayed at the Grande Vista for a night and Oceana Palms for another night in Feb. 2010 while en route to Marco Island- just to get a feel for TS and IT WAS FABULOUS.

I debated to either buy fixed weeks or DC points. I elected DP points considering "everyone" was dumping their weeks for peanuts to what they originally paid for them. WHEN I BOUGHT THE DC points, I was at the rescind tunnel- I went back and forth in my mind (recall the song, "Should I stay or should I go now" - it came out in the 80s) well, I was nervous shelling all that money when the DC pgm came out. Would I rescind now? (somedays yes [the MF of my 3k points is more than what its worth], somedays no [due to the flexibility of having <7 days of usage]).

After I bought the 3k points, I bought two Marriott resale weeks on the market for a fraction of the cost to what people paid for them. So alothough those weeks are currently ineligible to be in the DP program, I either use them, lock them off (get two weeks out of them), or trade them. So basically, i'm in botth program.

If I were to "do it all over again," i would rescind. I would RENT a week somewhere I'd like to take the family from redweek OR rent Marriott DP points from Greg T's website and see what that experience is like. Do that for two vacations/two years. Get acquainted with TUG. NOTE: that as a potential member of the DP pgm, you ability to find premium spots with 3500 points is limited (due to the availibilitry of the resorts, availability to our status of having less than Premium or Premium Plus ownership, etc.).

Don't hesitate to ask more questions... Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[NYFLTRAVELER]

Letters to Rescind went out this afternoon.

Will keep monitoring and if I can find a good resale situation I may look into that.

 

[dioxide45]

Thank you all for your advice. We are going to rescind at this time and continue to research and explore and perhaps pickup a MVCI Destinations Club points package via resale.

I know that there are fees associated with that ($200 per 250 points, $300 education fee) but if we went that route through a legit reseller can save $.

New question is what is a fair resale market purchase price for 3500 trust points in your opinion?

Thanks again to all.

SBD

There are some other fees, though not substantial by comparison.

ROFR Fee = $95
Transfer Fee $25 per 250 points (BI)

 

[SueDonJ]

There are some other fees, though not substantial by comparison.

ROFR Fee = $95
Transfer Fee $25 per 250 points (BI)

Has there ever been an explanation of why Marriott is charging the same $95 ROFR fee for Points that they charge for Weeks, when the DC governing docs allow for as much as $1.00/point for ROFR on Points resales?

 

[dioxide45]

Has there ever been an explanation of why Marriott is charging the same $95 ROFR fee for Points that they charge for Weeks, when the DC governing docs allow for as much as $1.00/point for ROFR on Points resales?

Not that I am aware of. It seems from prior reports that they are only charging the $95 per deed but as you indicate can charge way more than that. I also find it odd that they charge $25 per BI even though all BIs are on a single deed

 

[jimf41]

Has there ever been an explanation of why Marriott is charging the same $95 ROFR fee for Points that they charge for Weeks, when the DC governing docs allow for as much as $1.00/point for ROFR on Points resales?

They do charge $.80 per point. One BI of 250 points costs $200 to transfer with a $2000 minimum. 200/250=.80. They just call it by a different name.

 

[jimf41]

I dont think anyone on this board has determined that trading with points is any easier than trading a week in II.

I'll have to take exception to this. Trading with points is not only easier it's possible in cases where trading with weeks is impossible.

Every year I convert my 3 silver and 1 plat week at Ocean Pointe into DC points. I then use the points to line up with the 2 weeks at Frenchmans Cove for a four week stay every year with no overlapping checkin days. There are points left over and those I use to go back to Ocean Pointe EOY during Gold season for four weeks at once all with the same checkin day.

This is simply an impossible trade with II. I do it every year at the 13/12 month mark with no real problems. The trade back into Ocean Pointe is especially hard with weeks because I can't just take any week in Gold season. I have to coordinate the vacation schedules and school vacation dates of four different families. It gets narrowed down to the 2nd and 3rd week in July. No other dates will suffice.

For those who think it's possible to do this in II try this experiment. Call an II rep and tell them you want four weeks in July next year at Ocean Pointe. Only a Saturday or Sunday checkin is acceptable but it must be the same checkin day for all rooms. Then say that you want a 3bdrm, two 2bdrms and a 1 bdrm all ocean front rooms.

Be prepared to wait a few minutes for the laughter to die down. Then tell the rep that you want to use some silver weeks at Ocean Pointe to trade into Frenchmans Cove in February and the weeks have to line up with the weeks you already own there.

The rep won't laugh this time they'll probably just assume this was a crank call and hang up.

 

[jont]

Very impressive Jim. Great use of points!

 

[SueDonJ]

They do charge $.80 per point. One BI of 250 points costs $200 to transfer with a $2000 minimum. 200/250=.80. They just call it by a different name.

But that's a separate fee from the ROFR fee. The docs say that the Initiation Fee is $200/BI ($2,000 min) and the ROFR fee is $1.00/Point. So they're charging the Initiation Fee and $25.00/BI Transfer Fee as they're stipulated, but are reducing the ROFR fee way down to the single-transaction amount that they're charging for Weeks. I'm just wondering if they've ever explained why.

 

[Bill4728]

Originally Posted by cp73 View Post
I dont think anyone on this board has determined that trading with points is any easier than trading a week in II.

I'll have to take exception to this. Trading with points is not only easier it's possible in cases where trading with weeks is impossible.

Every year I convert my 3 silver and 1 plat week at Ocean Pointe into DC points. I then use the points to line up with the 2 weeks at Frenchmans Cove for a four week stay every year with no overlapping checkin days. There are points left over and those I use to go back to Ocean Pointe EOY during Gold season for four weeks at once all with the same checkin day.

This is simply an impossible trade with II. I do it every year at the 13/12 month mark with no real problems. The trade back into Ocean Pointe is especially hard with weeks because I can't just take any week in Gold season. I have to coordinate the vacation schedules and school vacation dates of four different families. It gets narrowed down to the 2nd and 3rd week in July. No other dates will suffice.

For those who think it's possible to do this in II try this experiment. Call an II rep and tell them you want four weeks in July next year at Ocean Pointe. Only a Saturday or Sunday checkin is acceptable but it must be the same checkin day for all rooms. Then say that you want a 3bdrm, two 2bdrms and a 1 bdrm all ocean front rooms.

Be prepared to wait a few minutes for the laughter to die down. Then tell the rep that you want to use some silver weeks at Ocean Pointe to trade into Frenchmans Cove in February and the weeks have to line up with the weeks you already own there.

The rep won't laugh this time they'll probably just assume this was a crank call and hang up.

There is a big difference between using your DC points to make a reservation within the DC and making a trade with DC pts in II.

Making reservations with DC points to the resorts in the DC is clearly much easier than finding trades in II.

BUT I agree that making an II trade is about the same in weeks & with DC points.

The only real difference I see is that I can often find huge "trade ups" in II weeks that would not be possible with points. I can trade a silver season -1bd at my whistler resort for a 2 bd at the westins or marriott resorts in Hawaii pretty easily. If I did the same trade using points (either DC pts or my Club intrawest pts), the number of points needed to make those trades would be 3 times what I used to reserve that 1 bd whistler week.

 

[live4life]

Good for you NYFLTraveller!!! Sit back and enjoy your vacations while reading TUG. Once you've acquired all the angles to approach your family vacations (DP, re-sale weeks, II, combos, or whatever) then take the plunge. It appears from everyone's take from your initial inquest is that every individual situation is different. Choose what's best for you and your family.

good luck