Just got ripped off buying Hilton Grand Vacations!!

[kwilson]

If nobody ever bought from a developer where do you think they would sell them?
That is, of course , if they even built them.

I am amused that us TUGers think that buying a timeshare from a developer is a rip-off. The fact is buying from a developer still has value. Just imagine that if no one ever bought from a developer there would be no bargains to be had on TUG, eBay, or anywhere else. .

 

[am1]

That's all changed.


There were some TUG-BBS discussion topics within the past couple of years launched by people trying (a) to show how units bought from timeshare companies could & should be better than resales & (b) to figure some way of seeing to it that resale buyers would always be 2d class citz. in comparison with full freight owners. I don't think anybody got convinced.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

Wyndham VIP tries to do that as best it can.

 

[timeos2]

I am amused that us TUGers think that buying a timeshare from a developer is a rip-off. The fact is buying from a developer still has value. Just imagine that if no one ever bought from a developer there would be no bargains to be had on TUG, eBay, or anywhere else. Now don’t get me wrong, I would never buy another timeshare from a developer but I have had mine for about 25 years and it definitely has had value. What I would be more concerned about, whether purchasing from a developer or third party is the maintenance fees. I have seen some really exorbitant fees and this really is a value destroyer.

The fact is that today a retail purchase is a guaranteed way to lose 50%+ (usually MUCH more) 7-10 days after you buy. No other purchase results in such a dramatic & immediate loss of value. Thus any Developer purchase is a mistake at best and a scam at the worst.

If there were never another timeshare unit built there would still be no end to available inventory via resale. Losing new development and the associated inflated expense is not a loss to the buying public. In fact it would likely be a big gain. The days of "needing" timeshare units is far behind us. The market, as small as it really is, was saturated many years ago. There is no worry about the need to buy retail for anyone.

 

[Pietin]

We bought our first timeshare at thorough a developer in 97, upward of 7k for eoy. We bought our first timeshare resale off an auction site 98, 2 bedrooms in for about $200 out the door. Everything after that was resale.

Wyndham VIP tries to do that as best it can.

Wyndham does a good job treating us as a resale owner. I have never been made to feel like a second class owner by the resort staff or at the corporate level. I can't say that about other resale properties I owned. That why we only own Wyndham points now, although, I have been thinking about HGVC.

The only thing I miss by not having VIP is guess certificates. In the process of getting Glacier Canyon points now, ebay. For all that is said about Wyndham, I still think they are pretty good at what they do and am happy to be an owner with them.

Now the sales staff is another story - treated like 3rd class owner because all we have is resale but that's ok, I know what I paid for my points.

 

[Rent_Share]

Wyndham does a good job treating us as a resale owner. I have never been made to feel like a second class owner by the resort staff or at the corporate level. I can't say that about other resale properties I owned.

Now the sales staff is another story - treated like 3rd class owner because all we have is resale but that's ok, I know what I paid for my points.

What Brand and/or department treated you differently as a resale owner ? They deserve to be exposed

 

[Pietin]

We owned at Life Time of Vacations at Grand Lakes in Florida for a while. We had the opportunity of staying at the resort, and at check-in and was reminded that we were a resale and had to go to an owner update (sales) presentation at a sister resort. This was the worst sale presentation we had ever gone to; it had to be every bit of 4 hours of saying “NO”. This was back in 2000 or so, before we knew about TUG and such user groups and before we knew we could leave a presentation (younger then too). We felt like they zeroed in on us because we were resale. The second time we stayed we just refused to go to the update, even though they told us it was mandatory for all resale owners. We got a phone call each day in the morning and when we went to the front desk they would remind us of this requirement. We stop picking up the phone or going to the front desk.

We were also treated extremely badly by the management group for this resort; it was one of the smaller resorts the group managed. Just about every time we call for something they would remind us that we bought resale and they, in not so many words, were doing us a favor by answering our phone call. We had problems from them crediting our account for MF to having our reservation in for a fixed week to finally RCI deposits. We owned there for over three years and donated that timeshare to get out of it.

We been doing Wyndham for about 5 years now and it works great for us. We may do Disney or HGVC for a little variety and if we can find them in our price range but that will have to wait till next year. We have yet to use the Wyndham to exchange via RCI haven't found the need.

Steve

 

[Rent_Share]

For that type of treatment they DO DERSERVE to be called out by name.

Life Time of Vacations at Grand Lakes

Tug Rating 4.9

 

[BJRSanDiego]

Help!! I ... stupidly bought a 5000 point per year package at SeaWorld FL for $25,000 + $997/yr maintenance!! ... I haven't had time to open the package or read the contract...

I hoping that Rohnin (the OP) lets us know what he/she ultimately did.

On II's Community (which is a posting forum), they keep track of whether the responses have been read by the OP. I am sometimes very surprised when people post their problems (that are often times the result of not having done any of their homework) and who then don't bother to check back and read the (usually) well-meaning suggestions/solutions.

I'm hoping that Rohnin has "had the time" to read the posts and has recinded. Rohnin: what happened?

 

[Egret1986]

Yeah, I always wonder when the OP doesn't come back....

I hoping that Rohnin (the OP) lets us know what he/she ultimately did.

On II's Community (which is a posting forum), they keep track of whether the responses have been read by the OP. I am sometimes very surprised when people post their problems (that are often times the result of not having done any of their homework) and who then don't bother to check back and read the (usually) well-meaning suggestions/solutions.

I'm hoping that Rohnin has "had the time" to read the posts and has recinded. Rohnin: what happened?

....so, what happened? The OP was too busy to read the Contract. Hopefully, the reason they haven't posted again is because they are too busy rescinding their purchase. It would be nice to hear "we did it; we rescinded."

 

[Ron98GT]

Sorry if I offend anyone, BUT I find the title of this thread very offensive every time I see this post: "ripped off buying Hilton".

The OP purchased retail. They bought the TS from HGVC and paid a retail price. You may FEEL that you got ripped off (I probably would in your shoes), but HGVC didn't rip you off. They legally offered to sell you a product that they own and you legally purchased it. You could have said no. You could have negotiated a better price. You could have done your due diligence. You could have canceled the contract during the rescission period. You could have ... But HGVC didn't Rip You Off. IF they did, you could file a complaint and they COULD lose their license to sell real property, which is what you purchased: 1/52nd of that condo unit. But they didn't rip you off. You over-paid.

Sorry for ranting.

I'll take two pills and take a nap.

 

[Rent_Share]

If he paid full price he was ripped off, when you buy a car the used cars are for sale at the same location

 

[AwayWeGo]

There Is No Such Thing As A New Timeshare.

If he paid full price he was ripped off, when you buy a car the used cars are for sale at the same location

By me, nothing that the timeshare companies sell at full freight is worth the money. That said, ripoff is in the eye of the beholder.

Unlike new & used cars, however, there is no such thing as a new timeshare.

Full freight or resale or giveaway mox nix, by the time the timeshare owner shows up & checks in, other people will have previously been staying right there in the owner's very same unit.

That's used-used-used any way you shake it.

Just 1 more reason it makes no sense to pay new prices for timeshares.

They flat-out aren't new no matter how high or how low the price.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Egret1986]

I don't see your post as a rant

Sorry if I offend anyone, BUT I find the title of this thread very offensive every time I see this post: "ripped off buying Hilton".

The OP purchased retail. They bought the TS from HGVC and paid a retail price. You may FEEL that you got ripped off (I probably would in your shoes), but HGVC didn't rip you off. They legally offered to sell you a product that they own and you legally purchased it. You could have said no. You could have negotiated a better price. You could have done your due diligence. You could have canceled the contract during the rescission period. You could have ... But HGVC didn't Rip You Off. IF they did, you could file a complaint and they COULD lose their license to sell real property, which is what you purchased: 1/52nd of that condo unit. But they didn't rip you off. You over-paid.

Sorry for ranting.

I'll take two pills and take a nap.

Everything you stated is correct. The OP had options that they didn't exercise. They also had the final option to rescind in the specified time frame and hopefully did what was necessary to get out of the Contract that they signed.

 

[rleigh]

RE:Originally Posted by Ron98GT
Sorry if I offend anyone, BUT I find the title of this thread very offensive every time I see this post: "ripped off buying Hilton".




The OP felt they were ripped off based on what they were told at the presentation and comparable after-market product and prices. Eye of the beholder, indeed. I think it's ok to come here and vent. But I'm new so maybe I am wrong.

 

[Ron98GT]

If he paid full price he was ripped off, when you buy a car the used cars are for sale at the same location

If your stupid enough to walk into a car dealer and pay sticker price or more, without any negotiation, and without looking at what the sale price should be: were you ripped off or just stupid and too lazy to price shop.

There is a reason all 50 states require a rescission be added to the TS contract. If a buyer doesn't read the contract and doesn't utilize the rescission, were they ripped off or just plain stupid and too lazy to read the contract and ask questions.

From what I've seen and heard, Hilton, Marriott, and Starwood don't utilize the hardcore closing techniques that most of the other TS companies use.

I just have a problem with the chose of words used. Normally a person coming onto this board will ask:

1. Did I over pay?
2. Can I cancel?
3. Help

etc.

Not as overpowering and demanding here as they should have been in the TS presentation.

Whenever I see the title of this post, I think that the buyer bought resale, whereas it is easy to get ripped off.

I'm out of tacos and tequila, so I'm going to quit rambling and move on

 

[RX8]

If your stupid enough to walk into a car dealer and pay sticker price or more, without any negotiation, and without looking at what the sale price should be: were you ripped off or just stupid and too lazy to price shop.

There is a reason all 50 states require a rescission be added to the TS contract. If a buyer doesn't read the contract and doesn't utilize the rescission, were they ripped off or just plain stupid and too lazy to read the contract and ask questions.

From what I've seen and heard, Hilton, Marriott, and Starwood don't utilize the hardcore closing techniques that most of the other TS companies use.

I just have a problem with the chose of words used. Normally a person coming onto this board will ask:

1. Did I over pay?
2. Can I cancel?
3. Help

etc.

Not as overpowering and demanding here as they should have been in the TS presentation.

Whenever I see the title of this post, I think that the buyer bought resale, whereas it is easy to get ripped off.

I'm out of tacos and tequila, so I'm going to quit rambling and move on

Have another margarita!

I have to agree with you. Was this purchase a good deal for the OP? Absolutely NOT. However, that doesn't make it a rip off. A TS purchaser has a legal RIGHT to review their contract and do as much RESEARCH as they want AFTER their purchase. If one decides that they don't like the terms simply RESCIND the contract within the state's legal period (also spelled out in the contract) and get a full refund. This is the world of retail timeshares. Not a good buy but not all of the sellers are simply trying to rip you off. The buyer is in control to decide what they want to do well AFTER the purchase. If one doesn't want to read their contract whose fault is that?

As for the vehicle purchase reference, the primary difference between the car and timeshare is that there is NO RIGHT TO RESCIND the vehicle after you sign the paperwork (at least in my state).

 

[presley]

Interesting, the title has always bothered me, too. If it said that he felt like he was ripped off, I could take it easier. To come out and say HGVC ripped him off makes it sound like he was baited and switched or that an employee stole something from him.

 

[jlf58]

Its pretty simple, lots of people don't take responsibility for thier actions. In this case it was much easier to blame Hilton then himself.

 

[AwayWeGo]

I Resemble That Remark.

Its pretty simple, lots of people don't take responsibility for thier actions.

These spoons & forks are making me fat.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[csxjohn]

Interesting, the title has always bothered me, too. If it said that he felt like he was ripped off, I could take it easier. To come out and say HGVC ripped him off makes it sound like he was baited and switched or that an employee stole something from him.

Its pretty simple, lots of people don't take responsibility for thier actions. In this case it was much easier to blame Hilton then himself.

I disagree and I feel the title is correct.

If the OP was told this is an investment, he was lied to. If he was lied to he was "ripped off."

What bothers me is he has not come back to let us know what happened. So far he has ripped us off by asking for our time and not getting back to us.

 

[AKE]

The OP felt they were ripped off based on what they were told at the presentation and comparable after-market product and prices. Eye of the beholder, indeed. I think it's ok to come here and vent. But I'm new so maybe I am wrong.

No matter how you look at it, buying a timeshare from a developer is not a good financial undertaking and just because its a name-brand developer does not make it any different. However, people do get caught up in the heat of the moment and buy without doing due dilligence. When calmer minds prevail and rational thinking returns, the purchase is often viewed as a rip-off.

We bought retail the first time around($9.7K for a 3 br lock-off in the early 90's). The next year we split our unit into 2 and deposited it with RCI, exchanging into Hawaii (gold crown resorts) for 2 weeks at Christmas. If we had stayed at a hotel with 3 kids we would have needed 2 rooms and had to eat out. Even using a run-of-the-mill hotel and eating at McDonalds most times, we would have spent in the neighbourhood of $4k ... my out-of-pocket costs for the trip were 2 exchange fees and food from the grocery store (around $500 in total). Year after that we went again to Hawaii, then Key West, and on and on. Within 5 years we had spent way less vacationing this way than if we had stayed in hotels. Just out of curiosity I have tracked our timeshare vacations for 20+ years. Including maintenance fees and what we originally paid for our unit, it has worked out to way less than $100/night. So even paying developer prices, we are still ahead and the quality of accomodations was way superior to what we normally could have afforded.

That being said, this is not the only 'rip-off' by any means. How many people bought encyclopedias some years ago at $3K+ a set? what about vacuum cleaners for $2K? I know a number of people who bought these and they are intelligent people!

 

[Beefnot]

The fact is that today a retail purchase is a guaranteed way to lose 50%+ (usually MUCH more) 7-10 days after you buy. No other purchase results in such a dramatic & immediate loss of value.

Sure there are, breast pumps.

 

[Beefnot]

I disagree and I feel the title is correct.

If the OP was told this is an investment, he was lied to. If he was lied to he was "ripped off."

What bothers me is he has not come back to let us know what happened. So far he has ripped us off by asking for our time and not getting back to us.

It is easy, even for those who at some point in the past themselves purchased retail, to get all self righteous and preaching down. Many people succumb to high pressure sales tactics, which often contain misrepresentations and/or flat out lies. We can be semantic about how to label it, but it is still unethical as far as I am concerned. Does the OP bear responsibility for purchasing something in a boiler room under dubious pretenses? Sure. Does that also justify the condescending remarks? Not so much. Hopefully he did not get run-off and will return with testimonial to the outcome.

 

[Beefnot]

Very well said and entirely true --- but beware of armchair critics and self-appointed "evaluators" here who will lamely attempt to label you as a "master of the obvious", offering nothing of any substance themselves but nonetheless boosting their post count by criticizing your well intentiond and truthful input...

You miss the point, not that you are one for nuance. Tone and word choice can be every bit as, if not more, important as truth, depending on the outcome and sentiment one wishes to elicit from another.

 

[sjuhawk_jd]

OP has been so busy writing letter to HGVC for the last 4 days that he/she did not even find any time to report back here, or thank the TUG community :annoyed: