Just attended owner's presentation-Salesperson stated all my Club Points I elect are almost worthless UNLESS I buy Club Points as a hybrid system?!?!

[skibummer]

I just attended a sales presentation at SDO (one of the more miserable ones I have ever experienced). I am Chairman's Club and I own only in the Vistana system (no native Marriott ownership). Almost all of my purchases were mandatory resales except for a couple of developer purchases to authorize/qualify some voluntary properties such as Westin Lagunamar. I do not own a flex week product such as Westin or Sheraton Flex. I only own actual deeded weeks in the Vistana system. The main questions for the group/forum is that he told me if I elect Abound/Club Points for my deeded weeks I will have little to no (<10%) actual Marriott inventory to choose from because I will be stuck with only the legacy weeks Marriott inventory, not the main bucket (90+%) of Marriott inventory from Club Points owners. He said the only way to have access to ALL of the inventory is to purchase Abound Points which would create a "linkage" as a hybrid ownership (legacy weeks from Vistana and owning Abound Points from Marriott).

He said Marriott only sells Abound Points in a minimum of 2,500 Abound Points, but through the end of 2022 ONLY I could get the "special deal" of just having to buy 1,000 Abound Points for $15,000. This would allow me to have access to all the Marriott inventory. Can forum members (Denise?) comment on what he is saying. I'm looking for answers and clarification on what inventory I have access to electing Club Points (Abound)? If it truly is just residual legacy weeks inventory then that sounds like a scam. I called BS on his story. I told him he was either ignorant and and wrong or just lying and neither helped me at that point, and he got mad and walked out. Ended my update only 30 min in. Thanks in advance for comments and clarifications from what others have heard.

 

[sponger76]

The main questions for the group/forum is that he told me if I elect Abound/Club Points for my deeded weeks I will have little to no (<10%) actual Marriott inventory to choose from because I will be stuck with only the legacy weeks Marriott inventory, not the main bucket (90+%) of Marriott inventory from Club Points owners. He said the only way to have access to ALL of the inventory is to purchase Abound Points which would create a "linkage" as a hybrid ownership (legacy weeks from Vistana and owning Abound Points from Marriott).

Simply not true. The only Abound points I have access to are via my Vistana ownership. I have been able to see lots of Marriott inventory in Abound, and it doesn't seem to be only inventory elected by legacy weeks owners.

The bigger problem is the current state of their website. Actually being able to log in and search has been up and down, lately almost completely down. But when I can search, I can see inventory.

 

[vacationtime1]

Same old lies, over and over.

 

[DanCali]

I just attended a sales presentation at SDO (one of the more miserable ones I have ever experienced). I am Chairman's Club and I own only in the Vistana system (no native Marriott ownership). Almost all of my purchases were mandatory resales except for a couple of developer purchases to authorize/qualify some voluntary properties such as Westin Lagunamar. I do not own a flex week products such as Westin or Sheraton Flex. I only own actual deeded weeks in the Vistana system. The main questions for the group/forum is that he told me if I elect Abound/Club Points for my deeded weeks I will have little to no (<10%) actual Marriott inventory to choose from because I will be stuck with only the legacy weeks Marriott inventory, not the main bucket (90+%) of Marriott inventory from Club Points owners. He said the only way to have access to ALL of the inventory is to purchase Abound Points which would create a "linkage" as a hybrid ownership (legacy weeks from Vistana and owning Abound Points from Marriott).

He said Marriott only sells Abound Points in a minimum of 2,500 Abound Points, but through the end of 2022 ONLY I could get the "special deal" of just having to buy 1,000 Abound Points for $15,000. This would allow me to have access to all the Marriott inventory. Can forum members (Denise?) comment on what he is saying. I'm looking for answers and clarification on what inventory I have access to electing Club Points (Abound)? If it truly is just residual legacy weeks inventory then that sounds like a scam. Thanks in advance for comments and clarifications from what others have heard.

They've been peddling that pitch to Marriott owners since 2010. Now they have a fresh flock to try it on. Don't fall for it.

Here are some samples from over the years... enjoy the read!

2022: https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/is-it-worth-it-to-buy-into-the-trust-points.338150/

2021: https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/trust-dp-versus-exchange-legacy-points-in-the-destination-club.319886/

2017: https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/enrolled-versus-trust-inventory-availability.259184/

2015: https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/ko-olina-sales-presentation.225293/

2013: https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/canyon-villas-presentation-points-question.201739/

 

[WahooWah]

Honestly, when this type of thing happens you should ask for the salesperson's license number, then ask them to put it in writing. If they can't put it in writing, make a formal complaint to the state's licensing authority. Most states require a licensee to have a pocket license on them when they are working.

 

[Eric B]

Honestly, when this type of thing happens you should ask for the salesperson's license number, then ask them to put it in writing. If they can't put it in writing, make a formal complaint to the state's licensing authority. Most states (if not all of them) require a licensee to have a pocket license on them when they are working.

A timeshare sales license? Is that like a used car sales license?

 

[skibummer]

They've been peddling that pitch to Marriott owners since 2010. Now they have a fresh flock to try it on. Don't fall for it.

Here are some samples from over the years... enjoy the read!

2022: https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/is-it-worth-it-to-buy-into-the-trust-points.338150/

2021: https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/trust-dp-versus-exchange-legacy-points-in-the-destination-club.319886/

2017: https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/enrolled-versus-trust-inventory-availability.259184/

2015: https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/ko-olina-sales-presentation.225293/

2013: https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/canyon-villas-presentation-points-question.201739/

Nothing he said passed the ”smell test”. I’m glad I called him out on in and the above links confirm my suspicions. He also tried to tell me that all the Marriott owners were going to take all my deeded week inventory from me and others regardless of whether we elected for Club Points or not. I laughed and said this wasn’t my first rodeo, but nice try. Thank you for the knowledge links.

 

[sponger76]

A timeshare sales license? Is that like a used car sales license?

Timeshare License Requirements By State | Advantage Vacation Timeshare Resales

 

[daviator]

After two decades of timeshare presentations, I still don’t get the lying. Once you tell me one thing that I know to be a lie, I’m going to then disbelieve everything else you say, because the only thing I know with certainty is that you are a liar.

I might buy something from you if you deal with me honestly, but tell me a lie, even a small one, and if I’m aware of it, your chances of making a sale just went to zero.

 

[chris1278]

We were in an update last week and were told differently. Basically our guy said to join MVC the minimum purchase is 1500 points. He said our mandatory resale was 'grandfathered' in and we could purchase a minimum of 1000. I balked at the ridiculous $25 per point.

 

[daviator]

We were in an update last week and were told differently. Basically our guy said to join MVC the minimum purchase is 1500 points. He said our mandatory resale was 'grandfathered' in and we could purchase a minimum of 1000. I balked at the ridiculous $25 per point.

…and you are already a member of MVC (via Abound) so that minimum purchase for new owners wouldn’t apply to you anyway!

 

[timsi]

I have been able to see lots of Marriott inventory in Abound, and it doesn't seem to be only inventory elected by legacy weeks owners.

How can you tell?

 

[sponger76]

How can you tell?

The same way you can tell everything about MVC is evil apparently.

In all seriousness though, you're right, there's no way for me to 100% know for sure. But I've seen a ton of inventory at pretty much all of the resorts when I've been looking, so I guess the point is moot because the OP is stating that the claim is that using elected VOI points rather than trust points you'd pretty much not be able to get any inventory.

By the way, I thought you blocked me? Feel free to do so again.

 

[timsi]

The same way you can tell everything about MVC is evil apparently.

In all seriousness though, you're right, there's no way for me to 100% know for sure. But I've seen a ton of inventory at pretty much all of the resorts when I've been looking, so I guess the point is moot because the OP is stating that the claim is that using elected VOI points rather than trust points you'd pretty much not be able to get any inventory.

By the way, I thought you blocked me? Feel free to do so again.

So just speculation. I kind of understand why they would not mix the exchanges with the inventory of the trust, at least when the inventory is first released. They separate the elected points and the trust points, so I guess there must be a reason..

 

[Alwaystravelling]

Timeshare salesmen are so deceitful. .......

 

[sponger76]

So just speculation.

So you admit your anti-MVC rants are just speculation. Thanks for finally doing so.

 

[timsi]

So you admit your anti-MVC rants are just speculation. Thanks for finally doing so.

What speculation? That the site only works sometimes? That when it launched, Abound was showing inventory at the Vistana resorts at 13 and 12 months? They all disappeared, I wonder why. That Lagunamar has a strong protection for the resort owners during the Home Resort Reservation period yet the Abound exchange procedures mention that Vistana inventory would be available at 12 months?

 

[sponger76]

They all disappeared, I wonder why.

Exactly. You can only 'wonder.' You are not some all-seeing, all-knowing genius.

Are they inept? Absolutely, their Abound launch and ongoing website and VSN integration issues have been absolutely shameful. But as for inventory shenanigans, you can only wonder. You don't know for sure they are acting maliciously, you have NO (aka ZERO) concrete proof that it is anything other than more of their poor execution of the launch.

 

[timsi]

Exactly. You can only 'wonder.' You are not some all-seeing, all-knowing genius.

Are they inept? Absolutely, their Abound launch and ongoing website and VSN integration issues have been absolutely shameful. But as for inventory shenanigans, you can only wonder. You don't know for sure they are acting maliciously, you have NO (aka ZERO) concrete proof that it is anything other than more of their poor execution of the launch.

Oh, your rants are better than mine. Between us geniuses, if inventory is taken from the resort owners and given to Abound, the end result is the same and it does not matter if they act maliciously, if it is a poor understanding of the resort rules or if it is due to poor execution. I just hope it won't happen.

By they way, would you support Marriott adding details about the number of units available? Like the way you can check the availability for airline tickets.

 

[grrrah]

So just speculation. I kind of understand why they would not mix the exchanges with the inventory of the trust, at least when the inventory is first released. They separate the elected points and the trust points, so I guess there must be a reason..

Others here who have earned my trust have seen similar (ie exact) inventories for elected week owners only vs point only owners. Yes, everything with a grain of salt, but some salts are better than others.

 

[sponger76]

Oh, your rants are better than mine. Between us geniuses, if inventory is taken from the resort owners and given to Abound, the end result is the same and it does not matter if they act maliciously, if it is a poor understanding of the resort rules or if it is due to poor execution. I just hope it won't happen.

By they way, would you support Marriott adding details about the number of units available? Like the way you can check the availability for airline tickets.

I do think intent matters, but yes end result does too. Which is why I was responding in this thread to someone who was told by sales that with elected points they wouldn't really have access to stays, and I basically was saying that in my experience (real evidence) that it was untrue; on those occasions when the crappy website works, with my elected points I am able to see all kinds of nights available. Pretty much the opposite outcome of your doom and gloom scenarios that MVC is purposely plotting to steal nights/weeks from owners so they can rent them out, leaving owners with nothing, something by the way for which you have zero proof that they are actively trying to do. You've been banging the drums of war for months prior to any issues with Vistana inventory occurring, which I don't believe in doing. However, once inventory issues DO happen, whether by incompetence or on purpose, it does piss me off and I would like to see them held accountable. I don't believe it was on purpose, but I do think especially on launch day for Vistana owners, they were showing and allowing booking of lots of Vistana inventory ahead of even their own announced limit of 12 months. I think that was absolutely wrong, and that something should be done about it. As for what that should be, I have no idea.

As for seeing details about units available? I'm a curious enough person that I would definitely look if they offered that capability. But I'm not of the opinion that they HAVE to or should be forced to. While airlines allow you to see fare buckets (and, having worked at a major airline, I can tell you that what you see isn't as complete of an availability picture as you think), I've never seen a hotel that gives out numbers, they just show what is actually available at the time of booking for the dates you are requesting. To me, timeshares are essentially still just a hotel business with a different model of selling those nights. Regardless of how important you think having the title of 'owner' makes you, it really doesn't give you any legal rights to see every bit of proprietary corporate information you want. I could be the 'owner' of any number of types of corporations by buying stock, and it wouldn't entitle me to demand to see their proprietary algorithms. For example, I could buy stock in an airline and at the same time be one of their *name your favorite precious metal* statuses, that would not enable or entitle me to see their algorithms for allocating different types of inventory or upgrades. But if they offered to show it to me, I wouldn't turn it down.

 

[sponger76]

Others here who have earned my trust have seen similar (ie exact) inventories for elected week owners only vs point only owners. Yes, everything with a grain of salt, but some salts are better than others.

Yes, but according to him, if you don't have proof with 100% certainty, it has to be dismissed. Unless it is his theories that are being advanced without hard proof.

 

[timsi]

and I basically was saying that in my experience (real evidence)

You do not seem to understand the difference between "real evidence" and your "experience". YOU have shown zero proof and I am not even sure you know where to start. When it comes to intent and the HRRP, it is very clear from the Abound Exchange procedures. It will be very interesting going forward to see how they handle the Vistana bulk deposits, now that they have officially designated Abound an external exchange. All the construction is based on the weak "from time to time" bulk deposits that VSN has allowed to external exchanges as an exception.

 

[sponger76]

You do not seem to understand the difference between "real evidence" and your "experience". YOU have shown zero proof and I am not even sure you know where to start. When it comes to intent and the HRRP, it is very clear from the Abound Exchange procedures. It will be very interesting going forward to see how they handle the Vistana bulk deposits, now that they have officially designated Abound an external exchange. All the construction is based on the weak "from time to time" bulk deposits that VSN has allowed to external exchanges as an exception.

Experience is evidence. Or was I merely imagining seeing all that inventory out there? What a *sorry, edited for family-friendly viewing*.

 

[timsi]

Experience is evidence. Or was I merely imagining seeing all that inventory out there? What a dumbass.

You would really have to run a large number of searches at the same time with 3 different accounts: one that only has trust points, another one that has trust and elected points and a third one that only has enrolled weeks (elected points). You would need to run the searches over several days or weeks, at multiple resorts and as soon as the window opens and other times as well. If you read other comments, most come from those that have used their personal experience using just one account . Even so, you will see reports that Ritz St Thomas did require at one point a trust account. Was that the only time? I doubt Marriott would program the search filters just for one resort.