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Joint tenancy w/ survivorship: Having "adult" children on deed

FlyerBobcat

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A few recent posts and updates have caused to start thinking this out some more and ask this question first.

I’ve discussed with the SC attorney the pluses & minuses of having my future timeshare titled/deeded via “joint tenancy w/ survivorship” with my two 20+ yr old children – with regard to signing process, bankruptcy, divorce, etc. So I’m weighing my options from that point-of-view.

I hoping the experienced group here can tell me what I should be aware of with regard to the potential pitfalls (or advantages) with such things as Marriott registration, II membership, trading, renting, MF’s, etc (i.e., anything that I might encounter in the upcoming years as a timeshare owner that might be affected by having my “adult” children also on the deed)?

Thanks in advance.
 

tombo

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The major disadvantage is that they are obligated to pay MF's and assessments if you die or they could have collections come after them possibly hurting their credit rating. They would be responsible for selling the week if they didn't want to own it. Some here have said if you die and the timeshare is part of your estate that the timeshare mgt could come after your estate to cover past due MF's, so it wouldn't go against your children's credit but it still might come out of their inheritance.

Some of the advantages are that when you die they don't have to do anything to become owners of the resort. If they aren't on the deed it would have to be put in their name (at some expense) after the estate is settled. While you are still alive they get all the benefits of owners including II or RCI membership (by listing a child as the other member along with yourself). They can call and make reservations at the resort or with an exchange company without having to pay guest fees. They can have their own II or RCI account if they so desire. If the resort has special rental prices for owners only, they will get those. If the resort allows owners to use the facilities whether you are staying there or not, they would get to take advantage of that benefit also.

I am looking forward to hearing some of the less legally challenged Tuggers comment on this because I have placed my children on 6 of my resorts with myself and wife as joint tenants with rights of survivorship.
 
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ctyatty

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go with a trust

don't put family on the deed, go with a trust instead that way no one has personal liability with the possibility of getting negative credit.
 

AwayWeGo

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[triennial - points]
Same Here.

I have placed my children on 6 of my resorts with myself and wife as joint tenants with rights of survivorship.
Us too -- except with us it's only 4 timeshares.

Plus, we have 5 family members signed up as official Additional Users on our RCI Points account -- our 2 sons, our nephew, my brother, & The Chief Of Staff's sister.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

tombo

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don't put family on the deed, go with a trust instead that way no one has personal liability with the possibility of getting negative credit.
Is a trust hard to set up? Is it expensive? Also what are the disadvantages of doing a trust?
 

FlyerBobcat

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don't put family on the deed, go with a trust instead that way no one has personal liability with the possibility of getting negative credit.
Thanks for another opinion.

With a trust, are the "adult" children considered real owners (for day passes, checking in without parents, etc)?
 

Diane

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I agree with the trust route, which is what we did, by ourselves. We put only the timeshares in the trust that we did ourselves.

Another route not mentioned so far is the Transfer of Deed on Death. It is available in in NM and a few other states, no sure which others. You record a TDD to your child, or whomever. It is not effective until you, the owner, dies. In the meantime you, the owner is free to sell the property or do another TDD to someone else. After the death of the owner, the person named in the TDD records the death certificate and now becomes the owner. That is all there is to it. No probate, no pre-death complications.

Diane
 

Talent312

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I agree with the trust route, which is what we did, by ourselves. We put only the timeshares in the trust that we did ourselves.

Another route not mentioned so far is the Transfer of Deed on Death. It is available in in NM and a few other states, no sure which others. You record a TDD to your child, or whomever. It is not effective until you, the owner, dies.
[Deleted my erroneous remarks on TDD's. See below.]

I once had a client who insisted on setting up a trust for the family farm. She wanted the farm kept in the the family in case of another depression. She provided that, if at any time the property was not used by her kids as a farm, it would be given to a charity... notwithstanding the fact that her kids had all moved away and had non-farming careers.

I would hope that the OP, before saddling the kids with ownership-responsiblity, check with each to make sure that they want it.
 
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Diane

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Talent312: Where did you get your information that a NM (or other state) TDD would have to be probated? This is the first I have heard that. Of course they have to be executed, notarized and recorded to be valid, but I think that is all, unless someone comes forward and claims undue influence. Without such a challenge, why would probate be needed? And, I don't think any such challenge is any more likely with a TDD than it would be with a joint tenancy, payable-on-death, or beneficiary designation, other devices commonly used to avoid probate.

Diane
 
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Talent312

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Talent312: Where did you get your information that a NM (or other state) TDD would have to be probated? This is the first I have heard that...
My apologies. I failed to proof my post. I meant to say this...

TDD's are indeed a rare breed of document which is recognized in only a few states.
However, in most states -- other than those which allow TDD's -- any instrument
which purports to transfer property at death is construed to be a Will.
 
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applegirl

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With a trust, are the "adult" children considered real owners (for day passes, checking in without parents, etc)?

I would think not. This could be a major advantage to having the kids as joint owners NOW. As long as you do not worry about being delinquint on your MF's in the future and if you have made sure they want it? If they want day use privileges and the ability to buy getaways on their own, then yes, you may want to add them to the deed.

Just my two cents.

Janna
 

FlyerBobcat

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Thanks

Thanks for all the advice. We've decided to go the route of Joint Tenancy w/survivorship...
 

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There is another aspect of any type of common or joint ownership that should be considered and that is the prospect of those owners having a falling out between them. It is probably less likely with children, although I have seen a few bad situations involving children falling out with parents.

In these types of ownership, each party has the right to use the property. That means any of them can deposit it with an exchange company, for example.

At a timeshare where I served on the HOA board, a woman bought a week the HOA put up for sale on eBay, and had her live-in boyfriend's name put on the deed with her. After a couple of years, they broke up. The boyfriend set up his own RCI account, paid the next two years m/f's and deposited the week to his own RCI account. After using those weeks, he deeded back his interest to the HOA. The HOA offered to deed that to the woman, but she was so upset by the whole situation, she just refused to pay m/f's and let the week go to foreclosure.

A tenancy in common would always allow anyone to make such a deposit, although the rules way vary from state to state with a joint tenancy.
 

bogey21

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My plan is to die massively in debt with no assests in my name except for 4 timeshare weeks, a couple of race horses, and a car where I owe more than it is worth. The 4 timeshare weeks are weeks my kids don't want. The other Weeks are already in their names. All other assets are in either my kids or ex-wives names. There is also a life insurane policy to cover transition expenses.

The deal with my kids was that I would pay for all their education and two cars but would not leave an estate. I live 100% on my pension and social security

George
 

tombo

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What a strange group we are here on TUG. We love timeshares, buy timeshares, vacation in timeshares, and educate others on the joys of timeshare ownership. However when talk of leaving timeshares to our children comes up it is constantly said "Don't leave that burden on your children". I am sure that all of us agree that leaving our homes, stocks, automobiles, cash, land, and other assets to our kids is a good thing. When it comes to timeshares, more TUGGER's than not seem to feel that leaving timeshares to our children is a form of punishment.

Is timeshare ownership really a good thing, or are we just lying to ourselves to justify our sickness?
 
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AwayWeGo

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[triennial - points]
[Resale] Timeshares Are Outstanding.

Is timeshare ownership really a good thing, or are we just lying to ourselves to justify our sickness?
Shux, around here we view having our son & daughter-in-law on our timeshare deeds as a good thing for them, not some dreadful burden they'll be stuck with after we assume room temperature.

Then again, with luck The Chief Of Staff & I may well keep on breathing air another 20-25 years -- no guarantees about that, obviously, & of course life is like a football in that it can take some strange & odd & funny bounces which nobody can predict.

So it's possible the next generation may want to take over primary use of our timeshares before we assume room temperature & equally possible that when The Chief Of Staff & I are well into our dotage we won't be doing much timeshare vacationing ourselves. In that case having the kids already on the deeds might simplify matters all round.

We'll see, eh ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



 

tombo

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Shux, around here we view having our son & daughter-in-law on our timeshare deeds as a good thing for them, not some dreadful burden they'll be stuck with after we assume room temperature.

So it's possible the next generation may want to take over primary use of our timeshares before we assume room temperature & equally possible that when The Chief Of Staff & I are well into our dotage we won't be doing much timeshare vacationing ourselves. In that case having the kids already on the deeds might simplify matters all round.

We'll see, eh ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



I agree. I feel like I have done a good thing putting my children on the deeds of my best weeks. However I also thought that the stock market was a safe investment. :eek:
 

jhm40cu

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Plus, we have 5 family members signed up as official Additional Users on our RCI Points account -- our 2 sons, our nephew, my brother, & The Chief Of Staff's sister.


How were you able to add that many names on your RCI account? I tried to add my wife on RCI account and they wouldn't let me because my wife's name was not on WM account.
 

pranas

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I added my daughter to my RCI account by simply writing a letter telling RCI to add her name and both of us signed it. FAXed it to customer service at RCI and they took care of it.
 
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LLW

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I agree. I feel like I have done a good thing putting my children on the deeds of my best weeks. However I also thought that the stock market was a safe investment. :eek:

Assuming your best weeks are not inexpensive, if your young adult children run into financial trouble (easy to do anytime but especially in these times), your weeks, with them as part owner, could be looked upon by their creditors as something of which the creditors can take at least partial ownership and which they can liquidate. IMHO, that's the biggest risk of putting your children's names on your valuable timeshares, without them compensating you first. Of course, that was not why you did it. But the loss of the timeshare or equivalent dollar amount may be an unintended consequence.
 

AwayWeGo

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[triennial - points]
5 "Additional Users" -- Only 2 R. C. I. Account Holders.

How were you able to add that many names on your RCI account? I tried to add my wife on RCI account and they wouldn't let me because my wife's name was not on WM account.
The Chief Of Staff & I are the RCI joint account holders, weeks & points both.

The others -- her sister & my brother & our 2 sons & our nephew -- are listed on our RCI Points account as Additional Users, meaning we can get Guest Certificates in their names at no additional charge.

( One of our sons, BTW, is also a Joint Tenant WROS on our timeshare deeds. So is his wife. That's mox nix for purposes of who's on our RCI account. )

When we joined RCI Points, we filled out a hand-written application form of 3 or 4 pages. Near the top of Page 3 was a space where we could write in the names of up to 5 Additional Users. So we did.

I assumed that option was available to everybody signing up with RCI Points -- but maybe that's not a safe assumption. Who knows ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 

1950bing

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First check with your kids to see if they even want the thing. Why strap them with ever increasing fees and no notice SA's ? One name on a document is easy to get rid of. Think this out. I sure wouldn't want my name on any paper if I didn't agree to it ! They are very hard to dump off as it is.
 
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