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Is Wyndham Destroying Resale Values as a Sales Strategy?

ddavid1073

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As a Wyndham Owner (3 contracts) I've never had a problem with the restrictions placed on resale owners concerning access to Worldmark or Margaritaville locations. I can understand that this is selling point to prospective buyers to buy direct rather than resale.

However, the knife cuts both ways. Since resale buyers don't have access to certain locations and other perks I think this lowers resale values which as a purchaser from Wyndham would make me think twice. How can my $50k investment is worth $400 on Ebay. Maybe if all owners were treated the same the resale values would rise. Maybe.
 

dioxide45

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Wyndham is in the business of selling to the uninformed buyer who purchases on the first day in a high pressure sales presentation. They sell a product with no inherent demand. Tossing in the added perks would not do much, if anything, to bring resale prices up to anything close to what Wyndham sells them for direct.
 

rickandcindy23

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As a Wyndham Owner (3 contracts) I've never had a problem with the restrictions placed on resale owners concerning access to Worldmark or Margaritaville locations. I can understand that this is selling point to prospective buyers to buy direct rather than resale.

However, the knife cuts both ways. Since resale buyers don't have access to certain locations and other perks I think this lowers resale values which as a purchaser from Wyndham would make me think twice. How can my $50k investment is worth $400 on Ebay. Maybe if all owners were treated the same the resale values would rise. Maybe.
I agree. Wyndham has devalued its own product, which is odd because it's a good product, and unless you pay a great deal of money, you don't get the perks of VIP by buying Wyndham direct. I have an aunt who bought 168,000 EOY points from Wyndham for a lot of money, and she gets no benefits except maybe access to RCI points.

I am giving away my Wyndham points that we cannot use, and those are tough to get rid of, believe me. Rather than to deedback, I would rather find a new owner for the points.
 

rickandcindy23

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Wyndham is in the business of selling to the uninformed buyer who purchases on the first day in a high pressure sales presentation. They sell a product with no inherent demand. Tossing in the added perks would not do much, if anything, to bring resale prices up to anything close to what Wyndham sells them for direct.
And we know that all timeshares lose a significant amount of dollar value developer vs. resale. We toured Marriott's Willow Ridge in May of 2003 (Branson). The pitch was very low-key, but the price was crazy for an annual 2 bedroom. My question was about trading power into Hawaii, and the guy was honest and said, "no guarantee you will get Hawaii in II." I bought a resale on ebay for a very reasonable cost after Marriott moved to points because they also devalued their own product via resale.
 

CO skier

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Maybe if all owners were treated the same the resale values would rise. Maybe.
Club Wyndham resale values finished collapsing during the 2008 Great Recession. That is when $1 resale Wyndham contracts became commonplace. The resale market never recovered. Club Wyndham Access had some resale value for a number of years; as the maintenance fees on CWA have risen over the past 5 years, the resale value has declined to the point where there are now deals where the buyer essentially is paid a few hundred or thousand dollars to take over larger CWA contracts.

The transparent resale market available through eBay coupled with relatively high supply and low demand is what "destroyed" resale values in 2008. Wyndham sales destroying the resale market would make no sense, because it would only increase competition (value) versus the developer's selling prices.
 

Jan M.

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Hopefully OP will correct me on this if I'm wrong but I thought resale owners could book the Margaritaville resorts like St. Thomas, Rio Mar, and maybe Nashville and Desert Blue also, at 10 months or less. If you don't own at a Margaritaville resort or aren't a Presidential Reseve owner then you can't book those resorts before 10 months out even if you're a developer owner.

I could book the Worldmark resorts with our Wyndham points but have never done so. We own at a non Wyndham resort that gives us an RCI points account. I've used it to book the Worldmark inventory that's available in RCI. That's another option to buying developer points with Wyndham or owning Worldmark points.
 

dioxide45

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Wyndham sales destroying the resale market would make no sense, because it would only increase competition (value) versus the developer's selling prices.
Not so sure. For the most part, Wyndham sales isn't competing against the resale market. They are selling to those that have no clue a resale market exists. Wyndham like cheap to $0 resales because then people are willing to give their ownership back through deed back programs where Wyndham can sell it all over again.
 

CO skier

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Not so sure. For the most part, Wyndham sales isn't competing against the resale market. They are selling to those that have no clue a resale market exists. Wyndham like cheap to $0 resales because then people are willing to give their ownership back through deed back programs where Wyndham can sell it all over again.
There are recent posts where Wyndham is declining to take back contracts for $0.
 

ddavid1073

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Hopefully OP will correct me on this if I'm wrong but I thought resale owners could book the Margaritaville resorts like St. Thomas, Rio Mar, and maybe Nashville and Desert Blue also, at 10 months or less. If you don't own at a Margaritaville resort or aren't a Presidential Reseve owner then you can't book those resorts before 10 months out even if you're a developer owner.

I could book the Worldmark resorts with our Wyndham points but have never done so. We own at a non Wyndham resort that gives us an RCI points account. I've used it to book the Worldmark inventory that's available in RCI. That's another option to buying developer points with Wyndham or owning Worldmark points.
Jan, I was originally told we could book six months out. When I tried it on the website it wouldn't let me. I called Wyndham and was told it wasn't available to resale owners. It's really OK. I'm still very happy with my resale purchases.
 

paxsarah

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Jan, I was originally told we could book six months out. When I tried it on the website it wouldn't let me. I called Wyndham and was told it wasn't available to resale owners. It's really OK. I'm still very happy with my resale purchases.
It's 5 months out, but we have no access to Pigeon Forge (only available to Margaritaville owners) and the Margaritaville side of Atlanta (only available to VIPs).

Edit: Adding screenshots of my search results for Rio Mar at 5 months and Nashville next month. I'm resale-only.
Rio Mar.JPG

Nash.JPG
 
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HitchHiker71

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Jan, I was originally told we could book six months out. When I tried it on the website it wouldn't let me. I called Wyndham and was told it wasn't available to resale owners. It's really OK. I'm still very happy with my resale purchases.

As @paxsarah said - by default non-VIP owners can only book MVC resorts (with a few exceptions) up to five months out. VIP members have the following booking privileges (taken from the current members directory:

1679324604256.png


AFAIK the only resort that currently blocks resale only owners is MVC Atlanta (which is likely only temporary in nature).
 

ddavid1073

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As @paxsarah said - by default non-VIP owners can only book MVC resorts (with a few exceptions) up to five months out. VIP members have the following booking privileges (taken from the current members directory:

View attachment 74525

AFAIK the only resort that currently blocks resale only owners is MVC Atlanta (which is likely only temporary in nature).
Hi HitchHiker71,
Thanks for trying to clarify this but I can't find the default non VIP 5 month access to MVC anywhere in the members directory. The chart above doesn't mention it and it's on a page listing benefits of 6 levels of the VIP program. Could you identify where in the directory that is written? Thanks!
 

ddavid1073

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It's 5 months out, but we have no access to Pigeon Forge (only available to Margaritaville owners) and the Margaritaville side of Atlanta (only available to VIPs).

Edit: Adding screenshots of my search results for Rio Mar at 5 months and Nashville next month. I'm resale-only.
View attachment 74479
View attachment 74480
Hi. Did you buy your points from Wyndham or resale? This is what comes up for me.

1680360801681.png
 

bccash63

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Jan, I was originally told we could book six months out. When I tried it on the website it wouldn't let me. I called Wyndham and was told it wasn't available to resale owners. It's really OK. I'm still very happy with my resale purchases.
I have been able to book at 3
Mom out with my resale contract
 

bnoble

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Thanks! Did you buy any points direct from Wyndham? I'm now getting a message saying "Resort unavailable for your membership".
I have never tried to book a Margaritaville resort.

But, the results you are seeing are exactly consistent with what @paxsarah said: Pigeon Forge isn't available at all, and Atlanta only to VIPs. I don't think either matters. Atlanta is a split resort, and part of it is Club Wyndham. That inventory should be obtainable at 10 months. MV Pigeon Forge is in the middle of the Parkway chaos, and IMO much less pleasant than Smoky Mountains which is not particularly hard to book. I really like the Smoky Mountains location, because you can bypass almost all of the Parkway between there and the National Park by taking Veterans Blvd for the first segment, crossing over to the Parkway, and then the Gatlinburg Bypass shortly thereafter. Veterans also gets you right to Dollywood with basically no traffic.

More broadly: I don't worry too much about what I can't book. I plan vacations based on what I can, and that's worked out well.
 
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ddavid1073

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I have never tried to book a Margaritaville resort.

But, the results you are seeing are exactly consistent with what @paxsarah said: Pigeon Forge isn't available at all, and Atlanta only to VIPs. I don't think either matters. Atlanta is a split resort, and part of it is Club Wyndham. That inventory should be obtainable at 10 months. MV Pigeon Forge is in the middle of the Parkway chaos, and IMO much less pleasant than Smoky Mountains which is not particularly hard to book. I really like the Smoky Mountains location, because you can bypass almost all of the Parkway between there and the National Park by taking Veterans Blvd for the first segment, crossing over to the Parkway, and then the Gatlinburg Bypass shortly thereafter. Veterans also gets you right to Dollywood with basically no traffic.

More broadly: I don't worry too much about what I can't book. I plan vacations based on what I can, and that's worked out well.
Agreed. I'm very happy with what resorts I can book at. I did want to go to PR. Prior to the hurricane it was an available resort. After, it became the Margaritaville and I thought I could book at 5 months. Now, based on the members guide I should be able to but the system wont let me. I'll try calling Monday and see why there is a discrepancy between the guide and the system. Thanks for your help bnoble.
 

paxsarah

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Agreed. I'm very happy with what resorts I can book at. I did want to go to PR. Prior to the hurricane it was an available resort. After, it became the Margaritaville and I thought I could book at 5 months. Now, based on the members guide I should be able to but the system wont let me. I'll try calling Monday and see why there is a discrepancy between the guide and the system. Thanks for your help bnoble.
To clarify, are you saying that the website is telling you that the Puerto Rico location is unavailable for your membership? Because you should be able to book it inside 5 months (assuming there's availability). The screenshots you posted don't contradict that (because they didn't include Rio Mar).

Edit (again, I'm resale-only):
Capture.JPG
 

ddavid1073

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I can't get any search results right this second, so I can't double check.
Hmm. I checked Rio Mar and there was no restriction on membership like the others. It looked like there was availability later in April - June and at first I wasn't able to find anything available which is what happened when I last looked. When I called Wyhndham they said it was due to membership. Today I keep trying and found a window in June 11 - 18th and I took the booking through till just be for committing.

You were right! Does this mean we can't trust Wyndham Customer Service like we can't trust the sales geeks (lol). I think maybe she was new asked someone a a question and got the wrong answer. Thank you, I'm glad I know now. Maybe PR next year.
 

bnoble

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The CS reps do their best. But, they are paid minimum wage to work in a high-pressure environment, so probably very few of them last very long. The program is really a bunch of different programs layered on top of each other, each with slightly different details. Many of those details normally don't matter to any individual person, and so it is hard to built up a comprehensive picture of the whole thing. Even if someone has a fairly complete picture, it will be easy to forget details here and there, or confuse one exception with another.
 

Jan M.

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The CS reps do their best. But, they are paid minimum wage to work in a high-pressure environment, so probably very few of them last very long. The program is really a bunch of different programs layered on top of each other, each with slightly different details. Many of those details normally don't matter to any individual person, and so it is hard to built up a comprehensive picture of the whole thing. Even if someone has a fairly complete picture, it will be easy to forget details here and there, or confuse one exception with another.

To add to what you said the reps seem to be mostly? working from home now. They don't have other reps or a supervisor sitting close enough to overhear their conversations and help when they don't know or are giving incorrect information. I know from our son that this has been a real problem with the reps education and call handling in his company. Enough for him to change positions.

In our son's company there are excellent online resources for the reps to consult before they escalate calls. It counts against them when the reps escalate a call because they failed to use those resources or don't understand what they're reading because they were playing on their phones, watching shows/ movies, talking or whatever during their training. They only get so many marks against them before it costs them a raise or their job.

From my experiences I'd say that the Wyndham reps online resource is the directory. Some seem to understand what they're reading and interpret it to answer our questions better than others. The supervisors often don't seem all that knowledgeable either. Nor do the owner care reps. Most try help to the best of their ability given the constraints they work with and the system.

Now more than ever TUG is a valuable and much needed resource. Even for the more knowledgeable and experienced owners.
 
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tschwa2

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Hmm. I checked Rio Mar and there was no restriction on membership like the others. It looked like there was availability later in April - June and at first I wasn't able to find anything available which is what happened when I last looked. When I called Wyhndham they said it was due to membership. Today I keep trying and found a window in June 11 - 18th and I took the booking through till just be for committing.

You were right! Does this mean we can't trust Wyndham Customer Service like we can't trust the sales geeks (lol). I think maybe she was new asked someone a a question and got the wrong answer. Thank you, I'm glad I know now. Maybe PR next year.
Is there some Margaritaville Rio Mar in Access? If so that inventory wouldn't have the restrictions that the non access inventory would have in terms of membership. Wyndham has so many different underlying clubs especially when some of the inventory from a single resort is in access and some is not that it makes some of the rules extra complicated.
 

bnoble

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It appears to be.
 
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