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Is this allowed?

Drewmama

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I've had my timeshare since 1999. It was Monarch Grand Vacations that got taken over by Diamond and now Hilton. It is points based and when we bought, we were told we could break up our weekly points into smaller vacations. Each night of the week was assigned a points value and the total of the week was equal to the number of points we purchased. Basically, it didn't matter what day you check in.

Now we find out that if you break up your week and check in on a "non-standard day", we are charged 30% of the week's points each night if you check in on Friday or Saturday and 10% for each night Sunday thru Thursday. When you add that up, it's 110%. So if you check in on a Sunday-Thursday for a week's stay, you won't have enough points.

Does anyone else's points based timeshare do this? It doesn't seem right. We were never notified of this change.
 

dioxide45

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That is the cost of flexibility. This is a new type of premium that I haven't seen anywhere, but when they allow a midweek check in, the resort has to "break" two weeks to make it happen. That 10% premium is there to disincentivize people doing so and the 10% premium helps cover the excess breakage that happens in the system.
 

Drewmama

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That is the cost of flexibility. This is a new type of premium that I haven't seen anywhere, but when they allow a midweek check in, the resort has to "break" two weeks to make it happen. That 10% premium is there to disincentivize people doing so and the 10% premium helps cover the excess breakage that happens in the system.
That makes sense but I wonder if they can change the rules like that 20 years later. That wasn't disclosed when we purchased.
 

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I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV or TUG.

Did you make any changes to your ownership when DRI took over Monarch to allow you access to all the DRI properties? The points scheme you are describing is the points scheme for "nightly" reservations with DRI 'The CLUB' where week nights Su-Th are each 10% of a week and weekend nights are each 30% of a week. This encourages thrifty people to book weeknights that may have sat empty and discourges them from booking weekend getaways. It's a supply and demand thing.

I'm thinking that if you never augmented your Monarch membership, you should still be able to book the original Monarch properties as you did when you originally bought. Then again, if you signed something to give yourself access to all DRI properties, the rules can change.
 

Drewmama

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I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV or TUG.

Did you make any changes to your ownership when DRI took over Monarch to allow you access to all the DRI properties? The points scheme you are describing is the points scheme for "nightly" reservations with DRI 'The CLUB' where week nights Su-Th are each 10% of a week and weekend nights are each 30% of a week. This encourages thrifty people to book weeknights that may have sat empty and discourges them from booking weekend getaways. It's a supply and demand thing.

I'm thinking that if you never augmented your Monarch membership, you should still be able to book the original Monarch properties as you did when you originally bought. Then again, if you signed something to give yourself access to all DRI properties, the rules can change.
I made no changes to my membership despite Diamond's attempts to get me to convert. I only have access to my original (7?) Monarch properties and am ok with that because that is what I purchased and it's worked out for me throughout all these years. The only change was they upscaled our points by a factor of 60 which was fine.

That is why I am confused about how they can change the rules now? It's almost like they are lumping everyone into one big group as opposed to separating original non-converted owners from the ones who converted to Diamond. People who used to be able to book a week are no longer able to if the check-in day isn't one of the standard check-in days for a particular resort. They end up being short 10% of the points.
 

DRIless

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I made no changes to my membership despite Diamond's attempts to get me to convert. I only have access to my original (7?) Monarch properties and am ok with that because that is what I purchased and it's worked out for me throughout all these years. The only change was they upscaled our points by a factor of 60 which was fine.

That is why I am confused about how they can change the rules now? It's almost like they are lumping everyone into one big group as opposed to separating original non-converted owners from the ones who converted to Diamond. People who used to be able to book a week are no longer able to if the check-in day isn't one of the standard check-in days for a particular resort. They end up being short 10% of the points.
You'd probably need a timeshare specialty lawyer to sort that out, but I agree with you. Like everything else timeshare, there's lots of smoke and mirrors.
 

jules54

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I made no changes to my membership despite Diamond's attempts to get me to convert. I only have access to my original (7?) Monarch properties and am ok with that because that is what I purchased and it's worked out for me throughout all these years. The only change was they upscaled our points by a factor of 60 which was fine.

That is why I am confused about how they can change the rules now? It's almost like they are lumping everyone into one big group as opposed to separating original non-converted owners from the ones who converted to Diamond. People who used to be able to book a week are no longer able to if the check-in day isn't one of the standard check-in days for a particular resort. They end up being short 10% of the points.
Oh my friend yes it seems Timeshare Resorts can change the rules anytime they feel like it. Ask all the millions of Wyndham owners. Wyndham has constantly been changing the rules for the last 2 years.

Maybe if you feel you have gotten your money worth out of your contract purchase you should simply look into walking away from it. I mean the if company is changing the rules doesn’t that void your agreement with them? Of course this has to be down on paper not just a handshake deal between you and your salesman.
 

dioxide45

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Oh my friend yes it seems Timeshare Resorts can change the rules anytime they feel like it. Ask all the millions of Wyndham owners. Wyndham has constantly been changing the rules for the last 2 years.

Maybe if you feel you have gotten your money worth out of your contract purchase you should simply look into walking away from it. I mean the if company is changing the rules doesn’t that void your agreement with them? Of course this has to be down on paper not just a handshake deal between you and your salesman.
Changing the rules isn't really allowing Wyndham owners to just walk away. Why would this be any different?
 

bnoble

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That makes sense but I wonder if they can change the rules like that 20 years later. That wasn't disclosed when we purchased.
I will bet that the written disclosures either (a) only provided for specific days of the week guaranteed as check in and/or (b) allowed the management company some discretion in setting points values for partial weeks. That probably wasn’t verbally mentioned but that’s not required.

If you were the original purchaser and still have all of your original documents it might be worth looking to check. They probably are not violating the written terms but you never know.
 

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I will bet that the written disclosures either (a) only provided for specific days of the week guaranteed as check in and/or (b) allowed the management company some discretion in setting points values for partial weeks. That probably wasn’t verbally mentioned but that’s not required.

If you were the original purchaser and still have all of your original documents it might be worth looking to check. They probably are not violating the written terms but you never know.
I have the original documents and have started reading. The only thing I could find is that points can be reallocated but the total number cannot change. I read this to say, if they sold you 700 points to stay for a week, they can adjust the points of certain days but the total has to be 700. Maybe I'm interpreting it incorrectly?

It also says for full week reservations, allowable check in days depend on the R&R of the resort for which we're requesting a reservation. I'm wondering if this is how they are able to charge us more points for a week than what we were sold.
 

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I believe this refers for Total Points for the Resort for a year.
 

bnoble

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It also says for full week reservations, allowable check in days depend on the R&R of the resort for which we're requesting a reservation. I'm wondering if this is how they are able to charge us more points for a week than what we were sold.
Possibly. And, just to clarify: If you check in on one of the "allowable days" you get the full week, correct?
 

Drewmama

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Possibly. And, just to clarify: If you check in on one of the "allowable days" you get the full week, correct?
Yes, if you check in on an allowable day, the week's points equal what was purchased. If your week starts on a non-standard day, you get charged 10% more so if you check in on a non-standard day, you will never be able to stay the whole week because you'll be short points. They charge 30% of a week's points for each night Fri/Sat and 10% of a week's points for each night Sun-Thur which when added together is 110%.
 

Drewmama

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Yes, if you check in on an allowable day, the week's points equal what was purchased. If your week starts on a non-standard day, you get charged 10% more so if you check in on a non-standard day, you will never be able to stay the whole week because you'll be short points. They charge 30% of a week's points for each night Fri/Sat and 10% of a week's points for each night Sun-Thur which when added together is 110%.
I forgot to add ...if you check in on a non-standard day, they treat it like a "short stay" of less than a week. The old management company used to charge nightly points that added up to a week and it didn't matter what day you checked in.
 

TheHolleys87

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The only thing I could find is that points can be reallocated but the total number cannot change. I read this to say, if they sold you 700 points to stay for a week, they can adjust the points of certain days but the total has to be 700. Maybe I'm interpreting it incorrectly?
DVC has the same provision, and the total applies to the entire year, not to the week. They’re currently in a multi year process of reallocating so that the less popular dates (summertime, mostly) are getting cheaper but the more popular dates (first two weeks of December, for example) are getting more expensive. But the total number of points required to book every room for one year is the same.

For example: We bought DVC in 1997, and our 300 points were enough to stay in a 2BR villa for Thanksgiving week. A few years later DVC reallocated to make the very-expensive Friday and Saturday nights less expensive and the Sunday through Thursday nights more expensive. That bumped a 2BR Thanksgiving week up a few points, to +/- 305, I think. Due to the recent reallocations, that 2BR Thanksgiving week now costs significantly more points - but the total points for the year is the same.
 

Drewmama

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DVC has the same provision, and the total applies to the entire year, not to the week. They’re currently in a multi year process of reallocating so that the less popular dates (summertime, mostly) are getting cheaper but the more popular dates (first two weeks of December, for example) are getting more expensive. But the total number of points required to book every room for one year is the same.

For example: We bought DVC in 1997, and our 300 points were enough to stay in a 2BR villa for Thanksgiving week. A few years later DVC reallocated to make the very-expensive Friday and Saturday nights less expensive and the Sunday through Thursday nights more expensive. That bumped a 2BR Thanksgiving week up a few points, to +/- 305, I think. Due to the recent reallocations, that 2BR Thanksgiving week now costs significantly more points - but the total points for the year is the same.
I have DVC, too, and I think this is why I think what my other timeshare is doing isn't right. For DVC, within a particular season, they assign points to each night and it equals the week. It doesn't matter what day you check in. For example, for Poly during Sept 1-30, a standard studio is 104 points for the week. I could check in on whatever day I want during the week of Sept 18th, and it's 104 points.

With my other timeshare, if I check in on Monday, Sept 19th, that week will cost me 10% more or 115 points. This is what I'm having a hard time with, especially when we have resorts that don't have seasons. I would never be able to stay a week if I check in on a non-standard day.
 

jules54

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Changing the rules isn't really allowing Wyndham owners to just walk away. Why would this be any different?
I didn’t changes in the rules were allowing Wyndham owners to walk away. I do believe that a ton of Wyndham owners are walking away or finding other ways to leave that organization. I only mentioned the possibly so the OP could consider it and look in to it if he chooses. I have no idea what their organization does or doesn’t do? Only posting for food for thought.
What on earth did your response to my point have to do with helping the OP think about his problem?
 

TheHolleys87

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I have DVC, too, and I think this is why I think what my other timeshare is doing isn't right. For DVC, within a particular season, they assign points to each night and it equals the week. It doesn't matter what day you check in. For example, for Poly during Sept 1-30, a standard studio is 104 points for the week. I could check in on whatever day I want during the week of Sept 18th, and it's 104 points.
Yes, you’re right, with DVC it doesn’t matter what day you check in, the cost of a week is the same - as long as your stay doesn’t cross seasons (for example, if you check in on September 28 and check out on October 5, the total cost of the week is more than 104 points because the October nights cost more than the September nights).

If your other TS doesn’t have seasons, meaning every Monday night costs the same number of points and every Friday night costs the same, etc., then I agree with you - 7 nights should cost the same no matter what day you check in.
I forgot to add ...if you check in on a non-standard day, they treat it like a "short stay" of less than a week. The old management company used to charge nightly points that added up to a week and it didn't matter what day you checked in.
I agree with previous poster who said it sounds like they’re trying to discourage stays that aren’t weekend to weekend. Whether it’s legal or not depends on the documents governing the activities of whatever entity is in charge of the points charts. For DVC, the DVC Management Company is not only allowed but required to reallocate the points charts in order to balance demand across the year. So way back when they lowered Friday and Saturday nights and raised Sunday through Thursday nights, there were a lot of squawks from owners who liked to pay points for weekdays and cash for weekends, but DVCMC was within the terms of the management contract to do it.
 

Drewmama

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Yes, you’re right, with DVC it doesn’t matter what day you check in, the cost of a week is the same - as long as your stay doesn’t cross seasons (for example, if you check in on September 28 and check out on October 5, the total cost of the week is more than 104 points because the October nights cost more than the September nights).

If your other TS doesn’t have seasons, meaning every Monday night costs the same number of points and every Friday night costs the same, etc., then I agree with you - 7 nights should cost the same no matter what day you check in.

I agree with previous poster who said it sounds like they’re trying to discourage stays that aren’t weekend to weekend. Whether it’s legal or not depends on the documents governing the activities of whatever entity is in charge of the points charts. For DVC, the DVC Management Company is not only allowed but required to reallocate the points charts in order to balance demand across the year. So way back when they lowered Friday and Saturday nights and raised Sunday through Thursday nights, there were a lot of squawks from owners who liked to pay points for weekdays and cash for weekends, but DVCMC was within the terms of the management contract to do it.
That's what I'm trying to figure out....who is in charge. I'm not clear on the roles of the management company and the Owners Association Board. I was reading the minutes of a recent meeting and it was talking about how Hilton wants to convert our points to a single currency and went on to say, "change in the point structure would require a change to the Bylaws as well as an owner vote". When Diamond took over, they upscaled points by a factor of 60 which was fine because it didn't really change anything. I would think these latest changes of charging us 110% for a week is more drastic and not sure if the owners and/or the board should have had a say.
 

bnoble

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who is in charge. I'm not clear on the roles of the management company and the Owners Association Board.
I would start by contacting the Board at your resort. They might not be in charge, but they will understand your situation better than someone at the HGVC offices.

Also, not to belabor the point but: I strongly suspect the management company is within their rights to do this based on what you've written so far.
 
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