Is this a good price for WSJ 3BR Hillside

[scottcara]

I wanted to get my wife a christmas present and we love St. John. I saw on Ebay a 3BR Hillside unit for $28K resale? Can anyone please advise if that is a good price. How can you tell what unit it is or do you just reserve a different one based on the week you get each year?

Thanks in advance!

Scott

 

[DavidnRobin]

I wanted to get my wife a christmas present and we love St. John. I saw on Ebay a 3BR Hillside unit for $28K resale? Can anyone please advise if that is a good price. How can you tell what unit it is or do you just reserve a different one based on the week you get each year?

Thanks in advance!

Scott

You didn't state the week - the week is very important as to the value for these units. Also - the 3bd villas have 2 types - older ones and one that have been refurbished relatively recently. I have stayed in both - and we preferred the newer ones (without the moving bedroom wall).

Also - be aware that there is a significant refurbish going on for the older units and the cost over a 3 year period is pretty steep. There is a thread about this (somewhere) - I have been meaning to get more informed about this, but no time...

$28K seems like a low price based on the limited ads I have seen.

If you plan on purchasing this villa - then plan on using this week (since the week, unit and check-in day are fixed), or exchanging into another resort, or renting. It is very difficult to exchange a week within the WSJ season - more likely for Sept and Oct than other months. Overall - I would not plan on this.

Also - the StarOptions for WSJ is increasing in 2009. This is good for the owners as it gives them better SVN exchange value.

 

[DavidnRobin]

I just saw the ad - it is for a Sunday check-in on Week 30 - it does not give the unit number (which is important)

it is a buy-it-now - that ends in about 45 mins - there have been bids that have expired or been denied.

Week 30 isn't the worst week since it is before the high-risk hurricane season and it is summer time (school's out)

Sounds like it is one of the newer units.

if you buy - offer less...

it will be relisted...

 

[scottcara]

The listing states Week 30

Hi and thank you for your prompt response. The listing says the following. Can you tell me how you know which unit it is either newly refurbished or older style? Is the full cost of the remake passed on to the individual owner? The listing states week 30 Red High of July 26th-August 2nd.

Deeded Ownership with Fixed week #30 Sunday to Sunday (July 26-Aug 2, 2009) Gold Plus Float 104,100 Star Option Points

Does Starwood have to approve the purchase price?

The listing also states that the unit was built in 2004...Can you select which unit you will visit upon booking your week or are you always locked into the same one year over year.

There is a $1700 maintenance fee also which I assume is common.

Scott

 

[DavidnRobin]

The SOs are correct for 2009.

Starwood does not have a ROFR for WSJ Hillside (Virgin Grand)

This is a fixed unit, week, and check-in day - treat it as such. Exchanging within a season is difficult for too many reasons to spell out here.

We own weeks 23 and 24 in a 2Bd TH.

We stayed at both types of 3bd pool villas last June (long story) - loved them both, but preferred the newer ones.

The Building which are the newer ones is listed in the WSJ Thread (I think)

The MFs is rising considerable for 2009, 2010, and 2011 to pay for the refurbish - I do not know if this applies to the already refurbished units (some here on TUG could answer this better).

Property Taxes have no been billed since 2006 (last were paid for 2005) - be careful with this as they are going up ~2x. This is a problem with all of the USVI - not just WSJ.

 

[scottcara]

Offering less

I just saw the ad - it is for a Sunday check-in on Week 30 - it does not give the unit number (which is important)

it is a buy-it-now - that ends in about 45 mins - there have been bids that have expired or been denied.

Week 30 isn't the worst week since it is before the high-risk hurricane season and it is summer time (school's out)

Sounds like it is one of the newer units.

if you buy - offer less...

it will be relisted...

Can you tell me if I offer less how much less as I do not know what the "market" price is for this? Also, as I am reading your replies, I should email the seller and get the unit number correct? Will Starwood need to approve the purchase price if it is below a certain threshold? Also, is it safe to say that the starwood points will transfer during the resale process?

Thanks again!

Scott

 

[DavidnRobin]

Can you tell me if I offer less how much less as I do not know what the "market" price is for this? Also, as I am reading your replies, I should email the seller and get the unit number correct? Will Starwood need to approve the purchase price if it is below a certain threshold? Also, is it safe to say that the starwood points will transfer during the resale process?

Thanks again!

Scott

There is no Right of First Refusal by Starwood.

StarPoints do not tranfer - StarOptions do. The SPs are not worth much at WSJ - so it is a non-issue.

Hmmm... $26,500 ??? {not sure really}

The property tax and teh refurbish costs are worth knowing.

eBay auctions ae non-binding...

do not send $ to teh seller - use an Title/Esrow service ONLY,

gotta run - good luck

 

[scottcara]

Received a response to my unit # question

I just learned that this is unit 4410. Is that a good unit? No idea if it's in the newer or older section.

I really appreciate any/all assistance.

 

[DeniseM]

I know that you want to get this for your wife for Christmas (GREAT GIFT!) but I would not rush into it just to get it done by the 25th. Here's why: Maintenance Fee bills are going out soon and in this economy, I think we will see a lot of people trying to sell their timeshare. I think the best deals are yet to come...

 

[scottcara]

Maintenance fees aside

I agree Denise but maintenance fees aside as a fixed cost, is this already a "good" deal or you honestly feel that there will be better prices coming for newer 3BR units than somewhere in the neighborhood of $28K.

 

[Loriannf]

Thought about buying this, but didn't want to go Wk 30

Building 44 is one of the newer hillside 3 bedrooms; all of the hillside 3 bedrooms will be assessed the $1000.00 per week for 3 years in addition to the maintenance fees (for 2009, I think the total was about $2950). 4410 is in the front of the building; we own 4210 and 4310. 4410 will have 2 separate upstairs bedrooms, no sliding pocket door.

 

[DavidnRobin]

see post #28 from this thread
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74510&page=2

Lori may be able to answer questions you have re: the 3bd villas

DeniseM is right in that TSs are like buses - however, I think while cost is important to some extent - for these units (of limited number really) since they are fixed - it is important that you get one that fits your vacation needs whil epaying attention to costs. These 3Bd villas have sold in the past for $38K+ - wil they come down more than this - perhaps... but people who own these villas (and paid $60K+) are not going to let them go for nothing.

Again - if you want a 3bd at WSJ - then decide which week works best for you (incl check-in date) and find the best price possible.

An issue that can arise - as it did for us - is that WSJ is quite a trek (esp from SFO) and 1 week was just too short - luckily we were able to buy the adjoining week (same unit).

Friday check-in and weeks 23-24 work well for us - Saturday at STT can be a zoo) - and a day plus before going back to work on a Monday works well for us.

A 2Bd works good for us - but we did love the private pool/enclosure that the 3Bd villa offered.

Again - do not forget about the unpaid property taxes (2006-2008) and the refurbish costs (I believe this is listed in the main WSJ thread in the stickies at the top of this forum).

As to the cost - hard to know if it will be cheaper I would not buy WSJ from mid-Aug thru mid-Oct because of the generally unstable weather.

If you can figure your way around the deed searches at the USVI Recorders office (and tax assessors office) - you can find out what others have paid for their units and their taxes if you use the proper search terms. There was a thread about this also (way back...)

gl

 

[scottcara]

A few more questions/comments

Thank you for you continued advice, it's wonderful to have such educated resources to tap into for this major decision. We live in Chapel Hill, NC and have been to the Westin two times and love it there. We really had a great time picking up picnic supplies at Starfish, renting a jeep and heading over to Maho for all day sand castle making and snorkeling with our children.

I found the website for the purchaser information at http://www.virginislands.us.landata.com/ and have registered to be able to access the deed/contract information. It looks like it costs $2/page to be able to retrieve the data and am not sure which to get either the deed or the contract (both are three pages each).

A few questions:

1. Can you explain a bit more about back taxes?
2. I will read the other posts about special assessments and MF's so I can be smarter as that maybe why this individual wants to sell. Thank you!
3. I know that this has been a major conversation topic for most on many threads regarding "timeshare as an investment" but honestly I want to at a minimum not just throw money away and I work best knowing that getting in at a relatively good price for one of these beautiful WSJ 3BR units for around $25K is a comfortable place to start without much downside risk.
4. A newbie question, the 104,000 Staroptions are only good for trade if you deposit your week for any given year or decide to try to go to another resort for another season/location correct? If you want to convert to starwood points is there a fee?
5. What's the quick thought on just being able to rent a villa any given week vs. putting down the initial downpayment? Seems like it would take a while at about $4-5K/week of rentals to equal the $25K or so + almost $2K in MF's to amortize. My initial feeling is with renting you get the flexibility of location, time, and not spending the initial purchase price if they don't appreciate. (I guess this is in addition to question #3).


Thanks so much again and the wife would be so psyched to know that we were going back to St. John. Again, just another nervous consumer making sure that I don't make any mistakes....

 

[DeniseM]

1. Can you explain a bit more about back taxes?

St. John is several years behind on billing the property tax. You will probably be responsible for the back taxes.

4. A newbie question, the 104,000 Staroptions are only good for trade if you deposit your week for any given year or decide to try to go to another resort for another season/location correct? If you want to convert to starwood points is there a fee?

Because WSJ is so expensive, I wouldn't buy there unless I wanted to go there most of the time. If you don't want to go every year, then look at an every other year purchase. Staroptions can be used for exchanges into other Starwood resorts. The earliest you can attempt an exchange is at 8 mos. out. I would never exchange an expensive resort like WSJ, because you will usually be trading down and you lose your owner preferences when you exchange. If you want an exchanger, buy a cheap Starwood voluntary resort with a low maintenance fee on ebay, and use it for a II exchanger.

Resales never have Starpoints, and for an expensive resort like WSJ, it's a poor value anyway.

5. What's the quick thought on just being able to rent a villa any given week vs. putting down the initial downpayment? Seems like it would take a while at about $4-5K/week of rentals to equal the $25K or so + almost $2K in MF's to amortize. My initial feeling is with renting you get the flexibility of location, time, and not spending the initial purchase price if they don't appreciate. (I guess this is in addition to question #3).

In this economy, there are far more rentals on the market and fewer people are traveling. I expect rental rates to fall. I would not expect to get $5K.

Be sure you read the FAQ for a good basic understanding of how Starwood works.

 

[DavidnRobin]

I found the website for the purchaser information at http://www.virginislands.us.landata.com/ and have registered to be able to access the deed/contract information. It looks like it costs $2/page to be able to retrieve the data and am not sure which to get either the deed or the contract (both are three pages each).

A few questions:

1. Can you explain a bit more about back taxes?
2. I will read the other posts about special assessments and MF's so I can be smarter as that maybe why this individual wants to sell. Thank you!
3. I know that this has been a major conversation topic for most on many threads regarding "timeshare as an investment" but honestly I want to at a minimum not just throw money away and I work best knowing that getting in at a relatively good price for one of these beautiful WSJ 3BR units for around $25K is a comfortable place to start without much downside risk.
4. A newbie question, the 104,000 Staroptions are only good for trade if you deposit your week for any given year or decide to try to go to another resort for another season/location correct? If you want to convert to starwood points is there a fee?
5. What's the quick thought on just being able to rent a villa any given week vs. putting down the initial downpayment? Seems like it would take a while at about $4-5K/week of rentals to equal the $25K or so + almost $2K in MF's to amortize. My initial feeling is with renting you get the flexibility of location, time, and not spending the initial purchase price if they don't appreciate. (I guess this is in addition to question #3).


Thanks so much again and the wife would be so psyched to know that we were going back to St. John. Again, just another nervous consumer making sure that I don't make any mistakes....

I am not sure it is worth paying per page - you would unlikely find a price for a 3bd that comes close to this price. I was able to search w/o paying via the tax assessors sight - but that may have only been for property taxes payments.

As I wrote - he USVI tax assessors office has yet to send tax bills for 2006-2008 - it is caught up in the courst - but expect a 2x increase - you will be responsible for the back taxes. In my recent purchase I had the sellers compensate me for the back taxes and they were kind enough to do so.

Treat this as a fixed unit, fixed week and fixed check-in day - if you cannot - I would not recommend buying.

There is an upcoming assessment for 3 years that is very large - I have been intending to contact the HOA about this - but bottom-line - expect it to happen.

The SO increase is nice - but using SO for a SVN exchange would be an exchange downward - where else you going to get a 3Bd w/ private pool?

My advice is to buy it to use it - or rent it (or perhaps a direct exchange with enough lead time). As to the rental value - RedWeek lists rental prices, but only use the ones in the date range of week 30. WSJ is very expensive in spring-time as the snow birds escape (we do not have this issue).

You cannot convert to StarPoints (hotel usage) as this is lost upon resale (not worth it anyway - SPs at WSJ are very very low) - but since it is a Mandatory resort you can use StarOptions (Timeshare usage) for SVN exchanges - but see above (not worth it).

Buy it to use it (or rent it) - otherwise buy somewhere else.

I am not following the logic for Q#5... this is a investment in vacation - not a profit making venture - there are better ways to make a profit from an investment than buying a Timeshare unless you go into the business of buying many in order to rent out.

This is a very good price for a 3bd - will it continue to be a good price? who knows? We bought an OF WKORV and WKV 1Bd (prem/Plat) resale - at what was a very good price at the time. they have now dropped considerably - BUT we have gotten usage form them over the last few years that we wouldn't have otherwise.

THIS IS AN INVESTMENT IN VACATION.
if this is a finacial investment - you need to do a whole lot more research.

 

[rsnash]

I know that you want to get this for your wife for Christmas (GREAT GIFT!) but I would not rush into it just to get it done by the 25th.

On that part I have a suggestion. Give your wife a "Gift Certificate" for a Timeshare on St. John.

You can create it yourself, maybe include a picture of your family on vacation on St. John. Explain in the small print of the GC that you've been doing research and promise to buy one, but are trying to find just the right unit for your family and didn't want to rush into a decision just to get it done in time for Christmas.

This way you can get her opinions on specific units before making the final purchase.

 

[LisaRex]

I agree with rsnash. Given how difficult it is to trade into WSJ during the exact week you want, in this instance one size does not fit all, like other resorts that sell only float weeks. IMO, in this case, getting the exact week/unit supercedes the lowest price. If you have children and are chained to a school schedule, it's even more important to buy a week during the weeks that you're able to travel because summer weeks are nearly impossible to trade into.

Also, please be aware that not all of WSJ is mandatory. Per the sticky above, only Virgin Grand - Hillside is mandatory. Some owner advertise their units as having StarOptions and StarPoints even though they don't. So be sure to do your due diligence to make certain you are buying in the mandatory section if you want to trade within SVN.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Also - the closing costs will include a 2% Tax Stamp and recording fees on top of the standard closing costs. We did our close (w/o escrow) thru VILAW.com on St Thomas for $350.

also - to Q#3 - there is always downside risk (as my WKORV and WKV examples) - that price range is the lowest I have seen for a 3bd - but that doesn't mean that there will not be lower.

Buy the week(s) that work best for your vacation needs at a price you are comfortable in paying.

 

[James1975NY]

I agree Denise but maintenance fees aside as a fixed cost, is this already a "good" deal or you honestly feel that there will be better prices coming for newer 3BR units than somewhere in the neighborhood of $28K.

If you are after a specific week number such as 30, you may want to puruse this or at least stay on the radar and do more research to ensure this is a good fit for you from a product and cost standpoint.

Sure, prices may come down a little but with limited ownerships on the market for an attractive price is going to be your biggest challenge (especially if you are particular to a specific week).