Is this a good deal for hybrid direct from Marriott?

[cngriffin]

I know resale points can be bought for about $6-7/pp including the junk fees so I am curious to hear what people think of this.

My wife and I attended a virtual presentation with Marriott and one of the offers they presented was a hybrid: 2BR Oceanside platinum floating week at St. Kitts, which can be exchanged for 4025 points, MF $1950, for a purchase price of $37,400, which works out to be $9.29/pp. They would also add 7,500 “plus points” which can be used within 2 years. (Not sure why it’s 4025 points, seems like an odd number.)

Still, for a direct deal, what do you all think?


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[StevenTing]

No, it’s not great. It’s below average. Most deals I see are around $8.00-$8.75 in cost per point. A good deal would be in the $7.50-$8.00 range. Best deal would be in the $7.25-$7.50 range.
And my numbers are not factoring in all of the other stuff they try and include. I use total cost divided by number of points.

 

[cngriffin]

No, it’s not great. It’s below average. Most deals I see are around $8.00-$8.75 in cost per point. A good deal would be in the $7.50-$8.00 range. Best deal would be in the $7.25-$7.50 range.
And my numbers are not factoring in all of the other stuff they try and include. I use total cost divided by number of points.

Thanks! Do you see those numbers in both hybrid and straight point packages? Any difference in price or no difference one way or the other?

 

[Fasttr]

Thanks! Do you see those numbers in both hybrid and straight point packages? Any difference in price or no difference one way or the other?

The rack rate for Trust Points has been reported as $16.08 and you usually get a 20% discount for somewhere around a 3000 point purchase, so that effectively puts Trust Points around $12.86 per point.

 

[cngriffin]

The rack rate for Trust Points has been reported as $16.08 and you usually get a 20% discount for somewhere around a 3000 point purchase, so that effectively puts Trust Points around $12.86 per point.

I guess I am not clear on whether there a difference between Trust Points and the points on a hybrid week? I thought they were essentially the same but the difference in pp price seems to indicate a difference in types of points. We are newbies and not owners so I’m still learning. Should we stay away from hybrid deals ?

 

[Bill4728]

My idea of a hybrid deal is buy a week from MVC AND buy points. So in the case of the deal you mentioned, You'd buy the MVC week and buy points for the $37k. Not just the week.

 

[davidvel]

I guess I am not clear on whether there a difference between Trust Points and the points on a hybrid week? I thought they were essentially the same but the difference in pp price seems to indicate a difference in types of points. We are newbies and not owners so I’m still learning. Should we stay away from hybrid deals ?

Points are points. No difference.

 

[cngriffin]

My idea of a hybrid deal is buy a week from MVC AND buy points. So in the case of the deal you mentioned, You'd buy the MVC week and buy points for the $37k. Not just the week.

Yeah, the more I think about it, I get that. They did talk about a bundle deal which is what you are describing, based on my research here in the forums. They said that would involve two MF's, one for the week and one for the points, but we did not explore it further. Maybe I should have.

Points are points. No difference.

Ok, thanks! It just seems odd that Marriott would sell a week that can be used for points at a lower per point price than what Marriott would sell at for the same number of trust points alone. Seems backwards, but I'm sure somehow they are coming out ahead either way!

 

[Fasttr]

Yeah, the more I think about it, I get that. They did talk about a bundle deal which is what you are describing, based on my research here in the forums. They said that would involve two MF's, one for the week and one for the points, but we did not explore it further. Maybe I should have.



Ok, thanks! It just seems odd that Marriott would sell a week that can be used for points at a lower per point price than what Marriott would sell at for the same number of trust points alone. Seems backwards, but I'm sure somehow they are coming out ahead either way!

It’s merely because it’s a non-US property, and therefore they cannot put that underlying deed in the US based land Trust and sell as Trust points. As a result, they are just cutting you a break in the pricing.

 

[cngriffin]

It’s merely because it’s a non-US property, and therefore they cannot put that underlying deed in the US based land Trust and sell as Trust points. As a result, they are just cutting you a break in the pricing.

Oh, that makes sense now, thank you! And I guess one downside to purchasing a week that can be used for points is that if we were to resell it someday, the ability to use it for points cannot be transferred to a new owner via the resale market I gather, while if one purchases trust points, you can sell those as-is, although of course the buyer would have to pay the junk fees.

 

[ljmiii]

I agree with most/all of the answers you've received...but do have a question. Do you want to go to St. Kitts? Or did they offer this week 'out of the blue'?

Oceanside is the nicest view (usually called Oceanfront at other resorts) and resale OS weeks are asking $9-10K on Redweek. A week that you would use every other year or so is more useful as a hybrid purchase than one you would only ever elect into points. But $9.29/pp is pretty steep.

 

[cngriffin]

I agree with most/all of the answers you've received...but do have a question. Do you want to go to St. Kitts? Or did they offer this week 'out of the blue'?

Oceanside is the nicest view (usually called Oceanfront at other resorts) and resale OS weeks are asking $9-10K on Redweek. A week that you would use every other year or so is more useful as a hybrid purchase than one you would only ever elect into points. But $9.29/pp is pretty steep.

No, they offered this week at St. Kitts out of the blue. We never mentioned St. Kitts, although we did mention we were interested in travel to the Caribbean. So we would certainly go to St. Kitts, at least once, but not every other year or anything. We would mostly use the week to elect into points for travel elsewhere.

 

[cngriffin]

Okay now there are two actual "bundles" being offered, please let me know what you guys think:

4775 total points bundle: 2775 points Grande Vista 2br annual platinum + 2000 club points for $41,820, maintenance fees $2800 ($8.76 per point)

6200 total points bundle: 3650 points St. Kitts 2br interior ocean view annual platinum + 2550 points Harbor Lake 2br annual platinum for $43,200, maintenance fees $3550 ($6.97 per point)

plus of course they are throwing various bonus points good for two years.

 

[Dean]

Okay now there are two actual "bundles" being offered, please let me know what you guys think:

4775 total points bundle: 2775 points Grande Vista 2br annual platinum + 2000 club points for $41,820, maintenance fees $2800 ($8.76 per point)

6200 total points bundle: 3650 points St. Kitts 2br interior ocean view annual platinum + 2550 points Harbor Lake 2br annual platinum for $43,200, maintenance fees $3550 ($6.97 per point)

plus of course they are throwing various bonus points good for two years.

Neither are great IMO. Besides the up front costs, also strongly consider the yearly fees which are even more important in many ways. Where do you want to stay routinely and how do you want to use the options? I'm assuming that a timeshare makes sense including being able to plan a year out, can afford the purchase and the recurring fees and are OK with the limitations of a timeshare. I'm also assuming that MVC has the resorts in areas you want to visit.

Do you even need points in any way? The cheapest and often best option is to just buy resale weeks and use and/or exchange. The next best for many is to buy a week (or weeks) then pay to enroll with a well placed retail purchase. The next best is generally to buy a hybrid with a great resale week and a retail week. In all cases make sure you get a resort that works for you, usually with a fee per point in the 40¢ PP range.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

Dean hit the nail on the head.......



.

 

[cngriffin]

Neither are great IMO. Besides the up front costs, also strongly consider the yearly fees which are even more important in many ways. Where do you want to stay routinely and how do you want to use the options? I'm assuming that a timeshare makes sense including being able to plan a year out, can afford the purchase and the recurring fees and are OK with the limitations of a timeshare. I'm also assuming that MVC has the resorts in areas you want to visit.

Do you even need points in any way? The cheapest and often best option is to just buy resale weeks and use and/or exchange. The next best for many is to buy a week (or weeks) then pay to enroll with a well placed retail purchase. The next best is generally to buy a hybrid with a great resale week and a retail week. In all cases make sure you get a resort that works for you, usually with a fee per point in the 40¢ PP range.

Thank you. Points offers the kind flexibility that we are looking for — short stays, different size units, banking points, borrowing points, different check in days etc. and the Marriott resorts themselves are where we want to travel to. So we’re looking at point resales or perhaps some kind of hybrid or bundle deal direct from Marriott.

 

[cngriffin]

The next best for many is to buy a week (or weeks) then pay to enroll with a well placed retail purchase.

I have seen this mentioned before … I understand that resale weeks generally cannot be enrolled if purchased after 2010 but I gather that sometimes Marriott will let you do that if you buy some other points direct ?

 

[DanCali]

I have seen this mentioned before … I understand that resale weeks generally cannot be enrolled if purchased after 2010 but I gather that sometimes Marriott will let you do that if you buy some other points direct ?

Yes - if you don't take the first offer, it will be one of the next offers if you have a resale week(s) in your back pocket.

It may be worth doing if those weeks have a good Point/MF ratio and the more of them you have, the better the deal will be from your perspective (in terms of cost/point) - but it's not cheap.

 

[Dean]

Thank you. Points offers the kind flexibility that we are looking for — short stays, different size units, banking points, borrowing points, different check in days etc. and the Marriott resorts themselves are where we want to travel to. So we’re looking at point resales or perhaps some kind of hybrid or bundle deal direct from Marriott.

IMO the savings resale for points themselves are not sufficient to justify the yearly dues on points compared to a well placed week(s) that are enrolled unless one is just going to buy the minimum (1500) points and then rent points transferred in as needed. The latter is only a good choice, IMO, for the occasional or limited use when one needs a bigger options some years. Points, weeks and exchanges all offer their own benefits, limitations and FLEXIBILITY.

I have seen this mentioned before … I understand that resale weeks generally cannot be enrolled if purchased after 2010 but I gather that sometimes Marriott will let you do that if you buy some other points direct ?

There are a few ways to do this. In part it depends on one's situation and the volume needed. For sake of discussion, I'll assume one needs at least 5K points and not 20K. Here are some options as I see them, I'm sure there are others and all types of variations.

1. Buy points retail $90K purchase/$4400 yearly fees
2. Buy points resale $55K/$4400
3. Buy retail with a hybrid of a resale week direct from MVC plus points to enroll it. $73K/$3500
4. Buy retail with a hybrid of a week plus a retail week to enroll it $73K/$3000
5. Buy a week(s) resale then enroll with either a week or points purchase. $54K/$3000
6. Buy a Fractional Tahoe and enroll it. This would be a lot more but much less PP on the fees. I don't have good numbers, if you need that many points you should investigate further.

Prices will vary dramatically with the choices but for sake of discussion I'll use round numbers and better choices that include higher up front costs but lower yearly costs. I'll use Grande Ocean Ocean side as the "resale" week and a total of around 7000 points. Enrollment retail week using a 1 BR Aruba Ocean Club Oceanside week. One big mistake often made in this area is trying to get in too cheap but paying more every year such as a cheaper low value (compared fees to points) week like many Aruba Gold weeks, Grande Vista Platinum, etc.

Consider that you might buy a good trading week, like Grande Vista Platinum, for $1000-1500. With Maintenance fees, II membership and various exchange fees, that might end up being $2K per year. So the flexibility of points is very costly. Also that for many situations using weeks actually works out as well or better than points. Using points mostly for weekends is almost never a good choice due to the fact weekends tend to be much more points.

I'd spend a few months absorbing and investigating. Consider how you'll generally use it in 5, even 10 years, not next year. Don't rush in trying to get the next vacation as part of the savings, this approach almost always causes higher long term costs and less than optimal choices. If you don't have a couple of timeshare stays (at least one MVC) under your belt, consider renting privately to further define your choices.

 

[DanCali]

One big mistake often made in this area is trying to get in too cheap but paying more every year such as a cheaper low value (compared fees to points) week like many Aruba Gold weeks, Grande Vista Platinum, etc.

This is so true - I had a neighbor who bought retail (trust) points from Vistana and wanted to buy a resale week to add points (some Vistana resale weeks like Westin Kierland Villas can use points to trade internally even if bought resale).

The MF number below are somewhat dated but the approximate choice was:
2BR Gold with MFs of $1600 and upfront cost of $2500 with 81,000 Staroptions (points)
1BR Platinum with MFs of $900 and upfront cost of ~$9000 with 81,000 Staroptions ("points")

As much as I tried to convince her, she ended up going with the cheaper 2BR Gold. That's not a bad option but I suspect most tuggers would have chosen the 1BR Platinum. That difference in price can be easily justified when taking rental values into consideration.

 

[cngriffin]

IMO the savings resale for points themselves are not sufficient to justify the yearly dues on points compared to a well placed week(s) that are enrolled unless one is just going to buy the minimum (1500) points and then rent points transferred in as needed. The latter is only a good choice, IMO, for the occasional or limited use when one needs a bigger options some years. Points, weeks and exchanges all offer their own benefits, limitations and FLEXIBILITY.
There are a few ways to do this. In part it depends on one's situation and the volume needed. For sake of discussion, I'll assume one needs at least 5K points and not 20K. Here are some options as I see them, I'm sure there are others and all types of variations.

1. Buy points retail $90K purchase/$4400 yearly fees
2. Buy points resale $55K/$4400
3. Buy retail with a hybrid of a resale week direct from MVC plus points to enroll it. $73K/$3500
4. Buy retail with a hybrid of a week plus a retail week to enroll it $73K/$3000
5. Buy a week(s) resale then enroll with either a week or points purchase. $54K/$3000
6. Buy a Fractional Tahoe and enroll it. This would be a lot more but much less PP on the fees. I don't have good numbers, if you need that many points you should investigate further.

Prices will vary dramatically with the choices but for sake of discussion I'll use round numbers and better choices that include higher up front costs but lower yearly costs. I'll use Grande Ocean Ocean side as the "resale" week and a total of around 7000 points. Enrollment retail week using a 1 BR Aruba Ocean Club Oceanside week. One big mistake often made in this area is trying to get in too cheap but paying more every year such as a cheaper low value (compared fees to points) week like many Aruba Gold weeks, Grande Vista Platinum, etc.

Consider that you might buy a good trading week, like Grande Vista Platinum, for $1000-1500. With Maintenance fees, II membership and various exchange fees, that might end up being $2K per year. So the flexibility of points is very costly. Also that for many situations using weeks actually works out as well or better than points. Using points mostly for weekends is almost never a good choice due to the fact weekends tend to be much more points.

I'd spend a few months absorbing and investigating. Consider how you'll generally use it in 5, even 10 years, not next year. Don't rush in trying to get the next vacation as part of the savings, this approach almost always causes higher long term costs and less than optimal choices. If you don't have a couple of timeshare stays (at least one MVC) under your belt, consider renting privately to further define your choices.

Thank you very much, @Dean! I really appreciate you taking the time to offer your advice and suggestions. You've given me lots of food for thought. Thanks again.

 

[Dean]

Thank you very much, @Dean! I really appreciate you taking the time to offer your advice and suggestions. You've given me lots of food for thought. Thanks again.

And that's the goal. Everyone's situation is difference and those differences sometimes dictate different top choices. The one with the most information makes the best choices.

 

[DRH90277]

This is only my take on the vacation program. The overriding issue seems to be "how much am I willing to pay for the flexibility of the points program." This flexibility is in terms of ease of trading using the points as a currency coupled with the flexibility of vacation selection. All this is at a cost higher than other alternatives.

For example, while we own points and enrolled weeks, we are quite happy with the recurring use of the same locations coupled with exchanging through Interval or renting. We bought into timeshare for family get togethers, a lesser use than that of those who want more exotic fare. So, we had difficulty getting reservations using points at a favorite beach resort so we bought a few in the resale market. We have sufficient flexibility for our needs as we can use, rent out, exchange, etc. all at the lowest possible cost for timeshare. And, our maintenance fees are lower than those for similar uses under the points program. We also did not pay the marketing costs embedded in the purchase price which are huge. I agree that we are not high-flyers but we are very happy with what we have (and so are the 19 grandchildren.) We are also avoiding much of the difficulty of competing for point reservations at many resorts.

I mention this because there are many families who just want a vacation at a nice place and may not be able to afford the overly expensive options. So, a family on a budget can buy a Marriott "resale" assured vacation at a good resort in a good season for $5,000 to $12,000 up front and about $1,500 in annual maintenance fees.

Thanks for reading - "but, only my view."

By the way, this is my 100th post. I like Tug.

 

[Dean]

This is only my take on the vacation program. The overriding issue seems to be "how much am I willing to pay for the flexibility of the points program." This flexibility is in terms of ease of trading using the points as a currency coupled with the flexibility of vacation selection. All this is at a cost higher than other alternatives.

Let me add that there is an economy of scale here. Someone wanting 8-9 weeks or more and access to points to use for all 3 options (weeks, points & exchanges) or a boatload of points (fractional enrolled) can do much better than we're talking here. In that situation the additional cost is still significant but dramatically less on a per point basis. My personal portfolio is a combination of weeks to use, esp for our family vacations, weeks to exchange and weeks to take points on. Some we do a little of both. That way I can both maximize my options and minimize the costs using each option's strong points. As an example, our last HI trip was in 2018. I reserved everything 13 months out using a combination of an owned week and points for 3 weeks for up to 15 people. I ended up with everything on exchange except 2 of our 3 units at Waiohai (DC points) and then took points on my week at Ko Olina. So I had guaranteed reservations so I could plan and schedule flights but minimized the cost by utilizing the additional options. That allowed me to kick the points down the road to use for options where exchanges weren't likely to come through.

 

[cngriffin]

This is only my take on the vacation program. The overriding issue seems to be "how much am I willing to pay for the flexibility of the points program." This flexibility is in terms of ease of trading using the points as a currency coupled with the flexibility of vacation selection. All this is at a cost higher than other alternatives.

For example, while we own points and enrolled weeks, we are quite happy with the recurring use of the same locations coupled with exchanging through Interval or renting. We bought into timeshare for family get togethers, a lesser use than that of those who want more exotic fare. So, we had difficulty getting reservations using points at a favorite beach resort so we bought a few in the resale market. We have sufficient flexibility for our needs as we can use, rent out, exchange, etc. all at the lowest possible cost for timeshare. And, our maintenance fees are lower than those for similar uses under the points program. We also did not pay the marketing costs embedded in the purchase price which are huge. I agree that we are not high-flyers but we are very happy with what we have (and so are the 19 grandchildren.) We are also avoiding much of the difficulty of competing for point reservations at many resorts.

I mention this because there are many families who just want a vacation at a nice place and may not be able to afford the overly expensive options. So, a family on a budget can buy a Marriott "resale" assured vacation at a good resort in a good season for $5,000 to $12,000 up front and about $1,500 in annual maintenance fees.

Thanks for reading - "but, only my view."

By the way, this is my 100th post. I like Tug.

Thanks very much! We are fortunate that we own a place at the coast that we use for our regular family summer vacations and other get togethers, so we have been considering adding some sort of timeshare or timeshare points to our portfolio for random 3-5 day trips here and there throughout the year, and also allowing our kids and their SO's to use and go somewhere from time to time. Perhaps we would use it occasionally to take a full week somewhere in the Caribbean or Spain or Hawaii. We can afford purchasing something from Marriott (or resale, of course) and like the MVC resorts, so I'm just trying to find that right combination of weeks and/or points that is cost-effective, like @Dean mentioned. We have friends who are longtime Marriott owners and have used their weeks and points to take those kinds of trips and so that's sort of our model. We have other friends who are Hyatt points owners and do the same thing.