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Is there no advantage to buying direct?

RX8

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Hi HGVC TUG family, I am also a new owner (I bought direct at Marbrisa last week when in Carlsbad) and this forum is super-helpful! How do I join the TUG for $15 so I can access the reviews?

I am a newbie to HGVC but did own Worldmark 16 years ago and sold as we moved to Texas and there were no locations at time. Anyhow, I think I did "OK" with my direct purchase as I wanted very minimal costs and don't plan to travel much with my kids in future. So I purchased 1 Bedroom "Gold" 4200 points, every other year along with 4200 Bonus points. Roughly $14000. MF's <$800 and don't have to pay one portion during the year I don't use. Also, I will be a member of the GPX (not sure if worth anything?)

I plan to buy resale if my kids decide they want to travel more to HGVC locations.
You say you bought a “week ago”. California has a 7 calendar day rescission. Are you still within that 7 day period or has it passed?
 

Finsadbel

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We are owners that bought ELARA resale. We talked to the Hilton TS salespeople and heard all the negatives that you would “miss out on” if you bought resale. We can affirm that as resale owners we have the same access and are treated the exact same as the retail owners!

Thanks to TUG and David Patchnanian we made the right decision.

Words of advice- we were hung up on the ol’ elite status for a bit also. Totally not worth it! Buy resale and save thousands!!!!


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davidvel

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We literally just signed up today for HGV at the Elara. I admit we were impressed by the offer. We got 8000 pts, and the deal was sweetened with 20,000 points. Cost was around $60k, $1300 MF. We are absolutely new to TS and should have done the research, which we are doing now within the 5 days to rescind. I’m now leaning towards it, but is there really absolutely no benefit to directly buying? From what I read, many people are generally ok with the HGV system, and that buying resale saves money. I get all that. I just really want to know if there are no other advantages in keeping what we got. We are regular vacationers and we intended to use the system to its fullest potential in the coming years. You advice would be appreciated.
Your biggest problem is that you are basing your evaluation of this purchase on a meaningless factor, namely "is there really absolutely no benefit to directly buying?" This should not be the standard for evaluating your purchase of $60,000, and $1,300/yr mf. Just because there may be some benefit, does not justify overpaying by so much.

I don't know a lot about HGVC, but what kind of place (size, location, season) can you reserve with the 8000 points?
 

JIMinNC

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Waiohai Beach Club
Barony Beach Club
Destination Club Trust
HGVC:
HGVC at Sea World
I don't know a lot about HGVC, but what kind of place (size, location, season) can you reserve with the 8000 points?
Basically the same things you could book with a resale HGVC in Orlando or Vegas that you bought for $8000 or so.

In HGVC, a standard 2BR in platinum season at most locations is 7000 points (some newer resorts have a higher points scale, so 7000 might only get some type of 1BR at those). A 2BR Plus in platinum season (what "Plus" means varies by resort, often its a better view/higher floor) is usually 8400 points. A 2BR Premier (best location/view) in Gold season is often 7000 points.
 

davidvel

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Basically the same things you could book with a resale HGVC in Orlando or Vegas that you bought for $8000 or so.

In HGVC, a standard 2BR in platinum season at most locations is 7000 points (some newer resorts have a higher points scale, so 7000 might only get some type of 1BR at those). A 2BR Plus in platinum season (what "Plus" means varies by resort, often its a better view/higher floor) is usually 8400 points. A 2BR Premier (best location/view) in Gold season is often 7000 points.
Wow, amortized over 20 years that is about $4,300 for that week, or about $615/night for OP's purchase. When you can get the same thing for about $1,700 ($240/night, in your example), seems a high price to pay for the "advantage."
 

JIMinNC

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HGVC:
HGVC at Sea World
Wow, amortized over 20 years that is about $4,300 for that week, or about $615/night for OP's purchase. When you can get the same thing for about $1,700 ($240/night, in your example), seems a high price to pay for the "advantage."
Yep. HGVC treats resale owners better than Marriott (which I know you are very familiar with). That just makes it that much harder to justify anything other than a resale HGVC purchase. We bought 7000 HGVC points a little over a year ago for $6500 plus closing and transfer fees. Really easy to use. Just not as much variety of locations and availability as Marriott. But fills some nice gaps, for us mainly the Big Island in Hawaii.
 

Bpriz

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"HGVC treats resale owners better than Marriott"

Can anyone provide more detail about this comment? I am considering a resale purchase of Marriott points at 60% less than retail
 

dayooper

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"HGVC treats resale owners better than Marriott"

Can anyone provide more detail about this comment? I am considering a resale purchase of Marriott points at 60% less than retail
I think it’s that once you are an owner, HGVC doesn’t put any restrictions on how you use your points. With some exceptions, you can’t become elite buying resale. That’s the only difference. Most here on Tug don’t think the elite status is really worth it. I bought my interval resale and I can use my 7000 points exactly like my friends who bought their 7000 points retail. I have the same booking rights and windows as my friends do.

I’m not totally up on Marriott, but I believe a resale owner can only book their underlying week or exchange into II. You would get priority exchanges at other Marriott resorts (you would see those before non-Marriott owners would), but you can’t enroll in the points program without an eligible purchase from Marriott. Check out the Marriott forum for more information.

I could be totally wrong on the Marriott part, but that’s how the HGVC system works.
 

alwysonvac

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Bought and sold several over the years including Disney & Four Seasons
"HGVC treats resale owners better than Marriott"

Can anyone provide more detail about this comment? I am considering a resale purchase of Marriott points at 60% less than retail
I’m not a Marriott owner but here’s what I know based on what has been posted in the TUG sticky threads.

Marriott has two systems - The originally Marriott weeks system and almost ten year old Points System.

For Marriott weeks the only difference is that resale owners can’t trade their week for Marriott Rewards points. Here’s the link to the WEEK SYSTEM FAQ sticky thread - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/faq-marriott-vacation-club-weeks-system.391/

For the DC (aka Points) System, the difference appears to be similar (see text below from the DC FAQ). Here’s the link to the DC FAQ sticky thread - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/faq-mvc-destinations-points-program.197346/

DC Trust Points may be resold through any of the typical timeshare resales sites; Marriott is not currently buying back or brokering DC Points resales.

If stipulated fees are paid, full usage rights will transfer upon a resale to the buyer/new owner of DC Trust Points. Such fees include but may not be limited to:

  • $750/BI (i.e. 250 Points) with a minimum $3,000.00 Initiation Fee;
  • $300 Owner Education Fee;
  • $95 ROFR Fee;
  • $25/BI Transfer Fee; etc.
Marriott holds ROFR for all DC Trust Points.

Enrolled Weeks are sold exactly the same as un-enrolled Weeks; enrollment does not transfer from Seller to Buyer. Also, the Week cannot be re-enrolled by the buyer/new Owner because upon the sale the Week then becomes an external resale purchased after the eligibility deadlines.

Marriott allows ownership Transfers of DC Points and Enrolled Weeks among "Family Members" (as defined) with all usage rights assumed by the new Owner/Member. Marriott may or may not charge various related fees including an Initiation Fee or an Enrollment Fee if the new owner is not an existing DC Member at the time of transfer. For information contact the Owner Modifications office at 800-443-4391 or owner.modifications@vacationclub.com.

Any changes to the total number of DC Points in a Member's account will impact the Status Tier and associated usage/benefits of that account. Such changes include buying/selling of Trust Points and/or Enrolled Weeks, and placing ownership into a trust.
 

tombanjo

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HGV is far simpler than Marriott. Marriott is a far larger organization with more members and resorts. They trade in Interval International (II), where HGV trades in RCI. Marriott bought Vistana and Starwood, and many people are unhappy with how the integration, or more accurately, the lack of integration has gone. Google "Bonvoyed" which is the term Marriott people use to describe being screwed over by Marriott. On the upside, if you know the ins and outs and play the game well, it provides opportunities that could work well for savvy owners. I wouldn't touch them, but that's me. You may want to work through on paper how a purchase works, the resorts you want, the time period allowed to make reservations, the MF's, the points and membership types needed, etc. Its complicated so taking the time to figure it out ahead of a purchase is critical.

https://tug2.net/marriott-vacation-club/marriott-vacation-club-timeshare-points-information.html
 

alwysonvac

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Bought and sold several over the years including Disney & Four Seasons
.. I wouldn't touch them, but that's me. You may want to work through on paper how a purchase works, the resorts you want, the time period allowed to make reservations, the MF's, the points and membership types needed, etc. Its complicated so taking the time to figure it out ahead of a purchase is critical.
Yeah, MVC rewards members who own more with an advance booking window. This is the single thing I've always dislike about the Marriott systems and why I don’t own a Marriott. Lol, I’ve been tempted because I love their resorts. The other timeshare systems I have, provide all members with equal reservation access - Vistana, HGVC, Disney (recently sold) and WorldMark. This was one of the reasons why I sold my FSRC Aviara.

For the Marriott DC program, Membership status tiers determine various usage rules and options. See this "Benefits At A Glance" chart - https://www.my-vacationclub.com/en-us/owners/ownershiplevels/pdfs/orl_benefits.pdf
 

csodjd

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HGV is far simpler than Marriott. Marriott is a far larger organization with more members and resorts. They trade in Interval International (II), where HGV trades in RCI. Marriott bought Vistana and Starwood, and many people are unhappy with how the integration, or more accurately, the lack of integration has gone. Google "Bonvoyed" which is the term Marriott people use to describe being screwed over by Marriott. On the upside, if you know the ins and outs and play the game well, it provides opportunities that could work well for savvy owners. I wouldn't touch them, but that's me. You may want to work through on paper how a purchase works, the resorts you want, the time period allowed to make reservations, the MF's, the points and membership types needed, etc. Its complicated so taking the time to figure it out ahead of a purchase is critical.

https://tug2.net/marriott-vacation-club/marriott-vacation-club-timeshare-points-information.html
I own both HGVC and Marriott. Both Hawaii. With Marriott I do not have DC points, just an EOY 2-BR OF at Maui Napili. On secondary market, acquisition prices for me were about the same: 2-BR OF at Lagoon (9600 pts) was about the same price as a 2-BR OF at Maui Napili (Marriott is actually about $2k more). But, no doubt, the OBVIOUS difference is that Marriott MF fees approach double those of Hilton.

However, as an offset, the Marriott 2-BR OF in Maui is a lock-off and can be used as a 1-BR OF (includes full kitchen and washer/dryer) for a week and an OF studio for a week (kitchenette and no washer/dryer), so I get two weeks in Maui for the MF of one week, if I want. Or I can rent the studio out and pretty much pay my MF, making my week in a 1-BR OF essentially free. That is a notable advantage for Marriott.

In Hilton's favor is that, because my Marriott week is not "enrolled (i.e., can't be used as points)," I only have two options -- use the week where I own it, or trade. Hilton, on the other hand, has the points that can be used quite easily and pretty much at any HCV location, reserved 9 months ahead. So, with the HGV points, you don't have to buy expensive Hawaii, you can be inexpensive and use the points anywhere. You just give up a couple of prime weeks that may not be available via points like X-mas and spring break. But otherwise, the HGV points are infinitely more flexible.

Each also has a "cash" option. Marriott gives 25% off the "rack" price to all owners that rent at a Marriott Vacation Club location through Marriott.com Hilton has a much bigger discount, but only 30 days before check-out. So, it's kind of a last-minute what's available kind of thing.

I cannot imagine a compelling reason to buy direct over secondary market. Marriott gave me the "full monty" sales pitch to turn my EOY week into an annual enrolled week that can be used as points. Cost would be about $40,000. Since I can buy an EOY for about $20k or less, I saw that as paying an additional $20k. What would I get for that? Well, I could use it as points and go elsewhere. And I could use it as points and not be bound to a Friday or Saturday check-in, allowing travel at mid-week rates. Since Hawaii will almost always be where we go, it wasn't worth $20k for the option to check in on a different day. I just go two days earlier and rent for two days!
 

CalGalTraveler

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We recently stayed at the Marriott Grand Chateau in Vegas across the street from the Elara. It was very nice. Elara has a better pool but the Marriott and Westin studios are bigger and can accommodate 4. So rather than limiting to 6 in a 2 bdrm, Marriott's and Westin's tend to accommodate 8, with the extra fold out couch in the studio.

Some Hilton studio units could accommodate 4 if they added a fold out couch or a double bed - but they don't. It would be nice if bringing a family member or friend, because you only have a king bed and must upgrade to a 1 bedroom to accommodate with 2 beds.
 

JIMinNC

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HGVC:
HGVC at Sea World
"HGVC treats resale owners better than Marriott"

Can anyone provide more detail about this comment? I am considering a resale purchase of Marriott points at 60% less than retail
The comment you are questioning was mine, and the other replies have covered most of the angles. I would add:
  • HGVC resale owners pretty much get everything direct purchasers do, except the HGVC Elite status.
  • Marriott-weeks resale owners can use and trade their weeks in II just like direct purchasers, but they do not get the option to convert to BonVoy hotel loyalty points, or the ability to enroll their week into the Marriott Vacation Club Destination Club timeshare points system. The Destination Club assigns each week an annual point value that can be used to book other Marriott Vacation Club resorts, and is Marriott's only true internal exchange program. Marriott sometimes allows resale owners to enroll their week in Destination Club, but only if they buy about $35,000 worth of Marriotts' Trust-based Points - which is the only direct product they sell now. So, Marriott resale owners can use their week at their resort/season, or trade through II - those II trades can include other Marriotts.
  • The Marriott Destination Club Trust Points that are now being sold direct by Marriott (at $12-$14 per point) can also be bought on the resale market for $2.50-$4.50 per point, but then to get full usage rights of those resale points, you must also pay Marriott and ADDITIONAL $3/point activation fee.
We own both systems. They complement each other well. Marriott is a more complex system since it is a points system overlaid on a mature weeks-based system, but they have a wider variety of resorts in more locations than HGVC. HGVC was designed from the ground up as a points system, so it is simpler and more straightforward, but doesn't have quite the breadth of locations that Marriott does.
 

Sandy VDH

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We recently stayed at the Marriott Grand Chateau in Vegas across the street from the Elara. It was very nice. Elara has a better pool but the Marriott and Westin studios are bigger and can accommodate 4. So rather than limiting to 6 in a 2 bdrm, Marriott's and Westin's tend to accommodate 8, with the extra fold out couch in the studio.

Some Hilton studio units could accommodate 4 if they added a fold out couch or a double bed - but they don't. It would be nice if bringing a family member or friend, because you only have a king bed and must upgrade to a 1 bedroom to accommodate with 2 beds.

Elara has a Jr 1 BR that sleeps 4 and is less points than full 1 BR.
 

CalGalTraveler

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Elara has a Jr 1 BR that sleeps 4 and is less points than full 1 BR.
Great tip! BTW...I just noticed the Elara Studio has a King and a Queen sleeper sofa but only accommodates 2. This works if you bring a friend or family member and don't want to share a king.
 

GTStone

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We own 3 units at Seapoint ( Grand Pacific ). Last summer we attended an owner update at Marbrisa and were offered an exchange of our floating week for one at Marbrisa plus allowing our other properties into the HGVC thus giving us Elite status. The presented offer was ok for us ( affordable price plus better trading options ) so we proceeded. Then when we got the documents they did not match what was offered. They refused to modify to match what they offered so we immediately rescinded. The verbal/visual offer was so doable but they still refused. We will stick with what we have.


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ThierryJapan

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Never buy direct, I did once and once resale, buying direct you are paying for all their marketing costs
 

CalGalTraveler

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If there is a silver lining: having one direct purchase (and one resale.) I believe we are treated better. It's a "Je ne sais quoi." I cant put my finger on it but we keep getting little freebies and surprise benefits. Not sure if its bHC NYC purchase, or retail. Or a bit of both.

We keep getting offers to stretch our points and thus contribute to ROI. e g. we recently had a completely free visit. When we visit LT they give us elite armbands and send us a welcome gift (this has happened twice now). Housekeeping cleaned up our room and it was not our midweek clean. We received a welcome amenity during a recent stay. We are not elite.

Although it doesnt come near offsetting the cost of developer, and I wouldn't recommend buying developer for this. We keep getting such offers to stretch our ownership so it makes us feel better about overpaying retail and we feel that after 20 years the margin of loss may not be so much and HGVC will readily buy back our unit. In fact they have already offered to buy back our unit several times.
 
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csodjd

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Never buy direct, I did once and once resale, buying direct you are paying for all their marketing costs
You're also NOT paying the "fair market value." There are -some- benefits in the Marriott system to buying direct (though not worth their cost in my opinion), but I see none in the Hilton system.
 

Ralph Sir Edward

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One difference between the HGVC system and the Marriott system, that has not been mentioned in this thread, is the difference in booking windows.

In the Marriott, all the booking windows are open to everybody at the same time.

In Hilton, each type of booking has a different window.

For example: say you want to go to Hawaii every year.

With Marriott, everybody with points start trying to book at the same time - across the system. With weeks, everybody in that season for the resort do the same thing (in competition with the points owners). Plus if you have multiple weeks you can book a string of weeks in a block in the future. (Fixed weeks are different.)

With Hilton, there is an initial 3 month window for the owners of a particular type/season/resort to book, with no other competition other than the same class of owners at that resort. So if you own a Hawaiian Hilton timeshare, for which you are paying higher MFs, you have a certainty of getting a week there, and a much higher chance of getting the week you want. Once the 3 month owner window is finished then the remaining timeshares are available for points booking.

A much more civilized system. YMMV
 

csodjd

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One difference between the HGVC system and the Marriott system, that has not been mentioned in this thread, is the difference in booking windows.

In the Marriott, all the booking windows are open to everybody at the same time.

In Hilton, each type of booking has a different window.

For example: say you want to go to Hawaii every year.

With Marriott, everybody with points start trying to book at the same time - across the system. With weeks, everybody in that season for the resort do the same thing (in competition with the points owners). Plus if you have multiple weeks you can book a string of weeks in a block in the future. (Fixed weeks are different.)

With Hilton, there is an initial 3 month window for the owners of a particular type/season/resort to book, with no other competition other than the same class of owners at that resort. So if you own a Hawaiian Hilton timeshare, for which you are paying higher MFs, you have a certainty of getting a week there, and a much higher chance of getting the week you want. Once the 3 month owner window is finished then the remaining timeshares are available for points booking.

A much more civilized system. YMMV
There are other differences, some more subtle. I have a floating week with Marriott, not enrolled (i.e., no point value). I can book 12 mo ahead. My arrival date can be a Friday, Saturday or Sunday, for the start of the week, and I won't know which (if any) is available for the week I want until exactly 365 days ahead. If you have points, like Hilton in the 9-month "Club" period, you can use those points to book less or more than a week, with any start/end day. That can be nice to allow, for instance, the ability to travel on a less expensive mid-week day. With a family of four, that can save quite a bit in travel costs. But those points are expensive. Though you can buy points on the secondary market, Marriott charges to "enroll" those points (and they have no value or use until enrolled) and so there's no getting around paying a minimum developer-set price.
 

Ralph Sir Edward

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Don't forget to compare the effective MF's for points in the Marriott system. Last I checked, it was 57 cents a point.

For my Hawaii example, as owner at Bay Club, I paid $1608 a week MFs, which worked out to $230 a night. Marriott high season Big Island (with points), worst view, ran $339, (pool view $375, and ocean view ran $425)

PS. 4 weeks odd/3weeks even has run me just over $12,000 aftermarket, including all closing costs. At a blend $7 dollars a point (weeks+point combos) it would cost about $30,000 for a week with the worst view, or $105,000 for my ownership equivalent.
 

csodjd

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Don't forget to compare the effective MF's for points in the Marriott system. Last I checked, it was 57 cents a point.

For my Hawaii example, as owner at Bay Club, I paid $1608 a week MFs, which worked out to $230 a night. Marriott high season Big Island (with points), worst view, ran $339, (pool view $375, and ocean view ran $425)

PS. 4 weeks odd/3weeks even has run me just over $12,000 aftermarket, including all closing costs. At a blend $7 dollars a point (weeks+point combos) it would cost about $30,000 for a week with the worst view, or $105,000 for my ownership equivalent.
I find Marriott roughly double the cost of Hilton on MF costs, give or take a bit.
 

dayooper

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Don't forget to compare the effective MF's for points in the Marriott system. Last I checked, it was 57 cents a point.

For my Hawaii example, as owner at Bay Club, I paid $1608 a week MFs, which worked out to $230 a night. Marriott high season Big Island (with points), worst view, ran $339, (pool view $375, and ocean view ran $425)

PS. 4 weeks odd/3weeks even has run me just over $12,000 aftermarket, including all closing costs. At a blend $7 dollars a point (weeks+point combos) it would cost about $30,000 for a week with the worst view, or $105,000 for my ownership equivalent.
Yup, and if you can book 9 months in, you are saving even more. My cost per night (not including club dues or booking fees) is around $150 a night. Yes there was a buy in cost, but if you buy resale, it's pretty manageable. Including my buy in and 2019 MF's, I'm half way to even with the trip I'm taking to Ocean 22 this June.
 
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