Is a point a point with Wyndham, or are you limited in inventory availability??

[cschenk7]

I am a Wyndham CWA owner (new Discussion board member) and have been struggling with buying more points in a UDI contract because I have been told I am not seeing all the inventory at every resort because I can only see CWA Inventory. How can I validate this? I have been through the CWA books about how many units are "access inventory" units, but that doesn't explain if I truly can never see "Select or Fixed Week" inventory even at 10 months and closer at non-Access resorts (because again, told that all resorts have some access inventory if if they are not access resorts). Does this make any sense? Are my CWA only points not allowing me to book units identified as UDI inventory? Also, would owning even a small amount of points in a UDI contract (developer or resale) open more inventory up to me with my full point power of my membership including CWA points? There is no way to validate this that I can find on the website so I don't know if something behind the scenes actually differentiates the type of inventory and what I can or cannot see as a CWA only owner. Thank you for any help of clarity.

 

[davejulien]

So to clarify a bit more from the other thread. Part of us getting wrapped up in this was that we actually went through with a split contract purchase. Before the purchase I check availability at several different resorts. I then checked again after our contract was altered online and availability didn’t change. Not even a little bit. Curious I called Owner Services and they confirmed that within 10 months all inventory is treated the same regardless of ownership type. I went back to the sales rep 2 days later since were were still at the resort and rescinded the purchase. I also told him he need to stop selling based on this lie. He said this is how they are trained. It’s very sad to me that they continue with this lie 2 years later. Apparently it’s working well for them because they are not being called out on this and getting additional sales.

If this is a recent purchase for you I would rescind and call them out on this lie. I would also call Owner Services and complain and give the names of the sales reps. I’m sorry but I really do think they know full well what they are doing. They are telling you something you can’t easily verify to get a sale. I find the whole situation very sad. I’m quite happy with my single 1m point CWA contract. I have no problems getting into any location. With Clearwater now part of CWA we book during ARP to get it over Christmas each year. No issues this past year. Depending how many points you have in your split contract having it this divided may limit your CWA ARP choices. As you know you can only book CWA ARP for as many points you have.

Good luck. Sorry you were lied to. If you don’t rescind they win. The worst part is there is nothing in any contract you can point to. So unless you catch this in time you will have a purchase based fully on a lie.

 

[cschenk7]

So to clarify a bit more from the other thread. Part of us getting wrapped up in this was that we actually went through with a split contract purchase. Before the purchase I check availability at several different resorts. I then checked again after our contract was altered online and availability didn’t change. Not even a little bit. Curious I called Owner Services and they confirmed that within 10 months all inventory is treated the same regardless of ownership type. I went back to the sales rep 2 days later since were were still at the resort and rescinded the purchase. I also told him he need to stop selling based on this lie. He said this is how they are trained. It’s very sad to me that they continue with this lie 2 years later. Apparently it’s working well for them because they are not being called out on this and getting additional sales.

If this is a recent purchase for you I would rescind and call them out on this lie. I would also call Owner Services and complain and give the names of the sales reps. I’m sorry but I really do think they know full well what they are doing. They are telling you something you can’t easily verify to get a sale. I find the whole situation very sad. I’m quite happy with my single 1m point CWA contract. I have no problems getting into any location. With Clearwater now part of CWA we book during ARP to get it over Christmas each year. No issues this past year. Depending how many points you have in your split contract having it this divided may limit your CWA ARP choices. As you know you can only book CWA ARP for as many points you have.

Good luck. Sorry you were lied to. If you don’t rescind they win. The worst part is there is nothing in any contract you can point to. So unless you catch this in time you will have a purchase based fully on a lie.

Thank you for this clarification. I never went through with the purchase, just started posting here to get some feedback. We have changed from UDI to CWA to split and back to CWA only for various "reasons" based on the marketing strategy it seems. Overall we use and enjoy our ownership - we are just trying to get maximum value out of it, especially with the new program ahead. Its really difficult with the intricacies of the program when a wyndham rep really sells hard on one small aspect of our ownership concerns and is telling us something that is next to impossible to validate one way or the other. I have had a picture drawn for me at a few locations that shows a box with a split of inventory (select v access) and am told CWA only can use access inventory and select can only use select. I am thinking that is true, but ONLY during your ARP window. Is that right? Or does your contract only define if you can get a unit based on the point cost...regardless of where the inventory is rationed (select v access). This inventory piece is the most confusing part of this because you cant tell what type of unit you are selecting and I have yet to find a document that details "unit 1234 in tower x at Resort A is access inventory". I imagine that has to exist for Real Estate Law purposes, but if the owners dont know and can't see, how can they ration inventory that way?

The other thing I have been told is the points on the contract only matter during ARP, however the reservations are pulled from your membership number, not contract number. This means that if I have 300k points CWA and 154k points Select - I cannot book a 350k pt room in CWA ARP, but I should be able to book it during a reciprical ARP or at 10months.

I guess I am just still a little unsure on how inventory is segregated/rationed during the ARP window but then at 10 months magically opens up as a non-defined inventory unit.

I hope that makes sense....I know I am spinning a bit and did go in two directions. Any feedback or experience would be welcomed.

 

[davejulien]

You are correct. The CWA inventory only matters during the ARP period which is 13-10 months. During this time it’s considered your right to book early at your “home resort”. CWA has over 70 home resorts that you can tap into.

There is a very thick book that I’ve seen that lists inventory at every Wyndham location and room by point. This book is very thick like a telephone book for a large city. I’m not sure how you get ahold of it. I do know most of the books and documentation are on the Kindle these days. Maybe you can find it there. I looked and was unable to find it but I’ve seen it in print. I even think years ago they gave me a paper copy during our contract purchase.

As far as consolidating your contract points you are correct for RARP and booking out of the ARP period. RARP allows you advanced booking outside of your home resort at 11 months. They would have to combine all your contract points for this to work as intended.

Have you ever played around with the “points calculator” on the web site? You can put in various dates and it will tell you where it will pull inventory from based on your individual contract purchases. You can find it under My Ownership/Points. Try putting in 2 (express), 6 (standard), 11 (RARP), and 13 (ARP) months and see what applies. This should prove out the fact that a split contract is a bunch of bologna and is really just a sales tactic. The only time a split contract may work in your benefit is if you are looking for to book ARP at specific resort like Myrtle Beach as your home resort and it doesn’t exist in CWA inventory. Even if it did exist in CWA inventory you may benefit from the larger inventory that exists out of CWA by being a direct owner. I say this and I’ve never had any difficulty booking at a CWA resort during the ARP window. If I book Myrtle Beach I do it at 11 months and I’ve never had a problem.

All your questions are legit and is something that can certainly be confusing.

 

[Jan M.]

I'm sorry to disillusion anyone who thinks Wyndham doesn't know exactly what their salespeople do. Who do you think teaches them this stuff then turns a blind eye to what they do? And their butts are completely covered because none of it is in writing. Sales can get away with anything they tell owners or prospective buyers verbally. There is no accountability and don't expect that to change. It would be wonderful if it did but these abuses have been going on for 40 years. Please don't think I'm being bitter or cynical; I'm just stating the truth. The timeshare sales business is set up to perpetuate and condone these abuses. There are a number of ways Wyndham makes money off the timeshares but sales generates the most revenue. They aren't about to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. There are only two things I can remember changing with sales in the 17 years we've owned. I don't remember the exact year of the first one, 10-12 years ago? Sales were no longer permitted to roll resale purchases over into developer purchases when you bought more points from them. And more recently they are no longer allowed to talk about using your points to rent and offset your maintenance fees. However both of those things benefit sales not owners or buyers.

I'm going to repeat something I've said in different posts going back to when I first joined. Wyndham has an excellent product but you'd never know it from their sales tactics. I've always believed a good product will sell itself without resorting to lies and deceptive sales practices. They only perpetuate the bad reputation. Timeshare sales have earned every single bit of that bad reputation. I've said that with the internet, Facebook, and TUG anybody can easily find out what they need to know about timeshares before they buy. Yes Wyndham needs an entirely new business model. But how do you get your hands on a magic wand that you can wave and make 40 years of a bad rep disappear? Short of that I don't have an answer nor does anyone else. Read the thread in the TUG Lounge titled "Why are timeshares a scam??" For every happy owner, and I am one of them, there may likely be twice as many if not more unhappy owners. And that doesn't even take into consideration all the people who don't own but read and hear all the bad stuff and they know beyond a shadow of a doubt that timeshares are a scam and rip off. For years if it came up in conversation that we owned a timeshare people looked at us and talked like we were fools and idiots. Even the very same people who would ask how in the world we could afford to vacation like we did. The only thing I see bringing about a change in the sales practices in the timeshare industry is legislation.

 

[cschenk7]

You are correct. The CWA inventory only matters during the ARP period which is 13-10 months. During this time it’s considered your right to book early at your “home resort”. CWA has over 70 home resorts that you can tap into.

There is a very thick book that I’ve seen that lists inventory at every Wyndham location and room by point. This book is very thick like a telephone book for a large city. I’m not sure how you get ahold of it. I do know most of the books and documentation are on the Kindle these days. Maybe you can find it there. I looked and was unable to find it but I’ve seen it in print. I even think years ago they gave me a paper copy during our contract purchase.

As far as consolidating your contract points you are correct for RARP and booking out of the ARP period. RARP allows you advanced booking outside of your home resort at 11 months. They would have to combine all your contract points for this to work as intended.

Have you ever played around with the “points calculator” on the web site? You can put in various dates and it will tell you where it will pull inventory from based on your individual contract purchases. You can find it under My Ownership/Points. Try putting in 2 (express), 6 (standard), 11 (RARP), and 13 (ARP) months and see what applies. This should prove out the fact that a split contract is a bunch of bologna and is really just a sales tactic. The only time a split contract may work in your benefit is if you are looking for to book ARP at specific resort like Myrtle Beach as your home resort and it doesn’t exist in CWA inventory. Even if it did exist in CWA inventory you may benefit from the larger inventory that exists out of CWA by being a direct owner. I say this and I’ve never had any difficulty booking at a CWA resort during the ARP window. If I book Myrtle Beach I do it at 11 months and I’ve never had a problem.

All your questions are legit and is something that can certainly be confusing.

Thanks again for the reply! Yea, I have seen the book.

I actually never used the points calculator. Just checked it out. It does explain a little more BUT I'm not sure it answers the question about am I getting into a non-CWA resort at a designated CWA unit (standard window) which is all I can see, OR does the fact that it says I can book at any resort mean there is no differentiation between select and access units within 10 months. I agree thats how it appears to work...but I can't see anything in writing that defines it. I think that is the sales tactic I was being given...fear that I am missing out on opportunity of available units during standard or RARP windows because I am "allowed" to use select inventory.

It probably just comes down to is there really split inventory tiers BY UNIT, BY RESORT in the reservation system - or is that just split for real estate law purposes and potentially ARP purposes - while at 10 months there is no segration of select v access specific units at the resort. I was specifically told the most likely reason I didn't get my requested unit where I am staying now is because I only have CWA and it was likely not an access unit that I requested. I find that really hard to believe....but I just can't prove anything.

 

[davejulien]

On the web site go to Owner 101/Knowlegebase/Booking my Vacation. It’s here were you can see the definition of each of the reservation windows and what you can book. It looks like you have a handle on this.

If you use the Points Calculator and it says you are using CWA points then you are only pulling from CWA inventory. If you are in the RARP period you can pull from ALL inventory which includes CWA and non-CWA. Anything 10 months and under you are pulling from ALL inventory.

If you have a split contract and are in your ARP period (13-10 months) then you can book CWA inventory and inventory at your home deeded resort. Is this what you are asking? Booking at your home deeded resort would come from the Select inventory. If you happen to be deeded at a resort that is CWA then you will see ALL inventory during the ARP period for both CWA and Select. It’s kind of like a Venn diagram for what you will see as available. All this is more “by definition” of what your ownership is. You just have to look up CWA and deeded and sort of put it together. I’ve not see any easy to read document explaining it. Perhaps this is where the confusion comes in with new owners.

 

[e.bram]

If I own(and I others do) a fixed week at a Wyndham resort you will never get it even with a Zillion Wyndham points. If you want particular unit at a particular resort, BUY IT!

 

[dgalati]

I'm sorry to disillusion anyone who thinks Wyndham doesn't know exactly what their salespeople do. Who do you think teaches them this stuff then turns a blind eye to what they do? And their butts are completely covered because none of it is in writing. Sales can get away with anything they tell owners or prospective buyers verbally. There is no accountability and don't expect that to change. It would be wonderful if it did but these abuses have been going on for 40 years. Please don't think I'm being bitter or cynical; I'm just stating the truth. The timeshare sales business is set up to perpetuate and condone these abuses. There are a number of ways Wyndham makes money off the timeshares but sales generates the most revenue. They aren't about to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. There are only two things I can remember changing with sales in the 17 years we've owned. I don't remember the exact year of the first one, 10-12 years ago? Sales were no longer permitted to roll resale purchases over into developer purchases when you bought more points from them. And more recently they are no longer allowed to talk about using your points to rent and offset your maintenance fees. However both of those things benefit sales not owners or buyers.

I'm going to repeat something I've said in different posts going back to when I first joined. Wyndham has an excellent product but you'd never know it from their sales tactics. I've always believed a good product will sell itself without resorting to lies and deceptive sales practices. They only perpetuate the bad reputation. Timeshare sales have earned every single bit of that bad reputation. I've said that with the internet, Facebook, and TUG anybody can easily find out what they need to know about timeshares before they buy. Yes Wyndham needs an entirely new business model. But how do you get your hands on a magic wand that you can wave and make 40 years of a bad rep disappear? Short of that I don't have an answer nor does anyone else. Read the thread in the TUG Lounge titled "Why are timeshares a scam??" For every happy owner, and I am one of them, there may likely be twice as many if not more unhappy owners. And that doesn't even take into consideration all the people who don't own but read and hear all the bad stuff and they know beyond a shadow of a doubt that timeshares are a scam and rip off. For years if it came up in conversation that we owned a timeshare people looked at us and talked like we were fools and idiots. Even the very same people who would ask how in the world we could afford to vacation like we did. The only thing I see bringing about a change in the sales practices in the timeshare industry is legislation.

Good luck with this happening. Timeshare industry has good lobbyist. Legislation will never happen. TUGG has done more to stop the lies and deception then legislation will ever do. All the changes were not implemented to help owners but to help sales- you are right about this.

 

[davejulien]

Think about all the recommendations TUGG members have made to rescind how has this cost Wyndham and at what cost to existing members?

There is more than just TUGG members suggesting people to rescind. Wyndham need to turn this trend around for long term business reasons. Really hoping they don’t mess the new Privileges up.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[dgalati]

There is more than just TUGG members suggesting people to rescind. Wyndham need to turn this trend around for long term business reasons. Really hoping they don’t mess the new Privileges up.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Agreed. Why would anyone not recommend a rescind on a purchase when Wyndham sets the resale price at $0. Timeshares have a resale value of close to nothing. Of course Wyndham should make the Privileges a priority and take care of their VIP owners first they are after all the $ makers for sales.

 

[kaljor]

To finish up on the original question, I believe that the web site shows everyone all availability, but it won't let you book a week during the ARP period if you're using CWA points and there is no CWA inventory left. Instead you will get a mystery message saying something like "There is no availability at this location". Even though the calendar shows it as available.

I've encountered this just a couple of times when looking over possible trips 11 or 12 months in advance. I forget where it happens, but I think it was one or more of the Pompano Beach resorts. From reading this forum, I've come to learn that some of those resorts are smaller and there are a lot of folks who still own their original fixed weeks there, thus lowering the potential inventory for CWA. I think this might also be true of Newport.

But I've successfully booked units with CWA during ARP, so I suspect that it's only a few resorts. And even at that, I think if you are able to make your plans right at the 13 month mark or within a couple of weeks, you have a great chance of getting what you want.

I'm sorry to couch everything as "maybe", but there are a lot of things Wyndham doesn't tell us so we have to piece it together. One of the things they don't tell us is how much inventory at a given resort is allocated to CWA.

 

[cschenk7]

To finish up on the original question, I believe that the web site shows everyone all availability, but it won't let you book a week during the ARP period if you're using CWA points and there is no CWA inventory left. Instead you will get a mystery message saying something like "There is no availability at this location". Even though the calendar shows it as available.

I've encountered this just a couple of times when looking over possible trips 11 or 12 months in advance. I forget where it happens, but I think it was one or more of the Pompano Beach resorts. From reading this forum, I've come to learn that some of those resorts are smaller and there are a lot of folks who still own their original fixed weeks there, thus lowering the potential inventory for CWA. I think this might also be true of Newport.

But I've successfully booked units with CWA during ARP, so I suspect that it's only a few resorts. And even at that, I think if you are able to make your plans right at the 13 month mark or within a couple of weeks, you have a great chance of getting what you want.

I'm sorry to couch everything as "maybe", but there are a lot of things Wyndham doesn't tell us so we have to piece it together. One of the things they don't tell us is how much inventory at a given resort is allocated to CWA.

Thanks for that! Is it legal though to not disclose what type of inventory makes up the resort. Couldn't that lead to selling the same inventory twice?? I just would have thought that somewhere in some fine print they would need to define the inventory types from a legal real estate perspective? Ahhhh! so frustrating to play by the rules when the rules are nearly impossible to follow!

 

[Sandy VDH]

The CWA documents list unit number of units that are part of its inventory. Now what I don't know is that is it all 52 weeks of inventory or just some allotment of it.

They have to know what inventory is in which bucket, or they will end up double booking it. Perhaps that is the cause of some of the double booking issues, bad data entered or bad record keeping. I do not know that answer.

 

[OddYear]

I am a Wyndham CWA owner (new Discussion board member) and have been struggling with buying more points in a UDI contract because I have been told I am not seeing all the inventory at every resort because I can only see CWA Inventory.

Interesting. I am the owner of a single (Biennial Odd) UDI contract (bought from Wyndham ), not a CWA owner. I can't be "persuaded" into buying additional points any more regardless of whatever stories I am told (I shed a huge chunk of my "innocence" after experiencing Wyndham Sales - I really had no idea that such humans exist and do, what's considered, legitimate business) but when I went for an Owner Update last, I was told that I don't see as much availability as I would like to see because I DON'T have CWA. So all I needed to do was put in $50K more for this deal that was being specially offered to me only for the next hour or so......

Sure.