Interval International "Community" post on MVCD program [merged]

[pacheco18]

" I look forward to seeing if there are more sightings of weeks at Ocean Watch, Oceana Palms, Crystal Shores and any other new resorts that Marriott might open where the trust has the majority of their inventory. In the past, new resorts have been a more difficult trade for the first few years."

Now that would be a terrific result. I hope you're right about that.

I will be on the sidelines along with many of you. Nothing I have read thus far has enticed me to drink the Koolaid. I think staying with weeks and playing the II system well is a fine option.

 

[DB-Wis]

I also plan to remain "on the sidelines" for now -- not because I see anything wrong or bad with the the new system, but because the "legacy" system suits my needs just fine at this time. I'm glad to have the options offered by the new system, but there just not something I want to pursue at this time. Who knows what the future will bring.

 

[Dave M]

Guess I'll have to ask them why the Marriott priority has gone away

The Marriott internal exchange priority has not gone away. See this thread, especially my post for an explanation as to why you can sometimes see Marriott weeks (and could in the past) that are not eligible for the priority. Two II Marriott reps have also confirmed to me that there has been no change to the priority period. It still exists just as it has for many years.

 

[camachinist]

Dave, with due respect, I form my own conclusions based on my own data. Experienced TUG'ers seem to be scratching their heads too. We're watching this very carefully. I really don't care what II and Marriott say. They *said* a lot to sell us two developer weeks. I'm not that person anymore.

 

[dougp26364]

The Marriott internal exchange priority has not gone away. See this thread, especially my post for an explanation as to why you can sometimes see Marriott weeks (and could in the past) that are not eligible for the priority. Two II Marriott reps have also confirmed to me that there has been no change to the priority period. It still exists just as it has for many years.

That's what I thought but, I couldn't confirm it anywhere and, it wasn't a priority for me. I've never thought if it as that big of a deal. Many of my better exchanges have come from online searches. Only two have come from request first exchanges where the Marriott priority came into play.

Should we join the new program (and I'm reasonably certain we will), for at least 2012 and 2013 the Marriott proirity will most likely come into play. My plans will be to strike while the iron is hot as far as making exchanges we want while fee's are lower to recover our initial investment in joining the new program.

One thing I'm having difficulty with, and it's not the major of a problem, is deciding where I'd want to go in exchange for the 2 bedroom master suite at Grand Chateau. Somehow of another I'm sure we'll come up with something that's equal in value.

 

[kjd]

Speculation about point system

Don't know the ultimate affect upon II members but several trades reported here seem to indicate not much of a change so far. As things ramp up further and if additonal changes to the Marriott trading system are made, some of these fears that folks are speculating about may become a reality. Right now most of them are unfounded.

For all practical purposes the high season trades for 2011 weeks are more than 50% completed. Some may say that's not the case but even under the old system there was no guarantee of filling a prime season request first trade and certainly no assurance of a prime season trade less than twelve months in advance. The only exception to that imho are the flextime trades. The prime season 2011 flextime trades are too far away at present to know much about them.

Speculation here is that because of the new system lock-off studios would be tougher to trade and no longer able to command an upgrade unless in flextime. Several recent trades reported here have continued to indicate that it is still possible for a studio to command a one or two bedroom unit. I just traded a MGV studio for a one bedroom Ocean Point for Thanksgiving week, 2010. The real effects of the new internal trading system may not be known for several years. The only thing that speculation has done for us so far is to further reduce the resale values of our units. That may be a good reason for not joining the new points system and just wait to see what happens.

 

[dougp26364]

Don't know the ultimate affect upon II members but several trades reported here seem to indicate not much of a change so far. As things ramp up further and if additonal changes to the Marriott trading system are made, some of these fears that folks are speculating about may become a reality. Right now most of them are unfounded.

For all practical purposes the high season trades for 2011 weeks are more than 50% completed. Some may say that's not the case but even under the old system there was no guarantee of filling a prime season request first trade and certainly no assurance of a prime season trade less than twelve months in advance. The only exception to that imho are the flextime trades. The prime season 2011 flextime trades are too far away at present to know much about them.

Speculation here is that because of the new system lock-off studios would be tougher to trade and no longer able to command an upgrade unless in flextime. Several recent trades reported here have continued to indicate that it is still possible for a studio to command a one or two bedroom unit. I just traded a MGV studio for a one bedroom Ocean Point for Thanksgiving week, 2010. The real effects of the new internal trading system may not be known for several years. The only thing that speculation has done for us so far is to further reduce the resale values of our units. That may be a good reason for not joining the new points system and just wait to see what happens.

I'm not sure we'll really know the effect for several years. It's only been what, 3 weeks. That's not a lot of time for a good judgement of the effects. To be honest, I'm not convinced there's really going to be any big impact. Interval has stated they're not going to play favorites (we'll see as time goes on) and, Marriott quickly found out that online access for owners to make their own exchanges was actually important to a significant amount of owners so, they are suppose to be correcting that issue.

Most of our exchanges up have come from online searches rather than deposit or request first searches. If I still have online access and, if Interval doesn't change it's rules then I suspect TUGGERS will still be able to work the same old system to their advantage by doing their own searches and using flexability in their planning.

 

[5infam]

I am glad that II came out and made the statement. As much as I can trust what anyone says, I think/hope this is the case; that things should not change for us weeks owners. It makes sense to me that II would want to make this clear in an effort to keep our business, and keep us paying II directly. My guess is that II will not make as much off of us if we sign up with Marriott on the points program, so it would be in their best interest to keep us on the II fee schedule and collect from us directly.

This is really good news for me, as the new points system costs me more in fees than I pay II, and with II I get my AC's, so that is extra cheap vacation time that I can't get with points. Plus I save with not having to pay the $1,495 enrollment fee - so no points is the stand for me as of now - subject to change of course!!

 

[m61376]

I'm also glad that II came out with that statement. I think they realize that Marriott's written rules make the policy kind of nebulous.

The question is, even with online access, will the club II account function the same? Will there be offers for AC's and the xyz promo? Or will things be a little more limited?

 

[timeos2]

How has trusting Marriott & II gone so far? Now you trust them more?

Isn't it amazing that Interval is able to clarify what Marriott has thus far refused to clarify.

The only concern I have is that Marriott's exchange manager is going to have a better understanding of what "exchange power" is required and will have the inventory to trump whatever I have relinquished for exchange. Essentially, trading up might be a bit more difficult (or maybe not). Then again, no one ever promised that trading up would always be an option. Like for like exchanges is suppose to be the norm anyway.

Leaving two groups with self interests that directly conflict with the paying members best interest in charge - in secret - has to be the ultimate in trust. And how have those very same groups done in the past protecting members / owners rights and maximizing value? Suddenly they are to be trusted to put an individual member, who is easily sold on the idea that "there is nothing in that area at that time", over the monster with the keys to the kingdom dangling for the taking if they just produce the desired time in an "equal" trade? Behind closed doors?

Far more trusting than I would be. There is no way I'd give up a decent deposit to II in this environment with no strings attached. Zero. They get the trade I need (request first) or they don't get my week(s). End of story. Place and hope is dead (if it wasn't already). II inventory was already picked clean before paying members got a shot at it - now there is another monster priority player taking first bite before anyone else knows the apple is ready to pick.

 

[Cobra1950]

Well if you put yourself in II's shoes, Marriott is taking away a significant part of their business and it is in II's interest to maintain as much as that as possible for as long as possible. However II must realize that Marriott wants to cut them out of the transaction long term and II must develop new loyalty with Marriott owners that Marriott has abandoned with the new program.
So, I would suggest TUG members that want to maintain as much of the old system as possible should support II and advise their positive comments on their website, since at least II seems to have an interest in responding to its' customers concerns and Marriott for some strange reason seems to be a "deer in headlights", frozen, as they realize with the new program they stepped out in front of a train at night
I certainly was not a great II fan, but at least the program made sense and seemed to work, so I will certainly do what I can to support them

 

[timeos2]

Lets get the competition going

Well if you put yourself in II's shoes, Marriott is taking away a significant part of their business and it is in II's interest to maintain as much as that as possible for as long as possible. However II must realize that Marriott wants to cut them out of the transaction long term and II must develop new loyalty with Marriott owners that Marriott has abandoned with the new program.
So, I would suggest TUG members that want to maintain as much of the old system as possible should support II and advise their positive comments on their website, since at least II seems to have an interest in responding to its' customers concerns and Marriott for some strange reason seems to be a "deer in headlights", frozen, as they realize with the new program they stepped out in front of a train at night
I certainly was not a great II fan, but at least the program made sense and seemed to work, so I will certainly do what I can to support them

The more I think about this where owners ought to be going is opening the whole Marriott system to freedom of exchange opportunities. Since Marriott themselves have now added a new option and some older Marriotts already have two major options (RCI and II as affiliations) why not push your Association to affiliate with RCI if it isn't one of the lucky ones that already has that option? There is no cost. It becomes just another one of many options for trading your ownership use but it would be one that many owners would like to have either because they already have another resort in RCI or because they want access to the much larger inventory and resort count that RCI offers over II.

It is understandable that when a resort is new the developer might choose to affiliate with only one official exchange company. But once the resort is more or less sold out and owners now control the Board/operations (at least in theory) why not offer another often attractive option for membership in the largest exchange system? This is a move I would urge every Marriott owner to press their respective HOA Board to make. Competition is good and helps keep the players honest.

 

[dougp26364]

Leaving two groups with self interests that directly conflict with the paying members best interest in charge - in secret - has to be the ultimate in trust. And how have those very same groups done in the past protecting members / owners rights and maximizing value? Suddenly they are to be trusted to put an individual member, who is easily sold on the idea that "there is nothing in that area at that time", over the monster with the keys to the kingdom dangling for the taking if they just produce the desired time in an "equal" trade? Behind closed doors?

Far more trusting than I would be. There is no way I'd give up a decent deposit to II in this environment with no strings attached. Zero. They get the trade I need (request first) or they don't get my week(s). End of story. Place and hope is dead (if it wasn't already). II inventory was already picked clean before paying members got a shot at it - now there is another monster priority player taking first bite before anyone else knows the apple is ready to pick.

I agree with utilizing request first as an exchange method. It's going to take some time to sort out exactly what's happening behind the scenes. One of the values of TUG is that members can compare what they're seeing with each program. If Interval isn't being upfront and honest, it won't take long for TUG members to sniff it out.

It's also a reason to consider the power of the DC and a corporate account vs staying with a personal account. It's a little harder to put a finger on and it's essentially pure speculation but, if a person believes they're safer with a personal account or a corporate account, it's another thing to consider when making the decision to join or not to join.

 

[Cobra1950]

Timeos2
Excellent suggestion on the RCI affiliation!:whoopie: I agree competition is good and looks like Marriott is cutting loose the bulk of their customer base to fend for themselves if they will not join the new program.
I will send a note to our Board President suggesting they discuss the RCI option next meeting. Annual dues there and to II are so little compared to what Marriott is demanding as entry fees for the new program it is almost a "no brainer" in giving us formerly loyal Marriott owners better alternatives.

 

[windje2000]

Timeos2
Excellent suggestion on the RCI affiliation!:whoopie: I agree competition is good and looks like Marriott is cutting loose the bulk of their customer base to fend for themselves if they will not join the new program.
I will send a note to our Board President suggesting they discuss the RCI option next meeting. Annual dues there and to II are so little compared to what Marriott is demanding as entry fees for the new program it is almost a "no brainer" in giving us formerly loyal Marriott owners better alternatives.

Maybe joining RCI is one of the things MVCI had in mind when they wrote the 'you agree never to vote for actions detrimental to the points plan' part of the DClub terms and condition.

Joining RCI - interesting test to see how DCLub reacts!

 

[taffy19]

I agree with utilizing request first as an exchange method. It's going to take some time to sort out exactly what's happening behind the scenes. One of the values of TUG is that members can compare what they're seeing with each program. If Interval isn't being upfront and honest, it won't take long for TUG members to sniff it out.

It's also a reason to consider the power of the DC and a corporate account vs staying with a personal account. It's a little harder to put a finger on and it's essentially pure speculation but, if a person believes they're safer with a personal account or a corporate account, it's another thing to consider when making the decision to join or not to join.

Request first is not an option if you use the Marriott to make an exchange so I asked II if I could still deposit my week in my personal account, if I were to enroll with the new program. We have to keep the account anyway because we own non Marriott resorts and like their get-aways. He asked his Supervisor and the answer is yes. I would lose my fixed week/unit with the Marriott if they don't find the lock-off unit for the right date. I will not take that chance either, Doug.

 

[dougp26364]

Request first is not an option if you use the Marriott to make an exchange so I asked II if I could still deposit my week in my personal account, if I were to enroll with the new program. We have to keep the account anyway because we own non Marriott resorts and like their get-aways. He asked his Supervisor and the answer is yes. I would lose my fixed week/unit with the Marriott if they don't find the lock-off unit for the right date. I will not take that chance either, Doug.

I'm not sure who told you this but I'm pretty positive they told you wrong. Request first isn't an option if you're using points. If you join the DC but continue to opperate in the weeks exchange system, you can still utilize request first, just like you can with your personal account. At least that's how I'm understanding it right now and what I've been told more than once by Marriott.

The thing is, none of us are 100% certain of anything at this point. Marriott didn't do a good job of educating their employee's and owners are getting mixed signals. It's why we haven't signed up yet and it's why I'm going to wait until we're at our home resort in November before making my final decision. There's nothing wrong with waiting and I don't believe they'll be a cost to owners who bought direct from the developer.

 

[bobpark56]

Should we join the new program (and I'm reasonably certain we will), for at least 2012 and 2013 the Marriott proirity will most likely come into play. My plans will be to strike while the iron is hot as far as making exchanges we want while fee's are lower to recover our initial investment in joining the new program.

I see that you also own non-Marriott properties. How do you plan to trade these properties if you join Marriott Points? Will you be maintaining dual II memberships...and paying for both?

It seems to me that this is a major deterrence to joining Marriott Points.

 

[dioxide45]

I'm not sure who told you this but I'm pretty positive they told you wrong. Request first isn't an option if you're using points. If you join the DC but continue to opperate in the weeks exchange system, you can still utilize request first, just like you can with your personal account. At least that's how I'm understanding it right now and what I've been told more than once by Marriott.

The thing is, none of us are 100% certain of anything at this point. Marriott didn't do a good job of educating their employee's and owners are getting mixed signals. It's why we haven't signed up yet and it's why I'm going to wait until we're at our home resort in November before making my final decision. There's nothing wrong with waiting and I don't believe they'll be a cost to owners who bought direct from the developer.

This is on page 5 of the II buyers guide. It appears you don't give up your points until you are confirmed with II for your exchange. This would be request first.

Points-Based Exchange Method (applicable to all Club Program Trust Members
and those Club Program Exchange Members choosing to continue to receive
their exchange benefits based on the relinquishment of Points)
1. These Club Program Members utilize an exchange method, often
referred to as Request First, whereby they do not give up their Points
until an exchange has been confirmed.

 

[Dean]

This is on page 5 of the II buyers guide. It appears you don't give up your points until you are confirmed with II for your exchange. This would be request first.

This is the day DVC worked with II for MOST instances. You could do deposit first but unless you had expiring points, it was nuts to do so.