Inheritance Help

[CMLimparis]

I will try to make this short, but forgive me if I wander, it's been a long ugly road so far. Let me start however, with a brief introduction.

I have been a tug members since the early 2000's, but have been predominately a reader. This may in fact be my first post. My wife and I own numerous weeks at a resort in Key Largo (Port Largo Villas) and, having followed the sage advice here (Buy used, buy what you want, buy where you want to be, buy when you want to be there) we have been mostly happy with our purchases.

Now to the issue at hand. My Father In Law owned three weeks at the Desert Club in Las Vegas at the time of his passing last year. The units are in the RCI points system. Two of the units earn 169,000 points a year and the third earns 154,000 per year, for a total of 492,000 points per year. There are no outstanding mortgages on the units, they are paid off. We have been trying to figure out what to do with these units for almost a year and are getting absolutely no help what so ever from Orange Lake Management. More run around than actual help. We have met some very nice people associated with Holiday Inn Club who certainly seem to want to help, but they either truly don't know what we need to know, or are afraid to tell us what they do know. Truly a dark business!

At this point, the units are all delinquent on the maintenance fees, owing approx $600.00 each for the 2015 fees plus approximately $350.00 each in penalties, plus the $151.00 due to Holiday Inn Club. The estate doesn't have the funds to clear the debts and we don't want to pay out of pocket until we have a clear path to changing ownership and what it will cost.

What we have discovered in Nevada is that it will cost about $1,700.00 to run them through Probate. Add that to the approximately $600.00 each in 2016 maintenance fees and the $151.00 to Holiday Inn Club and we are looking at another $1,950.00 for next year. So, in round numbers, the total cost to us to transfer these units to us is approximately $6,650.00, At that point, we would own the three units and have 984,000 points. This is assuming that the 492,000 points from 2014 expire and we retain the 2015 and 2016 points.

While I understand that each person has to make their own decision as to what this would be worth to them, I am at a total loss trying to gauge whether these units have enough value to pursue the transfers or if we should just abandon them and let Orange Lake and the Holiday Inn Club foreclose. At the moment, foreclosure seems like the easy way out as it just makes it go away. But, I certainly don't want to be stupid either.

I would really appreciate everyone's opinions on this as we are rapidly reaching the make or break point.

Thanks for listening,

SaltyDog

P.S. If any of you know a way to get these through probate for less than $1,700.00 or if you know a good, fair, attorney in Las Vegas, I would appreciate that information as well.

 

[presley]

I would let them foreclose. Just make sure you never sign anything that says you will take them.

If you want to add more timeshares for yourself, you can do it a lot easier and for less money by bidding on Ebay.

 

[CMLimparis]

That was primarily my take on it as well. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't underestimating the value of the points. I know that not all of the units there are in the points system and the reason my FIL owned three, was they transferred the two he already owned into the points system basically for free, assuming he bought the third week, at only 1/2 retail!

Thanks for your opinion and please keep the opinions coming! I have to leave the keyboard for a while as I am actually in Las Vegas at a convention. Couldn't even stay at the resort as we aren't on any of the ownership documents. How's that for a kick in the head.

 

[theo]

OP:
You are under absolutely no legal obligation whatsoever to accept this inheritance, unless you have already undertaken some overt action to use it or in some other way benefit from it.

With competent legal assistance, you can (must, actually) simply file a Disclaimer of Interest, which must be an overt refusal, expressed in writing and under signature, to accept that which was intended by your folks to be "inherited". The decision, once expressed and conveyed in writing, is irrevocable.

I suggest that you consult with an attorney familiar with estate matters and not continue to just run around in circles with under-informed / clueless resort personnel, which will get you nowhere except mounting bills, frustration and confusion.

Good luck.

 

[Passepartout]

While I agree that no one has to accept any bequeath, this is a HELLOFALOT of points. At, oh say, 30, 000 per week which I find pretty average, would get you something like 15 weeks of time in 1 bedroom units, less, of course in more deluxe or larger units.

The MF seems reasonable, and even with exchange fees of a couple hundred$ a week, that would be one way to escape winter. Of course if Las Vegas has appeal, there is no additional cost to use them where they are.

Just a thought.

Jim

 

[CMLimparis]

OP:
You are under absolutely no legal obligation whatsoever to accept this inheritance, unless you have already undertaken some overt action to use it or in some other way benefit from it.

With competent legal assistance, you can (must, actually) simply file a Disclaimer of Interest, which must be an overt refusal, expressed in writing and under signature, to accept that which was intended by your folks to be "inherited". The decision, once expressed and conveyed in writing, is irrevocable.

I suggest that you consult with an attorney familiar with estate matters and not continue to just run around in circles with under-informed / clueless resort personnel, which will get you nowhere except mounting bills, frustration and confusion.

Good luck.

Thanks for the response and I do understand that there is no obligation on our part. In fact, probably the only helpful thing we learned from Orange Lake was that if we absolutely didn't want them, they would provide what we needed in order expedite the foreclosure. That in itself set off a red flag. Call me jaded, but whenever the people you are negotiating with offer to help you do something that you believe is not in their best interest, you are probably missing something. All I can figure is that if we do nothing, it will take them a lot longer, and cost them more money, to foreclose. We can "Help Them" by signing the documents to facilitate the foreclosure. I am not sure how it might help us, other than to clear it off the books.

I do have an attorney in Maryland, where we live and where my FIL resided at the time of his passing, which was also in Maryland. His will, filled 20+ years ago was also in Maryland, and probate was opened in Maryland. However, because these are deeded in Nevada, we need the "Ancillary Probate" in Nevada to clear this up. These timeshares are his only assets (liabilities actually) in Nevada. I do need to confer with my attorney in Maryland again when I get back, but he may not be able to help solve the problem in Nevada.

Thanks again. If I have learned anything so far, its to make sure that I don't leave a similar mess for my kids!

 

[CMLimparis]

While I agree that no one has to accept any bequeath, this is a HELLOFALOT of points. At, oh say, 30, 000 per week which I find pretty average, would get you something like 15 weeks of time in 1 bedroom units, less, of course in more deluxe or larger units.

The MF seems reasonable, and even with exchange fees of a couple hundred$ a week, that would be one way to escape winter. Of course if Las Vegas has appeal, there is no additional cost to use them where they are.

Just a thought.

Jim

That was my concern with abandonment, it's a hell of a lot of points. My remark above about Orange Lake being willing to assist with the foreclosure just nags at me that we are missing something important. Having never dealt with either RCI or their points, or IHG and their points (These points transfer 5:4) I just have no way to know how to put a value on anything. Truly a dilemma.

Thanks again for the opposite point of view. It's helpful for us in making an informed decision. I just wish I had started this thread 8 months ago!

 

[ronparise]

so I see 3 possible paths you can take.

1) You can do as Theo suggests and let the resort know you arent accepting this inheritance and let them take it back; or 2) do nothing and let them foreclose or 3) you can pay for probate, pay the maintenance fees and take the ownership yourself

It seems you already knew this but have not been convinced there arent other choices. You are suspicious of the advice coming from the resort, and as you say, Its a lot of points to just walk away from.

So the unanswered question (that only you can answer) is: What do you want the end result to be.

If you want to own this stuff, and if it would cost you more than $6000 to duplicate with secondary market purchases; find the money and make it happen.

If you dont want it under any circumstances; sign the paper and let it go.

If you want it but no way its worth $6000 to you, (or you cant raise the $6000), sign the paper and let it go.

The choice you dont have is to own it for any less than the $6000 and all the talking to the resort attorneys and us, wont change that

Im not sure your Md attorney can offer you any other choices


good luck with your decision

 

[theo]

<snip> You can do as Theo suggests and let the resort know you arent accepting this inheritance and let them take it back; or...<snip>

To address this incorrect third party summary of my own words, let me be very clear that Theo did not "suggest" any such thing. Instead, I simply pointed out that there is no actual obligation to accept the inheritance (an objective observation of irrefutable legal fact) and I identified the mechanism by which refusal, if chosen as an option, would be appropriately exercised, presumably with the assistance and guidance of competent legal counsel.

If I should ever need a FL real estate agent to speak and / or summarize for me on matters of law, I'll be sure to let you know (...don't hold your breath while waiting).

 

[Tank]

Salty Dog (PM me if you want to talk about this, HIVC is the only system I know)

If you are not into timesharing just look into best ways to get out like Theo says here, its good advise ! but if you liked them ,,,,,

It sounds to me like these might have already been converted to Holiday Inn Vacation Club points (HIVC)
They bought before HIVC took over, HIVC offered a $200 conversion fee to the system. Your MF's are GREAT for that many points if HIVC
The points you show, if they are HIVC, have a GREAT value to YOU as a family member only, If it is HIVC points it must be sold, or given to family to keep the points and status at this resort and maintain the level of membership. Points will not go with a outside sale and these are $1 on ebay.

Example would be my 2 bedroom unit 166,000 HIVC points > RCI points only 83,000 points (2 to 1 ratio)

I would make sure because if this is HIVC points you would be at a very high level. People try very hard to get this membership. To do so costs some BIG BUCKS !
Only if you like timeshare vacation though. Also HIVC allows you to rent, its not easy, but you could recoup vacation cost by doing so.

So the system if it is HIVC can not be used if not payed up to date, but if it were the old points could be used, expire in 2 years. 2014 points will expire at the end of the year.
It would cost $50,000 to get to that membership level with that amount of points with HIVC if they were true HIVC points, they should be @ the preferred membership status.

>> Membership Levels
Membership up to 299,000 points
As a Club Member, you have access to many benefits and privileges, such as:

Gold Elite membership in IHG® Rewards Club (a $50 value)
Access to Signature Collection portfolio based on membership level (subject to availability)
Hertz #1 Club Gold® Membership with expedited rental car pickup, instant returns, special discounts, plus earn free rentals and more
Book Orange Lake Resort tee times in advance
Access to RCI® Points/RCI Weeks and/or Interval International® exchange affiliate programs
Extend your expiring Club Points six months from expiration (fee applies;
available Oct. 1)

Preferred Membership 300,000 to 499,000 points
You enjoy all of the benefits of the membership level, along with these additional benefits:

Priority seating at select member resort restaurants
Free 3-night stay each year
One reservation upgrade each year
10% Rebate on one RCI Points reservation each year
10% Advanced booking window discount
Extra 4% savings for discounted MAXtime offers
Use Club Points like cash for resort amenities (available 3/31/15)
Use Club Points for up to $250 in maintenance fee credits
Rent up to 60% annual of Club Points allotment
Dedicated servicing team of counselors
Access to Signature Collection portfolio 90 days prior to check-in

Premier Membership 500,000 to 749,000 points
You enjoy the benefits of Preferred membership, plus these additional benefits:

Early check-in/late check-out (when available)
Expedited check-in at exclusive Club Lounge (at participating resorts)
Free 4-night stay each year
Two reservation upgrades each year
15% Rebate on RCI Points reservations
15% Advanced booking window discount
10% Signature Collection discount
Extra 6% savings for discounted MAXtime offers
Use more Club Points like cash for resort amenities (available 3/31/15)
Use Club Points for up to $500 in maintenance fee credits
Rent up to 75% annual of Club Points allotment
Extended Club Partner booking window, as close as 7 days prior to check-in
Access Signature Collection portfolio 6 months prior to check-in
Access to The Registry Collection® program (with Signature Collection ownership)

 

[ronparise]

To address this incorrect third party summary of my own words, let me be very clear that Theo did not "suggest" any such thing. Instead, I simply pointed out that there is no actual obligation to accept the inheritance (an objective observation of irrefutable legal fact) and I identified the mechanism by which refusal, if chosen as an option, would be appropriately exercised, presumably with the assistance and guidance of competent legal counsel.

If I should ever need a FL real estate agent to speak and / or summarize for me on matters of law, I'll be sure to let you know (...don't hold your breath while waiting).

sorry Theo, when you said "With competent legal assistance, you can (must, actually) simply file a Disclaimer of Interest, which must be an overt refusal, expressed in writing and under signature, to accept that which was intended by your folks to be "inherited"."

i assumed you meant that one choice the op had was to refuse the inheritance> and I further assumed that somewhere in the process (done with "competent legal assistance") the resort would be notified of the ops decision

I wasnt disagreeing with anything you said, nor was I summarizing what you said, I was referring the op to your post for the details regarding one of the choices I see for the op, In fact Im not giving any advice at all, Im just trying to summarize the ops choices

in your expert legal opinion does the op have any other choices than the ones I mentioned?

1) With competent legal assistance, you can (must, actually) simply file a Disclaimer of Interest, which must be an overt refusal, expressed in writing and under signature, to accept that which was intended by your folks to be "inherited".

2) pay past fees, pay a Nevada lawyer (to probate) and take ownership

3) do nothing and let the hoa foreclose on the estate.

By the way, dont come to me for real estate advise. I wont work with lawyers, nor will I rent to one

 

[Tank]

That was my concern with abandonment, it's a hell of a lot of points. My remark above about Orange Lake being willing to assist with the foreclosure just nags at me that we are missing something important. Having never dealt with either RCI or their points, or IHG and their points (These points transfer 5:4) I just have no way to know how to put a value on anything. Truly a dilemma.

this tells me he was a HIVC points owner, Orange lake would love to see you fall thru the cracks and these not having any value again.
those points can reserve you 10 vacation weeks or more if done right $94 reservation fee's mind you.
He had a good plan as I do to share my vacation with my family for many years but I plan on educating my kids on how it works so this does not happen.

 

[CMLimparis]

That was my concern with abandonment, it's a hell of a lot of points. My remark above about Orange Lake being willing to assist with the foreclosure just nags at me that we are missing something important. Having never dealt with either RCI or their points, or IHG and their points (These points transfer 5:4) I just have no way to know how to put a value on anything. Truly a dilemma.

this tells me he was a HIVC points owner, Orange lake would love to see you fall thru the cracks and these not having any value again.
those points can reserve you 10 vacation weeks or more if done right $94 reservation fee's mind you.
He had a good plan as I do to share my vacation with my family for many years but I plan on educating my kids on how it works so this does not happen.

I checked with my wife and they are HICV points. Yet again, another layer of the onion is peeled back to reveal....more onion!

Thanks everyone for their comments so far. I will send you a PM in a few days when I get done with the convention. I have lots of meetings for the remainder of the week. I would appreciate the insight of a veteran of the HIVC trenches!

My wife and I had hoped, futilely it seems, that we would have been able to get this process moving during the coupe of days we set aside on the front end of this trip. As I am sure you can tell, we were not particularly successful!

I would love to hear from anyone else who has been through this, but I suspect most of those who have, were not TUG members as I suspect the search function would yield thousands of threads!

Thanks again to everyone.

 

[johndeb]

I checked with my wife and they are HICV points. Yet again, another layer of the onion is peeled back to reveal....more onion!

Thanks everyone for their comments so far. I will send you a PM in a few days when I get done with the convention. I have lots of meetings for the remainder of the week. I would appreciate the insight of a veteran of the HIVC trenches!

My wife and I had hoped, futilely it seems, that we would have been able to get this process moving during the coupe of days we set aside on the front end of this trip. As I am sure you can tell, we were not particularly successful!

I would love to hear from anyone else who has been through this, but I suspect most of those who have, were not TUG members as I suspect the search function would yield thousands of threads!

Thanks again to everyone.

As others have already mentioned, this decision really comes down to whether or not owning timeshares at HIVC has any appeal to you and your family? If so, the HIVC contracts you mention at Desert Club are some of the most valuable in the HIVC system. NOT as a resale, because these will NOT transfer to a new owner as HIVC points. But the points transfer with full benefits with an inheritance. These have a very low maintenance fee cost per point. However, if you decide you want to become an owner with HIVC and take advantage of the numerous benefits of a 492,000 Point membership, I would be happy to talk with you about utilizing what you would own to it's potential. Be adsvised that HIVC points are good for 2 years, so 2014 points do not expire until 12/31/2016. Also, HIVC points can be deposited into an IHG Account where they never expire. This HIVC 492,000 point membership would be very expensive to duplicate. I'm sure HIVC would love to take back these contracts to sell them again to someone else at $20K apiece!

My condolences to you and family.

 

[raygo123]

Thanks for the response and I do understand that there is no obligation on our part. In fact, probably the only helpful thing we learned from Orange Lake was that if we absolutely didn't want them, they would provide what we needed in order expedite the foreclosure. That in itself set off a red flag. Call me jaded, but whenever the people you are negotiating with offer to help you do something that you believe is not in their best interest, you are probably missing something. All I can figure is that if we do nothing, it will take them a lot longer, and cost them more money, to foreclose. We can "Help Them" by signing the documents to facilitate the foreclosure. I am not sure how it might help us, other than to clear it off the books.

I do have an attorney in Maryland, where we live and where my FIL resided at the time of his passing, which was also in Maryland. His will, filled 20+ years ago was also in Maryland, and probate was opened in Maryland. However, because these are deeded in Nevada, we need the "Ancillary Probate" in Nevada to clear this up. These timeshares are his only assets (liabilities actually) in Nevada. I do need to confer with my attorney in Maryland again when I get back, but he may not be able to help solve the problem in Nevada.

Thanks again. If I have learned anything so far, its to make sure that I don't leave a similar mess for my kids!

See if you can work out a deal where you give them one, your choice or theres. Can be a possibility. In return they handle all needed papers. No cost. The rack price, is over $20,000 each. That would leave them a nice profit. May fit your MF butget better, or your travel, and or if you'd rent all or some.
I wish I had your problem, and poor parents.

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