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Important message for Carriage Hills and Carriage Ridge owners

CSB

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Today there was a court application to have BDO appointed to restructure Hills and Ridge so that the resort will be able to continue for the time being under court supervision and find a solution to the problems that all owners should be aware of. I am not going into detail here. Owners need to register themselves with BDO so that they will be able to be contacted. BDO as representative of the court, will want to know how many owners want to exit from ownership, how many would like it to continue and how many are not sure. Please let anyone you know who owns at either resort that they should do this. Here is a link to register. https://www.bdo.ca/en-ca/extranets/carriage/
 

falcon

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Please follow the conversation here for updates by an Owner/Lawyer. We are hoping this is quick process that will allow those who want to leave a graceful exit and a resort restructure for those who want to stay under different terms including the perpetuity clause gone. We are very happy that we are FINALLY being listened to!

 

cd5

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Ironwood

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Drove by Hills and Ridge this afternoon coming back from up north. Only a couple of cars at Hills and 3 or 4 outside Ridge. No sign of anyone. I've never seen the twin resort complex so empty!
 

Maple_Leaf

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I guess the coronavirus has finally put a fork into this timeshare operation.
 

moonstone

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Article in our local paper this morning.

It looks like lots of owners want out and I wouldn't be surprised if the 2 resorts end up ceasing to exist and sold off as condos just like what happened with The Lodges at Horseshoe (if that was the name), which was a timeshare at the entrance to Horseshoe Resort, many years ago. As far as I know the remaining owners of those units got nothing when it was sold to be converted to condos.


~Diane
 

TUGBrian

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just about to post this, I hope this provides some resolution for so many owners!
 

falcon

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We are so happy with this result. Finally those that want to exit their deeded timeshare can do so. and if there are enough people that want to stay for a restructure, the resorts will be healthier. This is amazing news. Please join us at our Facebook group, carriage hills/Carriage Ridge restructuring - litigation update to follow along with the process by owner (and lawyer by profession) Chris
 

kyee

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Article in our local paper this morning.

It looks like lots of owners want out and I wouldn't be surprised if the 2 resorts end up ceasing to exist and sold off as condos just like what happened with The Lodges at Horseshoe (if that was the name), which was a timeshare at the entrance to Horseshoe Resort, many years ago. As far as I know the remaining owners of those units got nothing when it was sold to be converted to condos.


~Diane
Yes, I was one of them, got ZERO back and more legal fees, so let's ALL vote EXIT and get out of there to save more money for other travels when time permits
 

falcon

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Some members decided a lawyer was in order and spent a lot of money and got nothing for it. The offer on the table is very fair especially when you see what's happening in the industry. Let's hope common sense prevails. Owners who want to exit will not have to pay their 2021 maintenance fees but will have to pay a small exit fee. Those who want to see what the restructuring plan looks like will pay their 2021 fees and have that use year but can still opt out for the cost of the exit fee if they are not happy. It's a win-win-win. And that's not something you hear in timeshare everyday!
 
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karibkeith

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Drove by Hills and Ridge this afternoon coming back from up north. Only a couple of cars at Hills and 3 or 4 outside Ridge. No sign of anyone. I've never seen the twin resort complex so empty!
A friend is a long time owner at both resorts and was just there in the first week of July to host an annual get-together. This week included both Canada Day and US Independence Day. Did not seem to have as many guests as in past years. With the border still closed to non-essential travel, there were no American cars to be seen on July 4 when there is usually a lot. Just out of curiosity, I looked for exchanges on II and there was nothing available until late fall. RCI had a lot of studios which are the lock-offs of the typical two bedroom units and a few one bedrooms ones later in the fall.
The big attractions here are the downhill and cross country skiing in the winter and golf in the summer. The best golf course in the area and the closest to these resorts was closed down by Horseshoe Resort. They kept the inferior Valley course with less legal problems. A developer bought the Highlands course but has done nothing and there was a rumour that they wanted to lease out part of the course for ten years. The property would take a lot of money to restore and nobody is going to do that with only a ten year window. I think this hurt the attendance at the resorts but there are other courses in the area and one just down the road got a big upgrade.
I am surprised that the resorts are not popular, there is not a lot of exchange choice in this area. Could be the problem of aging owners. Why is there so much delinquency? I would think that legal avenues have not been followed. When Wyndham acquired Shell Vacations, they apparently picked up some units that were delinquent. Also, there have been a lot of renovations in the past few years. These resorts are listed by Shell as affiliates so it must be the boards of directors that allow the affiliation with Shell. So who paid for the renovations? I would like to have a better idea of the "Affiliate" status.
I have not looked at any of the documents for the court order but it seems like a precedent for timeshare owners collectively to take over. How does Wyndham, Bluegreen, Diamond, etc. "own" a fixed week resort when most of the units are sold off?
I am hoping for a good summary in plain language about the proceedings of taking over.
The situation here can be compared with the former Horseshoe Lodge timeshare as increasing fees to cover delinquencies caused further delinquencies. Finally the death spiral took over and foreclosure reverted the property to Horseshoe Resort which has now been sold off as condos (Cliffside). But this property is part of the resort with many amenities available. The Carriage resorts have no such amenities other than the usual swimming pool, gym and activities centre. So it might not be attractive to condo buyers. Perhaps a mix of sold units and timeshare or fractional units will evolve. There are many fractionals (owning five weeks spread throughout the year) in Ontario and you can see the listings for exchanges usually of the shoulder periods
 
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falcon

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There are not a lot of people there now as the resorts are only booking at 40% capacity. There is a huge, posh Finnish spa slated to open early next year. We are Shell Vacations Club because that was our original developer. Wyndham owns about 10% of our units. This is still a viable resort despite the fact that many owners are done with ownership, never took the time to learn how to get the most of their ownership and perhaps had changing circumstances. Unfortunately our delinquency situation was a problem and that led to the cycle of higher fees and more deliquencies. Ideally this step would have been taken 5 years ago. But I, and many others, look forward to the future without trapping owners in perpetuity that no longer want to own. The perpetuity clause will be replaced with an opt-out clause.
 

falcon

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A friend is a long time owner at both resorts and was just there in the first week of July to host an annual get-together. This week included both Canada Day and US Independence Day. Did not seem to have as many guests as in past years. With the border still closed to non-essential travel, there were no American cars to be seen on July 4 when there is usually a lot. Just out of curiousity, I looked for exchanges on RCI and II and there was nothing available until late fall.
The big attractions here are the downhill and cross country skiing in the winter and golf in the summer. The best golf course in the area and the closest to these resorts was closed down by Horseshoe Resort. They kept the inferior Valley course with less legal problems. A developer bought the Highlands course but has done nothing and there was a rumour that they wanted to lease out part of the course for ten years. The property would take a lot of money to restore and nobody is going to do that with only a ten year window. I think this hurt the attendance at the resorts but there are other courses in the area and one just down the road got a big upgrade.
I am surprised that the resorts are not popular, there is not a lot of exchange choice in this area. Could be the problem of aging owners. Why is there so much delinquency? I would think that legal avenues have not been followed. When Wyndham acquired Shell Vacations, they apparently picked up some units that were delinquent. Also, there have been a lot of renovations in the past few years. These resorts are listed by Shell as affiliates so it must be the boards of directors that allow the affiliation with Shell. So who paid for the renovations? I would like to have a better idea of the "Affiliate" status.
I have not looked at any of the documents for the court order but it seems like a precedent for timeshare owners collectively to take over. How does Wyndham, Bluegreen, Diamond, etc. "own" a fixed week resort when most of the units are sold off?
I am hoping for a good summary in plain language about the proceedings of taking over.
The situation here can be compared with the former Horseshoe Lodge timeshare as increasing fees to cover delinquencies caused further delinquencies. Finally the death spiral took over and foreclosure reverted the property to Horseshoe Resort which has now been sold off as condos (Cliffside). But this property is part of the resort with many amenities available. The Carriage resorts have no such amenities other than the usual swimming pool, gym and activities centre. So it might not be attractive to condo buyers. Perhaps a mix of sold units and timeshare or fractional units will evolve. There are many fractionals (owning five weeks spread throughout the year) in Ontario and you can see the listings for exchanges usually of the shoulder periods
Cranberry in Collingwood has fractional ownership. Personally I'm not a fan of the scheme. It's a huge commitment and off season in Ontario is not a lot of fun. It will be interesting to follow the process and see how the units get repurposed. It is a lovely property and Carriage Ridge allows ski-in/ski-out, which is a big plus. True the golf courses are not there, but there is nice golfing nearby. It's also on the cusp of cottage country with abundant lakes and trails. in a perfect world you wouldn't see peak time like summer on RCI. I noticed nothing in Ontario is available until September. Peak time should be booked by owners.
 

cd5

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We just published this blog (and several others previously about the issues) on our website at
www.chcrowners.org/blog and in our 3,500 person Facebook group where there is a very large & active group discussing the issues. www.facebook.com/groups/CHCROwners
I encourage all Hills and Ridge owners to do their due diligence and ensure that they get their ballot and correct any issue with the accuracy if one exists.
BLOG POST:
This is a special message to advise all owners and in particular, those owners not in our Facebook group, that the survey was emailed on Friday, July 17th, to those who had provided an email to Carriage Hills, Carriage Ridge, Equiant (the billing company) and to BDO (according to what BDO has communicated on their site). For those with no email, a paper copy has been mailed to the last postal address on file. One email (or postal ballot) should be received for each resort if you own at both.

The email comes from: noreply@votenet.com and has the subject: CARRIAGE HILLS (OR RIDGE) MEMBER SURVEY

Many owners in our Facebook group have reported a number of omissions and errors in the execution of this mailing/survey.

Owners have reported the following:
  • no email received (ensure you check your spam)
  • email received for one resort but not the other (when both are owned)
  • error on the ballot as to the number or type of unit/s owned
  • ballot received for wrong resort (ie: owner at Ridge receiving ballot for Hills)
The survey does not have to be returned until August 31, so if you have a problem to resolve, there is still time to do so if you act promptly.

If you have not received the email or have errors on your ballot/s please contact BDO at these emails:
For Carriage Hills: BDOcarriagehills@bdo.ca
For Carriage Ridge: BDOcarriageridge@bdo.ca

We suggest "cc'ing" your board president as well:
For Carriage Hills: darren@carriagehillsoa.ca
For Carriage Ridge: martycroa@gmail.com

Delinquencies
: a number of owners have reported receiving an email meant for delinquent owners (earlier this week) even though they are NOT delinquent.
  • some have a very small amount on record with Equiant (ex: $20) which could be a late fee that they were unaware of
  • some have NO outstanding amount and still got the message
  • if you received an email or postal letter meant for delinquents, you WILL NOT receive the survey until your status as a fully-paid-up owner is confirmed with BDO
We suggest checking with Equiant first (I do not have their info, please check a past statement) and then contacting the emails above once your status has been "corrected/verified" with Equiant, or if you have other questions/concerns.

One last request - please do not address your questions to me using our website email:
I am unable to resolve your problem and am also unable to answer the large volume of emails, some with very long & complicated questions, sent to our website. I am not a retiree and work full-time making this additional work unfeasible for me.

Therefore, please address your questions and concerns to the persons whose task it is to work for all of us in this process - BDO and our board presidents.

The BDO website, which contains all communications to owners is found here:
https://www.bdo.ca/en-ca/extranets/carriage/

Best wishes to all and we sincerely hope that any and all issues reported to BDO and our board presidents are dealt with promptly and accurately.
 
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cd5

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I guess the coronavirus has finally put a fork into this timeshare operation.
Possibly. The 24% delinquency rate and other financial issues (such as using reserves to fund operation déficits) were the main cause. BDO has been involved since last year and would never have been named Administrator by the Ontario Bankruptcy Court if the resorts had been in a "healthy" financial state.
 

falcon

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The timeshares are not insolvent. They are owed millions by delinquent owners, many who have gone delinquent to "protest" even though they could afford to pay. Yes some people were bold enough to make that statement in our Facebook group!!! for a balanced view on the proceedings please join us at Carriage Hills last Carriage Ridge litigation-restructuring.
 

CdnGinger

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Carriage Hills & Carriage Ridge Resorts, Barrie, Ontario, are now under Court Administrator - BDO in an effort by the Boards to launch re-structure & avoid insolvency. Surveying Owners for their interest in "Exit" (for a fee = approx 1.5 x MF) or "Stay" (& find out about re-structuring proposal) then maybe Stay or Exit is proving very complex due to Contact lists used to send out the Survey. Both email + snail mail being used, but out-of-date contacts are proving troublesome. Many Owners have not received the Survey which is due back by Aug 31st. Some received erroneous holdings in their personalized copy of the Survey. Delinquent accounts (25-30%) may not vote - counted as Exit. Non-reply counted as Stay. More official info: https://www.bdo.ca/en-ca/extranets/carriage/ FB: https://m.facebook.com/groups/ Web: CHCROwners.org Also for CHCROwners in NY State, there is a NYS case pending - email address is public.integrity@ag.ny.gov and the phone number is (212)416-8090.
 
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Harmina

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Are we supposed to fill in the Ballot as well as fill out a survey?
I sent back my ballot for the exit, however when I try to log into the survey it takes me back to the ballot which shows a receipt for the ballot.
Is there an actual survey to fill out?
 

cd5

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No, it's a ballot - for a vote.
 

cd5

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No, they started by calling it a survey but in fact it is a vote - which is binding on those who choose to exit immediately. There will be a second vote when the restructure plan is ready (possibly October or November) and a second chance to exit then.
 

Harmina

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No, they started by calling it a survey but in fact it is a vote - which is binding on those who choose to exit immediately. There will be a second vote when the restructure plan is ready (possibly October or November) and a second chance to exit then.
Thank you so much for clarifying. It has been a little bit confusing regarding survey and ballot emails. I just hope this issue gets resolved sooner than later.......I am not interested in paying the ever increasing MF's any longer.
 
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