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I'm disappointed in the direction this forum has taken

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DeniseM

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There are a number of people who are using many of the threads on this forum as an excuse to inflict their political/social bias on the rest of us. I'm deleting these posts with no warning, and serial offenders are being recommended to Admin for suspension. This is the TUG posting rule regarding these topics:
Avoid posting about politics, religion, or contentious social issues. Unless directly related to timesharing, such discussions are prohibited in these forums, including TUG Lounge. We've been down that road before, it was ugly, and we are not going there again.

If you see a post that needs my special attention, please click the REPORT link at the bottor of the post to report it.
 

davidvel

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As long as it's equally applied, it's all fair. In the past posts were left up when they were commentary or opinions that were "socially acceptable" to the majority, but the opposing views were deemed "socially contentious," and deleted.

Or as some say "What's good for the goose, is good for the gander." (As I type I suspect there is some group that has found this idiom to be offensive....UGH.)
 

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Thanks for cleaning things up. There is huge internet out there for people to practice their political debate skills. There is no need for that here. These people are annoying when they bring it here. They lack respect for forum culture.
 

Kapolei

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As long as it's equally applied, it's all fair. In the past posts were left up when they were commentary or opinions that were "socially acceptable" to the majority, but the opposing views were deemed "socially contentious," and deleted.

Or as some say "What's good for the goose, is good for the gander." (As I type I suspect there is some group that has found this idiom to be offensive....UGH.)

This isn’t rocket science. When people start saying Gov X is a jerk; or political party Y is full of idiots; or the people from X state are morons .... or convey any such message ... they should go elsewhere.
 

davidvel

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This isn’t rocket science. When people start saying Gov X is a jerk; or political party Y is full of idiots; or the people from X state are morons .... or convey any such message ... they should go elsewhere.
I wholeheartedly agree. But there are also less subtle ways that people inject their political and contentious views, and also not delete similar posts when they align with their own. And my Dad was a rocket scientist...
 

klpca

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The spirit of this forum is what has made it appealing. There is a vocal minority (and before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, this cuts many ways) who either don't recognize the harshness in the way that their message is delivered or just don't care, but it has definitely changed the tone of the board. The respect that everyone has shown towards each other in the past has decreased and imho, could permanently change the perception of TUG. It was started to help timeshare owners. I can't imagine a new user feeling comfortable asking a question on a message board that appears to be contentious. As it stands now, it doesn't feel welcoming. As I have seen Brian say in the past, there are plenty of places on the internet to discuss contentious issues but this isn't one of them. I am normally not a fan of heavy moderation as we are all adults and should be able to do so in our own, but folks are so dug into their positions at this point that reason has left the room. It is sad that the moderators have had to deal with this nonsense.
 

DaveNV

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It is sad that the moderators have had to deal with this nonsense.

And I think the people who are quick to post something against the rules are a relative handful, and should be stopped cold. I can usually expect that every post they make, regardless of topic, will have something negative attached, whether it's a political comment, some denigrating attitude, some rude judgment, or a personal attack on someone. When they are called out for it, they defend themselves and say, "That's what the Ignore button is for." I disagree. I shouldn't have to ignore anyone here. Tug is collectively better than that.

Dave
 

Tank

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Pretty much across the board everywhere - ugly

sad

we need info on what’s actually going on, like it or not, without the opinions of what one thinks it should be. It is what it is.

Dave
 

SmithOp

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And I think the people who are quick to post something against the rules are a relative handful, and should be stopped cold. I can usually expect that every post they make, regardless of topic, will have something negative attached, whether it's a political comment, some denigrating attitude, some rude judgment, or a personal attack on someone. When they are called out for it, they defend themselves and say, "That's what the Ignore button is for." I disagree. I shouldn't have to ignore anyone here. Tug is collectively better than that.

Dave

While I agree with your assessment, and my ignore list grows daily, I have to say there are also pollyannas that top post topics every day that lay the bait.


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buzglyd

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While I agree with your assessment, and my ignore list grows daily, I have to say there are also pollyannas that top post topics every day that lay the bait.


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Are you suggesting some trolling?

"There is no fighting in the war room!"
 

DaveNV

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While I agree with your assessment, and my ignore list grows daily, I have to say there are also pollyannas that top post topics every day that lay the bait.


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Yes, there are. But I also think it's possible to discuss almost anything without it becoming an antagonistic personal attack. The great thing about Tug is the variety of posted topics here. Not everything needs to be deeply meaningful, but none of it needs to be mean spirited.

Dave
 

csodjd

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Yes, there are. But I also think it's possible to discuss almost anything without it becoming an antagonistic personal attack. The great thing about Tug is the variety of posted topics here. Not everything needs to be deeply meaningful, but none of it needs to be mean spirited.

Dave
Agree completely. However, disagreeing with what someone said, or with what a politician or government has done or is doing, is not necessarily "political" either. If it pertains to the topic, if its directed to the ACTION/DECISION and not the person, just because it takes a different view, even if that's a view that is identified with a "party" or political affiliation, should not make it improper or banned. So long as a post is directed toward timesharing and/or things that impact or pertain to timesharing, the content should not lead to being censored. There is a big difference between saying, you're stupid and saying, that's a stupid decision. And, let's be honest, this time, these events, they are challenging and they do provoke stronger feelings because the issues are bigger and more complex. Again, it's one thing to argue over the best restaurant in Waikiki and another entirely to argue over how to or whether avoid spreading an infectious disease.
 

klpca

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While I agree with your assessment, and my ignore list grows daily, I have to say there are also pollyannas that top post topics every day that lay the bait.

Agree to both, especially the second. You see the thread title and know where things are headed. Rather unfortunate.

Agree completely. However, disagreeing with what someone said, or with what a politician or government has done or is doing, is not necessarily "political" either. If it pertains to the topic, if its directed to the ACTION/DECISION and not the person, just because it takes a different view, even if that's a view that is identified with a "party" or political affiliation, should not make it improper or banned. So long as a post is directed toward timesharing and/or things that impact or pertain to timesharing, the content should not lead to being censored. There is a big difference between saying, you're stupid and saying, that's a stupid decision. And, let's be honest, this time, these events, they are challenging and they do provoke stronger feelings because the issues are bigger and more complex. Again, it's one thing to argue over the best restaurant in Waikiki and another entirely to argue over how to or whether avoid spreading an infectious disease.
If only folks could stay on topic, lol. It's a very slippery slope. Some cannot resist the temptation.
 

DaveNV

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Agree completely. However, disagreeing with what someone said, or with what a politician or government has done or is doing, is not necessarily "political" either. If it pertains to the topic, if its directed to the ACTION/DECISION and not the person, just because it takes a different view, even if that's a view that is identified with a "party" or political affiliation, should not make it improper or banned. So long as a post is directed toward timesharing and/or things that impact or pertain to timesharing, the content should not lead to being censored. There is a big difference between saying, you're stupid and saying, that's a stupid decision. And, let's be honest, this time, these events, they are challenging and they do provoke stronger feelings because the issues are bigger and more complex. Again, it's one thing to argue over the best restaurant in Waikiki and another entirely to argue over how to or whether avoid spreading an infectious disease.

I agree, but I think it all comes down to how it is expressed by the poster. As I said earlier, "I also think it's possible to discuss almost anything without it becoming an antagonistic personal attack." Some posters here seem to overlook that option, and go right for the jugular when they read something with which they disagree. It's normal to have a differing opinion about something, especially with a hot button topic. Present the facts, in a polite way, and even agree to disagree with someone. It isn't necessary to beat somebody up, or post deliberately antagonistic things just to get a rise out of someone. If someone disagrees with a post, it isn't required to reply. If there isn't something to add to the conversation, leave it alone, and move on. This isn't junior high. :D

Dave
 

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There are a number of people who are using many of the threads on this forum as an excuse to inflict their political/social bias on the rest of us. I'm deleting these posts with no warning, and serial offenders are being recommended to Admin for suspension. This is the TUG posting rule regarding these topics:


If you see a post that needs my special attention, please click the REPORT link at the bottor of the post to report it.

Denise, I'm not sure if you were looking for responses and/or opinions but, it seems that door has been open. Of course you're certainly able to block any further responses and/or remove the existing comments and I doubt anyone would question you for doing so although, I think you would be interested in hearing how, not only the paying members feel, but our guests as well. So please, if it doesn't fit within the purpose of your comments, feel free to remove it.

As for political and religious comments, I agree 100% with that. We can't even get our elected politicians to agree or play nice together. Religion can also be a somewhat volatile topic at times.

This of course leaves, "contentious social issues". In and of itself, that term can be defined in endless ways. What's "contentious" to one, may not be at all to another. I've even seen moderators take part in these discussions from time to time. What may be "contentious" to one moderator, may not be to another and there are far less moderators than there are paying members and guests. Can you see why that may be a problem? Perhaps, and this just a thought, if one finds a thread to "contentious" to them, simply avoid the thread. We're all adults and are able to make our own choices as to what we wish join in on. If something draws your ire, simply steer clear of it.

Anyway, this is TUG's playground, so to speak, and others make the rules and yes, if anyone disregards those rules, they can be removed. Perhaps the "contentious social issues" rule needs to be more well defined as to what is and what isn't a contentious social issue.
 

Luanne

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I know I have been guilty of getting flared up and posting things that I'm sure people have not cared for. My only "excuse" is that I, like many, many others, are tired, are discouraged and it doesn't take much to get us upset. Maybe I'm just speaking for myself, maybe not. I will make every effort in the future not to fan the flames, not to post anything contentious. Back to timeshare topics, posting humor of the days and pictures of places I've been.
 

klpca

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Denise, I'm not sure if you were looking for responses and/or opinions but, it seems that door has been open. Of course you're certainly able to block any further responses and/or remove the existing comments and I doubt anyone would question you for doing so although, I think you would be interested in hearing how, not only the paying members feel, but our guests as well. So please, if it doesn't fit within the purpose of your comments, feel free to remove it.

As for political and religious comments, I agree 100% with that. We can't even get our elected politicians to agree or play nice together. Religion can also be a somewhat volatile topic at times.

This of course leaves, "contentious social issues". In and of itself, that term can be defined in endless ways. What's "contentious" to one, may not be at all to another. I've even seen moderators take part in these discussions from time to time. What may be "contentious" to one moderator, may not be to another and there are far less moderators than there are paying members and guests. Can you see why that may be a problem? Perhaps, and this just a thought, if one finds a thread to "contentious" to them, simply avoid the thread. We're all adults and are able to make our own choices as to what we wish join in on. If something draws your ire, simply steer clear of it.

Anyway, this is TUG's playground, so to speak, and others make the rules and yes, if anyone disregards those rules, they can be removed. Perhaps the "contentious social issues" rule needs to be more well defined as to what is and what isn't a contentious social issue.
If contentious issues could be discussed on the merits vs folks' opinions it could probably be done. I think that is what Dave is saying. As we have seen time and time again, for some that is not possible. I don't think that the actual problem is that something is contentious, it's that it can't be discussed reasonably because people get quite invested in their personal views.

Btw as one who does not like to participate much in contentious issues (from one of my other posts - contentious arguing is how my family has always rolled and I'm over it) it is disappointing when you pull up the "new threads" list and over half are "contentious issues". I have ignored many folks on the board out of necessity - I am not spending my pandemic watching others fight - but it hasn't left much other content so I have found other sites to visit. I always thought that TUG was about timesharing and I enjoyed it. It's turned into a bit of an unruly playground lately. I think that the ship will right itself eventually but this has been disappointing.
 
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WVBaker

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If contentious issues could be discussed on the merits vs folks' opinions it could probably be done. I think that is what Dave is trying to say. As we have seen time and time again, for some that is not possible. I don't think that the actual problem is that something is contentious, it's that it can't be discussed reasonably because people get quite invested in their personal views.

Btw as one who does not like to participate much in contentious issues (from one of my other posts - contentious arguing is how my family has always rolled and I'm over it) it is disappointing when you pull up the "new threads" list and over half are "contentious issues". I have ignored many folks on the board out of necessity - I am not spending my pandemic watching others fight - but it hasn't left much other content so I have found other sites to visit. I always thought that TUG was about timesharing and I enjoyed it. It's turned into a bit of an unruly playground lately. I think that the ship will right itself eventually but this has been disappointing.

Katherine, let me thank you for a well thought out post.

This is my point. Ignore anyone you wish. Not one person has forced you, at least I don't think so, to take part in any conversation that you find contentious. You can look at the heading of any thread and tell what may disturb you. Simply don't open the thread and above all, don't take part in any discussion within it. My feeling is, regardless of what others wish to discuss, just because I find it contentious doesn't mean I'm going report it to a moderator simply because I find it perhaps contentious. Is it the headings of the threads that upset you?

Keep in mind that there is one section, "General Discussion" which is in place to, "Hang out with thousands of other owners to discuss anything not directly related to Timeshares!" That's where I've always placed a topic that may not deal directly with timeshares. Just one section, that's it. I don't think that there are contentious threads posted all over.

Just one member's opinion to do with as you wish. ;)
 

DeniseM

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Thank you for your input. I stand by my first post.
 
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