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If You Own a Lockoff, Can you Sell it off in halves?

crlange

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I bought a Sedona Summit Unit from Ebay.(1 bed 1 bath) When I called the resort they informed me that the contract was a 2 bedroom lockoff. Did I luck into a two bedroom or can you sell a lockoff bit by bit? Thanks in advance.
 

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[triennial - points]
Doubtful.

Unlikely.

Click here for some related recent TUG-BBS discussion.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 

crlange

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unlikely you can split it OR

unlikely that I lucked into a 2 bedroom lockout?
 

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[triennial - points]
Deeded Lock-Off Timeshares.

Lock-off timeshares are plentiful. You may well have snagged 1 of those. Congratulations.

What's doubtful is being able to do any further subdivision of the deeded timeshare. (That's what the related earlier TUG-BBS linked discussion is about.)

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 
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DeniseM

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You usually cannot sell half of a lock-off.
 

Talent312

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unlikely that I lucked into a 2 bedroom lockout?
Do you have a contract from the Seller? If so, how does it describe the unit?
Have you closed the deal and have a deed? If so, how does it describe the unit?

If the Seller is trying to split up a lockoff that the TS managment won't allow, then all you have bought is a lawsuit agains the Seller. OTOH, if the Seller made a mistake and sold you a better unit, then you've lucked out... too bad for him.
 

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Can you sell of one or two bedrooms of your house? How about selling off a room from a full ownership condo? It's very unlikely you'll be able to split you deed and sell off half of your timeshare and, even if you could, with the market as it is you'd likely get very little for it.
 

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[triennial - points]
Subdivide Acreage, Not Condos.

Can you sell of one or two bedrooms of your house?
Probably not, but it some cases you can subdivide your side yard & sell it off separately from your own property, depending on local zoning laws, etc.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

Bill4728

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Probably not, but it some cases you can subdivide your side yard & sell it off separately from your own property, depending on local zoning laws, etc.
But to sub divide your property, you'd have to do significant legal filings. You just couldn't submit a dead saying you sold your side yard.

Back to the OP: You can't sell or buy 1/2 of a lock-off unit.
 

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[triennial - points]
You Got That Right.

But to sub divide your property, you'd have to do significant legal filings. You just couldn't submit a dead saying you sold your side yard.
Neighbors near us ran up $30,000 or so in legal bills in preparation for a hearing before the board of zoning appeals that ultimately was successful.

It helped that the original development plans for the neighborhood called for 2 lots on that site in the 1st place, but getting approval for re-subdivision of the lot was still not automatic or a sure thing.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 

BocaBum99

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It depends on how the lockoff is deeded. If it is deeded as two separate units, you can split them.

The proper analogy is selling 2 different condos in a common building, not a single room off of a single condo.

It just depends on how the lockoff was originally deeded and whether or not the resort sells them separately.

For instance, a lock off unit could be deeded as Week 42, unit 1344AB at a given resort. It could be possible to split them into Week 42, unit 1344A and Week 42, unit 1344B.

One unit is a studio. The other is a 1br unit. Together they form a 2br lock off.
 

Bill4728

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It depends on how the lockoff is deeded. If it is deeded as two separate units, you can split them.

The proper analogy is selling 2 different condos in a common building, not a single room off of a single condo.

It just depends on how the lockoff was originally deeded and whether or not the resort sells them separately.

For instance, a lock off unit could be deeded as Week 42, unit 1344AB at a given resort. It could be possible to split them into Week 42, unit 1344A and Week 42, unit 1344B.

One unit is a studio. The other is a 1br unit. Together they form a 2br lock off.
Very true, if they were deeded separately, but isn't it unlikely that they would be deeded that way?


It is also true that you could sell an EOY interest in an annual TS but only if the developer sold it to you as 2 EOY TSs.
 
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BocaBum99

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Very true, if they were deeded separately, but isn't it unlikely that they would be deeded that way?


It is also true that you could sell an EOY interest in an annual TS but only if the developer sold it to you as 2 EOY TSs.
No, lots of resorts deed them separately so that they can sell them separately or together. It gives them more options for selling and exchanging.
 

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No, lots of resorts deed them separately so that they can sell them separately or together. It gives them more options for selling and exchanging.
Thanks,

I didn't know that. I thought it was very rare for them to be deeded seperately.
 

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[triennial - points]
The Only Real-World Example I'm Semi-Familiar With.

At Cypress Pointe Resort (Orlando FL), all ownership is floating-week 3BR lock-off units. The only variations are every-year or alternate-year, & Diamond Season (any week, subject to availabililty) or Emerald Season ("quiet time" off-season weeks).

At The Grande Villas (Cypress Pointe Phase 2, right across the street) ownership comes in those varieties plus 2BR units & 1BR units & various oddball UDIs designed to match up with the timeshare company's proprietary points-based reservation system.

Even though there already are deeds for standalone 1- & 2BR units at Phase 2 that are the same as the 1BR "B" units & 2BR "A" units of the 3BR lock-offs, the deeded 3BR units cannot be subdivided into separate 2BR & 1BR units. Nor can owners of multiple oddball UDI deeds glom those together into larger ownerships via re-deeding them.

Likewise, the every-year units on both sides of the street cannot be subdivided into EEY & EOY units, nor can existing EEY & EOY units be glommed together into every-year deeds.

The restriction against further subdivisions of the Phase 1 & Phase 2 deeds are spelled out in the Master Condo Association Documents recorded down at the courthouse with all the individual unit & UDI deeds, & incorporated by reference into each & every 1 of those deeds.

Just because that's how those 2 timeshares do it, however, that doesn't mean there aren't other timeshares out there that possibly do allow units to be re-deeded in various ways. I'm guessing, however, that the standard practice is to disallow re-deeding just as a way of keeping an already complicated fractured ownership from becoming even more complicated.

I don't think there's anything in the anti-subdividing provisions, though, that would prevent an owner from signing a contract with a 3rd party regarding, for example, alternate-year use of an every-year timeshare.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 

BocaBum99

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At Cypress Pointe Resort (Orlando FL), all ownership is floating-week 3BR lock-off units. The only variations are every-year or alternate-year, & Diamond Season (any week, subject to availabililty) or Emerald Season ("quiet time" off-season weeks).

At The Grande Villas (Cypress Pointe Phase 2, right across the street) ownership comes in those varieties plus 2BR units & 1BR units & various oddball UDIs designed to match up with the timeshare company's proprietary points-based reservation system.

Even though there already are deeds for standalone 1- & 2BR units at Phase 2 that are the same as the 1BR "B" units & 2BR "A" units of the 3BR lock-offs, the deeded 3BR units cannot be subdivided into separate 2BR & 1BR units. Nor can owners of multiple oddball UDI deeds glom those together into larger ownerships via re-deeding them.

Likewise, the every-year units on both sides of the street cannot be subdivided into EEY & EOY units, nor can existing EEY & EOY units be glommed together into every-year deeds.

The restriction against further subdivisions of the Phase 1 & Phase 2 deeds are spelled out in the Master Condo Association Documents recorded down at the courthouse with all the individual unit & UDI deeds, & incorporated by reference into each & every 1 of those deeds.

Just because that's how those 2 timeshares do it, however, that doesn't mean there aren't other timeshares out there that possibly do allow units to be re-deeded in various ways. I'm guessing, however, that the standard practice is to disallow re-deeding just as a way of keeping an already complicated fractured ownership from becoming even more complicated.

I don't think there's anything in the anti-subdividing provisions, though, that would prevent an owner from signing a contract with a 3rd party regarding, for example, alternate-year use of an every-year timeshare.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
I am familiar with lots of examples where splitting is supported AND where splitting is NOT supported.

It all depends on how the timeshare resort was originally set up. If a 2 bedroom lock off is actually deeded as a studio and a 1br unit with 2 units on one deed, then often times it can be split.

It would be very similar to the case where an owner has 2 two bedroom units on one recorded deed. Those can often times later be split into individual deeds. It all depends on whether or not what is on the deed is considered an undivided interest by contract or by condo docs.
 

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Nor can owners of multiple oddball UDI deeds glom those together into larger ownerships via re-deeding them.

Are you absolutely sure about this? If I own 2 different units at your resort, why can't I create a single warranty deed to convey both units from the grantor to the grantee? If it's deeded, I think you can do it. There may be 2 separate resort transfers, but there could be only ONE deed.

The proper format for a deed is the domain of the State in which a timeshare is deeded, NOT the resort it is deeded at.
 

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[triennial - points]
You Could Be Right.

Are you absolutely sure about this?
Click here for the Phase Two POS (in PDF form). I'm pretty sure page 28 says owners can sell their timeshares, but can only sell the whole unit that they own, not just part.

Even so, you & I could sign 1 contract covering conveyance of my 2 deeds to you for a single consideration, but for sure the resorts would collect 2 transfer fees & bill you separately for the 2 ownerships.

Ditto if you bought a bunch of oddball low-value UDIs from 1 owner or various owners -- & then you'd likely find yourself paying disproportionately high maintenance fees for the not-quite-glommed-together UDI ownerships -- compared, say, with the owners of equivalent straight-ahead 3BR units.

As a practical matter, the resorts are going to keep on treating the ownership account(s) the same way they've always treated them regardless of any creative documents that buyers & sellers come up with to accomplish transfer of ownership.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 

BocaBum99

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Click here for the Phase Two POS (in PDF form). I'm pretty sure page 28 says owners can sell their timeshares, but can only sell the whole unit that they own, not just part.
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
I just read page 28 and I believe your interpretation is incorrect. It is true that you can only sell a complete timeshare interest. But, what page 28 does NOT indicate is whether or not a lock off is one or two interests. If a 2 br lock off is considered 2 interests, then they can be sold off separately.

If a 2 bedroom lock off is an undivided interest, then it is true that it cannot be sold as the studio and 1br. I would contact someone in the title department at the resort to find out for sure.
 

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[triennial - points]
Good Idea.

I would contact someone in the title department at the resort to find out for sure.
Maybe the professional closing services agents at companies like Timeshare Transfer Inc. & Timeshare Closing Services Inc. & JRA Services Inc. are familiar with the various restrictions on dividing & recombining timeshare ownerships.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 
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