• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

I was lied to - should I sue?

griffir1

TUG Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2015
Messages
11
Reaction score
1
Points
1
Location
Nashville TN
A couple of years ago I had 156,000 points at Nashville and purchased a Wyndham OVP contract for 203,000 points in Kauai. They set up a PIC for 156,000 points for my Westgate timeshare in Orlando and I became a Gold VIP member (grandfathered before they raised the points needed to be Gold VIP). But I had a problem with the way the PIC went down because I later found out that Wyndham set up the PIC for a property and week that was not mine. Why? I don't know. But I thought it was kind of shady and wanted to keep my Gold VIP status but not have to use the PIC. So, last December when a sales person made me an offer I said if you can set it up so that by purchasing those points I could retain my Gold VIP status and lose the requirement to have the PIC I will make the purchase. After bringing the manager in they said they could make that happen so I signed the contract. I was informed a couple months later that I had to keep the PIC in my ownership profile. I called Customer Service and, after spending a week researching the situation, they told me I had to keep the PIC. I readdressed the issue by escalating it but was told the same thing even though they said it was clear that I was promised the PIC would not be required after the purchase. Why did they not honor the promise the sales people made? Because it was not in the contract. My question is, do I have grounds to sue to have the contract reversed and my money paid back to me?
 
Last edited:

csxjohn

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2012
Messages
6,551
Reaction score
134
Points
348
Location
North East Ohio
Resorts Owned
Tropic Shores Resort, Bluegreen points
A couple of years ago I had 156,000 points at Nashville and purchased a Wyndham OVP contract for 203,000 points in Kauai. They set up a PIC for 156,000 points for my Westgate timeshare in Orlando and I became a Gold VIP member (grandfathered before they raised the points needed to be Gold VIP). But I had a problem with the way the PIC went down because I later found out that Wyndham set up the PIC for a property and week that was not mine. Why? I don't know. But I thought it was kind of shady and wanted to keep my Gold VIP status but not have to use the PIC. So, last December when a sales person made me an offer I said if you can set it up so that by purchasing those points I could retain my Gold VIP status and lose the requirement to have the PIC I will make the purchase. After bringing the manager in they said they could make that happen so I signed the contract. I was informed a couple months later that I had to keep the PIC in my ownership profile. I called Customer Service and, after spending a week researching the situation, they told me I had to keep the PIC. I readdressed the issue by escalating it but was told the same thing even though they said it was clear that I was promised the PIC would not be required after the purchase - because it was not in the contract. My question is, do I have grounds to sue to have the contract reversed and my money paid back to me?

Was the guarantee that you could drop the PIC week written in the contract? It sounds like it wasn't so you don't have much to stand on. That's not to say you don't have grounds but what do you have as proof?

I'm not an attorney, just asking a few questions that popped in my mind when reading your post.
 

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
57,950
Reaction score
9,474
Points
1,849
Resorts Owned
WKORV, WKV, 2-SDO, 4-Kauai Beach Villas, Island Park Village (Yellowstone), Hyatt High Sierra, Dolphin's Cove (Anaheim)
Unfortunately, verbal promises are not legally binding, and your contract states that, because sales people are infamous for "saying" anything to make a sale.
 

griffir1

TUG Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2015
Messages
11
Reaction score
1
Points
1
Location
Nashville TN
Was the guarantee that you could drop the PIC week written in the contract? It sounds like it wasn't so you don't have much to stand on. That's not to say you don't have grounds but what do you have as proof?

I'm not an attorney, just asking a few questions that popped in my mind when reading your post.

All I have as proof is a document of my intent that states that I made the purchase based on the promise of losing the PIC as a condition of the sale. I was told by Wyndham that even though that was my intent all that matters is what is in the contract.
 

Jason245

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
1,920
Reaction score
171
Points
173
All I have as proof is a document of my intent that states that I made the purchase based on the promise of losing the PIC as a condition of the sale. I was told by Wyndham that even though that was my intent all that matters is what is in the contract.
Unfortunately, you should have made sure it was written in the final sales contract. That is what governs the transaction legally speaking (although you can probably speak to a attorney ).

General rule is don't sign any contracts unless all the provisions you want are in them.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
 

griffir1

TUG Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2015
Messages
11
Reaction score
1
Points
1
Location
Nashville TN
Unfortunately, you should have made sure it was written in the final sales contract. That is what governs the transaction legally speaking (although you can probably speak to a attorney ).

General rule is don't sign any contracts unless all the provisions you want are in them.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

Wow. So I was chumped and I couldn't find out until months later so it was too late to rescind. And the only recourse I have is to sue - where can I find a lawyer?
 

Jason245

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
1,920
Reaction score
171
Points
173
Contact your local bar association.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
 

uscav8r

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2013
Messages
1,961
Reaction score
266
Points
294
Location
Virginia
A couple of years ago I had 156,000 points at Nashville and purchased a Wyndham OVP contract for 203,000 points in Kauai. They set up a PIC for 156,000 points for my Westgate timeshare in Orlando and I became a Gold VIP member (grandfathered before they raised the points needed to be Gold VIP). But I had a problem with the way the PIC went down because I later found out that Wyndham set up the PIC for a property and week that was not mine. Why? I don't know. But I thought it was kind of shady and wanted to keep my Gold VIP status but not have to use the PIC. So, last December when a sales person made me an offer I said if you can set it up so that by purchasing those points I could retain my Gold VIP status and lose the requirement to have the PIC I will make the purchase. After bringing the manager in they said they could make that happen so I signed the contract. I was informed a couple months later that I had to keep the PIC in my ownership profile. I called Customer Service and, after spending a week researching the situation, they told me I had to keep the PIC. I readdressed the issue by escalating it but was told the same thing even though they said it was clear that I was promised the PIC would not be required after the purchase. Why did they not honor the promise the sales people made? Because it was not in the contract. My question is, do I have grounds to sue to have the contract reversed and my money paid back to me?
How many points do you have now, with and without PIC? It sounds like you made an additional developer purchase with the recent December contract that makes you GOLD VIP without PIC. This implies to me that the December contract was at least 341,000 points (it is subject to the raised VIP limits). A timeline of what was bought when would help (it sounds like everything was a developer purchase).

So what is the practical issue with the PIC in your profile? Even if the PIC was for the correct property, you don't actually have to deposit it every year. This only gives you the option to PIC for points. You can still use your Westgate normally, but others have reported being able to retain the VIP status in that year. If it is for the wrong property still, is it costing you any fees? Were you getting Gold VIP benefits the entire time the PIC was for the wrong property?

What does your original PIC paperwork say? Did it specify the Westgate details? Or did the contract identify something you don't own? I'm not a lawyer, but if they did not deliver what was promised in the original PIC contract, then you may have grounds to get out of that particular contract... Or you may be able to force Wyndham to PIC the correct timeshare.

The recent December contract is a completely different issue (i.e. you may be stuck with it), and seems ancillary to your original gripe.
 
Last edited:

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
57,950
Reaction score
9,474
Points
1,849
Resorts Owned
WKORV, WKV, 2-SDO, 4-Kauai Beach Villas, Island Park Village (Yellowstone), Hyatt High Sierra, Dolphin's Cove (Anaheim)
Wow. So I was chumped and I couldn't find out until months later so it was too late to rescind. And the only recourse I have is to sue - where can I find a lawyer?

What happened to you, happens every day in timeshare sales - timeshare sales people LIE.

That's why they have iron clad contracts that state that any verbal promises are not binding.

It would be a waste of money to sue - because you signed the contract, and agreed to these terms.
 
Last edited:

Beaglemom3

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,026
Reaction score
92
Points
433
Location
Boston
Forget suing, but seek legal advice :

Notify the Attorney General's office (consumer affairs) in the state where you believe the fraud originated/was committed.
I cannot tell from your post and without the docs - I am not requesting this info, but you should have all pertinent papers ready when speaking or emailing the AG's office. Make your case clear, concise and in chronological order. Have names, dates and places ready.

If you're not sure, contact you own AG's office and ask for direction.

Many AG's offices have a timeshare division within the consumer affairs dept. Florida is particularly robust in investigating reported fraud.

Google for contact info.


"Get it in writing" - Judge Judy


=
 
Last edited:

rubbub

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2015
Messages
59
Reaction score
12
Points
118
Don't throw good money after bad. There are unscrupulous lawyers out there who might say you have a great shot at winning (knowing full well it's a lost cause) just so they can rack up billable time. If you think you actually do have a case talk to several to see if they agree.
 

griffir1

TUG Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2015
Messages
11
Reaction score
1
Points
1
Location
Nashville TN
How many points do you have now, with and without PIC? It sounds like you made an additional developer purchase with the recent December contract that makes you GOLD VIP without PIC. This implies to me that the December contract was at least 341,000 points (it is subject to the raised VIP limits). A timeline of what was bought when would help (it sounds like everything was a developer purchase).

So what is the practical issue with the PIC in your profile? Even if the PIC was for the correct property, you don't actually have to deposit it every year. This only gives you the option to PIC for points. You can still use your Westgate normally, but others have reported being able to retain the VIP status in that year. If it is for the wrong property still, is it costing you any fees? Were you getting Gold VIP benefits the entire time the PIC was for the wrong property?

What does your original PIC paperwork say? Did it specify the Westgate details? Or did the contract identify something you don't own? I'm not a lawyer, but if they did not deliver what was promised in the original PIC contract, then you may have grounds to get out of that particular contract... Or you may be able to force Wyndham to PIC the correct timeshare.

The recent December contract is a completely different issue (i.e. you may be stuck with it), and seems ancillary to your original gripe.

With the addition of the Kauai property and the PIC to my original purchase in Nashville I was granted Gold VIP status which became grandfathered when they upped the amount of points needed for Gold VIP from 500,000 to 700,000. The problem was I was constantly being told that if the PIC was for a property that lost it's status on the list of allowed properties for PICs I would lose my Gold VIP status. In retrospect I can see that was used to market me to buy more points. When their Access program came out I rolled my Nashville property into a contract with additional points and my status as grandfathered Gold was retained without any problem. But salesmen kept pinging me with the notion that I could lose my grandfathered Gold status if my PIC went away. I bought into the concept and when I was offered another upgraded Access contract (434,000 points). I told them I was only interested in purchasing if they could keep my status as grandfathered Gold VIP and lose the PIC (which costs $89 a year). They made a big deal out of "researching to see if it could be done" and came to me saying they had verified it could be done. They even had me sign a document releasing the PIC. I did not find out until months later they had baited me with a lie and was told to go to Customer Care to resolve the issue. I've addressed it with them and escalated it but to no avail. It is clear from the documentation I have (the expectation paper and the PIC release) that I was told I was going to retain my Gold VIP status and lose the PIC if I made the purchase. I feel I was sucker punched with a bait and switch scam and would sue if I could find a lawyer that would work on a contingency fee but from what is being said I doubt that will happen.
 
Last edited:

griffir1

TUG Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2015
Messages
11
Reaction score
1
Points
1
Location
Nashville TN
regrets

I used to tout Wyndham as being an ethical company that was respectful and fair. I now see that is not the case and it has left a very bitter taste in my mouth. I will continue to go to presentations but now see anything they say as a lie - it is an expensive lesson in how timeshare really works. This experience will make it easy to say no and I now have joined the ranks of those warning people about buying direct from the developer.
 
Last edited:

griffir1

TUG Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2015
Messages
11
Reaction score
1
Points
1
Location
Nashville TN
Forget suing, but seek legal advice :

Notify the Attorney General's office (consumer affairs) in the state where you believe the fraud originated/was committed.
I cannot tell from your post and without the docs - I am not requesting this info, but you should have all pertinent papers ready when speaking or emailing the AG's office. Make your case clear, concise and in chronological order. Have names, dates and places ready.

If you're not sure, contact you own AG's office and ask for direction.

Many AG's offices have a timeshare division within the consumer affairs dept. Florida is particularly robust in investigating reported fraud.

Google for contact info.


"Get it in writing" - Judge Judy


=

Great advice thanks - I will follow up on this...
 

am1

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
8,127
Reaction score
1,544
Points
448
I feel I was sucker punched with a bait and switch scam and would sue if I could find a lawyer that would work on a contingency fee but from what is being said I doubt that will happen.

There is doubt about that at all.
 
Last edited:

NHTraveler

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2012
Messages
430
Reaction score
33
Points
238
Location
Manchester, NH
I used to tout Wyndham as being an ethical company that was respectful and fair. I now see that is not the case and it has left a very bitter taste in my mouth. I will continue to go to presentations but now see anything they say as a lie - it is an expensive lesson in how timeshare really works. This experience will make it easy to say no and I now have joined the ranks of those warning people about buying direct from the developer.

We didn't find TUG in time for our past mistakes either. We have the same bitter taste but we signed the contract and we paid the price. Part of the blame is on us, but we learned our lesson. Now, if we are somewhere and there is a rain day, we go to the presentation and get the gift (only if it is $100-$150 Amex) and give them a rash of crap for 60 minutes. :rofl:

We have decided to use the system as much as we can to make it worth something.
 

Passepartout

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2007
Messages
28,642
Reaction score
17,456
Points
1,299
Location
Twin Falls, Eye-Duh-Hoe
I used to tout Wyndham as being an ethical company that was respectful and fair. I now see that is not the case and it has left a very bitter taste in my mouth. I will continue to go to presentations but now see anything they say as a lie - it is an expensive lesson in how timeshare really works. This experience will make it easy to say no and I now have joined the ranks of those warning people about buying direct from the developer.

And THAT, my friend, is a goodly chunk of TUG's mission. Buy RESALE, save Thou$and$!

Jim
 

jancpa

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
892
Reaction score
41
Points
388
Buy a "Buy Resale" TUG T shirt for the next presentation!
 

ronparise

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2011
Messages
12,664
Reaction score
2,134
Points
548
What am I missing?

156 + 203 + 434 = 793 which is gold

I dont see the need for the 154 PIC
 

raygo123

TUG Member
Joined
May 15, 2011
Messages
2,068
Reaction score
259
Points
293
Location
twinsburg ohio
I have package sent last week to the NY ATTN general everyone should overwhelm them with all the complaints

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
 

Ty1on

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
5,127
Reaction score
1,958
Points
348
What am I missing?

156 + 203 + 434 = 793 which is gold

I dont see the need for the 154 PIC

-156 trade-in of Nashville when CWA purchased. 637.
 

griffir1

TUG Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2015
Messages
11
Reaction score
1
Points
1
Location
Nashville TN
-156 trade-in of Nashville when CWA purchased. 637.

Correct - I am prepared to have the sales people try to scare/cajole/trick me into buying another 63,000 points - I will just say no! I'm young enough, I may just be able to get my revenge $100/$150 at a time ;-). And I have the documentation and will report them to an AG.
 

raygo123

TUG Member
Joined
May 15, 2011
Messages
2,068
Reaction score
259
Points
293
Location
twinsburg ohio
My issue is more their pricing. 2013=$130/1000. May this year $130/1000, one month later $151/1000. Complained to corporate and told I should have gone to branard mo. To get that price. Selling same product at two different prices. Both cwa points. Illegal in my opinion.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
 

uscav8r

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2013
Messages
1,961
Reaction score
266
Points
294
Location
Virginia
My issue is more their pricing. 2013=$130/1000. May this year $130/1000, one month later $151/1000. Complained to corporate and told I should have gone to branard mo. To get that price. Selling same product at two different prices. Both cwa points. Illegal in my opinion.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


Why is this illegal? You don't get the same price for a car with same exact options at different dealers. It's called negotiation and no one is forcing you to buy at a given price.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

uscav8r

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2013
Messages
1,961
Reaction score
266
Points
294
Location
Virginia
Correct - I am prepared to have the sales people try to scare/cajole/trick me into buying another 63,000 points - I will just say no! I'm young enough, I may just be able to get my revenge $100/$150 at a time ;-). And I have the documentation and will report them to an AG.


So do you have Gold or not? It sounds like you have 637 + 154 including the PIC (if it was set up correctly). If you kill the PIC there is no way to retain Gold. I don't understand why you don't force their hand to accept the correct PIC and keep the Gold status, as opposed to trying to fight a battle to remove the PIC from the latest purchase. You did that purchase to retain Gold, and that goal has somehow been obscured in this thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Top