I thought this was an interesting and intelligent commentary

[T_R_Oglodyte]

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[davidvel]

MSN

www.msn.com

Strange how the anti-vaxxers used to be a fringe group primarily with kids that had medical issues to blame on the vaccines. The super-duper majority of people didn't feel their freedoms, other liberties, their personal health choices and similar issues were being infringed by the vaccine mandates that have been in effect for decades.

And then viruses and this vaccine were made a partisan issue. The statistics prove this is driven by political ideology and not much else.

 

[Brett]

Strange how the anti-vaxxers used to be a fringe group primarily with kids that had medical issues to blame on the vaccines. The super-duper majority of people didn't feel their freedoms, other liberties, their personal health choices and similar issues were being infringed by the vaccine mandates that have been in effect for decades.

And then viruses and this vaccine were made a partisan issue. The statistics prove this is driven by political ideology and not much else.

not proven but it seems for some people COVID vaccinations are oriented towards political leanings and not necessarily health concerns

MSN

www.msn.com

Probably why there are not "Federal" mandates except for the military, hospitals, etc. It's more like -

The feds won’t make you get a vaccine. But your boss will.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/08/03/vaccine-mandates-private-businesses/

 

[davidvel]

not proven but it seems for some people COVID vaccinations are oriented towards political leanings and not necessarily health concerns

I agree not technically "proven", but there are some polls that show the affiliation of those who are strongly anti-(COVID19)vaxxers. I'm not introducing them here for obvious reasons but the responses are pretty glaring and obvious what is driving this.

People may cite to medical concerns, freedom and non FDA approved, but these are just a boot strap for the underlying affiliation, and you don't hear people cite the same concern for other more risky medical treatments.

 

[Passepartout]

Yesterday, I had my semi-annual (non-Covid) checkup with my pulmonologist. Nice guy, and the ONLY lung doc in the local practice. So he's the go-to for Covid cases here. He told me that he has 50-some patients currently, up from single numbers in May/June. He read down the ages of his current patients, and with few exceptions, they were between 35 and 60. Quite young, don'tcha think? Of these, NONE. ZERO. ZILCH were vaccinated. He's only admitted 3 vaccinated patients, all of which recovered and were released.

Asked about masking, he said that those of us who mask are simply doing it to protect the unvaccinated. And it might be somewhat callous, but if he had his way, when someone expressed that for whatever reason they give for not getting vaxxed, he'd have them sign a document refusing treatment should they present with Covid positivity. If they refuse something that has a near 100% record of saving their life, they oughtta take FULL RESPONSIBILITY for the consequences.

Freedom is freedom, but why should the fully protected give a whit about those who, by their own choice, are not?

Jim

 

[Paumavista]

Freedom is freedom, but why should the fully protected give a whit about those who, by their own choice, are not?

Jim

I just finished reading an article yesterday... I can't find it....but there were a couple of reasons it matters......1. Medical staff exhaustion...it's hard...suiting up & watching the difficult life/death effects of the disease day after day (the fear of taking it home to family/children); the resources being used. 2. There are many who can not be vaccinated (i.e. many transplant patients; those on certain medications, children & if we are discussing the world (and traveling) many countries simply do NOT have access to vaccines 3. The virus will continue to spread and mutate & as the virus mutates some vaccines (perhaps those that aren't as effective to begin with) will become even less effective; causing more severe reactions and continued mutations (we could be living with this for a LONG time).

 

[davidvel]

Yesterday, I had my semi-annual (non-Covid) checkup with my pulmonologist. Nice guy, and the ONLY lung doc in the local practice. So he's the go-to for Covid cases here. He told me that he has 50-some patients currently, up from single numbers in May/June. He read down the ages of his current patients, and with few exceptions, they were between 35 and 60. Quite young, don'tcha think? Of these, NONE. ZERO. ZILCH were vaccinated. He's only admitted 3 vaccinated patients, all of which recovered and were released.

Asked about masking, he said that those of us who mask are simply doing it to protect the unvaccinated. And it might be somewhat callous, but if he had his way, when someone expressed that for whatever reason they give for not getting vaxxed, he'd have them sign a document refusing treatment should they present with Covid positivity. If they refuse something that has a near 100% record of saving their life, they oughtta take FULL RESPONSIBILITY for the consequences.

Freedom is freedom, but why should the fully protected give a whit about those who, by their own choice, are not?

Jim

Wow, I guess he skipped the Hippocratic oath and medical ethics classes. I'm for the responsibility for bills, etc., but don't want my doctor to think this way. I guess he'll let religious objectors die as well. Sounds like a very callous physician.

 

[Passepartout]

Wow, I guess he skipped the Hippocratic oath and medical ethics classes. I'm for the responsibility for bills, etc., but don't want my doctor to think this way. I guess he'll let religious objectors die as well. Sounds like a very callous physician.

I don't think he skipped anything. He treats those who become ill even though they had access to prevention, same as you and me. Feel free to guess about others' motives. I assure you, he cares more deeply for his patients than indicated by their actions, they care for themselves.

 

[Luanne]

I don't think he skipped anything. He treats those who become ill even though they had access to prevention, same as you and me. Feel free to guess about others' motives. I assure you, he cares more deeply for his patients than indicated by their actions, they care for themselves.

People should really read what is posted and not just jump to conclusions. You never said you doc doesn't treat people.

 

[davidvel]

I don't think he skipped anything. He treats those who become ill even though they had access to prevention, same as you and me. Feel free to guess about others' motives. I assure you, he cares more deeply for his patients than indicated by their actions, they care for themselves.

Well that's good he does what he is obligated to do. I was referring to what you said he wished he could do: make his non-vaccinated patients refuse/waive treatment if they acquire COVID. (And presumably many of these that need treatment would die.)

"If he had his way, when someone expressed that for whatever reason they give for not getting vaxxed, he'd have them sign a document refusing treatment should they present with Covid positivity. "

 

[Passepartout]

"If he had his way, when someone expressed that for whatever reason they give for not getting vaxxed, he'd have them sign a document refusing treatment should they present with Covid positivity. "

Nice editing. I was paraphrasing a conversation that no one else was party to. Here's the full sentence. And the words were mine. Haven't we all been in situations where we would like to tell people how we REALLY feel. "Asked about masking, he said that those of us who mask are simply doing it to protect the unvaccinated. And it might be somewhat callous, but if he had his way, when someone expressed that for whatever reason they give for not getting vaxxed, he'd have them sign a document refusing treatment should they present with Covid positivity."

 

[SueDonJ]

Yesterday, I had my semi-annual (non-Covid) checkup with my pulmonologist. Nice guy, and the ONLY lung doc in the local practice. So he's the go-to for Covid cases here. He told me that he has 50-some patients currently, up from single numbers in May/June. He read down the ages of his current patients, and with few exceptions, they were between 35 and 60. Quite young, don'tcha think? Of these, NONE. ZERO. ZILCH were vaccinated. He's only admitted 3 vaccinated patients, all of which recovered and were released.

Asked about masking, he said that those of us who mask are simply doing it to protect the unvaccinated. And it might be somewhat callous, but if he had his way, when someone expressed that for whatever reason they give for not getting vaxxed, he'd have them sign a document refusing treatment should they present with Covid positivity. If they refuse something that has a near 100% record of saving their life, they oughtta take FULL RESPONSIBILITY for the consequences.

Freedom is freedom, but why should the fully protected give a whit about those who, by their own choice, are not?

Jim

One of the saddest remnants of COVID-19, I'm convinced, is going to be the loss of empathy among our healthcare workers. Burnout has always been a factor, substance abuse has always been a factor, basic mental health has always been a factor. But no other public health issue has ever had the cumulative effect of so many healthcare workers feeling like they are banging their heads against the wall for far too many people who don't appreciate the risks they face every damned day.

We're all going to pay for the completely inappropriate, misdirected reaction and response to COVID-19 in this country. All of us will pay. For a long, long, long time.

 

[davidvel]

Nice editing. I was paraphrasing a conversation that no one else was party to. Here's the full sentence. And the words were mine. Haven't we all been in situations where we would like to tell people how we REALLY feel. "Asked about masking, he said that those of us who mask are simply doing it to protect the unvaccinated. And it might be somewhat callous, but if he had his way, when someone expressed that for whatever reason they give for not getting vaxxed, he'd have them sign a document refusing treatment should they present with Covid positivity."

I don't understand the distinction. You were telling us what he said, not your words.

Unless you are saying that the statement "And it might be somewhat callous, but if he had his way, when someone expressed that for whatever reason they give for not getting vaxxed, he'd have them sign a document refusing treatment should they present with Covid positivity" was just your opinion about what you thought he thought. In which case you unfairly attributed this to him.

I've certainly never heard a doctor talk this way about patients, especially to another patient, but you're the one that said "if he had his way," which I presumed meant he expressed this view, not that you made it up.

 

[echino]

Personal freedoms above collective good.