I have been using friend's Diamond membership, with Hilton's merger, what should we do?

[Mr U]

I have a friend that has a DRI membership she no longer wants to pay for ( or use, so I have been paying for/using for a few years). With the Hilton merger, what should we do with the membership? she wants nothing to do with it, I don't mind using it, but have to use it as a guest, so should I take it over (not all properties allow 'guests')?, if so, what is the most cost effective way to do so (sorry, I tried looking for this info, but did not find after looking through search)

 

[Ty1on]

Can you get your name added to the account? If she transfers to you, it becomes resale and loses benefits.

 

[Mr U]

Can you get your name added to the account? If she transfers to you, it becomes resale and loses benefits.

Thank you for the reply, I have acct access for booking, paying, etc, but not on deed (she has a deeded week in sedona I believe), what benefits would be lost, the diamond Club, it is a rather small number of points, but it works for local weekend getaways and ocassional domestic travel (under 1000 points)

 

[bnoble]

With the Hilton merger, what should we do with the membership?

So far, the acquisition hasn't changed anything. So, there's nothing new to do just yet.

 

[Mr U]

So far, the acquisition hasn't changed anything. So, there's nothing new to do just yet.

Thank you for your comment, I was hoping there were some news that TUG users had to help address the issue, I want to say I see more availability in Hawaii for instance, but it is for only primary users (which I currently am not), so no guests and/or associate members (which is what I think i am).

Will the DRI membership morph into some sort of HGVC membership?

 

[Ty1on]

Will the DRI membership morph into some sort of HGVC membership?

Not likely. The most you could hope for is an internal exchange where you pay extra money to exchange into an HGVC resort.

 

[bnoble]

Will the DRI membership morph into some sort of HGVC membership?

My bet: Not without a new purchase of some sort.

 

[alexadeparis]

You should pay to get your self added onto the deed with your friend and then become a joint owner, and pay DRI to have it officially transferred. Call before you do this to make sure they will allow your friend to add you to get full benefits. Then you should be treated just as they would be. As for what HGVC will do for DRI accounts that is a different story. No one knows.

 

[Arusso]

From what you state, you are using your friend's ownership benefits as a guest. As a guest you are limited in receiving benefits but you have zero responsibility. IMO, before you contemplate anything that incurs expense ask yourself some questions and do the research. For example. use this forum and others like Red Weeks and other TS owner forums that rent TS to compile a list of rental costs incurred at the locations where you are already familiar with. Compare the rentals to what it would cost you to modify the existing deed(s) and pay continuing maintenance fees (MFs).

If your friend wants no part in retaining ownership you could purchase for as little as one dollar. Your friend would then have no further responsibility. On the other hand, you could become a co-owner in which case either of you individually would be responsible for paying MFs for as long as the ownership lasts. This could be in perpetuity or might be time-limited. The current ownership documents spell this out. Regardless, you will need to engage a real-estate attorney, familiar with the contracts unique to TS properties. Not all real estate attorneys are.

What are the MFs? Historically, they go up about 5% annually. In 2022 with the acquisition of Diamond by Hilton, the MFs will be 9% higher. Also, Diamond has a history of higher MF compared to some other TS companies. Finally, if the property is at greater risk than average of incurring damage due to acts of nature, is old and in need of repair, remodeling, updating, etc, owners could be subject to assessments. Assessments are over and above MFs.

Next, check out a couple of vacation clubs and compare costs for the places you are familiar with - Are the costs Less? Equal? More?

Essentially, you are interested in getting the best benefit for the least cost - as well as the least responsibility.

Years ago, before the internet and vacation clubs and discounted travel and lodging promotions, the options available to vacationers with / without families to rent apartments (not hotel rooms) was rentals from owners. This is no longer the case.

Finally, I just attended an "owners" update at a Diamond property. many of the details critically important for owners regarding the aforementioned merger are not know yet. That said, I was told that in 2022, a Vacation Club will be launched. Second, the current tiered ownership (standard, Silver, Gold, etc) currently in the Diamond system will be replaced simply by ownership benefits commensurate with points in possession allocated. Fixed week owners are not affected by this. Points will be good for 5 years once allocated. Points can be used to pay for a variety of fees at the value of $0.30 per point and the type of benefit and accumulation of such is tied to the number of points. Points allocated as a result of a purchase contract have an associated MF. For example: I was shown a proposal to purchase 6,000 points at a cost of $10.00 per point with an annual MF of $1,500.00. Imagine that ! $60,000.00. Of course, This is a proposal. Much like a MSRP, the cost os negotiated, but even at a 50% reduction, this is a sizeable cost. Keep in mind, every "owner update" is associated with a pitch to purchase more points to "get you to get more benefits."

I realize this is a lot of information and I apologize. However, you will find that this forum is full of dedicated and knowledgable people willinf to help one another in getting the most out of the TS industry.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

In addition to what has been written above -

Two key issues:

1. Does your friend own a deed or an interest in one of the DRI collections?
2. Is your friend's account of the DRI Club, and if so do you want to keep it?

I'll start with the second issue. Generally, DRI will allow Club membership to transfer to a new owner only if the ownership is being given to a family member. Otherwise, transfer of ownership terminates Club membership, and usage rights revert to those in the ownership. So if you want to keep Club membership, you will need to find a way through that. A possible avenue might be to have your name added to the deed, and then get that change updated in the Club Records. Then at some later date, take over full ownership. At that point, you might want to have your friend's name taken off of the DRI Club account.

If your friend's ownership does not include the Club, then you should simply take over the ownership from your friend, and pay whatever the processing fee is at DRI for transferring an ownership.

As to the first issue. I suggest that you at least consult with an Arizona attorney (assuming the ownership is at Sedona) to be sure the process of first adding your name to the deed or trust interest is done correctly, and then later to be sure that your friend's name is removed correctly.

 

[goaliedave]

Hilton CEO said on quarterly investor call that they will be keeping Diamond completely separate from HGVC as the resorts are (agreed) lower quality and price. They will soon rebrand Diamond as HVC - no "Grand" on the name. (Note the Embarc brand that Diamond bought from Intrawest will be rebranded as HGVC but Diamond members had no access to them anyways).

Nothing will change for members, expect sales staff will now first try to upsell to HGVC. They did fire the CEO Mike Flaskey and he now has a private company (MF Entertainment) doing the entertainment part that he is famous for, for Diamond and now other clients.

Diamond only does free transfers to family members ... maybe a quick marriage of convenience?

 

[pedro47]

Does Diamond asked the old owner is this a family member on a deed transfer?

 

[Arusso]

Does Diamond asked the old owner is this a family member on a deed transfer?

Hilton CEO said on quarterly investor call that they will be keeping Diamond completely separate from HGVC as the resorts are (agreed) lower quality and price. They will soon rebrand Diamond as HVC - no "Grand" on the name. (Note the Embarc brand that Diamond bought from Intrawest will be rebranded as HGVC but Diamond members had no access to them anyways).

Nothing will change for members, expect sales staff will now first try to upsell to HGVC. They did fire the CEO Mike Flaskey and he now has a private company (MF Entertainment) doing the entertainment part that he is famous for, for Diamond and now other clients.

Diamond only does free transfers to family members ... maybe a quick marriage of convenience?

Thanks for the info. Apollo was a caretaker owner - this was known in 2016 when Cloobeck and Co sold.

At my recent "membership review" the salesman was quick to point out and confirm that no decisions have been made with regard to ownership transfers or exchanges between and among the three entities (DRI, HGVC, Embarc). He did not try to sell HGVC even though the resort a couple of hundred meters from where I was physically located was a Hilton property. He did say that the points allocated for DRI properties in the future may be 1/2 the current amount allocated. In addition, Hilton will likely reallocate some of the best DRI properties to the HGVC inventory and may repurpose, dispose, sell, etc some other lesser performing properties. As anticipated, the pitch was to get me to purchase more DRI points.......the not so subtle message is that they will be needed to stay in the game.......Whether this is true or not, time will tell. I suspect it or some other similar scheme is likely because the modus operandi of the industry has consistently been to get current points owners to buy more as the purchasing power of points devalues over time. The plan is also to establish a Travel Club so, if Hilton assesses the DRI properties as was mentioned, cross-ownership exchanges can occur without the need to create an new exchange system. It will simply be a matter of applying the appropriate number of points at whatever the exchange rate will be. Alternatively, an entirely new exchange system could be created. The bottom line is that membership will always cost more, not less to stay in the game. No thoughts as to what will happen with Hilton management of the HOAs as the fees continue to escalate. This year the MFs are 9% higher in my inventory.

 

[goaliedave]

I don't think any of that salesperson's info is accurate, as usual.

 

[Arusso]

I don't think any of that salesperson's info is accurate, as usual.

Of course. As is well known, one of the main sales tactics used by sales persons is to get points owners to believe that their current inventory is inadequate and they need to purchase more points to continue to reap benefits. The salesman was cautious in his statements to me by acknowledging DRI salespeople were fired because they represented policy that was not officially sanctioned by Hilton. We'll just have to wait to see what is announced early in 2022. As I consider the various scenarios possible, I suspect some sort of policy that reassigns some DRI resorts to the current HGVC inventory and discounts / reassigns the point evaluation of other resorts while lastly, disposing of some other under-performing properties. Whether of not this might involve an entirely new exchange system is conjecture. it would not be necessary if a common point currency is adopted. I was sent a survey by corporate regarding the presentation.

 

[dayooper]

I don't think any of that salesperson's info is accurate, as usual.

What are your thoughts how the merger will play out?

 

[dayooper]

As is well known, one of the main sales tactics used by sales persons is to get points owners to believe that their current inventory is inadequate and they need to purchase more points to continue to reap benefits. The salesman was cautious in his statements to me by acknowledging DRI salespeople were fired because they represented policy that was not officially sanctioned by Hilton.

If this is true, then I give credit to HGV. Again, it could be the salesman was trying to gain your trust by saying he was one of the trustworthy ones. Lips moving.

We'll just have to wait to see what is announced early in 2022. As I consider the various scenarios possible, I suspect some sort of policy that reassigns some DRI resorts to the current HGVC inventory and discounts / reassigns the point evaluation of other resorts while lastly, disposing of some other under-performing properties. Whether of not this might involve an entirely new exchange system is conjecture. it would not be necessary if a common point currency is adopted. I was sent a survey by corporate regarding the presentation.

I just don't see this happening, in most cases. The only resorts (not including the Embarc properties) I think this may be probable is Cabo Azul and The Modern. Cabo Azul is in it's own collection and The Modern isn't in any collection. Those 2 are easy. They are in high demand locations. Others? Not so much. If they wanted to play that game, I can see Maui, Kauai, Tahoe and Sedona as potential upgrade, but I think it would be too difficult to remove them from the trusts they are in. Maybe some of the European resorts as I'm not sure how the trusts work with the international locations.

If you are going to move up weeks from resorts from DRI to HGVC, could there be a reverse? Could some weeks from the lower level HGVC resorts in places where DRI isn't strong be put in the DRI/HVC trust? Resorts like Paradise in Vegas, Anderson in Myrtle Beach (have to deal with Strand Capitol) and Kohala on the Big Island could really add to DRI. Not the entire resort, but maybe turn those places into hybrid locations? Part HGVC and part HVC? I know they have a fair amount of weeks for sale in those locations. I would include The Flamingo, but they aren't actively selling that property. Without ROFR, it's hard to accumulate enough weeks to make a difference there.

As far as underperforming resorts, how would that work? My guess is that some of the Orlando resorts would be prime targets to remove, but I just don't see it. Taking weeks out of the trust just doesn't seem to fit. I know they have a backlog of DRI owned weeks in the trust, but would that work? It just seems that the new membership they are creating would satisfy they need for exchanging weeks between the 2 divisions. I know you can sell Maui, Kauai and Tahoe for a fortune, but it just seems like that would reduce the need for people to purchase the new membership Mark Wang has talked about.

@goaliedave @Arusso @youppi @nuwermj or anybody else in the know. I though I heard that DRI was constructing another building at Cabo Azul. Is this correct? Is it still happening?

 

[Arusso]

What are your thoughts how the merger will play out?

Disclaimer: I have no special insight into the innerworkings of the TS industry except to have observed that the developer will surely find creative ways to increase the price to current owners to participate. There are many Tuggers that are far more knowledgeable with regard to industry operations. That said, and s you have noted, there is a quality gap between the two companies that merged. With the exception of a couple of resorts in the DRI inventory that are on par with Hilton resorts, the rest are not.

Common sense dictates that Hilton just needs to score the entire DRI inventory and assign a point value that could be used to exchange across all merged inventory. But then again, this may run counter-current to sales strategies. Would it make sense to have a two tiered Hilton TS model? maybe, maybe not. They could keep the inventory segregated and allow exchanges through a internal exchange mechanism that they would call a "Vacation Club." This keeps the current HGVC owners from feeling that their ownership was devalued.

As I mentioned in a prior post, of equal concern is the effect that Hilton ownership will have on the HOAs. Currently, DRI dominant HOA Boards have been a cash cow for DRI extracted increasing management fees year after year. My MFs for 2022 have increased by 9% with one of the largest increases due to the DRI management fees.

 

[pedro47]

Disclaimer: I have no special insight into the innerworkings of the TS industry except to have observed that the developer will surely find creative ways to increase the price to current owners to participate. There are many Tuggers that are far more knowledgeable with regard to industry operations. That said, and s you have noted, there is a quality gap between the two companies that merged. With the exception of a couple of resorts in the DRI inventory that are on par with Hilton resorts, the rest are not.

Common sense dictates that Hilton just needs to score the entire DRI inventory and assign a point value that could be used to exchange across all merged inventory. But then again, this may run counter-current to sales strategies. Would it make sense to have a two tiered Hilton TS model? maybe, maybe not. They could keep the inventory segregated and allow exchanges through a internal exchange mechanism that they would call a "Vacation Club." This keeps the current HGVC owners from feeling that their ownership was devalued.

As I mentioned in a prior post, of equal concern is the effect that Hilton ownership will have on the HOAs. Currently, DRI dominant HOA Boards have been a cash cow for DRI extracted increasing management fees year after year. My MFs for 2022 have increased by 9% with one of the largest increases due to the DRI management fees.

Have you been billed for The Club 2022 fees?
I do understand DRI have sent out 2022 MF Fees to DRI Owners.

 

[dayooper]

Common sense dictates that Hilton just needs to score the entire DRI inventory and assign a point value that could be used to exchange across all merged inventory. But then again, this may run counter-current to sales strategies. Would it make sense to have a two tiered Hilton TS model? maybe, maybe not. They could keep the inventory segregated and allow exchanges through a internal exchange mechanism that they would call a "Vacation Club." This keeps the current HGVC owners from feeling that their ownership was devalued.

I believe this is the way this is going to go. Mark Wang has said several times that DRI will remain a separate entity, but be rebranded Hilton Vacation Club (HVC). That was announced back in the spring. He has stated in the last 2 investor calls (2nd Quarter on July 30 and 3rd Quarter on Nov 9) that there will be a "new membership" that will link the 2 different divisions. HVC will be a lower cost option and remain a trust product while HGVC will remain a deeded product with higher quality (more expensive). The average price difference being around $20000 per week. Not sure if this is what you are talking about.

As I mentioned in a prior post, of equal concern is the effect that Hilton ownership will have on the HOAs. Currently, DRI dominant HOA Boards have been a cash cow for DRI extracted increasing management fees year after year. My MFs for 2022 have increased by 9% with one of the largest increases due to the DRI management fees.

This bothers me. A lot. Hopefully this is a one off increase. One thing HGVC has been very good at was keeping MF's down. My MF's increase was ~5% this year and that was after there was no increase the previous year. My hope was that they would keep DRI's MF's down as well.

 

[Arusso]

I believe this is the way this is going to go. Mark Wang has said several times that DRI will remain a separate entity, but be rebranded Hilton Vacation Club (HVC). That was announced back in the spring. He has stated in the last 2 investor calls (2nd Quarter on July 30 and 3rd Quarter on Nov 9) that there will be a "new membership" that will link the 2 different divisions. HVC will be a lower cost option and remain a trust product while HGVC will remain a deeded product with higher quality (more expensive). The average price difference being around $20000 per week. Not sure if this is what you are talking about.



This bothers me. A lot. Hopefully this is a one off increase. One thing HGVC has been very good at was keeping MF's down. My MF's increase was ~5% this year and that was after there was no increase the previous year. My hope was that they would keep DRI's MF's down as well.

Yes, Wang did say that. I'm sure the deeded DRI folks that do now have a points conversion contract will be unaffected.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Perhaps they should add the Point at Poipu into their HGVC collection because I think that is one of the nicest on the island. I would place it second to Wyndham Shearwater. Every unit we have had has been wonderful. Ka'anapali Beach Club, not on par with Hilton. I think the hallway noise is a big problem.

 

[Arusso]

Have you been billed for The Club 2022 fees?
I do understand DRI have sent out 2022 MF Fees to DRI Owners.

Yes, both of my contracts have been posted

 

[pedro47]

Yes, both of my contracts have been posted

How much was The Club dues for 2022 ?

 

[Arusso]

How much was The Club dues for 2022 ?

Have not rec'd Club dues statement for 2022. Not yet posted in My Account. The 2021 Club dues were $530.00. However, the MFs are 9% higher. The HOA budgets show an increase of 6% and 6.7% respectively for my two DRI holdings. The explanation given is that the increase is due to labor costs secondary to COVID. On examination, there was also the usual increase in management fees - no surprise.