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I found an LLC with 42 RCI Saratoga Springs listings

rickandcindy23

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So echino just listed another reason why people hate timeshares and want to dump them. If you own real estate (deeded), and you cannot use that timeshare (real estate), then you should be able to rent your timeshare. If not, how are you going to recover your MF's. You would just lose MF's. I have seen such language in timeshare contracts, and no one is enforcing it.

Think of the outrage you would see on TUG, if owners couldn't rent what they cannot use next year. And we love timeshare and dislike exit companies. So it's true that the language is there. It was even reinforced with my resale Shell points, which I got for free with free use. I got a separate letter telling me I could not rent my ownership.

I still have to say that developers get new blood (victims) all of the time from my renters, but I warn them that I got my points free and could tell them how to do what I did. NOT ONE person has taken me up on it. I have rented to at least 50 people over the last 8-10 years. Most are repeat customers.
 

Dean

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Yes, they talk about commercial activities at the resort, but they also talk about rentals. The resort may at any moment say that a "pattern of rental activity" constitutes use for commercial purposes and not "personal use" if an owner rents out a week for profit more than once, or just at any time at resort's discretion.

While it's vague what may be considered using for "commercial purpose", and they say it's at their discretion, at the same time they are very clear that any use other than personal use, is expressly prohibited. Renting for profit is not personal use.

Of course in practice they allow renting. But the rules say no. They can crack down at any moment. I don't see any difference between renting an owner's deeded week for profit and renting an II or RCI exchange, from the "rules" point of view. The only difference is how it works in real life and whether it's enforced.
The difference is simply that renting is expressly allowed for owners with the commercial limitations. Personal use definition includes renting. So no they couldn't just say arbitrarily that renting isn't allowed. The problem is that since renting is expressly allowed, if they limit too stringently and are challenged legally, they'd lose. For RCI or II exchanges, renting is expressly prohibited even though RCI (not II) does give some flexibility to recoup direct costs. So legal, honest and ethical to rent DVC that you own, not for an exchange.
 

echino

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Oh yes they can, at any time, restrict renting. The language allowing they to do so is already there. It says it's at their discretion.

When you buy a full time condo to live in, it's your property, but many condos restrict renting. Same with timeshares.
 

DannyTS

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The difference is simply that renting is expressly allowed for owners with the commercial limitations. Personal use definition includes renting. So no they couldn't just say arbitrarily that renting isn't allowed. The problem is that since renting is expressly allowed, if they limit too stringently and are challenged legally, they'd lose. For RCI or II exchanges, renting is expressly prohibited even though RCI (not II) does give some flexibility to recoup direct costs. So legal, honest and ethical to rent DVC that you own, not for an exchange.
The developers want to have it both ways: to say it is allowed because it helps their "real estate" and "investment" narrative but they also do not want competition from larger players that can buy tens and hundreds of units at their resorts and undercut their rental margins.
I do not think anyone that rents occasionally or even regularly few units a year has anything to fear since the rentals are specifically permitted by the rules. Their language like "pattern of rental activity" is so vague that it is completely unenforceable in the case of a regular owner.
 
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Dean

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The developers want to have it both ways: to say it is allowed because it helps their "real estate" and "investment" narrative but they also do not want competition from larger players that can buy tens and hundreds of units at their resorts and undercut their rental margins.
I do not think anyone that rents occasionally or even regularly few units a year has anything to fear since the rentals are specifically permitted by the rules. Their language like "pattern of rental activity" is so vague that it is completely unenforceable in the case of a regular owner.
Exactly though it's not uncommon for condo's or HOA's to limit renting as well.
 

Dean

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Oh yes they can, at any time, restrict renting. The language allowing they to do so is already there. It says it's at their discretion.

When you buy a full time condo to live in, it's your property, but many condos restrict renting. Same with timeshares.
Restrict within reason but not eliminate.
 

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So I figured out why even SSR has been harder to find on RCI. This LLC manages people's Wyndham accounts, books SSR and sells them on Ebay. VacationstrategyLLC. I filed a complaint with the BBB and looked at their feedback history. They have positive feedback from 42 SSR listings on their feedback page. I complained to both RCI and Ebay, so hopefully the availability should be a little better for owners. What's really messed up is that the owners that are using this LLC are probably unaware this company is using their account to violate RCI's terms of service. The owner will have their RCI account revoked while the LLC has no repercussion.


View attachment 14233

Here is the verbage in their listing that made me realize it was RCI.
View attachment 14234

View attachment 14235


https://www.vacationstrategy.com/
Help me to understand. Everyone here speaks in a code that I don't understand. SSR, DVC, I know what an LLC is and I know who RCI is. Where can I go to learn about what is being talked about here? I really need some help to understand. Thank You Rick Krieger
 

DeniseM

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SSR and DVC are the abbreviations for popular resorts. Some forums have definitions in their stickies, but for the most part, you learn them through usage. However, you don't really need to learn them all, unless you are interested in all resorts - I don't know them all.
 

montygz

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Help me to understand. Everyone here speaks in a code that I don't understand. SSR, DVC, I know what an LLC is and I know who RCI is. Where can I go to learn about what is being talked about here? I really need some help to understand. Thank You Rick Krieger
SSR = Saratoga Springs resort at Disneyworld
DVC = Disney Vacation Club, the Disney timeshare system

DVC is part of the RCI network, so you can exchange into some of their units when they show up on RCI. 99% of units Disney puts into RCI are 1BR Saratoga Springs units, and they charge a $190 resort fee at check-in, so exchanges are easy to spot when listed on ebay.
 

DannyTS

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only 3 listing left on Ebay. I am wondering if RCI is actually starting to crack down on this ads, I doubt they were able to rent the rest so fast.
 

DannyTS

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this company is still getting the best RCI exchanges, they must have a connection there, how could they possibly be the only ones that advertise Aulani exchanges?
1580616158758.png
 

DannyTS

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and another one week 51!
1580616287870.png
 

CPNY

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This reminds me of red timeshares on redweek listing around. 20 summer weeks with harborside on one day. Makes me think that HRA and in this case RCI is probably taking the DVC inventory and passing it off to this LLC to rent the units for them. It’s a lot more beneficial to rent the units themselves and make 1000 per week than the couple of hundred buck exchange fee.
 

paxsarah

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this company is still getting the best RCI exchanges, they must have a connection there, how could they possibly be the only ones that advertise Aulani exchanges?
Is there a reason you think this is an exchange rather than booked with points? I’ve never heard of DVC exchanges in RCI at 11 months out, not even with Welk.
 

DannyTS

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Is there a reason you think this is an exchange rather than booked with points? I’ve never heard of DVC exchanges in RCI at 11 months out, not even with Welk.
this is in the ad:
"I will need ONE full guest name (as it appears on a government issued photo ID) to put on the reservation immediately or soon after the purchase is made. That will be the main name on the reservation. Eventually, we will also need the names of other family members occupying the Villa as Disney requires that to be listed on the reservation 48 hours prior to check-in. Once the ONE name has been assigned to the reservation, any changes thereafter, will require a change fee of $100. Guests are only able to call the resort and or DVC and verify their name on reservations, 7-10 days prior to the check in date. Rest assured, we have this particular reservation held in the Owner's name till it's time to assign the guest name to it. The guest must be over 21 years of age to check in at this Resort. The Resort requires a credit card to place a hold for incidentals. There is a mandatory non-refundable $200 Resort fee that will be charged by the Resort 4-6 weeks prior to the check-in date. Certain activities offered at the resort are available at an additional cost. "

1580653391962.png
 

paxsarah

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It seems just as likely to me that they copy/pasted their boilerplate language from their other DVC rentals (which certainly were exchanges, based on the undercutting prices) even if this one was not an exchange. I just don’t see how DVC deposits a 2BR Aulani 11 months in advance for Christmas. I’m not up on DVC rentals, but the price listed here seems more in line with a points rental than the bargain basement prices they list the exchanges for.
 

DannyTS

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It seems just as likely to me that they copy/pasted their boilerplate language from their other DVC rentals (which certainly were exchanges, based on the undercutting prices) even if this one was not an exchange. I just don’t see how DVC deposits a 2BR Aulani 11 months in advance for Christmas. I’m not up on DVC rentals, but the price listed here seems more in line with a points rental than the bargain basement prices they list the exchanges for.
I thought about that but not a likely scenario precisely given this is a 8000 dollars listing so they must have paid attention to all the details.
Concerning RCI deposits, I have seen other astonishing surprises in both II and RCI so I would not judge based on that solely
 

CPNY

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I thought about that but not a likely scenario precisely given this is a 8000 dollars listing so they must have paid attention to all the details.
Concerning RCI deposits, I have seen other astonishing surprises in both II and RCI so I would not judge based on that solely
Sounds like RCI is behind this and are making money on the rentals rather than a small exchange fee paid by owners.
 

Dean

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Sounds like RCI is behind this and are making money on the rentals rather than a small exchange fee paid by owners.
Doubtful but RCI does have rental options that DVC has agreed to.
 

CPNY

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Doubtful but RCI does have rental options that DVC has agreed to.
So you can rent from RCI instead of using exchange? That’s great but that’s just for RCI owners. eBay opens it up to people outside of the RCI System. Someone on the inside is filtering the weeks out for rentals. I’ve seen it with harborside at Atlantis. One agent posting 40 in demand weeks that owners of the resort can’t even get at 8 months out. It seems suspect to me
 

rickandcindy23

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I want a week at Aulani through exchange, but I never get those, even though we are Club Wyndham. I should enter an ongoing search for Aulani. My kids and grandkids would love to stay there sometime. If I could get a 2 bedroom, that would be very worthy of the airfare. Then I could add Marriott to the trip. Such luck! I am totally jealous of this person.

This Vacation Strategy is apparently working.
 

Dean

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So you can rent from RCI instead of using exchange? That’s great but that’s just for RCI owners. eBay opens it up to people outside of the RCI System. Someone on the inside is filtering the weeks out for rentals. I’ve seen it with harborside at Atlantis. One agent posting 40 in demand weeks that owners of the resort can’t even get at 8 months out. It seems suspect to me
We're talking about the options and none of us have an idea whether it applies in this case. I personal doubt this is the case here. But RCI can rent weeks they get in some cases, rumor is that's a large part of the reason that DVC moved from II to RCI, so DVD/DVCMC could dispose of some of their yearly inventory. None of us are privy to the contract itself as RCI and DVD consider that proprietary information. So can RCI rent, absolutely, I don't know if they do so outside of RCI membership but I've been told in the past that they do but again, I truly don't know that info. As for whether DVC members can get those reservations, that's irrelevant as RCI could only get time that DVD, DVCMC or DVC members have put with them either as a week or by points. They could potentially use the home resort of the points and get time back to 11 months out and in the past they have done so. Now whether RCI is renting weeks they shouldn't, weeks that should go to the RCI membership (but not DVC members) is a question and in the past, some have been convinced they have done so.
 

littlestar

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I think that Aulani rental might be a DVC member renting out their Aulani points. That language about the fee is probably just copied from something old. Maybe this company pays DVC members for high value 11 month reservations.
 

ilenekm

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this is in the ad:
"....The Resort requires a credit card to place a hold for incidentals. There is a mandatory non-refundable $200 Resort fee that will be charged by the Resort 4-6 weeks prior to the check-in date. Certain activities offered at the resort are available at an additional cost. "

View attachment 16989
I have used RCI with my Wyndham points to get DVC. The "resort fee" which I believe was $195 last time is charged by Disney when you are there. This is in addition to the RCI exchange fee you pay when you get the reservation.

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